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6-12: "The Quality of Mercy" 2013.06.16


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#271

cargocarl

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:23 AM

So, for those of you who may not know, yesterday, Sunday June 16th, kicked off a week of official and unofficial events across the Great State of West Virginia celebrating the 150 years of Statehood (June 20, 1963). Apparently wanting to be a turd in the pool of these events, Mad Men mastermind Matthew Weiner has chosen to reveal, this very day, that Smilin' Bob Benson's deep dark secret is that he is a deceitful, malicious (and of couirse this goes without saying: inbred) West Virginian! So, Happy B-day, West Virginia!


Edited by cargocarl, Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:29 AM.


#272

rosjaq

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:43 AM

He may have done Peggy a favor, but he did it in the most humiliating way possible to her.  And it is possible he was doing precisely to humiliate her (and Ted, of course).  IMO, she was right to call him a monster.

If they hadn't been so public with their flirtation, I would agree, but their actions were noticed by many people at Sterling Cooper, not just Don - he was just the first one to realize that their mutual distraction was about to cost the company $30K and possibly a client.  Don may have had them cringing at the meeting, but this wasn't a humiliation IMO.  They knew that he knew how they had behaving towards each other (at least on some level) and, yes, he did take advantage of this to make them squirm.  He came up with the excuse that their idea came from Frank and satisfied the client and got more of the budget approved. If he had truly wanted to humiliate, he could have acted far more deviously and cruelly.

 

Interesting use of Portia's speech from "The Merchant of Venice" for the title of this episode. Mercy that should be given freely and not affected by your dislike of the person deserving or meriting the mercy.  I loved how this applied to both Don and Pete in equal measure this episode.

 

With respects to Don though, does anyone else think that by stopping the Ted/Peggy relationship, Don's attempting to keep them from repeating his own relationship with Megan and the emptiness of his marriage presently?


Edited by rosjaq, Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:12 AM.


#273

renatae

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:49 AM

 

On the way to the hospital they tried to stop for lunch!" Poor Ken.

So next season its all sex ,drugs, and Rock and Roll for Sally. Yeah on Glen for taking up for Sally. He always has. He is her constant.

 

Watching how Peggy and Ted were with each other at the office gave me PTSD from several years ago when I had to work with 2 people having an affair with each other and it was SO FRIGGIN ACKWARD for the rest of us.

 

So Bob is the new Don...changing his identity. A long con....???? Or just a do-over. And whats Pete up to....he was quick to blow the whistle on Don back at the beginning.

 

I want a real storyline with Joan, but with one episode to go, I guess that's not going to happen

 

Also, I don't remember tv remotes in the late 60's. What do others remember??

 

 

Glen does not seem nearly so creepy these days.

 

I wonder what Pete is up to, also. Not sure I buy his story that he knows he can't beat out those "types." Sure, he got shot down by Cooper when he tried to expose Don, but certainly he doesn't think everyone would be so blase about such fraudulence. Besides which, Bob is nothing in the scheme of things compared to Don. Pete seemed very smug right before he went back into his office. 

 

Interesting to learn what it is about Bob - that there is something after all. But, of course, his being gay, that's messing with Joan, although we haven't seen them together lately. Dang - I did want her to have a worthwhile relationship.

 

I remember remotes existed in the 60's, but not too many people had them. I think I knew one family.


Edited by renatae, Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:53 AM.


#274

bosawks

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:49 AM

Peggy and Ted are acting like school kids but on the firm's impropriety meter they have a quite ways to go before they hit the red zone.

Don knowingly hit Peggy where it would hurt her the most, credit for her work. At the root this is still SCD&P and office antics will come and they will go, screwing up accounts are a given and Don's interest is as constant as a summer breeze. He did what he did for his own reasons and it was basically throwing money in Peggy's face all over again with much the same result for Don.

#275

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:53 AM

Myth-busting: Peggy would still get credit for the St. Joseph's ad as the copywriter.  Clios and other ad awards honor work done - art director, copywriter, exec creative director and producer.

