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Sleepy Hollow: Time-Traveling Ichabod Crane


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#181

taiko

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:03 AM

Question: has anyone addressed if this universe has any story by Wasington Irving about Sleepy Hollow? I'm thinking that it doesn't exist in the SH universe or else all of these characters are incredibly poorly read.

It seems like it will be like The Walking Dead where nobody ever heard of a zombie. However with the biblical background so far besides Crane, being a man educated in an earlier age when it was the basis for much instruction there was no character in the cleric role


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#182

randomchance

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:04 AM

 

Question: has anyone addressed if this universe has any story by Wasington Irving about Sleepy Hollow? I'm thinking that it doesn't exist in the SH universe or else all of these characters are incredibly poorly read.

 

 

That's a good question.  You'd think that if it existed in their world, they'd sit up and take notice of someone claiming to be Ichabod Crane.  Even I would connect those dots, and I've never read the story.  (Because I have a "thing" about decapitation ... which is now a feature on my new favorite show.  Ironic, ain't it?)


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#183

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:09 AM

This guy has been buried for 250 years and nobody threw him in a shower and washed his clothes, let alone said, "Whew! What's that smell?"

 

I agree the show had at least 30 nitpickworthy points, but as long as you hit me with the goodness, I will overlook the issues. So for this part, if something rose him from the dead and I can accept that, then I can accept that whatever power rose him from the dead to fight the horseman also hit him with some Febreze.


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#184

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:11 AM

I'm sure this says a lot more about me than it does the show, but there were several times during the episode that all I could think about was the Scooby Doo Headless Horseman episode. It got pretty distracting at some points.


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#185

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:13 AM

I agree the show had at least 30 nitpickworthy points, but as long as you hit me with the goodness, I will overlook the issues.

 

Plus he looked so pretty, so I'll just figure that whatever kept him so pretty also kept him smelling good. 


Edited by randomchance, Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:14 AM.

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#186

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:21 AM

I think if the story "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" existed in this world, somebody would have remarked on it by now, to say nothing of the involvement of a certain possibly obstructionist police captain named "Irving."
 
Maybe Katrina's spell came with the stench-countering upgrade. I'm sure she was up on all the latest developments in 18th-century sorcery technique. 

 

Foxy and Smolder in Sleepy Hollow

 
I like you.
 
I am almost certain that the tidy population number (12 squared times 1000) will eventually have significance to the plot, possibly linked to

Spoiler
I don't know what the significance of that number is, but I feel like it should have some.


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#187

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:39 AM

I think if the story "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" existed in this world, somebody would have remarked on it by now, to say nothing of the involvement of a certain possibly obstructionist police captain named "Irving."

 

Sandman- the complete lack of acknowledgement by the characters is what caused me to ask the question; I just wondered if anyone had read/seen anything in promotional materials or interviews that confirmed.

 

Heh- I wish I had Ike's daisy fresh scent spell for my house. Gets rid of soil, corruption, cadaver, and pet odors...

 

Speaking of spells... I hope we get to see more witch-y wicked chain craft like the padre had. Ninja Salem witches would be awesome...


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#188

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:40 AM

I watched the first few minutes, saw John Cho, and thought, I'm in.  I couldn't watch the whole thing, but they killed John Cho off already?  OK, I'm out.  This didn't seem like anything fresh or original anyway (Elementary?  Once Upon A Time?  Grimm?)  


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#189

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:40 AM

her costar towers over her so she looks kinda tiny in a lot of their shots together.

 

I had to check their heights: He's 6'1" and she's 5'1". It'll be interesting to see how they block them in the future.

 

Loved the little jokes scattered throughout the show: When we went back to the church after the priest had been killed, you saw that the "Horse Crossing" sign had been sliced so the rider was headless. Hee. I hope the show keeps that stuff up.

 

The wife stuff is boring, but as long as it doesn't dominate things, I'm okay with it. Same with the mythology stuff. They need to keep it fairly simple.

 

I agree the show had at least 30 nitpickworthy points, but as long as you hit me with the goodness, I will overlook the issues.

