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1-19: "Why Don't You Love Me" 2013.05.08


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#91

areca

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Posted May 10, 2013 @ 6:27 PM

Rayna and Deacon's relationship is hinged on a life-altering lie, but more importantly so is Maddie's (and she doesn't even  know it).  Rayna may think she is "protecting" Maddie by allowing her to believe Teddy is her bio-father (and that recovering alcoholic Deacon isn't), but the emotional damage resulting from the lie itself will far outweigh the damage caused by knowing her father struggled with addiction.

 

Eh.  I dunno.  It was sensible at the time.  Adults and young adults can cope with exactly this scenario.  I've always wondered if Liv Tyler could sue for copyright infringement for the storyline to be honest.  :P

 

Done and done.


Edited by areca, May 10, 2013 @ 6:31 PM.


#92

shron17

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Posted May 10, 2013 @ 8:10 PM

 

Regarding telling Deacon, it was always wrong to withhold the truth. But at this point... you could honestly argue either way, but I would wait.

 

 

I agree about telling Maddie when she turns 18/graduates.  It would still be hard, but much better than at 13.  I used to want Rayna to tell Deacon before or as soon as they became a couple again.  But after seeing how happy he's been, wanting to be spend time with Rayna's daughters and regretting they didn't have a family, but also intense ("are you trying to kill me?") and on the edge, I think telling him but not Maddie would just break his heart. 



#93

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 6:55 AM

I agree about telling Maddie when she turns 18/graduates.  It would still be hard, but much better than at 13.  I used to want Rayna to tell Deacon before or as soon as they became a couple again.  But after seeing how happy he's been, wanting to be spend time with Rayna's daughters and regretting they didn't have a family, but also intense ("are you trying to kill me?") and on the edge, I think telling him but not Maddie would just break his heart. 

And/or send back to booze and pills, or whatever else he had been addicted to.


Edited by TWoP Nikita, May 11, 2013 @ 12:25 PM.
fixed quote tags


#94

lorra

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 10:33 AM

I would agree that right now, while Maddie is dealing with her parents' divorce is not the right time.  However, waiting until 18 is being overprotective.  I would have the plan to tell her later this year.  

 

It seems to me that Maddie is taking the divorce a bit too hard.  I'm sure most of her friends and school-mates have divorced parents.  Maddie's parents have taken a lot of care with this situation.  They talked to the girls and have made them their priority and are spending much quality time with them.  Now it is a few months later, Maddie should be adjusting.  

 

I'm not sure that it is wise to hide the fact that other people are involved such as Peggy and Deacon.  Because the reality of divorce is that people divorce to be with someone else.  

 

The fact is Rayna is now seeing Deacon.  She cannot be with Deacon and keep this secret.  It's immoral.  Soon, Rayna should tell Deacon.  Then they have to talk to Teddie about telling Maddie.  Teddy doesn't get to tell Rayna that she can't tell Deacon.

 

I would even say, it doesn't matter if Rayna is with Deacon, she still owes him the truth.  She owes it to her daughter too, sooner rather than later.  Deacon and Maddie have a right to know and right to have a relationship with each other, irrespective of Rayna.  


Edited by lorra, May 11, 2013 @ 10:34 AM.


#95

cosmom

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 12:52 PM

And/or send back to booze and pills, or whatever else he had been addicted to.

 

That would seem to be letting the addiction dictate her decision.  I realize that the risk of relapse is always present for someone involved with an addict IRL, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.   And it is artifically saying that the other person, not the addict, has control over whether there is a relapse.  Just like Rayna could not make Deacon stop using, she can't "make" him start using again. 

 

FWIW, I was married to an addict for years and your decisions are often influenced by the addiction, but the decision that is "right" for the addict may not be the decision that is right (or moral) for you or anyone else involved.  It ain't pretty and it is endlessly frustrating.



#96

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 4:10 PM

That would seem to be letting the addiction dictate her decision.  I realize that the risk of relapse is always present for someone involved with an addict IRL, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.

 

Yes, I agree the addiction definitely shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether to tell Deacon.  Although since it's the reason it was kept from him at all, it can't be completely ignored either.  It's just that telling him only and expecting him to act the same around Maddie seems particularly unfair.  I just hope when Deacon finds out he remembers what he said in the limo about knowing Rayna loves him.


Edited by shron17, May 11, 2013 @ 4:11 PM.


#97

MethodActor05

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 4:35 PM

It seems to me that Maddie is taking the divorce a bit too hard.  I'm sure most of her friends and school-mates have divorced parents.  Maddie's parents have taken a lot of care with this situation.  They talked to the girls and have made them their priority and are spending much quality time with them.  Now it is a few months later, Maddie should be adjusting. 

 

Her friends and schoolmates don't have a celebrity mother and a politician father who's divorce was splashed all over the tabloids, however.