 

 

 

I may be the only one who agrees with what Don did to Ted and Peggy in the meeting. He saved that account. Single handedly. Ted is an idiot to go from a $15,000 contract agreement, over budget up to $50,000 and not tell the client. Had Don not sent them the revised budget, Ted would have blind-sided them at the billing stage, AFTER the commercial was done. He went over budget because it was Peggy's big idea to cast the actors and he didn't want to disagree with her. Again, he's an idiot.

 

No, you're not.  I had said this in my first post.  I didn't call him an idiot (just out of control).  But frankly when Don was giving him the whole "not thinking with your head" speech, it clearly was him drawing on his recent Sylvia experience.  I don't know if Sally's horror will be his long-term behavior-changing wake-up call, but he seems to understand that his infidelity doesn't exist in a bubble any more (not that it ever did, but you know what I mean). 

 

Also struck me exactly how little clout Pete has within his own agency where he's a partner (the scene where the senior partners made him keep BrownNoserBob).  Maybe he is planning an exit strategy, but I hope that wouldn't mean the departure of VK, who is positively amazing. 


Edited by texastwostep, Jun 17, 2013 @ 5:59 AM.


#276

felixhoenniker

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:10 AM

Peggy, do you remember getting pregnant and Don coming to your rescue?  Do you remember Freddy Rumsford and Don believing in you when you came up with the good (not great, not excellent, not groundbreaking) idea for Belle Jolie lipstick?  Do you remember Don steering you in the right direction when you presented naïve and childish ideas on countless projects?  You remember fooling around with Duck Phillips like a little schoolgirl kissing her boyfriend behind the bleachers after school?  Do you realize that you and Ted look like a couple of drunk college kids fooling around with each other?

 

Listen, Peggers...just a few years ago you were a sheltered little mouse with the prospect of being a secretary for your whole life, and the only reason you're off that trajectory is because of Don and others at the agency.  So please, just keep the morality speeches to yourself and think of something better than a mom giving aspirin to her baby.  Which is probably more than you've ever given your own kid.



#277

Dis Gruntled

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:23 AM

 

So, for those of you who may not know, yesterday, Sunday June 16th, kicked off a week of official and unofficial events across the Great State of West Virginia celebrating the 150 years of Statehood (June 20, 1963). Apparently wanting to be a turd in the pool of these events, Mad Men mastermind Matthew Weiner has chosen to reveal, this very day, that Smilin' Bob Benson's deep dark secret is that he is a deceitful, malicious (and of couirse this goes without saying: inbred) West Virginian! So, Happy B-day, West Virginia!

 

 

I would say their image problems are their own fault. Maybe they should hire SC&P to do their tourism.



#278

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:38 AM

 

Next week - season finale? Nooooooo!  Damn u AMC for not repeating the epi.

 

I guess Pete is pulling a Godfather -- keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

 

I thought we were going to have another repeat when Don added liquor to his OJ.  He went through that when he and Betty first split up.

 

He has absolutely no idea what Megan does during her job, nor does he care, it appears.

 

I wonder how Ted will deal w Peggy now that Don made him see how he was acting.

 

Poor Ken.

 

I laughed right through Megan's scene - really bad acting. But one would think Don would show a modicum of interest.

 

I feel so badly for Ken - no one takes all his injuries and humiliation at the hands of Chevy seriously. He is just supposed to grin and bear it. How savage.



#279

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:45 AM

My  problem is it doesn't feel real, or earned. It all feels fake, including Don being wrong, but Weiner not copping at this moment to rigging the game by having Peggy behave like "the smuggest bitch in the world." He's (Weiner's) having it both ways.

 

Since the merger, I feel as if she's noticed Don fucking up, but her reaction is very mean girls, immature, not the reaction of someone who has  history and is leery of being in the situation again. Instead she's like "what a LOSER! I'm so lucky there's a much better, cooler Don around!" It's all about Ted. Don's fuck-ups are just a way for her to tout Ted.

