Jump to content

1-18: "Take These Chains from My Heart" 2013.05.01


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

86 replies to this topic

#61

crankyone

crankyone

    Video Archivist

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 9:02 AM

I hope Juliette goes all Emily Thorne Revengy on Dante's ass and puts a big red "X" over his face!

I really liked the song that Gunnar sang on stage.

#62

cosmom

cosmom

    Fanatic

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 9:18 AM

stillshrimpy - I think you brought up some great points about Juliette's relationships (too many for me to quote). When laid out like you did, I totally see the pattern of her meeting some guy and then rearranging herself to be molded into what she sees as a good fit for him. Doing that with Deacon brought out a previously unknown talent for song writing and not just being a pop tart. Doing that with TeFaux was a misguided notion that the marriage would give her a family and a sense of acceptance that she's lacked. Dante played her, but she's got a predisposition for being vulnerable to that.

While she was rather awful to the band and Deacon this ep, I really wonder if that is atypical for other big music stars? It may be unpleasant to watch, but I would imagine that putting up with the whims of a "star" goes with the territory.

#63

marceline

marceline

    Fanatic

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 10:03 AM

It should be remembered that Juliette was the "victim" of a con man who worked his way in by taking advantage of people at their weakest point, substance abuse in the family. Just because Juliette was rude to Deacon doesn't mean that she deserved this crime to be committed against her. Nor does it excuse her mother. Just a couple of days earlier, Jolene was begging to have Dante back as her counselor. So it wasn't like Jolene knew the truth about Dante and Juliette wasn't listening to her.


Juliette was also the victim of her own bad judgment and inability to learn from her mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I want Dante to get his ass kicked in every way possible but that doesn't change the fact that Juliette's screwed herself over the same way she always does. She falls too hard, too fast and becomes more invested in the fantasy of love than the actual relationship. She disrespected her employees, she disrespected Deacon, and she helped make a clusterfuck of Jolene's recovery. (Say what you want about Jolene, Juliette knew how important Dante was to her mother's recovery but instead demanded that he be her business manager. That's 100% on her.) Honestly, as disgusted as I am with Dante's theft, it's the way he tried to set up Jolene that makes me hope he'll be joining Gunner's brother before the season is over.

#64

jatg61

jatg61

    Couch Potato

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 11:21 AM

stillshimpy, what a very perceptive analysis of Juliette's character. She does tend to be her own worst enemy, but Juliette has the emotional maturity of a child--which is hardly surprising, given her lack of childhood coupled with the trappings of superstardom ensnaring her at a young age. She's searching, however subconsciously, turning from one inappropriate relationship to the next in attempts to find her authentic self, on a journey which is, I think, the overreaching theme of the series.

Agree that Rayna is still not believable as a country superstar- and the problem is not the quality of her singing , it's her lack of swagger!


Rayna James "lack of swagger" is reflective of her experience both as a musician and a business woman in the high-stakes, dog-eat-dog world of entertainment. Whereas Juliette's "swagger" is bravado, the expression of a false confidence she doesn't feel off-stage, Rayna is grounded, been-there-done-that, traveled the ups and downs of a career in show business. She's a survivor, she knows who she is, and that that's good enough, on-stage and off. She doesn't need swagger.

While she was rather awful to the band and Deacon this ep, I really wonder if that is atypical for other big music stars. It may be unpleasant to watch but I would imagine that putting up with the whims of a "star" goes with the territory.


I'm not a music biz insider, but I know a couple people who have regular contact with entertainers, artists, celebrities through their work...my husband had a friend who owned and operated a company which provided and set up sound equipment for artists who traveled to local venues for shows, and according to him the nice ones far outnumber the not-so-nice, at least in his experience. He dealt mostly with artists who were probably past their commercial peak but who maintained a large, loyal following and were still active and highly respected in the industry, like Ricky Skaggs and Waylon Jennings, to name two.

#65

evilmindatwork

evilmindatwork

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 11:50 AM

Honestly whether its typical of stars or not I think the point is that Juliette won't attract good people around her with that type of behavior. She may have success and money (if it doesn't get siphoned off by the Dante's off the world) but people worth being around won't want to be with her. If she doesn't turn off her immediate bitch instinct she will be alone in that big house with people she pays to put up with her.

#66

DearEvette

DearEvette

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 1:46 PM

I get that Juliette is a victim. Which is why I do want Dante to get his comeuppance.

