7540 replies to this topic

[tropicalgeko]

If we could only get him to remove the KK as LL poster from his bedroom ceiling.

That truly frightens me as well. As much as I love this show, if they turn princesspink into LL, I would be forced to stop watching. I'd love it if they would slide AM into the roll, but even a new actress would be better than using KK.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Sep 18, 2007 @ 6:42 PM.

[TVjunky]

Oh Man... Poor Chloe. She's probably never going to forgive herself whne it comes to Gabe losing his job. She's probably never going to forgive Lex either. That makes me sad. I have a soft spot for the Chlex, mainly because MR and AM are so great together.

Now, my new dream scenario would be for Chloe to go to Lex and say: "Lex, you don't remember, but I have some serious dirt on your father... You want it? Then give my Dad his fucking job back!!!"

[stoutheartedmin]

Works for me.

[camelback]

Chloe as Lois Lane? The Lois Lane? Please no. *shudder*

Normally don't post on this thread, but damn, was Chloe hit with the stupid stick tonight? She goes over to Lionel's office, threatens him, and then is all shocked when he delivers on his threats and she looses her job at the Daily Planet? Has she never met him before?

And she's all indignant when Clark didn't immediately forgive her for giving info to Lionel about him? Give the boy a day or so will ya?

I don't know what it was, but this episode, Chloe was just laughable.

[Ann Tara]

Chloe was just about the only thing that saved this episode for me - she and Lionel, who are sex on a stick when they're together, and that's so wrong but it feels so right. It's a blessing when two strong actors get to have a scene together that's watchable in a mostly unwatchable episode.

Chloe detractors will call her stupid, for sure. Hell, but I thought she was gutsy. WTF did it matter at that point? Lionel had already fired her, and had already put in motion to have Gabe fired. So what was she supposed to do, snivel badly, and laughably, like the BLAHna at the end of this painful episode? That would have netted her nothing and changed nothing. I'm ridiculously grateful she doesn't pull the usual Blahna crap.

Besides, had Clark not been the one to tell Lex what he heard Chloe saying, none of that would have been set into play. Come on, Clark had to know Lex would run to Lionel with the info Clark heard, and Lionel would immediately figure he got the info straight from Chloe. So Clark was pretty dumb too.

Gee, what is the Pink Freeloader going to do now if Gabe and Chloe have no money and lose their house? Will she have to think about someone other than herself for two seconds? Nah, won't happen.

Edited by Ann Tara, Jan 22, 2004 @ 10:16 AM.

[TVjunky]

Word to your entire post, Ann Tara.

I don't think Chloe acted stupidly. She'd obviously made up her mind a long time ago that she wouldn't investigate Clark, despite Lionel's threats. She even tried to resign from her column at the Daily Planet earlier this season, to get out of her deal with the MB. And now he becomes more menacing and starts accusing her of something she didn't do... She knew she was in trouble, but kept her head high, and didn't grovel, and that was FANTASTIC.

As for her surprise at losing the column and Gabe being fired... I think it was more shock than surprise. Even if you somewhat expect consequences, when they hit you, (especially if they hit you simultaneously like that), you won't be all "Ah well, I had it coming". You'll get emotional, regardless. Plus it was Lex who fired Gabe, not Lionel. Chloe probably wasn't expecting that!

Edited by TVjunky, Jan 22, 2004 @ 10:26 AM.

[Ann Tara]

As for her surprise at losing the column and Gabe being fired... I think it was more shock than surprise. Even if you somewhat expect consequences when they hit you, (especially if they hit you simultaneously like that), you won't be all "Ah well, I had it coming". You'll get emotional, regardless. Plus it was Lex who fired Gabe, not Lionel. Chloe probably wasn't expecting that!

Exactly! Just because you know the ax is going to fall doesn't mean you're not going to flinch when it does.

And, yes, I think the shock comes from Lex being the one to fire Gabe, a man Lex has to know from experience isn't really the bad guy here. But he sacrificed an innocent man anyway. Lex is already on the road to being the Luthor he will become.

[swannlore]

Well, after reading the other post, all that I can add is that I don't know about Clark but after last night's episode I am seriously in love with Chloe for sure. She is a seriously brave young woman and has taken my Lana lust and thrown it out the door.

[pheemayl]

Besides, had Clark not been the one to tell Lex what he heard Chloe saying, none of that would have been set into play.

Yeah,that was real slick of Clark wording things exactly as he heard them, and then not being able to cover his tracks. He really is the superdufus, and totally screwed Chloe. I think at the end of the episode, he really knows how much he flibbled up the situation, when he goes to confront Lex.