 

What bothers me is there's no Peggy in this. Her few encounters with Don have been mostly her telling him Ted is so much better. There's no drive her in her work that's dramatized, they dont show her being challenged or inspired (not since Koss), they showed us nothing of Ocean Spray's process, and while yes, I believe Peggy would have an office fling with a married guy, I don't think she'd act out like such an oblivious, entitled douchebag, practically wearing a sign that said "so?" What happened to the woman who wanted Ted to lower his voice?


Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:48 AM.


#280

EleanorAquitain

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:48 AM

Listen, Peggers...just a few years ago you were a sheltered little mouse with the prospect of being a secretary for your whole life, and the only reason you're off that trajectory is because of Don and others at the agency.  So please, just keep the morality speeches to yourself and think of something better than a mom giving aspirin to her baby.  Which is probably more than you've ever given your own kid.

 

If Peggy wasn't making them money, none of that would matter.  The fact that Don helped moved Peggy out of the secretarial pool into creative is old news - Peggy isn't required to be eternally grateful, and take all of Don's abuse to thank him for it, IMO.  Don may have had legitimate reasons for doing what he did from an agency perspective, but he was unnecessarily cruel towards Peggy. IMO, she has every right to call him on it, past as "shelted little mouse" notwithstanding.



#281

poeticlicenced

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 6:56 AM

Best moment of the episode was Don saying WAAH like a baby.

 

A Rosemary's Baby themed commerical for baby aspirin was a terrible idea. Artistically it was good, the reality was that no children's pharmaceutical company would want their product to be associated with a horror movie.



#282

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:00 AM

 

Myth-busting: Peggy would still get credit for the St. Joseph's ad as the copywriter.  Clios and other ad awards honor work done - art director, copywriter, exec creative director and producer.

 

 

 

But it will be thought of as Gleason's work which, I think, is an important distinction.  It won't be seen as Peggy's work.  I hate to get all John Proctor with "It's my name" but it's Don appropriating Peggy's work for his own devices and while that's life in the big city that doesn't mean it still doesn't sting.


Edited by bosawks, Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:04 AM.


#283

peeayebee

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:01 AM

Myth-busting: Peggy would still get credit for the St. Joseph's ad as the copywriter.  Clios and other ad awards honor work done - art director, copywriter, exec creative director and producer.

 

Thanks. That's good to know. Still, I wondered when Don said that the idea was Gleason's if Rosemary's Baby had come out before he died. I know that the book had because Sally was reading it, but the idea for the commercial was directly connected to the movie, not the book. 

 


The thing that struck me most about the St. Joseph's Aspirin commercial idea was the breathtaking nonchalance in the way that everyone assumed the Japanese guy should have a camera.

 

That was pretty funny in a I-can't-believe-they're-saying-that way. I'll have to rewatch, but were they still planning on adding this character to the commercial? I don't see the point of it. Seems like Ted & Peggy just got carried away in their euphoria.



#284

kathe593

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:04 AM

Loved the scene in the car with Sally and Betty.  It was reminiscent of my own youth.  Subtext and other bullshit aside;  In those days the saying was "may" be hazardous.  I got my first cigarette from my mother.  And although Betty's behaviour would seem horrific in this day and age, this is what a remember and I bet a lot of you remember.  And you may be remembering as you adjust your nasel canula and turn on your oxygen.  But this was the time.  And this is why I so love this show!    



#285

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:15 AM

Bob is a fraud...wow. Not a huge surprise but man, the guy was a manservant?!

 

 

I got the impression he was more than that -- that he was "kept."
 



Did anyone else think that we'd see the Drapers' servant Carla suddenly appear in the admissions office?

 

 

I did.



#286

lucelu

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:18 AM

Don is such a hypocrite. First, he didn't care about Sunkist or Ocean Spray until he saw Pegs and Ted at the movie theater.  Even the promise of a frolic with Megan didn't stop him from calling Harry to sabotage Peggy's work with Ted on Ocean Spray.

