3311 replies to this topic

[Naxus]

From the S1 tread:

The Annoying One was just weird. Were they ever planning on actually doing something with him? Because as it is he seems like a totally pointless addition to both seasons 1 and 2. -- Swift Shy Guy

I think they were going to do a little more with him, but apparently realized they needed to kill him after seeing the rather noticeable growth spurt the actor went through between seasons. Of course, the damage was already done, so to speak, in "WSWB" and "SH," so I wonder if they were just making sure the character didn't (literally) grow any more. If so, that's kind of funny, because I saw a movie with him in it from a couple years ago (which would have been two or three years after Buffy, unless it was a delayed release or something) and he really doesn't look or sound much different.

For some reason that even I don't know anymore, I was really pissed at Spike when he killed him. I guess I liked the character. I think I mostly liked him in "Prophecy Girl," when he was all "Help me" and stuff. But I grew to love Spike. For a couple years at least. [OT]I actually had a similar reaction the Mayor -- I hated him at first, because I think my reaction was 'He's the big bad?! He's not a vampire!' But then came the love. Which, in the Mayor's case, continued all the way through S7.

Edited by Naxus, Jan 17, 2004 @ 3:49 AM.

[Brahmsian]

I wonder how people would have reacted to the Annointed One if Danny Strong had played him rather than Andrew Ferchland. And how later season plotlines might have gone if ME hadn't had to worry about growth spurts.

I'm not complaining about the way things actually worked out mind you, not by a long shot. But I am curious.

[Swift Shy Guy]

I think they were going to do a little more with him, but apparently realized they needed to kill him after seeing the rather noticeable growth spurt the actor went through between seasons.

Ah, I hadn't ever thought of that, but it makes sense. When I went through my s4 DVDs, I thought that the kid who Adam kills was the Annoying One for a while, actually.

[violetoceans]

Please pity me...I just discovered Buffy this past month and I'm so hooked. I'm watching season two on syndication and the episodes have all been great! I loved watching Innocence where Willow tries to make out with Oz and he says no. He says something about waiting until she really wants to kiss him; otherwise, it would be shallow. I just loved Oz in that scene.

I'm jealous of all of you who watched this show when it was still on (this also happened to me w/Seinfeld). I feel like I really missed out. If there is any other WB/UPN show as good as Buffy, please tell me. I don't want to miss out again. (I have watched all other major shows, except Joan of Arcadia, but none are as good).

[Swift Shy Guy]

I just loved Oz in that scene.

Welcome to the club. Be prepared to fall completely in love with Oz over the next season and a half.

[Endeavour]

If there is any other WB/UPN show as good as Buffy, please tell me.

You might want to give Angel a try. Although, you should probably wait until you've seen S3 of Buffy.

[StephenTrendy]

Innocence was a great episode, but I can't believe they are chopping out Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. They also took out Ted and Bad Eggs. As much as I love arc-y goodness, it's hard to go through straight arcs. Unless my local station is the only one that's cutting up the season for Arc-iness.

[KatieRose]

While my Season 2 love still takes second to my Season 3 love, Season 2 is still so much fun to watch.

I loved all the cheesy episodes: Bad Eggs, Ted, and even Go Fish. Plus, the arc was just phenomenal. When Angel went bad, I was completely shocked.

On a much more shallow note, I didn't like Buffy's hair for most of the season, but I loved it during Becoming I. You know, that shot of her running in slo mo in the blue coat as she discovers Kendra's body? She had some great hair.

[Wolfe]

You might want to give Angel a try. Although, you should probably wait until you've seen S3 of Buffy. - Endeavour

I have to second this, violetoceans. Especially, since you're in the middle of Angelus's arc.
Man, I envy you, too. I loved watching S2 for the first time!

[catharsis]

S2 is fantastic-every ep. I can watch over and over (with the exception of Inca Mummy Girl). I like all the cheesy eps too, KatieRose (in fact, they might be my favorite of the season)- I like the gang dynamic that's shown in Ted, Bad Eggs, and Go Fish. I think the stupid monster eps. show the character dynamics off better, so I love them. I would also think it would be kind of jarring to skip Ted and Bad Eggs since they show Angel and Buffy getting closer. Without them, it goes from What's My Line Pt. II to Innocence and that leaves quite a gap-Angel and Buffy sleeping together would seem kind of sudden and out of place without those eps. showing them getting closer. So let me get this straight, they left Inca Mummy Girl in, but cut out these eps? That's just wacky.
Edited because my love of commas is being taken too far

Edited by catharsis, Feb 11, 2004 @ 6:54 PM.

[valeriel]

Just watched "Surprise" & "Innocence" again, my 2 fave Buffy eps. ::sigh:: The relationships, the tension, the drama. Ahhh, season 2 when life was simpler. . . .

[j32master]

Ahh, season 2. I could watch 'When She Was Bad,' 'School Hard,' 'Lie to Me,' 'Surprise,' 'Innocence,' 'Passion,' 'I Only Have Eyes for You,' and both 'Becomings' every day of the damn week and never get tired of any of them. The awesome thing? The rest of the season wasn't much worse...