But frankly I just don't like Juliette, so I can't help but be unsympathetic at what I see is a bit of karma. If he had done something like beaten her or raped her, even my dislike of Juliette would be put aside and I'd be feeling massive amounts of outrage on her behalf. But he swindled her out of money and in an amount that by all appearances she could afford. And his ability to do so was a direct result of her own actions in firing her manager and not listening to people she's known longer than a minute only to trust some guy whose bona fides we never see her question. To me this was an object lesson she badly needed. And as a viewer who doesn't really care for the character I am ok with the fact that she got played.

But since I also dislike Dante waaaay more than Juliette, I now want him to get his payback too.

#67

stillshimpy

stillshimpy

    Stalker

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 2:57 PM

Thanks, cosmom and jatg61. cosmom, I thought this was a really good point:

Doing that with Deacon brought out a previously unknown talent for song writing and not just being a pop tart.


It's true that we saw a lot of song-writer Juliette when she was trying to acquire Deacon, and haven't seen as much since.

She does tend to be her own worst enemy, but Juliette has the emotional maturity of a child--which is hardly surprising, given her lack of childhood coupled with the trappings of superstardom ensnaring her at a young age. She's searching, however subconsciously, turning from one inappropriate relationship to the next in attempts to find her authentic self, on a journey which is, I think, the overreaching theme of the series.


Oh wow, good point. jatg61. Gunnar even directly addresses the need for that as an artist.

I think that it makes sense with Juliette. People who are forced into adult roles (such as being the caretaker to a parent) at too young an age, have to be very adaptable, but their natural development does suffer. Most people have guidance in their formation and Juliette had to form herself. It makes sense that she does a lot of "I'll try this persona on...maybe that's how I'm supposed to be."

Plus there would be issues of self-worth at the root of that. I think as much as a person and an adult would know intellectually, "Not my fault. Not everyone gets good parents, but it isn't a personal judgment against me by some higher power" that's difficult to believe emotionally. So she is constantly seeking the approval of someone she thinks she loves.

I don't think it's just pretense or desperation to be loved, I think there would be a genuine quest to try and find the right the fit for how she's supposed to be. The only big positive of a truly dreadful childhood would be in the knowledge of "Well, that can't be the way things are supposed to be done. So I better start from scratch." and most people learn how to treat others from their parents.

It's not that I like Juliette, although I do in most instances, it's that I feel for her. She was honestly asking Dante for help at the start of this. He used her and damaged her more. I wasn't making fun of her use of "Boundary!" it was honestly pitiable to see anyone trying so hard to ...learn how to drive in life, basically, which is what that basically would come down to. She didn't have the right kind of instruction in life as a kid and is trying to form herself into a full fledged person. Varying degree of success, clearly.

Edited by stillshimpy, May 3, 2013 @ 2:58 PM.


#68

lorra

lorra

    Video Archivist

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 3:50 PM

Getting back to the issue of Deacon and her other employees. What we saw was Deacon come over to Juliette to tell her that they were ready to practice or rehearse. At that particular moment, Juliette was listening to what Dante was telling her about the house she planned to buy. So Juliette did not want to jump when Deacon told her to jump. Why was he the one to say when they started? Why couldn't he wait for a few minutes?

Before Dante arrived, Juliette had been sitting there waiting to start. So - is it only to be at the moment Deacon decides ... and that's when they start?

I mean, was it that Juliette kept them waiting for a half hour or an hour, or was going to keep them waiting for a long time? Or did she just need a few minutes to hear what Dante had to tell her? It looked to me like just a few minutes. I don't think that is unreasonable or acting like a diva. It was Deacon who was acting like an asshole.

Edited by lorra, May 3, 2013 @ 3:53 PM.


#69

Kirsty

Kirsty

    Couch Potato

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 5:15 PM

Kudos, stillshimpy! You totally called Dante the con-artist. I'm pleasantly surprised both that his terrible counselling was intentional and ~all part of the plan~, as you guessed, and also that the upstairs cowboy is gay and not secretly two-faced or something. It means the cowboy isn't a dumb villain, and the show was getting Addiction Counselling 101 wrong on purpose.

I love Liam; hope we see more of him. I loved his whole scene with Deacon and Stacy, especially when Liam was mildly sleazy and Deacon went "Nice." And I really enjoyed his duet with Rayna on stage, even though he was hamming it up like a dufus. That actor is adorable. And I liked how that duet served a purpose, what with Deacon's not subtle not happy reaction. Like, he literally couldn't watch.

Rayna's "I love you" was perfect. CB delivered it beautifully and the promos fooled me so I was surprised they went there this week. Deacon's genuinely exasperated response was great too. It seemed natural and not corny.

