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4-22: "What's in the Box?" 2013.04.28


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#121

Nanrad

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Posted May 1, 2013 @ 9:12 PM

Milk, but TGW doesn't have to juggle a SA story line. The SA was only relevant because of Peter.

Edited by Nanrad, May 1, 2013 @ 9:15 PM.


#122

Enigma13

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Posted May 1, 2013 @ 9:52 PM

Not that Alicia as she is written now is a prize.

I completely agree, but I am curious about whether this is even intentional. The Kings and JM often say things that make me feel like there is a big gulf between the show that they think they're making, and the show I'm actually watching. If the intent has been to make me dislike Alicia intensely and just not care about all this love triangle rubbish or whether Alicia is happy, then well done. But if they think that they've just made Alicia more 'confident' and that she's 'grown into her own' while still being a character I care about... well, they're wrong.

Mistica, regarding Alicia, Cary and Kalinda's lack of loyalty, I have to disagree. It's business, not friendship. Alicia has given back more than enough to L/G since they first took her on as a pity hire - she brought in Eli's business, keeps Lemond Bishop and Colin Sweeney with the firm, has won basically every case they've given her (implausible though this may seem). Yes, they took Cary back, but they did originally fire him after spending a year pitting him and Alicia against each other for no real reason. And oh right, they offered him partnership and then rescinded it indefinitely (Cary rightly did not believe their 'wait for a year' bullshit). As for Kalinda - she went above and beyond for Will when the SA was going after him, when he did basically nothing to help her out when the SA was trying to put her in jail. Will only got involved after Kalinda and Alicia informed him that he and Diane seemed to be the targets. He knew nothing about crazy husband and didn't actually give her any of the money he said he'd try to get (which IIRC was money she'd already earned, but hadn't been paid).

My point is that I just don't see why these three should be 'loyal' to Will and Diane as bosses. Especially Cary, who has been undervalued by L/G time and time again - when he came back they didn't even give him a desk until Nathan Lane assigned him one. Business-wise, they don't owe L/G anything, and if business warranted it I don't doubt that Will and Diane would fire any one of them. (Well, they might not do it themselves, they'd just get David Lee to do it.)

Peter doesn't need a plan, but they should have a plan. They haven't made any real plans to work on their marriage and occasionally have sex.

Yes. Although I think she and Peter do indeed need a plan. I mean, even the basic things - they need to decide whether they'll live together, and where (giant house or apartment). She should know what his plans are going forward, i.e. whether he's going to try and use the governorship to step up to a bigger office (laughable though this may be). And he should lay things out on the table for her - exactly how many extramarital affairs he's had, whether the corruption allegations against him are true, etc. Though Alicia, in a stunning step backwards, probably prefers to be kept in the dark.

#123

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Posted May 1, 2013 @ 10:23 PM

Enigma, I disagree about Cary, Alicia, and Kalinda's lack of loyalty.

They didn't fire Cary for "no real reason", they fired him because they only had room for one full time associate or whatever. That was explicitly stated in the pilot. Not only that, Cary would have gotten the position if Will and Diane didn't suggest to her to bring in Eli's business, which Alicia reluctantly did. Alicia was not hired out of pity, but rather as a favor to Will who asked David Lee to vote her over his own original pick. Throughout the series, we have seen how great of a lawyer Alicia is, but she has had help during cases in order to win. I'm not just referring to Kalinda, but she has gone to both Diane and Will about strategy because she was lost or unsure as to what to do. She is incredibly valuable, but she wasn't always winning cases on her own. Diane and Will wanted to promote the associates to partners, but it was the other equity partners who rescinded the deal AND wanted to offer them nothing more. I believe that Diane and Will had intentions on keeping their promise. I do believe DID help Kalinda when she was having issues with the SA's office. Remember, when he got suspended, he gave Alicia Kalinda's case file, so she could work on it while he was gone. I believe he has done other things for her as well.This pre-dated the crazy husband and also, how can anyone help Kalinda if she doesn't tell anyone anything?

Cary and Diane may have not been friends, but Will and Alicia are/were. This was the reason why she went to him in the first place to find a job. Will has been shown consistently being a good friend to Alicia and going to bat for her whenever needed. She may not always know about it, but Will has done it. It may be business, but it is also a major betrayal to your friend to take their three biggest clients AFTER they took a chance of a lawyer who hadn't practiced 14 years. He's never held anything against her and has tried to make her as comfortable as possible at L&G.