 

I agree that it's like Avery and Gunnar have switched places, but while Avery's redemption has felt natural, Gunnar's fall from grace just feels really forced.


Edited by MethodActor05, May 11, 2013 @ 4:38 PM.


#98

Empress1

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 6:53 PM

It seems to me that Maddie is taking the divorce a bit too hard.  I'm sure most of her friends and school-mates have divorced parents.  Maddie's parents have taken a lot of care with this situation.  They talked to the girls and have made them their priority and are spending much quality time with them.  Now it is a few months later, Maddie should be adjusting.  

 

I'm not sure that it is wise to hide the fact that other people are involved such as Peggy and Deacon.  Because the reality of divorce is that people divorce to be with someone else. 

There's no such thing as "too hard" when it comes to stuff like this, IMO. Divorce is, at best, a huge disruption in routine, and it can take a long time to establish a new routine. Plus her parents are both public figures and she literally had to read about speculation about fidelity in line at the supermarket - that adds a whole new layer.

 

Plus she's not even really taking it that hard - she's being sullen and mouthy, but the VAST majority of 13-year-old girls are sullen and mouthy regardless of their home lives. She's not experimenting with drugs or acting out sexually.

 

And people don't always divorce to be with someone else. People divorce because one or both parties no longer wants to be married. My parents divorced when I was 14; neither has remarried, and neither entered into a new relationship until much later. And with Peggy, I could see treading carefully because Maddie knew that Teddy had been unfaithful with Peggy, and I think generally it's wise to wait to introduce a new person to your kids until you're sure they're going to be around for a while. With Deacon, it really is all or nothing (he and Rayna can't really casually date, with all the history between them), so I could see bringing Deacon around sooner.

 

 

I didn't get buying someone a puppy as a gift in the first place.  Unless you know they want a puppy, which Juliette didn't know about Deacon. 

Terrible, selfish idea - totally unfair to the animal (and I'm not even an animal person). You never give someone a pet unless you know for sure they want it. Same goes for people who give kids pets without checking with the parents. Just don't do it.


Edited by Empress1, May 11, 2013 @ 6:56 PM.


#99

Diana8

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Posted May 11, 2013 @ 10:24 PM

 


OmahaMtLion:

It's not a storyline that back-engineers all that well.  Like, sure, at the time, Deacon was a disaster and maybe they didn't think it be good to have him in Maddie's life.  But it's ridiculous that they set some hard-and-fast rule that Deacon and Maddie were never going to be allowed to know the truth.  You'd want to have the flexibility to reassess the situation if Deacon got sober and stayed sober and then you'd treat it like an adoption where the child and birth father would get informed at some point and then it'd be their option to define their relationship.

 

ETA: It's an overall problem with this show, where it just feels like they're winging it all the time and not plotting things out.  Like I assumed Teddy didn't know for sure, maybe he suspected, but he does know and he's always known and they even had some kind of binding arrangement about it?  It's so weird.  It makes it seem like Rayna was some poor pregnant girl, alone in the world, who entered into a marriage of convenience with some respectable man who was willing to take her and her illegitimate child in.  As opposed to, I don't know, she'd ended things with Deacon and had started dating Teddy and had one last fling with Deacon and let Teddy just assume Maddie was his.

 

 

 

I have wondered if Rayna wasn't blackmailed into not telling the Deacon the truth.  I am wondering if perhaps if there is more to the story of Deacon's best friend, Vince, death then we know yet.  I mean Deacon was pretty quick to shut down the reporter that was involved with Vince when she started talking about how she left Deacon and Vince alone together that night.   Could be possible that Deacon could have actually been the one driving the car that night Vince died, instead of Vince and that somehow Lamar had it covered up which prevented Deacon from being charged with vehicular manslaughter and being sent to prison, but also gave Lamar leverage over Rayna to dump Deacon, once and for all, except she was already pregnant with Maddie.   And, if Deacon was drunk and high, he may not remember the details of what really happened that night, so when the cops told him that Vince was driving, he have no reason to question it or to think anything other than he must have talked Vince into driving that night. 

 

Then,  someway along the line Lamar made sure that Teddy found out about Deacon driving the car that night, and then when Rayna  was having second thoughts right after Maddie was born and was going  to tell Deacon the truth, Teddy plays his trump card of if you ever tell Deacon or Maddie the truth, then I might just be distraugt enough to accidently say something about the car accident that shouldn't be said, because Teddy knows he would lose Rayna and Maddie forever to Deacon the minute Deacon were to find out the truth.  The good news for Rayna though is that the statue of limitation in Tennesee to be charge with vehicular manslaughter is 15 years, which means if the truth about the accident was to come out at this point, Deacon couldn't be chared with any crime since it has been more than 15 years since the accident.  Now what the truth about the accident and that Teddy used it basically steal his daughter and the women he loves a way from him might do to Deacon, mentally or emotionally would be a whole other story. 