[StephenTrendy]

I love 'Passion' and they showed that this weekend on my local syndicator. Boy that is such a great epsiode. Every time Ms. Calendar dies, I flinch because its such a ruthless death.

But Drusilla's dog, Sunshine, is worth it...haha.

[Swift Shy Guy]

Every time Ms. Calendar dies, I flinch because its such a ruthless death.

Ditto. What I love about Ms. Calendar's death is that it plays out like a scene where you would normally expect Buffy to show up in the nick of time and save Jenny, but she doesn't. No one does. There's no fooling the monster, no distracting him and running away, no fighting against him an miraculously coming out on top. There's just a demon chasing her and killing her.

It's simple, brutal, and not something usually seen on TV or in movies when it comes to a character that's been developed for one and a half seasons.

And sigh, poor Giles. He never seemed as happy as he did when he was around Jenny in s2, and that's sad.

Bad Ass Giles going after Angelus is probably one of my favorite moments of the series. Wish he would've kicked his ass.

[LMS]

So I've been trying to get a friend of mine who was visiting hooked on Buffy and showed yesterday we reached Surprise/Innocence. I discovered this funny thing...

"Surprise" is harder to watch than "Innocence". Why? Well...
In this episode everybody is adorable and HAPPY. Willow and Oz ("I said date"), Cordy and Xander (heh), even Giles&Jenny and Spike&Dru were there looking happy.
And of course, Buffy and Angel. In the opening scene, with the heavy making out, and the Love Theme playing in the background, I was cringing with pain. They looked so HAPPY and IN LOVE! I had almost forgotten that. Knowing what's gonna happen, the pain that will come and seeing the total cuteness (okay, heavy gag-inducing sappiness also) that was these two pre-nookie, breaks my heart.

[babybluez]

All the happiness in Surprise kills me too. And this is kind of embarrassing to admit, but every time I watch it I hope that magically the end will have changed and Angel won't lose his soul.

[LMS]

babybluez I know! When Angel's all like: "I love you, I try not to, but I can't stop." I have a tendency to yell out "Try harder!" :P

*sigh* Ah...rewatching s2 is so much fun (or more like angst, but whatever).

[Bishop2]

As bizarre as this may sound, I always thought that "Surprise" was a weak entry despite my love for "Innocence." Something about it just felt very "off" to me. Maybe it's because of all the happiness?

[LMS]

Well, since I'm currently riding my "Season2-Train"...
I agree with your statement, Bishop. It WAS weak compared to Innocence, and yes, Innocence is the superior in every way.
But the happiness was sort of necessary in order for Innocence to so completely heartbreking as it, IMHO.
Also, I had just forgotten how IN LOVE Buffy and Angel looked. I mean, seeing the way those two characters have...eh..."evolved" in terms of love-lives, it's sort of like watching the prelude to a train-reck you know is gonna happen. Which makes it sort of sad, IMO.

[brave little toaster]

I always have thought that "Surprise" was kind of cloying and uneventful, and the stunt doubles are horrendously obvious in that scene in the ship yards. It always takes me out of the moment of that scene. But I've never been a big fan of the Buffy birthday episodes. "Innocence" on the other hand--one of my all time favorites. Definitely in my top 5.

I do like the teaser to "Surprise," with Buffy's creepy dream sequence.

[1formybaby]

Funny that in Surprise Buffy and Angel were all tearful about having to separate for a couple of months while he took away the judge part, and by the end of the night they would be separated for much longer, but for different reasons. And for Angel, much much longer.

[catharsis]

I'm in the same boat as all of you who find Surprise so upsetting when you know about the events of Innocence. They were SO happy! I could see how people could find it corny, but I thought the details made it seem like they were really in love- when there's a shot of Giles talking at the party, they're in the background smiling and talking to each other. When they're walking to the boat, he bends down and kisses the crown of her hair. The details in the ep. are so very well done, it makes them seem like a happy, normal (as normal as A Jossverse ship can be) give and take couple. I love it. So much so that I can't watch Innocence right after it - the way Angelus talks to Buffy is just too awful after all that schmoopiness in Surprise.

Edited by catharsis, Feb 29, 2004 @ 11:19 PM.

[pootlus]

babybluez said:

All the happiness in Surprise kills me too. And this is kind of embarrassing to admit, but every time I watch it I hope that magically the end will have changed and Angel won't lose his soul.

Oh dear, you uncovered my guilty secret.

I never had the pleasure/pain of watching Surprise without already knowing the painful consequences, so I can't say whether it would have come off as overly saccharine (I doubt it - I have a very high tolerance for B/A sappiness *g*). As it is, it just heightens the pain. Sigh.

[nil]

Spike and Dru are still the only things I find worth watching in this episode, and it's been six years. I especially like the part where Buffy and Angel have the same 10-minute conversation 3 TIMES. Just fuck already, geez. That's the main event. Everything else, from Buffy's seemingly meaningless dreams ("We never saw a body!" No shit, Buffy) to the unveiling of the Smurf, is clutter.