As I said in another episode thread, Will and Diane would not fire Cary and Alicia if they could prevent it. Alicia is highly valuable to them and Cary as well (but not as much). They would most likely fire less talented lawyers than go to them first. Business wise, it doesn't make any sense to fire one of your best lawyers who represents your top clients.

#124

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Posted May 2, 2013 @ 7:38 AM

I don't think Peter knew about the vote tampering. I'm not sure Eli did either. Didn't the campaign's investigator tell Eli he didn't want to know how he was going to get Peter the extra votes? Originally he said something about a dump truck near a polling site. I also don't think the tampering was city wide. I think that dude put one stuffed ballot box to give Peter the 1000 or so votes they thought he needed to get ahead of Kristeva.

Most people seem to really dislike Peter. I like him. I guess when you start watching this show makes all the difference because since I've been watching Peter has been a handling high pressure situations pretty honestly. Of course given he didn't fix the vote.

#125

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Posted May 2, 2013 @ 12:07 PM

I laughed too, Nanrad, not because Alzheimers is funny, because it's not. Not because there's anything offensive about being old, but because it really surprised me and in his own way, Will was the only person treating her as he would any other witness. Patti and Diane played two sides of the Senior American coin. Patti with the "how dare you be old?" smirky treatment of her eyesight and Diane with the same level of "I'm talking down to you" vibe.

What Will did was outrageous and rude, but he treated her just the same as he might have a 35-year-old witness.


Nice interpretation, stillshimpy <still waving across the top of the GoT Unsullied forum wall; I'm thoroughly book-spoiled and can't post in there, but you guys are fun to read!>. I had mixed feelings about that scene; I liked that it took Will's win-at-all-costs character to its logical extreme to humorous effect without making him flat-out mean, but that woman reminded me so much of my own mother-in-law (right down to the piteous "I want to go home!") that I also cringed.

I'm likewise divided over the loyalty issue, since I also had a "first boss" who gave me a great chance I wouldn't have gotten otherwise (no sex, though!!). I don't think Alicia is required to spend the rest of her professional life with Will, but ... given that they were friends AND lovers, she definitely owes him a good explanation, and even if she gives him one, I can see his being extremely upset (rightly or wrongly) about her plan to go entirely out of his orbit. Especially if that explanation is "I just have to get away from you" when he was so gracious and professional about their break-up.

Edited by CozyKat, May 2, 2013 @ 12:08 PM.


#126

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Posted May 2, 2013 @ 2:22 PM

5. I so badly want Will to move on. Season 4 Will has been a truly sad sack and if nothing else, perhaps he will realise he has absolutely no shot with Alicia and he needs to reclaim his season 1 mojo.

6. In truth, Alicia has treated two people who love her for the most part unconditionally - Kalinda and Will - quite badly this year, (whether through her infernal dithering or her complete lack of attention) and I'm really pleased they are on opposite sides in season 5. I guess dramatically this bodes well for next year.

7. Maybe it's my age (younger than Alicia), or the fact that I'm not married and I don't have children, but I hate the Florick marriage. I think I would hate it less if Alicia loved her husband more obviously, but right now I just see it as a fairly cold partnership.


I agree on all these counts!

I used to love Will and Alicia but I just don't like her enough anymore to want the together, even with all of Will's shadiness. So yes to moving on and please show hire an actress good enough! I haven't liked any of his love interests either because they were miscast or just didn't fit in with the show, or simply didn't have the acting chops. The only one I liked was Giada but then again I like Karen Olivo. She has retired from acting though.

Or show him with his sisters more so you can bring Merritt Wever back. If I'm being honest, I just want MW to take over television because she's awesome.

I want them to bring Audra McDonald as a love interest for him which I think would be interesting since they all went to law school together. But, I think her character was married.

As for Florrick marriage, to me it only about opportunism, not love, trust, loyalty, compatibility, or emotional stability. Which is why I'm sick of it after this many seasons. I understood it in season 1 because he was facing jail time and Alicia believed him to be innocent and didn't want her children's father in jail. And a lot of the case hindered on whether or not she stayed with him due to perceptions of the jury and the public. But now? I find Alicia weak willed and honestly pathetic. It's because she refuses to actually address any of their problems.