Poor Juliette in her big, lonely house of not trusting people. Her image in the shattered mirror at the end was about as subtle as Avery's face in the flames was a few episodes back ie. subtle as a ton of bricks. Honestly though, if I was her I still wouldn't have put it together that Dante was scamming me after I saw what the pills were! I wouldn't jump right to my boyfriend played me like a violin so he could rob me blind. I'd be like, "I wonder what Mom was doing with *these* pills" and "Dante isn't picking up; he must be in a meeting"! Idk, it would take a while for it to dawn on me. :)

#70

waterlilies

waterlilies

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 3, 2013 @ 7:22 PM

So Juliette did not want to jump when Deacon told her to jump. Why was he the one to say when they started? Why couldn't he wait for a few minutes?


I'm pretty sure Deacon mentioned that they've been ready for her for awhile and she doesn't seem to care or be bothered at all. Deacon may not be her boss or manager but he's her friend and the least she could do is respect him and not waste his time when he clearly looks fed up. Also, i bet if Juliette was more polite with her answer, he would have been more patient with her.

I mean, was it that Juliette kept them waiting for a half hour or an hour, or was going to keep them waiting for a long time? Or did she just need a few minutes to hear what Dante had to tell her? It looked to me like just a few minutes. I don't think that is unreasonable or acting like a diva. It was Deacon who was acting like an asshole.


I disagree. Needing a few minutes does not excuse her behavior. If she was like, "oh yeah, sure deacon. i just need to finish this conversation" then that would have been reasonable. She basically just shunned him and made him feel useless so I don't blame him for being angry.

#71

giftcard

giftcard

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 4, 2013 @ 1:15 AM

What was the song that was playing while Rayna and Deacon were getting together? Thanks!

#72

Britg

Britg

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 4, 2013 @ 4:15 PM

Yee-haw!

 

Been waiting many weeks for Will to finally plant one on Gunnar (he's been begging to since he first showed up!) - such a shame it was never going to get anywhere.  Very nicely done.

 

Glad we've got rid of slimeball Dante - I know Juliette's young and naive, but she never did have any reason to trust him the way she did.



#73

jatg61

jatg61

    Couch Potato

Posted May 4, 2013 @ 8:21 PM

Rayna's "I love you" was perfect. CB delivered it beautifully and the promos fooled me so I was surprised they went there this week. Deacon's genuinely exasperated response was great too. It seemed natural and not corny.

 


I'm torn.  On the one hand, I'm glad Rayna finally said what the audience has pretty much known all along, and I'm glad Deacon finally said what we've pretty much been thinking all along, but on the other hand, there's just no way this will end well.



#74

stillshimpy

stillshimpy

    Stalker

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 5, 2013 @ 9:22 AM


Glad we've got rid of slimeball Dante - I know Juliette's young and naive, but she never did have any reason to trust him the way she did.

 

Agreed and that's another area where the "You keep saying that word "boundary", but I don't think you really understand what it means..." because it was all kinds of inappropriate for Juliette to allow anyone the amount of access to her literal and figurative business that quickly.  I don't think it was even just about being naive as much as it was not understanding what healthy lines in any relationship are. 

 

It was also just somewhat amusing that she took his word on things like having been a successful business person (which might have been true) and having lost it all (which ought to preclude, "Take control of my business interests!") which somehow added up to a good thing in Juliette's mind.  That's like anti-logic, or logic's kryptonite in terms of thinking. 

 

Kudos, stillshimpy! You totally called Dante the con-artist. I'm pleasantly surprised both that his terrible counselling was intentional and ~all part of the plan~, as you guessed

 

Thanks, Kirsty, but I can't take much credit for that, because instead of saying "I'll bet that he'll turn out to be a con artist..." confidently, I was just sure that they were getting all the therapy and addiction counseling for family members so very wrong that it was a case of "they'd better be setting him up as a con artist, because there's no other way they got that much wrong." 

 

This is sort of cool, so I just wanted to point it out in terms of evidence of some pretty good writing: The opening bid for Juliette to ask Dante for help was that story of her putting out the cigarette and at no point did Dante say that, "You were a child, you were not responsible for your mother and not only were your feelings of anger understandable, they were justified..."  instead they had Dante kind of sublty encouraging Juliette to feel bad about resenting her mother's addiction issue. 