#100

cosmom

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Posted May 12, 2013 @ 6:30 AM

I am wondering if perhaps if there is more to the story of Deacon's best friend, Vince, death then we know yet.

 

I am convinced Vince does play a big role 14 or so years ago.  Since I don't see how I could still like Rayna if she did not tell Deacon at some freaking point that he was Maddie's Daddy, I've been holding out hope that the Daddy was somehow Vince but you're scenario where Deacon was the actual driver works too.  Until they unequivocally tell me Deacon is the Daddy, I am going to look for alternate possibilities.

 

Plus she's not even really taking it that hard - she's being sullen and mouthy, but the VAST majority of 13-year-old girls are sullen and mouthy regardless of their home lives.

 

Word. 

 

I really liked the scene in the kitchen where Rayna was talking to Maddie about going to the dance with her father and Maddie said she has some project or report for school due.  The little sister piped up with "No you don't" (which may have been followed by the sibling death glare from Maddie).  It was such a nice little infusion of everyday home life.



#101

Blue Stingray

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Posted May 12, 2013 @ 2:47 PM

I have wondered if Rayna wasn't blackmailed into not telling the Deacon the truth.  I am wondering if perhaps if there is more to the story of Deacon's best friend, Vince, death then we know yet.  I mean Deacon was pretty quick to shut down the reporter that was involved with Vince when she started talking about how she left Deacon and Vince alone together that night.   Could be possible that Deacon could have actually been the one driving the car that night Vince died, instead of Vince and that somehow Lamar had it covered up which prevented Deacon from being charged with vehicular manslaughter and being sent to prison, but also gave Lamar leverage over Rayna to dump Deacon, once and for all, except she was already pregnant with Maddie.   And, if Deacon was drunk and high, he may not remember the details of what really happened that night, so when the cops told him that Vince was driving, he have no reason to question it or to think anything other than he must have talked Vince into driving that night.

 

That seems very plausible. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Lamar had something to do with the whole "Deacon will NEVER be told" directive. I doubt Rayna is very afraid of Teddy's reaction if she tells Deacon (though she appears to respect him enough in spite of everything to not want to hurt him). Lamar's reaction... maybe not so much.

 

You know... now that I think of it, I don't recall anyone ever actually saying "Deacon is Maddie's father." That would be a surprise twist for sure! (Much as I ship Deacon/Rayna and love the idea of him having a daughter that he will eventually build a father/daughter relationship with) And I can't imagine who else it would be.

 

I feel like the father has to be Deacon, because it wouldn't be as useful a story device if it was just some random other guy.  Deacon won't feel as betrayed, it won't put a halt to the Deacon-Rayna relationship, Maddie won't be as confused about where to throw her loyalties.

 

OmahaMtLion, I tend to agree. Just speculation since I really can't recall anyone actually saying it's Deacon.


Edited by Blue Stingray, May 12, 2013 @ 5:15 PM.


#102

OmahaMtLion

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Posted May 12, 2013 @ 4:21 PM

I feel like the father has to be Deacon, because it wouldn't be as useful a story device if it was just some random other guy.  Deacon won't feel as betrayed, it won't put a halt to the Deacon-Rayna relationship, Maddie won't be as confused about where to throw her loyalties. 



#103

ggmarie

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Posted May 13, 2013 @ 4:55 PM

 

Jonathan Jackson isn't the first to have a song on the show. Charles Esten wrote "Back Home" and maybe another that I'm forgetting.

 

 

Actually "Back Home" was written by Kyle Jacobs, Lee Brice and Joy Yetton.


Edited by ggmarie, May 13, 2013 @ 4:57 PM.


#104

Midru

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Posted May 13, 2013 @ 9:19 PM

Regarding Vince and his role in Maddie's life, I think the answer is actually quite obvious!

If you look back at ALL the evidence- and I admit it will take many hours- of Vince and his entanglements before his death, there is really only one conclusion...

Vince and Deacon were crazy in love with each other. Rayna tolerated the affair but was extremely jealous. It turns out Vince wasn't really in love with Deacon and threatened to out him, thus ruining his career. Rayna was blackmailed into sleeping with him to keep him quiet (hence the paternity). On that fateful night he died, Vince revealed he was going to out Deacon anyway, prompting a secret plot that only two people know about. Everyone thinks it was a drunken accident, but we all know it was a plot to save their careers and get rid of a traitor...

Hey there's as much evidence for this theory as anyone else's!

#105

mimicall

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 12:34 AM

Hahhaa Deacon and Vince!