#127

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Posted May 2, 2013 @ 4:55 PM

With all of the vote fraud drama in the finale it would have been nice if it was at least somewhat based in the reality of how early voting works in Illinois - at least in Chicago. If I'm interpreting what I saw in the episode correctly, Zach went early voting the day before the election at what appears to be a regular precinct polling place. I am an Illinois/Chicago voter (my polling place is in the back room of the bar around the corner) and my recollection is that early voting stops a few days (not hours) before the election - I checked a brochure from the Illinois State Board of Elections which states that early voting extends through the 3rd day before Election Day. Therefore the whole overnight drama of settling things before the polls open - not happening. Also, early voting takes place in various locations that can accomodate voters from all over the area, not just those in specific precincts, and from what I've read takes place only on the touch screen machines (not paper ballots) so that voters vote in the same races as they would if they voted in their precinct on election day. Therefore there wouldn't be election boxes with paper ballots from early voting in a precinct voting place like the one it appears that Zach was voting at - there aren't any boxes to begin with, and I believe that the votes from the touch screen machines are transmitted directly to the Board of Elections headquarters. Finally, according to the Illinois State Board of Elections brochure, votes cast during early voting are not counted until after the polls close on election day. I realize that this is just a television show, but...

One thing it seems that they did get right - the paper ballots were the type that we used here in Chicago where you use a marker to complete the bar of the candidate you're voting for.

#128

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 8:18 AM

Nanrad - I should have been clearer; my 'no real reason' was referring to the contrived Cary vs Alicia competition the firm had in season 1. As in, there was no real reason for them to hire both of them and then outright say that one of them will get fired. If you only have the money for one associate, just hire one associate. I maintain that on balance Cary and Kalinda don't owe L/G their continued employment, but reasonable minds can differ. :)

I do agree with you that it's a shitty thing for Alicia to leave L/G and take some of its biggest clients with her. It's an especially awful thing for her to do to Will, who, like you said, has had her back and let her run roughshod over his own life, never saying a word about how she's dicking him around. But I also think that she doesn't really owe LG as a wider entity, if that makes sense - in the time that she's been there, she has made them a lot of money, she has done good work, she has raised their profile since she's the SA's wife. I don't think she's beholden to stay with them because they gave her a job and provided her with the training that they needed her to have, to do her job well and make them money. She can be grateful for that initial help and move on -- so long as she's willing to face the consequences, i.e. the total destruction of her relationship with Will. But I'll admit part of this is my own bias against 'corporate loyalty', which in real life only ever seems to go one way, from employee to employer.

Ultimately I don't even think Alicia considered the loyalty issue - she made this choice in her usual style, i.e. she was pushed into it suddenly by some extreme emotion/catalyst. I can't tell if she hasn't thought about the effect this would have on Will, or whether she did consider it, but didn't care enough to stay at LG. Either one fits with her current "Alicia Florrick first, fuck everyone else" mindset.

I don't think Peter knew about the vote tampering. I'm not sure Eli did either. Didn't the campaign's investigator tell Eli he didn't want to know how he was going to get Peter the extra votes?

Eli saying that was just his way of maintaining plausible deniability should it ever become a legal issue - "no, one one every said ANYTHING to me about vote tampering, I never authorised vote tampering!" And Peter would be able to say the same thing. But I'm sure that Eli knew the general gist of things, and Peter probably did too - they're the ones running the campaign, they probably just say everything in code, like "we'll do what we have to to win" (implied: felonies included). I mean the second that guy said "are you sure you want to know", Eli would have known that he was planning something fishy and at least borderline illegal.

chicagofan, asking this show to get the details of the real world right is apparently too much. They constantly screw up little details like this. It's like the writers live in a Google-free world.

#129

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 9:40 AM

I think when it comes to Cary and the fourth years, they have a legitimate reason to bolt, because the partners did make offers to them and then withdrew them out of what really adds up to greed. It was a mistreatment of the fourth years and their reaction is understandable. When employer proves to you "You will never matter to me as a human being" then it might be best to get out of Dodge. I don't fault them for that.

I particularly don't fault Cary who has been sort of spectacularly jerked around by the firm and has consistently been an asset while there. It's kind of a fuzzy line for loyalty though because Cary should have been a score for any firm, and after he got over his juvenile "Alicia did me wrong" stuff, he's been as solid as Alicia. He seems over his petulant reaction and is now one of my favorite characters.