And part of me wonders if Lex still remembers about Clarks powers after his electo-therapy, because of his healing powers. I wonder if Lex is now trying anything to get Clark to reveal things to him again, like he did at the end of the last episode. And if he does remember, why does Gabe's job have to come into all this?

Now, my new dream scenario would be for Chloe to go to Lex and say: "Lex, you don't remember, but I have some serious dirt on your father... You want it? Then give my Dad his fucking job back!!!"

That's the only hope that's left. Chloe needs to go smack Lex's (gorgeous) bald head around. If she doesn't make a deal with Lex now, her and Gabe and Lana could be living in a cardboard box outside of the Talon (cause God forbid Lana actually move into the apartment herself). Poor Gabe will be checking the want adds while Lana spray paints the dumpster pink...

[stoutheartedmin]

Chloe was just about the only thing that saved this episode for me - she and Lionel, who are sex on a stick when they're together, and that's so wrong but it feels so right. It's a blessing when two strong actors get to have a scene together that's watchable in a mostly unwatchable episode.

And the people said, "Amen". I thought what Chloe said to Lionel was essentially false bravado, but I admired her pluck. I'd have been really disappointed if she had begged Lionel for anything.

[Cyb]

I know the boards (mostly on Love That Lana or the WB) will be erupting with cries of "Chloe got what she deserved!" Except it'll be spelled more like "Chole got wut she dezrrrved!"

Now, as I admitted in the Whisper thread, I have some meta reasons for not blaming Chloe and being on her side. PTB tried so hard and so blatantly to beat down Chloe in order to make Lana look better in comparison. I felt it was an insult to my intelligence. So naturally I rebel and whatever Chloe the Underdog does, I just cheer her on.

But aside from that, I always felt like she could have probably let the Clana lying and sneaking go (at the end of s2), but then Clark inexplicably shoved her when she confronted him. She didn't know he was planning to destroy Shippy Sue and wanted her to get away for her own safety. So I can easily understand why she decided to side with Lionel. From her perspective, Clark had not only forsaken their friendship, but became nearly violent with her. I feel like it's a bit of revisionist writing now for them to say she did it in a "moment of weakness", as if seeing the Clana kiss were the only reason Chloe signed up for the deal.

Besides which, in Whisper she says she agreed to do it the day after Clark left--but didn't the Chlionel scene in Exodus take place on the same day? And she didn't even investigate him, did she? She just gave Lionel some useless information but she didn't actually investigate him.

[stoutheartedmin]

Now, as I admitted in the Whisper thread, I have some meta reasons for not blaming Chloe and being on her side. PTB tried so hard and so blatantly to beat down Chloe in order to make Lana look better in comparison. I felt it was an insult to my intelligence. So naturally I rebel and whatever Chloe the Underdog does, I just cheer her on.

I suspect the writers are also quietly rebelling against the PTB plan, because Chloe's story is consistently more interesting than Lana's, particularly as she dances with the devil and gets her bangs singed.

[anotherguitarchick]

Well, after reading the other post, all that I can add is that I don't know about Clark but after last night's episode I am seriously in love with Chloe for sure. She is a seriously brave young woman and has taken my Lana lust and thrown it out the door.

Woo! We've got another one!

[Ann Tara]

I have some meta reasons for not blaming Chloe and being on her side. PTB tried so hard and so blatantly to beat down Chloe in order to make Lana look better in comparison. I felt it was an insult to my intelligence. So naturally I rebel and whatever Chloe the Underdog does, I just cheer her on.

Totally Word on that point. And like you, I'm a stubborn cuss when it comes to obvious off screen motivated plot contrivances. You're going to get exactly the opposite reaction from me than you're too clearly going for, as well as a screw you attitude as the cherry atop the cake.

Besides, as the perpetual SV underdog, my heart bleeds for Chloe because she has nobody, no one at all she can turn to with her troubles. She certainly couldn't go to Clark, Pete's useless because he barely exists and that relationship was eliminated last year anyway. Lex has proven to be no savior, the Kents don't care about her - they only care about Lana, that's CANON. And Lana has never shown Chloe a single second of genuine friendship - Chloe and Gabe are simply means to an end for Lana. The usual, useless Clana ending of this very episode only continues to highlight the stark differences between the plights of the two girls, while portraying Lana as the most selfish, self-absorbed little princess I've ever seen on television. You can't tell me that when Lana climbs the stairs to the loft to regurgitate the same-old, same-old Clana scene at the end of this episode that she isn't, at that moment, entirely aware of the serious trouble the Sullivan family is suddenly in. But what is Lana's biggest problem? She has two boys vying for her attention, and that, and that alone, brings her to boo-hoo over herself? How can a viewer take her troubles seriously? Chloe drops the bombshell of her life, and it's just as quickly swept under the rug so we can shoehorn in another self-absorbed moment in Lana's Pink and Boring Melodrama.

