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2-22: "Truth, Part 2" 2013.05.12


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#121

Machuran

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Posted May 21, 2013 @ 1:01 PM

IDK about Jack because I think the Grayson's can easily point Jack out as Victoria knows that Jack & Ashley are in cahoots and Jack was willing to team up with her to take Conrad down. So any actions taken against them they'll probably place the blame all on Jack especially now that Declan is dead. I know Emanda will protect Jack but Grayson's can be nasty and manipulative when they want to be.

Then again Victoria can be distracted if that's her son that showed up at her door, Charlotte's pregnancy, Daniel is kind of clueless. Conrad might be the only one who really doesn't have a major distraction.

 

Jack poorly handled his revenge by telling Victoria.

 

I believe he became a part of the inner circle when Helen visited him in jail.

 

Exactly, there was a flashback during that scene.



#122

Glade

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Posted May 21, 2013 @ 2:46 PM

"Maybe I'm just that aromantic, but IMO Jack did know the woman he married."

 

That's bullshit.  Amily took him for a ride, using and lying to him for her own amusement and to piss of Emanda.  Jack would have never taken their relationship that far that fast unless she had gone behind Emanda's back and lied to him about being Amanda.  Jack and Emanda's childhood sweetheart story is really sweet and beautiful.  Sensitive people will form an attatchment like that and no it is not creepy.  What is creepy is that people would act like Amily was entitled to lie, manipulate, and use Jack all she wanted (and of her own accord--since no one told her 'tell jack your Amanda so he will let you move in and give you a job") but if he gets angry about it he's just a worthless ass and she deserves better.


Edited by Glade, May 21, 2013 @ 2:46 PM.


#123

deme70

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Posted May 21, 2013 @ 10:37 PM

 

What is creepy is that people would act like Amily was entitled to lie, manipulate, and use Jack all she wanted (and of her own accord--since no one told her 'tell jack your Amanda so he will let you move in and give you a job") but if he gets angry about it he's just a worthless ass and she deserves better.

Are you serious?! I'm indifferent to Jack but even I would back him if he is pissed (which he has every right to be) at Emily and wants nothing to do with her.

 

eta: I just hate Amanda is dead because she also deserves whatever anger he dishes out. These two girls did a number on a guy who was living a pretty decent life that got shot to hell once they entered it.


Edited by deme70, May 22, 2013 @ 5:22 PM.


#124

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Posted May 22, 2013 @ 8:34 AM

Are you serious?! I'm indifferent to Jack but even I would back him if he is pissed (which he has every right to be) at Emily and wants nothing to do with her.

 

Especially with all that's happened and how it affected the people he cared about.



#125

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Posted May 25, 2013 @ 1:48 PM

It is almost two weeks and I finally finished the series finale. Yes it is the series finale for me. So bad. What started out as a cerebral mystery series has completely evolved into a daytime soap opera played in prime time.



#126

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Posted May 25, 2013 @ 1:58 PM

I was really hoping it would be Nolan that bit the dust. My least favorite character  on this show and I can't stand his goofy clown outfits and sissy boy demeanor. Emms depends on his techy skills too much and if he were gone it would make her take a different path to get her revenge - like how she was taught by Takeda. Mean and nasty like.

 

Knocking off Declan was a bit lame. He was not a mainstream enough character to make any impact and it's like he was never even there at all.

 

Aiden - what a joke this guy is. He let the mental patient mom get the better of him and he makes more blunders than the 3 stooges. Nobody would want this goofball on their side. Daniel probably didn't do away with him, but maybe he left him incapacitated or something.

 

Conrad - I like the ultra evil Conrad and now he's the Gov. Should be some real fireworks in season 3 with him in the office.

 

Can't wait for season 3 to start. S2 was definitely slow, but hopefully the new writers will bring this show back to what it was.



#127

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 12:57 AM

New to the message board here. Am I the only one that likes Victoria, I absolutely love her and Nolan without them I wouldn't bother watching. 

 

 

 

I LOVE Victoria Grayson!  Love her, but I also love Regina in OUAT!  Evil women on these shows are these representations of beauty, power and strength.  I know they are bad, but I love them for all their faults, its hard for me to root for perfect people.



#128

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 1:06 AM

I don't think he is the mastermind- he said in the scene with Helen Crowley that he wanted in to the inner circle.. he may be in but the group that is so called the initiative was in place long before. As for how long he was in the inner circle, that seemed ambiguous.  I thought only for a year or so.. was there anything stated that indicated how long he was involved?

 

Conrad's not the mastermind - I was using it as a figure of speech. I wouldn't be surprised if he later became the head of the Initiative, however.

 

Considering Conrad was part of the inner circle since the Flight 197 incident (due to the deal he made with Helen Crowley in jail), he's most likely been a part of the inner circle of the Initiative ever since. He said so himself that Daniel was never in any real danger from the Initiative to Victoria.