Anyway, he needs to make his own way in the world and the show was pretty overt in how badly Lockhart Gardner was willing to treat him. They stuck him in a storage room as his office. It's unsurprising that he decided to pack up his skills and head elsewhere with them before he got moved into the actual trash room.

Alicia it is a slightly different story. She and Will can't really work together. Will did her a great favor, but it was based partially in having been at least a little in love with her for their entire adult lives he is very unlikely to find love and fulfillment with Alicia right there. It's hard to move on from someone you see everyday and they just don't have the same feelings about each other (as near as I can tell, maybe it is that Alicia sincerely doesn't want to find out if they do...but that's a valid choice too).

Nice interpretation, stillshimpy <still waving across the top of the GoT Unsullied forum wall; I'm thoroughly book-spoiled and can't post in there, but you guys are fun to read!>. I had mixed feelings about that scene; I liked that it took Will's win-at-all-costs character to its logical extreme to humorous effect without making him flat-out mean, but that woman reminded me so much of my own mother-in-law (right down to the piteous "I want to go home!") that I also cringed.


<Waves right back! Thank you! We have fun in there> I agree, CozyKat, my grandmother is actually still alive and I do call her Nana, so I was flinching all over the place. My grandmother is very sharp, but if I saw anyone even come close to treating her like that, then I think I would discover some heretofore unexplored "Nana Menacer Ass-Kicking Skills" . Honestly it would be case, "Hey, would you hold my purse while I kick.his.ass? Thanks!" before descending like the wrath of at least a demigod.

But the show does go for satire sometimes and I think that scene was exactly that. Just taking the "How far and how absurd will this all get?" into the stratosphere, because in a real-world, Will would not have gotten away with that and only in a broad comedy does it go that far. They didn't even crank the absurdity meter to 11 there, they broke the dial, had the machine burst into flames and then rise from the ashes like a cartoon phoenix to continue on.

Edited by stillshimpy, May 3, 2013 @ 9:42 AM.


#130

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 1:10 PM

Nanrad - I should have been clearer; my 'no real reason' was referring to the contrived Cary vs Alicia competition the firm had in season 1. As in, there was no real reason for them to hire both of them and then outright say that one of them will get fired. If you only have the money for one associate, just hire one associate. I maintain that on balance Cary and Kalinda don't owe L/G their continued employment, but reasonable minds can differ. :)

I do agree with you that it's a shitty thing for Alicia to leave L/G and take some of its biggest clients with her. It's an especially awful thing for her to do to Will, who, like you said, has had her back and let her run roughshod over his own life, never saying a word about how she's dicking him around. But I also think that she doesn't really owe LG as a wider entity, if that makes sense - in the time that she's been there, she has made them a lot of money, she has done good work, she has raised their profile since she's the SA's wife. I don't think she's beholden to stay with them because they gave her a job and provided her with the training that they needed her to have, to do her job well and make them money. She can be grateful for that initial help and move on -- so long as she's willing to face the consequences, i.e. the total destruction of her relationship with Will. But I'll admit part of this is my own bias against 'corporate loyalty', which in real life only ever seems to go one way, from employee to employer.

Ultimately I don't even think Alicia considered the loyalty issue - she made this choice in her usual style, i.e. she was pushed into it suddenly by some extreme emotion/catalyst. I can't tell if she hasn't thought about the effect this would have on Will, or whether she did consider it, but didn't care enough to stay at LG. Either one fits with her current "Alicia Florrick first, fuck everyone else" mindset.


Perhaps they weren't being paid as much that first year? Didn't Alicia get a raise in money and a new office? I don't really disagree all that much about Kalinda and Cary.

I do understand what you mean by not owing anything to LG as a wider entity. My problem was simply with her treatment of Will. She doesn't have to stay with them, but I feel that she does owe Will more than what she left him with. Not even saying she had to stay, but to take their top clients??? And there were some other things as well.

It really is Alicia Florrick first, which is why I don't see the treatment of her as all that bad. I'm fine with her wanting to start her own law firm, but I don't believe she has been mistreated there. She may have disliked how the law firm conducted their business, BUT overall, I believe they treated her well (while not giving her that much preferential treatment)

#131

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 1:22 PM

I have a question for those with experience in law firms. The proposed name of the new firm is Florrick, Agos and Associates. Does that mean the 4-years that moved from Lockhart/Gardner will be Associates? Should the firm not be named Florrick, Agos and Partners?