Unlike Lana, Chloe is always portrayed as having to bear her own burdens inwardly. She has no one other than her father, whom we never see, to turn to or count on. She makes her mistakes, she takes her smackdowns, she suffers mostly in silence. Lana stubs her toe, and the entire town falls over themselves to throw a pity party.

Chloe's solitude breaks my heart. For that, she will always be the sympathetic one.

Edited by Ann Tara, Jan 22, 2004 @ 1:31 PM.

[swannlore]

Word. I think that right now Clark needs to be there for Chloe now that he knows that this thing with Lana is not going to work. I feel big time for Chloe and I hope that TPTB finally give this character some respect after all of this time.

[TVjunky]

Yes, Chloe has gone through a lot, and yet she keeps suffering quietly. Her mother actually abandoned her, and shows no interest in her, and she has mentioned it once, and once only. Compare that to Her Royal Pink Highness, who whines all the time about people abadoning her when they die!

This is one of the reasons why Chloe is a far better character. For all her pain, she barely ever complains, forgives everyone at one point or another, and still is one spifire of a girl. If TPTB will allow her to grow, I'm sure Chloe Sullivan will become one giant force of nature as an adult. I think she sees her trials as something as obsatcles she NEEds to come out of on top of... What does't kill her makes her stronger. That's a character that I find interesting to watch.

I love that Chloe is flawed, is called on her shit, makes mistakes, pays for them, feels genuinly sorry about them.. yet never throws herself a pity party. Lana in all her so-called pink perfection can never be half as compelling as Chloe because of that.

[queenbee3]

I can easily understand why she decided to side with Lionel. From her perspective, Clark had not only forsaken their friendship, but became nearly violent with her. I feel like it's a bit of revisionist writing now for them to say she did it in a "moment of weakness", as if seeing the Clana kiss were the only reason Chloe signed up for the deal.

Plus, it takes away the ability of the audience to interpret her actions. IMO it was out of character for her to agree to help Lionel just because of a broken heart and wounded pride. Then again, she seemed out of character a lot in season 2, so it was hard to say what was going on with her in the finale, but her characterization has been much truer in season three (thus far *crosses fingers*) so it was much easier to begin to see that Chloe's motives for agreeing to help Lionel were more complex. But that statement about her "moment of weakness" simplified things again and made me slightly dismayed to even hear references to that season 2 frame of mind they had Chloe in.
Don't scare me like that writers!
At this point, I consider Lex and Chloe the most sympathetic characters. Both protecting Clark and both pretty much alone with the burdens they are bearing.
Not that you can compare losing a column in a paper with being forced to have electro-shock therapy by your insane father, but still, you know what I mean. ;)
I don't think there's much she could do at this point to make me feel unsympathetic towards her.
She's just too sad and too cool.
Poor Chloe.

Edited by queenbee3, Jan 22, 2004 @ 4:25 PM.

[Smallcondo]

I love that Chloe is flawed, is called on her shit, makes mistakes, pays for them, feels genuinly sorry about them.. yet never throws herself a pity party

This is exactly why I adore that girl. Does she fuck up royally? Yes. Is she reaping what she's sown? You bet. But unlike others on that show, she will feel the full force of the consequences of her mistakes and she will go forward. She is no coward nor a pityful girl.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, her showdown with Lionel was either very stupid or very brave, but one thing is for certain, she possesses more guts and cojones that most people.

[mobiusklein]

steering fish, that reminds me of what she said in Drone to Clark when he lost the election, that she was really proud of him because part of what makes a great leader was having dignity in the face of defeat (paraphrasing like crazy).

The writers are always trying to retcon things when they know people are perceiving things differently than how they want them to think. They have Lana say crap like Chloe gets attacked more in Extinction like THAT's going to convince anybody. They can retcon all they like but my memory cells work just find, thank you very much.

[Anjelgal]

Big bag of word to the last 2 pages of posts. I'm totally feeling the Chloe-love this season. The girl has gotten herself into a big giant mess but still manages to keep her head up and her spine intact. Love it.

Even though she is in way over her head, Chloe had some serious balls telling Lionel she'd be whatever she wanted to be. Yeah, she's paying the price but with an attitude like hers I won't be the least bit surprised when she comes out on top. And yeah, I do mean when.

I loved the scene where Chloe told Pete and Clark about her dad and the column. Unlike a certain Pink Plague who shall remain nameless, she didn't hang around to whine. She tried to leave twice during the conversation, expressed her relief at Clark's condition even though her life is falling apart and the two weren't on great terms before she finally came out and told them.

She has two boys vying for her attention, and that, and that alone, brings her to boo-hoo over herself? How can a viewer take her troubles seriously? Chloe drops the bombshell of her life, and it's just as quickly swept under the rug so we can shoehorn in another self-absorbed moment in Lana's Pink and Boring Melodrama.