 

This whole thing about Peggy and Ted being work spouses and having obvious crushes in the office.  Perhaps everyone has forgotten about MegaDon at the office.  How Megan, his secretary, comes back as his wife and with a promotion to copy writer without any kind of experience in it whatsoever and every idea that came out of her mouth was creatively amazing to Don and how they arrived late, left early, he made her miss work, demand sex in the office, etc.  Or Roger and his affair then marriage to Suzy.  Joan certainly held some power over others when it was she and Rog shagging their lunch hours away.

 

Don had never cared about a budget in his career.  It was all about the creative work and the clients were idiots that didn't know anything and had to be told, cajoled into big campaigns.  When it is the Don, Mr. Magic Ad man concern trolling over a budget, you know it is an ego/dick swinging move.  Instead of selling it to client, he emasculates Ted and then screws over Peggy who really did come up with a clever funny ad that everyone would be talking about.  Oh, and where are all Don's great ideas?  At the bottom of a bottle of Scotch.  Even his wife isn't trying that hard to bring him back anymore.  I kept waiting to see the pile of luggage at their apartment door and Megan saying "I am done with your sad angry drunken little shtick."

 

Pete, who is sober, sees the leverage he has over his chief rival (who is not Bob) but Ken.  Ken hired the guy without checking out his references.  

 

If I was Peggy, I'd be calling Duck to headhunt me a big fat title and salary at a bigger firm.  Now Ted is going to screw her over in his own guilt.

 



#287

lucelu

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:18 AM

edited, dup post.


Edited by lucelu, Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:20 AM.


#288

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:19 AM

But then Sally was being one snotty teenager when Glen's friend tried to put the moves on her.

 

 

What, by refusing his advances?  He was being aggressive and she wanted none of it.  Good for her.



#289

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:20 AM

The first thing I looked for when I saw Sally, was whether or not she was wearing her monogrammed necklace.  

 

She was not wearing it. She is done with Don.



#290

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:25 AM

 

Best line of the night: Joan's faux-Jewish accented line about the chicken soup.
 

 

 

I agree.  As a Jew who is originally from New York I at first cringed at the mention of such a character but loved Joan's delivery of the line.



#291

lucelu

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:30 AM

 

So, for those of you who may not know, yesterday, Sunday June 16th, kicked off a week of official and unofficial events across the Great State of West Virginia celebrating the 150 years of Statehood (June 20, 1963). Apparently wanting to be a turd in the pool of these events, Mad Men mastermind Matthew Weiner has chosen to reveal, this very day, that Smilin' Bob Benson's deep dark secret is that he is a deceitful, malicious (and of couirse this goes without saying: inbred) West Virginian! So, Happy B-day, West Virginia

 


 

  I don't think anyone knew this that is not from West Virginia.  While I tip my hat to your state's heritage, this really is not on anyone's radar-- particularly not in NY or CA.  No one was deliberately trying to pee in West Virginia's milkshake.

 

Bob Benson's CV stated he was related to a family high on the social register in order to influence his hire--not in the capacity of a servant.  



#292

lkhllywd

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:33 AM

Also, I don't remember tv remotes in the late 60's. What do others remember??

 

 

They defnitely existed --  wireless ones as we see on the show -- even as far back as the fifties.


Edited by lkhllywd, Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:40 AM.


#293

mansfolly

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:39 AM

I liked the cut away to Sally's little satisfied smirk/smile when Glen was hitting Rolo on her behalf.

 

Reminded me of Angela's smirks on "The Office".



#294

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:41 AM

QUOTE: "Don knowingly hit Peggy where it would hurt her the most, credit for her work."

Agreed. I did not see Don actions as being motivated by concern over the firm or over Peggy's reputation. It was nothing but jealousy over seeing Ted paving the way for Peggy to win a CLIO, when Don had refused to give Peggy any credit for her part in the CLIO he himself had won. It seemed to me that when they started talking about CLIOs, Don suddenly decided he needed to act.