#132

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 6:23 PM

It is likely that Alicia and Cary are the only named partners, the other fourth years are partners and the associates would refer to the associates that they will have to hire for all the partners (named and not named). Just like there are many more partners than the named partners at Lockhart Gardner.

I assume Cary is named because it was his idea and Alicia is named because of the prominence of her name for marquee value. The others would have had to agree with that, but that's my best guess.

#133

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 8:45 PM

In real life, the firm would probably be Florrick, Agos, Smith, Jones, This & That (just as it was Stern, Lockhart & Gardner when that firm started). There are law firms with longer names. But for the sake of TV brevity, these partners all agreed to subsume their lawyerly egos to their more-or-less peers on the letterhead and signage.

#134

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Posted May 3, 2013 @ 10:29 PM

Most big firms have trended to smaller monikers, it's the in thing. The longer the names, the lesser the prestige. Hence I can by the Florrick Agos moniker. Naming-rights aside, the all important thing is how they divide the voting powers and profit-sharing; we've already seen arguments among equals there....

You are probably right in that even if it wasn't the new norm, it would be the tv shorthand.

Edited by pennben, May 3, 2013 @ 10:32 PM.


#135

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Posted May 4, 2013 @ 1:55 AM

My hope for next season is that Alicia finally gets her sh*t together and goes back to the being the character I was rooting for in S1 and S2. Joining Cary is a good thing if it means that a) she wants to separate herself from Will, both personally and professionally and b) as a named Partner, she takes control of her career and realises she can take control of the rest of her life too.

I don't believe that she really loves Peter, but stays with him helps keep life nice and tidy for her and the kids.

#136

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Posted May 4, 2013 @ 5:53 PM

My main question was "Is there supposed to be 30,000 ballots in that box?"  Does anybody have any idea on how much that weighs?



#137

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Posted May 4, 2013 @ 9:17 PM

 

 I was surprised Peter won though.

 

How could this be a surprise?  We are talking the state of Illinois, one of the bluest in the nation.  I would have been surprised if he lost.  At least having him win lends believability.



#138

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Posted May 6, 2013 @ 6:23 PM

I love Matt Czuchry. Always have.

Me too. I have been waiting 4 years for them to use his character properly and I damn well hope I get payoff in Season 5. 

 

I'd be more than happy to see season 5 focus on Alicia & Cary & Associates with Robyn (yeah love her too). If only there was a way to keep Gary Cole (Kurt) and lose Diane. 

 

I imagine there will be quite the implosion at Lockhart & Gardner. Poor Will stuck with David Lee. 

 

I do love Alicia's mom, Veronica (Stockard Channing). She brings some much needed levity to this show. She can stay. 

 

I ship Will and Alicia but after 4 seasons I'm beginning to question my own sanity. 


Edited by Gijenny1, May 6, 2013 @ 6:24 PM.


#139

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Posted May 7, 2013 @ 7:34 PM

This finale was just a huge relief for me, when I saw Cary I breathed thank god, not surprised it happened but surprised by how it happened. I love Kalinda but I love this show and Lockhart Gardner more, can't imagine LG without Kalinda prancing around in those boots, with the camera lingering on her just a bit through glass walls. There was always a shot of her just walking by.
I would have been pleased if Cary took Kalinda with him but the salary negotiations had me convinced that she only just wants to feel to valued, not necessarily dissatified unlike Cary and the other fourth years.

#140

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Posted May 8, 2013 @ 10:50 PM

'just watched.

 

* hate the "beat the clock" themes... liked the 4-yr associate story line.  Couldn't care less about the election/votes drama.  And Alicia may be so proud of Zack, but man is he tedious with his angelic goodness.  Blech.  The only spot where I thought the election story was good when Alicia had Eli confirm they would lose. 

 

*  still do not see any exposition that explains why Alicia wants to be with Peter.  I get the "stability" angle many favor, but he's the least stable thing, and not necessarily great for his family.  He's a control freak - look at what he did to his mom in this ep (and I'm no Jackie fan)... and the fact that he could not own the actions of the campaign guy is beyond me.  He stood to personally benefit from criminal behavior, and refused to do the right thing.  He's a slime... I know Alicia didn't know of these things, but it's not like she's dull or slow-witted....He gave her a ring when he needed her to go after Krestiva...