 

It was just a sort of necessary note within the story.  Every time Juliette might have had completely justified "That's bull and I'm not taking responsibility for it for X,Y, Z reasons and furthermore I'm still awaiting the moment you apologize for being a neglectful parent..." Dante shifted a feeling of responsibility onto Juliette so that she'd repress any natural defensiveness as being wrong. 

 

It was kind of brilliant.


Edited by stillshimpy, May 5, 2013 @ 9:33 AM.


#75

SlovakPrincess

SlovakPrincess

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2013 @ 1:05 PM

Stealing her mom's counselor for herself was a terrible thing to do, in any event. Every time Juliette lectured Jolene about boundaries, I wanted to slap her silly - hello, how about the boundaries of not fucking your mom's sobriety counselor and then making the recovering addict feel like an annoying, unwanted third wheel?! I think Juliette really has a subconscious desire to punish her mom instead of help her. Understandable, given what Jolene put Juliette through as a child. But ... still.

 

And yet I completely agree with stillshimpy's analysis on the subject. Eloquently stated!

 

My heart broke for Will at the end. And for Gunnar, too. Their friendship will probably never be the same, and Gunnar really needed it, like having a replacement for his brother. As for Will - I guess his "ladies man" persona is just an act. Can't blame him for having a crush on Gunnar, though!

 

I was kind of hoping for some more Liam and Rayna hotness and fun before the inevitable reunion with Deacon ... I love me some Deacon, but I was enjoying Rayna and Deacon in lighter romances while fighting their connection to each other.

 

As shady as he is, every time Lamar looks sad or remorseful, I want to give him a big hug. As for Rayna's sister - wow, guess she can't be trusted. Although Lamar probably brought that on himself, as well - she learned from the master!

 

And Peggy's lies finally came back to bite her. So many chickens coming home to roost this episode!


Edited by SlovakPrincess, May 5, 2013 @ 1:17 PM.


#76

smiley13

smiley13

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2013 @ 1:37 PM

Juliette deserved what she got and more. She behaved stupidly and now has to pay for those actions. I wish he had taken her for more than he did. I was glad to see Jolene get cleared of wrongdoing this time. She was really just trying to look out for Juliette and Juliette treated her like crap.

 

As much as I loved seeing the Rayna/Deacon reunion, I would have liked to have seen her and Liam for a while first. They were so cute when her manager almost caught them kissing. And then that scene on stage of them singing the Rayna/Deacon song was hot. Rayna has mad chemistry with everyone but Teddy.

 

I hope Gunnar quits being a jerk to Scarlett. I would guess the bromance has ended with Will's unwanted advance, so he needs to get back to being the good guy he started out as. He needs to be standing by Scarlett and supporting her, especially since Scarlett explained to Rayna what happened at the audition when he did not show up.

 

Looks like Teddy could end up being the odd man out. At least he had the sense to dump Peggy, but something tells me ole Peggy isn't going to go quietly.


Edited by smiley13, May 5, 2013 @ 1:38 PM.


#77

jatg61

jatg61

    Couch Potato

Posted May 5, 2013 @ 2:18 PM

I think Juliette really has a subconscious desire to punish her mom instead of help her. Understandable, given what Jolene put Juliette through as a child. But ... still.

 

 

 

Juliette  has been punishing her mother (by basically ignoring her) for a long time already. Now, I rather think Juliette sincerely wants to resolve her lingering issues with Jolene, but their relationship is so fragile that any slip, real or perceived, from Jolene will set their relationship back a couple steps.  Juliette is still guarded where Jolene is concerned, and her instinct for self-preservation kicks in when Jolene screws up (or when Juliette thinks she screws up).

 


My heart broke for Will at the end. And for Gunnar, too. Their friendship will probably never be the same, and Gunnar really needed it, like having a replacement for his brother. As for Will - I guess his "ladies man" persona is just an act. Can't blame him for having a crush on Gunnar, though!

 

 

I feel a little embarrassed to admit this, but I totally did not see that kiss coming.  I've been so focused on Gunnar trying to process his grief that I didn't really consider their relationship from Will's perspective.  It's very clear in hindsight though, and I feel badly for both of them--Will entered his life when Gunnar was vulnerable and needed a close male friend to, if not fill the void left by his brother's death then create a new space where Gunnar could be part of a redemptive brotherly-like relationship.  i hope they can still have that.