Edited by jingrl89, May 26, 2013 @ 1:10 AM.


#129

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 8:02 AM

Conrad's not the mastermind - I was using it as a figure of speech. I wouldn't be surprised if he later became the head of the Initiative, however.

 

Considering Conrad was part of the inner circle since the Flight 197 incident (due to the deal he made with Helen Crowley in jail), he's most likely been a part of the inner circle of the Initiative ever since. He said so himself that Daniel was never in any real danger from the Initiative to Victoria.

 

Exactly, there was a flachback to this with Helen in the cell talking about this too.


Edited by Machuran, May 26, 2013 @ 8:03 AM.


#130

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 9:13 AM

 

Exactly, there was a flachback to this with Helen in the cell talking about this too.

 

 

What was what was unclear to me- when was that visit to the jail?  How long has he been involved?  I thought they left it somewhat ambiguous, but I was marathoning the last several episodes while sick.  



#131

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 5:45 PM

The Conrad thing feels like a retcon but I think the Initiative was such a mess this was the only way to fix it. Conrad, along with Victoria, are very good at being villians. Wendy Crewson's character and her sidekick were not so good with the villainy.

In retrospect, it's painfully obvious to me that Tyler, Frank, Lydia & White-Haired Man were all killed off too soon. None of the characters introduced in s2 (except maybe Aiden) did anything to drive story. I would rather be shocked by a clever twist plot twist than the killing off of a good troublemaker.

I hope the new Showrunner does a true reset with the show. Maybe jump a year or two in time or something so we can put away s2 and start fresh.

#132

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 5:57 PM

What was what was unclear to me- when was that visit to the jail?  How long has he been involved?  I thought they left it somewhat ambiguous, but I was marathoning the last several episodes while sick.

 

I don't remember the exact details, but it happened when Emily framed him for WHM's murder during their staged wedding and Helen/Initiative had a hand in getting him out of the cell, there was a scene of them talking and I guess the flashback lengtehned that.

 

I hope the new Showrunner does a true reset with the show. Maybe jump a year or two in time or something so we can put away s2 and start fresh.

 

There is supposed to be a time jump next season, Idk how long it'll be though.



#133

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 8:20 PM

 

What was what was unclear to me- when was that visit to the jail?  How long has he been involved?  I thought they left it somewhat ambiguous, but I was marathoning the last several episodes while sick.

 

I don't remember the exact details, but it happened when Emily framed him for WHM's murder during their staged wedding and Helen/Initiative had a hand in getting him out of the cell, there was a scene of them talking and I guess the flashback lengtehned that.

 

 

So that wasn't that long ago then, was it?  A year or so.. yes?


Edited by callietwo, May 26, 2013 @ 8:21 PM.


#134

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 8:22 PM

I got so bored with the first half of the season I tuned out.  But I finally finished watching the rest of the season and I have to say I loved the last 4 or 5 episodes so I don't need a redo.

Aiden turned into a wonderful character. Favorite scene of the season was him killing Tekada. Glad that character is gone.  Also loved him calling Daniel a little boy. 

 

The Initiative is gone and I don't mind Conrad turning into a major villain.  

 

Victoria seems to have more layers.  Saw some vulnerability from her.

 

Ashley and Jack teaming up was fun for me.  She cracked me up with the baby.

 

And the last episode had me on pins and needles.  

 

I'm intrigued by the son for Victoria.

 

And I'm glad Jack finally knows about Amanda.

 

Really just love to watch Amanda/Aiden/Jack/Nola in any configuration.  Aiden calling Nolan his unexpected friend, great stuff.  Heck I just love Aiden LOL.

 

Can't wait for next season.

 

I even shed a tear for DeClan.  

 

All in all a satisfying end to a very weak start of the season.



#135

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 8:27 PM

I LOVE Victoria Grayson!  Love her, but I also love Regina in OUAT!  Evil women on these shows are these representations of beauty, power and strength.  I know they are bad, but I love them for all their faults, its hard for me to root for perfect people.

 

 

 

 

Yea sometimes it's hard for me to root for Emanda when I love Victoria so much, she's my second favorite character behind Nolan. I like that Victoria will do anything to keep her reputation and family afloat. I mean she let Conrad kick her ass. 



#136

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 8:31 PM

Exactly! Jack spent episodes screaming the Graysons will pay, calling the family a trainwreck (which they are) and hating Emily because "she's practically a Grayson!" (His words not mine.) And yet he goes and trusts a GRAYSON!? Yes, Jack, the connoisseur of deception, is just what Team Emily needs to finally take down the Graysons. Oy.

 

I enjoyed Jack and his infiltration of Conrad's election campaign. He actually did manage to so some good things for being a basically decent person.  He trusts too much but you know what as much as I love them Amanad and Aiden who were trained to be bad asses aren't significantly better.