 

*  but yet couldn't care if she's ever with Will.  The scene at her apartment was tense... but when it was Carey I was 8 million times more thrilled than I was when I thought Will was coming...

 

*  speaking of slow-witted, how is Robin not onto Kalinda?  Confiding in Kalinda her career options, when Kalinda is on a good day, slightly less than hostile to Robin. 

*  and Kalinda - apparently you are the only one allowed to play games?  Kalinda basically over-played her hand with both Carey and Will... never force someone to tell you they like you... you maynot get the answer you want.

 

Here's to a season with a new law firm, and more of the wack-job who kills his wives!



#141

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Posted May 18, 2013 @ 9:13 AM

The reappearance of annoying Patti Nyholm was made worthwhile by her exchange with Will.  He looked incredulously at the baby she was holding and asked, "Is that the same kid?"  Her response was, "I have no idea, I've lost count".  Hee!



#142

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Posted May 21, 2013 @ 9:47 AM

he didn't even come back to her with a counter-offer from the 5% of profits thing - he just went straight to Robyn.

 

I'm definitely going to have to rewatch, because Cary did come back to Kalinda and explained how they couldn't meet her offer--in a year, probably, and she walked away huffily. I'm not even going to touch the whole 5% of the profits bullshit, because Kalinda is NOT a LAWYER. She's not ENTITLED to any profits.

 

I don't blame Cary for making an offer to Kalinda. Kalinda can just suck it.

 

As for Peter and the whole voter fraud thing--I don't think he knew. And I also don't think he asked Will to keep quiet about it--when Will told him he would lose if it came out, Peter said "then I lose." He didn't say, "Do whatever you can to hide it/keep it from coming out." Sure, he left it up to Will to decide, but I don't think that made Peter guilty of voter fraud.

 

And for all his being smart, Peter was totally clueless about what his handlers and people were doing behind the scenes. He didn't know shit. I forget his name, but Skip Sudduth who played the guy who did the fraud thing? I'm pretty certain he kept Peter in the dark about what he was doing.

 

And I also agree with Enigma and others that neither Alicia or Cary need to be loyal to Lockhart and Gardner for the rest of their fucking careers. Both proved their loyalty by winning the cases they did, and the business they brought to the firm.

 

And I certainly didn't see Alicia and Cary stealing clients--Sweeny owns the building Cary is looking to rent for his new offices--like Cary told Kalinda--Sweeny came to HIM and not the other way around. We haven't seen Alicia steal or take any clients--just her telling Cary that she was in. I mean, that was the season finale, right?

 

If there is a non-compete clause, you can bet your ass the Kings will ignore all that just to show draaaama. Every single legal consultant on this show needs to be fired. They don't even try to get it right. It's like an alternate universe the Kings have created for these characters.

 

And since I fully expect the Kings to ignore what is legally correct, and if the other big clients leave because they want Alicia/Cary to represent them, then Alicia and Cary can't be blamed for that. I really doubt they'd say, 'sorry, but we can't represent you because it would be like stealing your business from Lockhart Gardner, and we can't do that because it would be disloyal." [emphasis on heavy sarcasm]

 

We also don't know if Peter has a plan because the fucking showrunners have never, ever given us scenes where Peter and Alicia actually talk about their relationship or what either of them want or don't want. The  sex doesn't count, and neither does the "I love yous" or "don't ever hurt me again."

 

I don't trust the Kings or any of their writers to fix what they have FUBARed, to be honest.



#143

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 11:11 AM

Late to the party here...but my entire WTF with this episode began in the first few moments. If Chicago did indeed have some kind of early-voting session, then how on earth was Zach Florrick the ONLY person there?! I would imagine that in a city of that size, there would be MANY people taking advantage of that sort of thing. And, how ridiculously convenient that when there was any possible fraud to be seen, it was the candidate's son to witness it?

 

Then, when the whole thing went before a judge, Candidate's Son was the witness, with Candidate's Wife the lawyer? Why on earth did no one even mention that this whole situation is a bit cozy?