ITA, Ann Tara. My sympathy for Lana is nonexistent. Instead of wallowing in self pity over Clark, she should have been there for her friend. You know, the girl who took her in off the damned street? Ungrateful self-absorbed bitch. How can the writers play up her issue-ridden love life as more important than Chloe's world shattering predicament?

And I know Clark was still pissed off at her, but Pete! Come on man, give the poor girl a hug. God knows she needs one.

[Arista]

I've always loved Chloe, but she seriously screwed herself. From the moment she accepted Lionel's offer she became just another victim. I do, however, admire her gusto. I wouldn't say she laughed in the face of danger but she giggled a bit. Standing up to Lionel despite her inevitable doom was futile yet made me gain more respect for her than ever. Not many other characters would have the balls to do that especially that one specific pink clad character. Hopefully, she will find someone to confide in because she is in desperate need of a friend.

[Cyb]

When Chloe first agreed to research Clark for Lionel, how much did she know about Lionel? She knew he was wealthy of course, and powerful in business, but I don't think she knew he was evil at the time. I hate that we're never shown characters talking about things, because we have no idea if anyone told her about Sheriff Ethan's deal with Lionel, for instance. Did she know that Lionel blackmailed Jonathan Kent into helping him screw over the Rosses?

[Ann Tara]

I agree, most of these characters don't actually talk to each other, oddly enough. They talk at each other, but rarely, if ever, is there any sharing of actual information among these people, even when they're supposed to be friends or family members.

Look, if Chloe is going to be killed off, as is strongly suspected - probably sooner than later because I'm sure the producers are increasingly unhappy with any attention detracted from Lana - then she may as well go out in a blaze of "fuck off" glory.

That's why I don't think her standing up to Lionel - AFTER he'd already fired her - was reckless, but was instead brave. The column was history, as was Gabe. If anyone honestly believes that Lionel would have given Chloe back the column or hadn't already planned to can Gabe, then I'd have to say you haven't been paying attention to the MB at all the last three years. ;)

[Cyb]

There's been some effort in the Whisper thread to compare and contrast Chloe and Clark's behaviors and decisions over the summer, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's Chloe and Jonathan who have the similar situations. They both got in way over their heads with Lionel and were blackmailed into screwing over their friends. There are differences of course: Jonathan didn't know the goal at first, and Chloe did know the goal. However, there's another difference: Jonathan went through with it and Chloe didn't.

You could say, "oh well what choice did Jonathan have? He wanted to adopt Clark!" I probably would have made the same decision as he did, but I wouldn't call it right. And yet, is Jonathan ever shown to suffer the consequences of his decision? He has his family and he's still friends with the Rosses. Chloe didn't go through with her deal even after being threatened with her father's job loss and the axing of her column. She would rather lose her dream than cave. So what's the message here? For being strong, you get punished?

[TVjunky]

So what's the message here? For being strong, you get punished?

Pretty much. Just like for being smart, opinionated and ambitious you'll alienate your friends and will never be "popular". I call bullshit.

Seriously though, that's why I pray with all my heart that Chloe will not bite it this season. That would mean that, in SV, standing up for yourself and what you believe in can only lead to your own demise, while sniveling, groveling and crying to everybody about your problems gets you nothing but universal love and rewards... Especially for female characters. Ugh. And given that young teenage girls are a large portion of the viewers, it makes me sick to my stomach that they might take away from this show a very skewed vision of how the world works. Let's just hope that these girls have parents who know better than to let TV raise their kids.

[Anjelgal]

If Chloe is killed off at any point before the final episode, consider the show boycotted by me. I'll be damned if the only female left for me to watch is Lana and this newer annoying MamaKent.

And you just know that if Chloe was killed off, it would of course be all about Lana and her poor dead sithter who abandoned her just like everybody else. At which point I would of course have to commit extreme acts of violence against the nearest pink or pancake-shaped object. Then fling myself out the window.

[Ann Tara]

Certainly most everything TPTB do with the young female characters sends out a piss poor message across the board, and that's never going to change. But the good news is, not every young girl will take away from this show what the producers would like them to. The teenage girl in my household despises Lana and the Clana with the red hot fire of a thousand suns, and her favorite character is Chloe. So take heart - there is hope. ;)

I also didn't mean to imply that the producers were going to bump Chloe off this season. I personally do believe they intend to get rid of her eventually and before the end of the series, and I think the nixing of the addition of Chloe Sullivan to comic lore was probably a heads up that they still intend for the character to have no real future - unless they're going to morph her into the real Lois Lane. But I doubt that's their intent right now as cool as I think it would be.