Plus he looked so pretty, so I'll just figure that whatever kept him so pretty also kept him smelling good.

 

I figured that white stuff on him when he was digging himself out of his grave was lime, so that's why he stayed daisy fresh. But pretty works, too.


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#190

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:43 AM

I am almost certain that the tidy population number (12 squared times 1000) will eventually have significance to the plot, possibly linked to

Spoiler
Crane's membership in the Masonic Lodge.

I don't know what the significance of that number is, but I feel like it should have some

 

 

 Remember the look Crane had on his face when he was shown the dollar bill. 


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#191

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:45 AM

Loved it.  It was fun.

 

 

I knew that I would enjoy this when Beharie's character said "You're offended?" with just right amount of attitude.

 

 

Yup.  This!

 

I also liked Crane he persisted in calling her 'Leftenant'

 

 

I figured that white stuff on him when he was digging himself out of his grave was lime, so that's why he stayed daisy fresh. But pretty works, too.

 

 

 

 

Or possibly salt?  Salt is big with witches.  Protective circles and all.


Edited by DearEvette, Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:47 AM.

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#192

Kitten Poker Cheater

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 9:46 AM

snip


Edited by Kitten Poker Cheater, Apr 6, 2014 @ 9:41 AM.

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#193

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:09 AM

This show is right up my alley and I absolutely loved (most of) it. However ... when the headless horseman turned into the terminator - with guns a blazing - I almost had to turn it off. Took me right out of the story. I hope they keep him to blade and axe in the future.


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#194

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:09 AM

Unless this is an alternate universe, I wonder if the town people KNOW the legend, but aren't telling Icabod for some reason or other.

I'm working under the assumption that in the show's universe there is no legend or story.


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#195

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:21 AM

Loved it! My only complaint is the horseman using modern weapons. Stick to the axe please.
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#196

taiko

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:23 AM

This show is right up my alley and I absolutely loved (most of) it. However ... when the headless horseman turned into the terminator - with guns a blazing - I almost had to turn it off. Took me right out of the story. I hope they keep him to blade and axe in the future.

I'm with you there. Bits of the tone are still off like the Deputies who came to back up the LT were kind of soft for a depatment whose Sheriff was just murdered a few hours before.

I do like that Crane knows his sacrifice was not in vain and he was ultimately on the winning side. Making him much more likely to continue the fight even without his wife around.
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#197

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:34 AM

I really enjoyed this and set a season pass on my dvr the second it was over.

 

There were definitely a few nitpicks, but I think that's true of 99% of pilots. I loved that it jumped straight into the action and didn't let up the entire hour, even if I felt like they tried to cram everything and the kitchen sink into an hour. I have it saved on my dvr so I can re-watch and look for the little things I missed.

 

I'm bummed Clancy MF Brown and John Cho are dead, but I'm hopeful we'll get to see them in flashbacks. Was John Cho supposed to be part of the bad witches coven? It cracked me up when the Headless Horseman rose up in his apartment like he was just lying on the couch, waiting for John to get home.

 

And it's been ages since I've read the book, but was the Headless Horseman always allergic to sunlight, like a vampire?


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#198

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:43 AM

The ratings were pretty good, but so were the ratings of other FOX shows that got the axe (no pun intended?). http://tvline.com/20...with-the-stars/

 

Fox’s Sleepy Hollow roused TV viewers this Monday night, premiering to a total audience of 10 million while scoring a 3.4 demo rating.

 

Those tallies mark not only double what The Mob Doctor pulled a year ago (5 mil/1.5), but the demo delivery eclipses that of Fox’s past Monday launches The Following (10.4 mil/3.2), Alcatraz (10 mil/3.3) and Terra Nova (9.1 mil/3.1).

 

I haven't read the book, but isn't the horseman suppose to use the heads of his victims? Doesn't he use them to replace his own head? It was bothering me that he kept leaving them lay around.


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#199

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:52 AM

Ninja Salem witches would be awesome...

 

November sweeps?

 

I have no problem in principle with Katrina the redheaded good witch/ghost wife. I'm a sucker for the Ancient Order of Guardians trope, I guess.  