 

So, of course Deacon is the father. Given what I have heard so far, I absolutely don't blame Rayna for not telling him because it sounds like he was really messed up... Perhaps he would have cleaned up his act to raise his daughter? Who knows... but she didn't want to take that chance. And for that reason I really like Teddy, he has never held that decision against Rayna or transferred his Deacon anger onto Maddie. In fact, he seems to fully understand why it happened.

 

Deacon on the other hand, what he never picked up ANY similarity between him and his daughter who he clearly sees all the time!

 

Oh and Juliette! Get yourself together!!



#106

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 7:45 AM

I kinda felt bad for Will- he misread a situation but Gunner was being a huge douche.


I don't really feel bad for Will, because I think it was pretty sketchy of him to make a play for Scarlett's boyfriend and then cozy up to her and go to that party with her like nothing had happened.  Interestingly, I think if Will had been a woman, people wouldn't be giving her such a pass for trying to put the moves on Gunnar when she is friends with Scarlett. 

 

That said, I absolutely agree that Gunnar was a huge douche.   



#107

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 9:18 AM

My issue with Deacon giving up the dog is not just that he gave up the dog.  My issue is that he had no problem giving Sue to the vet and Sue actually wanted to go with the vet.  How can someone who claims to watch "Old Yeller" every year on his birthday to see the unconditional love of a dog have formed absolutely no bond with his own dog?  He's had the dog for a while, took Sue on the road with him and spent more time with her than his girlfriend, yet spent all that time just calling him 'the dog'. 



#108

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 12:42 PM

How can someone who claims to watch "Old Yeller" every year on his birthday to see the unconditional love of a dog have formed absolutely no bond with his own dog?

 

If watching "Old Yeller" on his birthday every year meant Deacon wanted the unconditional love of a dog he would have owned a dog long before now.  He could watch the movie every year for any number of reasons--nostalgia of watching it as a child, love for a person he watched it with before, or even just enjoying seeing the boy's relationship with the dog without having to make the necessary adjustments to own his own dog.  I've always been a dog lover and would have a problem if Deacon gave up a puppy he chose to adopt but Sue was an unwanted gift.  Calling for a vet appointment because "someone gave me a defective dog" made it pretty clear he was completely unprepared to take care of the puppy (although it was a great line!) and Stacey took care of Sue at least as much as Deacon did.  Giving him to Stacey was a win-win-win, most of all for Sue.  I just wonder if she'll change his name.  Juliette caused the problem in the first place, not Deacon.


Edited by shron17, May 14, 2013 @ 12:53 PM.


#109

cosmom

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 1:51 PM

Vince and Deacon were crazy in love with each other.

 

Midru - I plus 1 you on this, but just in case they go out again - too funny!

 

Deacon giving the dog to Stacey was a nice parting gift and probably the best for Sue anyway.  I just would never be able to part with a yellow lab puppy myself so it makes me die a little inside.



#110

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Posted May 14, 2013 @ 6:00 PM

They can give Rayna's kids to Stacy, too.  I could not care less when or if Maddie learns her secret.



#111

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Posted May 15, 2013 @ 12:39 AM

 

The fact is Rayna is now seeing Deacon.  She cannot be with Deacon and keep this secret.  It's immoral.

 

 

 

I think if Rayna told Deacon now, it'd be because of this and that's why I wouldn't be a fan of that decision. It'd be driven by the fact that Rayna's now in a romantic relationship with Deacon and doesn't think she can keep that truth from him and not about what is best for Maddie.

 

As for whether or not she should tell them,  I fall into the "not now category" as I don't see the point in adding another life altering disruption to Maddie's life and I don't think she's missing out.  Rayna's not depriving her of a father.  She has a father.  But I realize others have a different perspective as cogent arguments have been made on both sides.  But like I said, that isn't what would be driving Rayna's decision.  It'd be about Deacon which is why her family is reluctant to have them back together.  (Although perhaps there are other reasons as well.) 

 

As for Rayna's agreement with Teddy, I don't think it was a fool's errand.  Some people find out they're the product of affairs.  Many do not.  I could see Teddy making that request in case something like what is happened finally happened.  If Teddy was going all in as a father to Maddie, he didn't want to have to worry that some day Rayna would use the paternity card to pull rank.



#112

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Posted May 15, 2013 @ 7:31 AM

Rayna's not depriving her of a father.  She has a father. 

 

Exactly!  Rayna made that decision so that her baby would have a good father, a father who was able to devote himself to making sure his kids had a good life.  Sure, it's a shame for Deacon that he's in a good place now and missed out.  I think Deacon is great and love that he and Rayna are together now.  But she made that decision for Maddie alone, and if Teddy needed Rayna to promise to keep the secret so he could feel secure in putting his whole heart into being Maddie's father I don't see that as bad thing.  Like it or not Teddy is a huge part of the reason Maddie is growing into the person she is, and Rayna knows that better than anyone.


Edited by shron17, May 15, 2013 @ 7:32 AM.