 

I was kind of hoping for some more Liam and Rayna hotness and fun before the inevitable reunion with Deacon ... I love me some Deacon, but I was enjoying Rayna and Deacon in lighter romances while fighting their connection to each other.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. I like Liam, but I don't think he was interested in more than a casual fling with Rayna anyway, so I don't expect heavy fallout on that front.  And poor Stacy, who deserves better, caught on to Deacon's unresolved Rayna issues pretty quickly, and I think she'll cut her losses and run like crazy in the opposite direction.  But, depending on how Rayna and Deacon choose to move forward, the fallout from this bombshell reunion could inflict collateral damage in places Rayna and Deacon obviously haven't considered.


Peggy's lies finally came back to bite her.

 

 

 

 

Can she just go away already.  Peggy must be one of the most pathetic, pointless characters on television. (And I don't think much more highly of Teddy, but he must be around for the Maddie baby-daddy fallout and he wins points for obviously loving a child not his own.  Peggy is just plain worthless).



#78

Triant

Triant

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2013 @ 8:55 AM


Looks like Teddy could end up being the odd man out. At least he had the sense to dump Peggy, but something tells me ole Peggy isn't going to go quietly.

 

 I don't think she will, either.  If Maddie and Daphne have any pet rabbits, they better put them in Witness Protection.  Peggy and Stability broke up years ago.



#79

Tatler

Tatler

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 7, 2013 @ 7:12 AM

I don't think she will, either. If Maddie and Daphne have any pet rabbits, they better put them in Witness Protection. Peggy and Stability broke up years ago.

 

Lol!  So true.  I haven't seen Kimberly Williams-Paisley in anything before, but she's certainly got the 'vulnerable, crazy, stalker wrapped in a ball of sweetness' act down pat.

 

Usually I not one for noticing continuity errors - too busy watching the pretty, but 2 things really caught my eye in this episode:

 

1. What happened to Stacey's cute little clutch bag (purse) between walking out the room after Deacon had admitted still having feelings for Rayna and turning round to him in the corridor and putting both, empty hands up and saying something like "I need some time"?

 

2.  The timing around Tandy and Coleman's dinner.  She'd been to see Lamarr and said it was late, both Rayna and Juliette had finished their gigs and then it seemed they were at dinner.  It just struck me as odd.

 

However, I'm only over-analysing because I can't wait til the next ep.....



#80

Nancybeth

Nancybeth

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2013 @ 3:50 PM

I'm kind of feeling badly for Juliette...maybe Liam will take her to St. Lucia.



#81

lorra

lorra

    Video Archivist

Posted May 7, 2013 @ 6:53 PM

I'm kind of feeling badly for Juliette...maybe Liam will take her to St. Lucia.

 

 

Liam was chasing the wrong woman, LOL.  However, Liam is a user and hanger-on, so now that he's left high and dry - I don't care.



#82

smiley13

smiley13

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2013 @ 8:55 PM

Liam is adorable, so please keep him away from that viper Juliette.  She better go get tested after shacking up with Dante who was still with his real girlfriend.



#83

gymrat60

gymrat60

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 8, 2013 @ 1:38 PM

I love Tandy. I don't like Teddy and Peggy, no chemistry there at all. Teddy has no chemistry with Rayna either. Such a waste of a good actor.

 

Scarlett is much better with Avery.



#84

cosmom

cosmom

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2013 @ 1:47 PM

Then their hearts can beat as one! No more love on the run.

 

Really, Potes?  A Billy Ocean earworm?  Shame on you for doing that to me and shame on me for instantly knowing (and admitting) what it was (although for the longest time I thought he was singing Caribou Queen). 

 

Peggy and Stability broke up years ago.

 

Bwah!



#85

Hanahope

Hanahope

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2013 @ 9:45 AM

Was no one else wondering why Juliette was even buying a house?  Didn't she just buy a new house at the beginning of the show?  Its been, what, 6 months, a year at most?

 

Also thought it was a little far fetched that Juliette would completely turn on Deacon after all he did for her with the new songs and such.  Sure, he's not sleepig with her, but she seemed to be getting beyond that.  I find it hard to believe that Dante was that convincing to turn her away from Deacon that much.



#86

stillshimpy

stillshimpy

    Stalker

  • Gender:Female

Posted May 9, 2013 @ 2:39 PM

Was no one else wondering why Juliette was even buying a house?  Didn't she just buy a new house at the beginning of the show?  Its been, what, 6 months, a year at most?

 

Apparently she was renting the second house we saw her in.  Juliette's assistant referred to the landlords returning necessitating a move.



#87

neplusultra

neplusultra

    Couch Potato

Posted May 22, 2013 @ 10:52 PM

I ff'd through Scarlet & Gunner.


LOL, I ff through everything but their storyline. It seems to be very self-contained, so that works out well for both of us.