 

This thing is going to be a giant stewpot of every War Between The Forces of Light and Darkness trope ever, isn't it?


Edited by Sandman, Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:56 AM.

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#200

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:54 AM

I really liked the pilot. So I'll be back. As for the Horseman using modern weapons, if you were a terrifying herald/bringer of doom and destruction wouldn't you use the most effective weapons you could find, no matter when you were walking the Earth? I did like the axe better though.


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#201

TheThirdComing

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 10:55 AM

How AU is this show? Because that could explain a lot:

 

The apparent lack of the Sleepy Hollow story.

The town's population.

The changes to the bible.

 

could all be from that, or the writers just did what they wanted.


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#202

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 11:01 AM

Yay for good ratings!  Hopefully enough vewiers will stick around in the upcoming weeks to keep the show a hit.

 

Doesn't he use them to replace his own head?

In the original story, the horseman was looking for his own head, but I don't recall him taking others' to replace his.  I thought it was just supposed to be a malevolent spirit (assuming it was even real and not just Brom Bones dressed up). 

 

And it's been ages since I've read the book, but was the Headless Horseman always allergic to sunlight, like a vampire?

I don't think he was allergic to sunlight, just like most ghosts and spirits he didn't appear during the day. 


Edited by Gin and Tonic, Sep 17, 2013 @ 11:01 AM.

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#203

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 11:06 AM

Several people upthread said they like a good "fish out of water" story...as do I...in fact, anyone else remember Due South?

 

Then DearEvette pointed this out:

I also liked Crane he persisted in calling her 'Leftenant'

 

 

Yeah...this was something Fraser the Mountie used to do to Ray's commanding officer.

 

Re:  the number 144,000

 

Out of Wikipedia because hey, this is just a commentary on a TV show, not a frickin' research paper:

 

The numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are variously interpreted in traditional Christianity. Some, taking the numbers in Revelation to be symbolic,[1] believe it represents all of God's people throughout history in the heavenly Church.[2] One suggestion is that the number comes from 12, a symbol for totality, which is squared and multiplied by one thousand for more emphasis. Others insist the numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are literal numbers and representing either descendants of Jacob (also called Israel in the Bible) or others to whom God has given a superior destiny with a distinct role at the time of the end of the world.[3] One understanding is that the 144,000 are recently converted Jewish evangelists sent out to bring sinners to Jesus Christ during the seven year tribulation period.[4]Preterists believe they are Jewish Christians, sealed for deliverance from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

 

 

This is the most concise explaination I've seen, but of course YMMV.


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#204

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 12:14 PM

I've had a morbid fascination with the Headless Horseman story ever since that Disney cartoon version that's one of the few scary things I've ever really liked (a rare case of me enjoying being truly frightened -- I'm not a horror fan), so I was likely to at least give this a try, but I'd kind of forgotten about it. Now I'm glad that I got bored last week and started watching the various fall preview clips that were up OnDemand. Of all the shows I thought I'd like that I sampled, this was the one that got my attention.

 

I like the characters, I'm already loving the relationship between Abbie and Ichabod, and I like the atmosphere. There's just enough humor coming from character snark and the fish-out-of-water situation. The one thing that worries me is the mythology. For one thing, it seldom goes well when TV writers whose exposure to the Bible is limited to the nightstands of hotel rooms discover Revelation and think it sounds cool without having any clue about the context. For another, I'm so over the impending apocalypse as the driving force in a TV show. I know the stakes need to be high, but does it always have to be about saving the entire world from Biblical doom? Can't we just save the town or a group of people? A seemingly immortal, invincible headless horseman running amok in the town seems like a pretty big deal, on its own. Averting the end of the world is just overkill.

 

But I'll wait to see how they use it. If we have to save the world in every single episode, it will get tiresome, but if that's just the backdrop for the mismatched buddy cops dealing with supernatural occurrances, it could be fun. This kind of reminds me of a weird mix of Haven and Grimm. I seem to be fond of paranormal procedurals.