Although Don's Mop 'n Glow ad originated from an idea Peggy had, but he would share no credit with her. Now he sees Ted who is not only happy to help Peggy's idea come to fruition, but also is not in any way trying to take over or take credit for her work. Don couldn't stand seeing that, so he interferes. He re-starts the war with Ted and robs Peggy of any credit for the work.

Yes, it would be kind for someone to take Peggy and Ted aside and say their behavior is being noticed, and that they are hurting their reputations with their antics. (I could see Bert Copper being able to do that in such a way as to bring it to light but not humiliate either party.) But that is not what Don did by a long shot. His motives were his own, and he used budgets and client relationships as cover.

Plus he is a louse for not even trying to reach out to Sally. She's going to boarding school - okay, who do I make the check out to. For once I was glad to see Glen. I knew Sally would be safe once he climbed through the window. I was really worried about what those girls were going to do to her.

One last thing - does Moira seem territorial to anyone else, or is it just me? Makes me think she has feelings for Ted, or maybe she and Ted were an item in the past.

#295

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:45 AM

I feel like Weiner is doing the same thing with Jessica Pare. His obvious crush on her is making him shove her in every episode, regardless of fan reaction to her and her less-than-stellar acting ability.

 

 

God forbid a major character should appear in most of -- or even all of -- the episodes of a show. 



#296

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:49 AM

Peggy and Ted's office giddiness in last night's ep was a bit reminiscent of the shenanigans of the "B12 Shot" episode earlier this season. They were really obnoxious and oblivious. Ted gets a little more sniveling and whiny each week. I don't think the end justified Don's means, but I gleefully enjoyed him wiping those dumb, puppy-love grins off of Peggy and Ted's faces.

I sure do hope there's more to Bob's backstory. If not, then ho hum.

Pete really has gotten dumped on this season. I think of all the characters, he's the one I'd like too see as the last man standing when the show ends. And Ginsberg. And Joan.

Edited by YpsiYvonne, Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:50 AM.


#297

lkhllywd

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:51 AM

Was RB filmed at The Dakota?

 

 

At least some of it -- the exteriors of the apartment building referred to in the film as The Bramford -- was indeed shot there.



#298

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 7:59 AM

Tom and Lorenzo.  LOL

 

 

  • It’s amazing how much cheating on their respective spouses with each other has improved Don and Betty’s relationship.

 

 

And this:

 

 

  • Seriously, Megan. Wake the fuck up.

 

http://www.tomandlor...y-of-mercy.html


Edited by rogaine2233, Jun 17, 2013 @ 8:05 AM.


#299

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 8:01 AM


The thing that struck me most about the St. Joseph's Aspirin commercial idea was the breathtaking nonchalance in the way that everyone assumed the Japanese guy should have a camera.

 

 

 There is such a character in the film Rosemary's Baby, so that's why they were talking about it.


Edited by Josette, Jun 17, 2013 @ 8:03 AM.


#300

peeayebee

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Posted Jun 17, 2013 @ 8:09 AM

One last thing - does Moira seem territorial to anyone else, or is it just me? Makes me think she has feelings for Ted, or maybe she and Ted were an item in the past.

I've had that feeling from the first time we saw her, when she was talking to Joan as everyone was moving in. I don't know if there's going to be more about this. I don't think she and Ted had been involved before. I think she might have a crush on him, but she's also being a loyal secretary. Dawn also has been shown to be efficient as she takes care of Don.

 

 

There is such a character in the film Rosemary's Baby, so that's why they were going to put it in the commercial.

One reason they wanted this character in the commercial was so he could take a photo and have the flash turn the screen to white from which the angelic mother would appear. Still, I think that's a superfluous character for the ad. They could turn the screen white without the photographer bit.

 
 
The daisies on the wall in the boarding school room took me back. My older sister had plastered those -- in yellow and orange -- on our closet doors.

Edited by peeayebee, Jun 17, 2013 @ 8:10 AM.