I look forward to Amanda/Jack/Aiden(he better not be dead) teaming up next season to help Nolan.  Should be interesting.  Oh and throw Ashley into the mix. Jack made her intresting, FINALLY.
 


Edited by angelita100, May 26, 2013 @ 8:32 PM.


#137

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 9:11 PM

So that wasn't that long ago then, was it?  A year or so.. yes?

 

Possibly, I'm not too sure about the entire timeline, I guess so since the elections takes place in the Fall.



#138

deme70

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 10:11 PM

 

In retrospect, it's painfully obvious to me that Tyler, Frank, Lydia & White-Haired Man were all killed off too soon.

 

Glad Tyler is gone but the other 3 I do miss. The characters in Conrad & Victoria's age range are far more interesting to me then the age group below them. Which is quite sad considering, the main character is part of that group.



#139

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Posted May 26, 2013 @ 11:02 PM

Glad Tyler is gone but the other 3 I do miss. The characters in Conrad & Victoria's age range are far more interesting to me then the age group below them. Which is quite sad considering, the main character is part of that group.

 

I could understand Tyler since his antics would get old fast if his character was kept on, but yeah, the other characters were wasted, especially WHM since he killed Emily's dad and he went out in a disappointing way with Aiden killing him.



#140

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 10:29 AM

Quote

I'm really slow.  I missed the 'Initiative doesn't exist' context.

 

It's the scene between Conrad and Victoria where he revealed that Daniel was never in danger, the Initiative were just some rich business people who wanted to play God/have control over disasters like taking Nolan's carrion which caused the blackout or framing David Clarke for selfish reasons.

 

I COMPLETELY missed this, too. Granted, I multi-task during this show, so I probably miss a lot--especially when it's just dialogue and no action to grab my attention. However, okay, I'm willing to accept that Mike Kelley was driving this show off into a ditch and after he got the heave-ho, the other PTB decided that they have to get rid of EVERYTHING the fans (many of whom now hate-watch) have been complaining about. Top on that list was getting rid of the stupid Initiative and focus on the Graysons as the "villains" of the show. Also, many fans couldn't STAND Declan season 1, and although he seemed to get better in season 2--just compared to all of these NEW people we hated more--get rid of him, too. I actually now have high hopes that this show COULD get better in season 3 and focus more on the roots that initially drew many of us in. Heck, look how long it took me to get around to watching the finale and then being bored enough to want to come comment on it. It can only go up from here with eeevil Conrad Grayson, dead Declan, and, oh yeah, can't forget the "shippers" or at least "team-upers" who wanted Emanda to tell Jack the truth, etc.



#141

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 10:52 AM

 However, okay, I'm willing to accept that Mike Kelley was driving this show off into a ditch and after he got the heave-ho, the other PTB decided that they have to get rid of EVERYTHING the fans (many of whom now hate-watch) have been complaining about.

I thought the new PTB weren't starting till S3?  Did they already come in and made these changes?  Because it would actually make sense that they cleaned up MK's mess but I didn't know the swap had already happened.

 

Too bad Declan had to be sacrificed though since he's the only one that was acting like an adult.   I'd much rather they killed off Jack and be done with that SL too plus it would just invigorate Emanda's rage and revenge.  



#142

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 12:40 PM

I COMPLETELY missed this, too. Granted, I multi-task during this show, so I probably miss a lot--especially when it's just dialogue and no action to grab my attention. However, okay, I'm willing to accept that Mike Kelley was driving this show off into a ditch and after he got the heave-ho, the other PTB decided that they have to get rid of EVERYTHING the fans (many of whom now hate-watch) have been complaining about. Top on that list was getting rid of the stupid Initiative and focus on the Graysons as the "villains" of the show. Also, many fans couldn't STAND Declan season 1, and although he seemed to get better in season 2--just compared to all of these NEW people we hated more--get rid of him, too. I actually now have high hopes that this show COULD get better in season 3 and focus more on the roots that initially drew many of us in. Heck, look how long it took me to get around to watching the finale and then being bored enough to want to come comment on it. It can only go up from here with eeevil Conrad Grayson, dead Declan, and, oh yeah, can't forget the "shippers" or at least "team-upers" who wanted Emanda to tell Jack the truth, etc.

 

They've already been in the process of doing that, they got rid of Helen Crowley/Trask and Padma, oh and took care of the Ryan bros 1 way or another.

 

I also think the writers also didn't know what to do with Declan, so they killed him off to impact Jack some more.


Edited by Machuran, May 29, 2013 @ 12:45 PM.


#143

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 1:04 PM

 

I thought the new PTB weren't starting till S3?  Did they already come in and made these changes?  Because it would actually make sense that they cleaned up MK's mess but I didn't know the swap had already happened. 