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#205

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 12:35 PM

I seem to remember that the Disney version added the detail that the Horseman sought to cut off another's head to replace his own (he was only using the flaming Jack o'Lantern as a temporary replacement. Er, as one does.). I can't remember if Irving's original story said that once Ichabod crossed a certain bridge he would be safely beyond the Horseman's reach, but it seems to me that sunrise enforcing a limit on the Horseman's power is consistent with the kind of limits traditionally placed on the agents of darkness. (Of course, such creatures are often enjoined by folklore from using modern weaponry as well, so there's clearly some picking and choosing going on the writers' room.)


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#206

queenofsarab

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 12:42 PM

For those asking about whether the legend of Sleepy Hollow exists in this universe, and about the population of the town being 144,000, there are some answers in this article (and some minor spoilers for the season):

 

http://tvline.com/20...tzman-spoilers/


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#207

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 12:48 PM

I'm smitten with this show, and as long as they keep the mythology levels in check I'm going to be completely in love as soon as I finish rewatching the first episode.


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#208

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 12:49 PM

Granted my expectations were no higher than 'Please don't suck", but I really enjoyed the premiere.  I read a blurb somewhere that mentioned the show was "rollicking" and I can't argue with that.  The episode rollicked like sugar-high kids at recess.  It was straight-up fun and the time passed too quickly.  I'm usually a watch-and-delete viewer but I've saved this one for rewatch because I enjoyed it so much.

 

The characters really worked for me.  I like Abbie a lot.  She held onto her doubts and skepticism without edging into blind denial, and then just rolled with it.  She didn't tolerate disrespect from anyone, showed balls and ingenuity in using a sheet of paper to spring Crane from the psych ward and she has a creepy, interesting backstory.  I liked Crane too.  The height difference between the actors didn't bother me because I saw an animated version of the story that had a very tall, very lean Ichabod Crane so I like the callback of Ichabod towering over his new partner.  I hope the writers continue to include small scenes of Ichabod reacting to the strangeness of 2013/14.  His confusion with the car door locks and his fascination with the flashlight were cute, funny moments that didn't derail the action at all.  He seemed like an intelligent, pragmatic man so I expect him to adapt quickly.  I'd spend a week just freaking out about rising from the dead so he's way ahead of me!  I did enjoy the discussion about why the Headless Horseman was headless.  Cutting off the head because it was the next logical step is my new survival mantra, equally applicable to demons and zombies.   

 

I was disappointed to see Clancy Brown exit so quickly but it looks like his character will influence further developments because of his files and voice recording.  I enjoyed Orlando Jones too and the show caught me there.  He had a moment, a look on his face in the hallway, when I thought Orlando Jones's character had to be a member of the evil coven but then the show revealed that the mole was John Cho.  Now I'm not sure what to think.  In this case, I guess, there may be more than one!  Supporting characters like the priest/witch and Katrina did good work, and the Headless Horseman was appropriately creepy.  The axe was cool but I enjoyed his switch to modern weapons too.  Death doesn't screw around when there's killing to be done.

 

The only fail for me was the CGI of the demon.  I hope that improves if they continue to use the image.  Keeping it out-of-focus was a good choice and the mirror cracking made me jump.  I admired the seven years of trials and tribulations remark.  I hope that works out for you, Show, and I think more shows should start with a Best Before date rather than dragging on with kudzu plots and loose threads all over the place.  I'm in for the season if they continue to entertain like this. 


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#209

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 1:05 PM

Just wanted to drop by & post this potential spoiler:  http://emmaneverbett...f-sleepy-hollow


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#210

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Posted Sep 17, 2013 @ 1:09 PM

I think there's probably more than one covertly evil character in the mix. Clancy MF Brown's character wrote that he didn't know who to trust, which suggests to me that the evil minions probably number above 1. (But did anyone else think that the town's history -- if I understood DeadCMFB's notes -- of putting witches to death at the rate of 100 in roughly a century doesn't sound exactly like an epidemic? I mean, granted, an annual tradition of witch-trials isn't how most small towns make their own fun (as far as I know), but still.

 

I'm prepared to give the show endless bonus points if one of the coven members/townsfolk is named Mrs. Jackson, by the way.)  


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