 

I was speaking out of turn there. I don't know who made that decision. The network telling him to change course? Other writers? Possibly Mike Kelley himself realized the error of his ways and tried to rectify the show before collapsing in a heap of tears under the criticisim. <-- Yeah, I made up that crying part, too. ;-) Who knows. But I think it's accurate to say that this season was so terrible and the backlash so awful that the network almost didn't pick up the show for renewal until after Kelley announced he was leaving. So some "power" involved in the show certainly went ahead with a course correction in the finale.


Edited by JenE4, May 29, 2013 @ 1:06 PM.


#144

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 8:07 PM

I was speaking out of turn there. I don't know who made that decision. The network telling him to change course? Other writers? Possibly Mike Kelley himself realized the error of his ways and tried to rectify the show before collapsing in a heap of tears under the criticisim. <-- Yeah, I made up that crying part, too. ;-) Who knows. But I think it's accurate to say that this season was so terrible and the backlash so awful that the network almost didn't pick up the show for renewal until after Kelley announced he was leaving. So some "power" involved in the show certainly went ahead with a course correction in the finale.

 

They probably just replaced him after the way Season 2 was going and they probably didn't like his plans for Season 3.



#145

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 9:08 PM

Per the interview here, it was a mutual decision:

 

And in there he says he'll probably stay on as consultant and the show’s writer/executive producer Sunil Nayar appears the logical choice and is rumored for the job to replace him.  (I didn't catch whether that has been confirmed, this interview took place last month)

 

The above interview also has him saying this about the finale:  “I’m excited about finishing post production on the season two finale, which I hope will stand among the best episodes of the series thus far. Continued success to all.”

 

 I don't think he succeeded on that count, sadly.  



#146

deme70

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 10:15 PM

It has been confirmed that Sunil Nayar is the new showrunner. They have also added two new EPs. The consultant bit I feel is just the party line. I don't see Mike Kelley staying on in any capacity.

 

The above interview also has him saying this about the finale:  “I’m excited about finishing post production on the season two finale, which I hope will stand among the best episodes of the series thus far. Continued success to all.”

 

 I don't think he succeeded on that count, sadly.

 

I must agree. I expected to be disappointed because of the hype surrounding it from the actor's tweets (crying when they read the script, needing a bag to breathe in, etc. etc.). Rarely do my expectations of this show line up with the cast's. I guess it would be considered among the best due to the reveal to Jack. But I can't say I've been waiting on pins and needles for that one. I'm glad it's done so we can move on. The biggest bombshell of this show will be the reveal to Victoria. THAT'S the one I await.


Edited by deme70, May 29, 2013 @ 10:20 PM.


#147

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Posted May 30, 2013 @ 6:28 AM

 

I was speaking out of turn there. I don't know who made that decision. The network telling him to change course? Other writers? Possibly Mike Kelley himself realized the error of his ways and tried to rectify the show before collapsing in a heap of tears under the criticisim. <-- Yeah, I made up that crying part, too. ;-) Who knows. But I think it's accurate to say that this season was so terrible and the backlash so awful that the network almost didn't pick up the show for renewal until after Kelley announced he was leaving. So some "power" involved in the show certainly went ahead with a course correction in the finale.

 

 

Sunil Nayer the new Showrunner wrote Ep 18, so I am wondering if he was gradually maneovered into a strong position near the end of S2. Like all shows the Revenge Team have to make a pitch for another series i.e. renewal - here's what ABC President said.

 

Wetpaint Entertainment spoke with ABC President Paul Lee about the network’s decision to renew the show on May 14.

“It's a wonderful brand for us, and it still has an incredibly passionate audience and a spectacular cast,” he said. “And we sat down with the show; and they have such great, focused ideas about going back to the heart of Emily's journey and the malice in her heart. We loved the idea of it. We think it's a very strong show, and we really think it can grow next year.”

 

 

I can see alot of spin in that - 'we sat down with the show' probably meant they had a great big pow wow about what went wrong with S2 and I'm guessing this was where Mike Kelley vented his frustration re 22 eps against 13. I'm sure he stood down so the show could at least continue in some re-set form, but I too doubt he'll be any part of it - 'consultant role' was more PR spin.



#148

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Posted May 30, 2013 @ 10:55 AM

Exactly. That quote very clearly says we hated season 2 and you best get back to season 1 revengenda business.



#149

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Posted May 30, 2013 @ 11:56 AM

I can see alot of spin in that - 'we sat down with the show' probably meant they had a great big pow wow about what went wrong with S2 and I'm guessing this was where Mike Kelley vented his frustration re 22 eps against 13. I'm sure he stood down so the show could at least continue in some re-set form, but I too doubt he'll be any part of it - 'consultant role' was more PR spin.

 

Of course they're going to have to be professional about it so they used words like 'creative differences' without making it sound too bad.