#144

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 11:39 AM


Late to the party here...but my entire WTF with this episode began in the first few moments. If Chicago did indeed have some kind of early-voting session, then how on earth was Zach Florrick the ONLY person there?! I would imagine that in a city of that size, there would be MANY people taking advantage of that sort of thing. And, how ridiculously convenient that when there was any possible fraud to be seen, it was the candidate's son to witness it?

 

Then, when the whole thing went before a judge, Candidate's Son was the witness, with Candidate's Wife the lawyer? Why on earth did no one even mention that this whole situation is a bit cozy?

 

Silly SnarkySheep, trying to apply logic to this show! Haven't you learned anything these past 2 years?



#145

Nanrad

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Posted Jun 15, 2013 @ 5:40 PM

As for Peter and the whole voter fraud thing--I don't think he knew. And I also don't think he asked Will to keep quiet about it--when Will told him he would lose if it came out, Peter said "then I lose." He didn't say, "Do whatever you can to hide it/keep it from coming out." Sure, he left it up to Will to decide, but I don't think that made Peter guilty of voter fraud.

Peter is not guilty of voter fraud, but he isn't faultless either. I've only seen the episode once, but when Will came to Peter about the fraud, Peter's concern was about whether or not Will was trying to take his wife, not the fact that someone in his office tried to rig and election. Peter was only accepting loss as an option because he would have lost Alicia as a political piece (that's my interpretation). 



#146

John Potts

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Posted Jun 22, 2013 @ 7:52 AM

So at last, we get a resolution of the Peter/Will... apparently. She decides to piss them both off and choose Cary, or something. Which might be interesting - if I believed we won't be revisiting the whole triangle next Season.
 
I thought the court was a bit ludicrous because I didn't understand why Team Florrick was so sure that it was Chandler who was fixing the election and why they were having midnight meetings to fix it. The 2000 Presidential Election had legal cases that dragged on for days after the Election and while obviously it's better to resolve things before the election itself, there was no real "need" for midnight court sessions. And why did the judge announce the count? Surely justice is (meant to be) blind - it would have been funnier if Team Florrick had successfully argued to have the ballots excluded only for it to emerged that they would have given them a bigger margin of victory.

 
Nanrad Peter is not guilty of voter fraud
 

Even if he knew nothing about it, it's clear that people under him (Eli & the campaign agent) are at least prepared to break the law. He's the man at the top, so he's responsible and he doesn't get a pass any more than the fact that he gets a pass when Will points out that it was his people that were shipping votes (which he seemed oddly ambivalent about - I would have loved it if he'd told Will that he was bound by Attorney/Client privilege and couldn't divulge information prejudicial to his client's case*). It may be shady to sleep with another man's wife but you broke the law - you're not on the moral high ground there!
 

 
Elle45 Where is her loyalty?
 

 
Loyalty is a two way street. Yes, Will got her the job but she's repaid them with being an awesome lawyer (I believe she's lost one case - and that was a Phyrric Victory for the other side). "Corporate Loyalty" tends to mean (IRL, not just onscreen) "We can treat you like shit and you have to just take it." Which is why:

 
Newnhamite  I adore the vile David Lee.
 

I like him too, but mainly because he expects everyone to be as mercenary as he is. I'm sure if he wants to move against Cary's firm, he won't decry their lack of loyalty, he'll sue (I don't know for what, but I'm sure he'd find something).
 
And as for Kalinda, I have little sympathy - you tried to get a bidding war going between Carey and Will and you priced yourself too high. I would have thought she'd be "Bollocks - overplayed my hand. Thems the breaks!" She's always been mercenary, I didn't think she'd be hypocritical in condemning other people for acting the same.

 

And I thought this was great:

Eli: I love horror movies.
Alicia
: Why?
Eli
: Because they're awesome!

...since it was a great humanising moment for Eli (was that actually Hostel he was watching?)

 

 
* I don't know how far attorney client/privilege goes in covering you from illegal activity told you by somebody other than the client


Edited by John Potts, Jun 22, 2013 @ 11:02 AM.


#147

Nanrad

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Posted Jun 24, 2013 @ 6:04 PM

Even if he knew nothing about it, it's clear that people under him (Eli & the campaign agent) are at least prepared to break the law. He's the man at the top, so he's responsible and he doesn't get a pass any more than the fact that he gets a pass when Will points out that it was his people that were shipping votes (which he seemed oddly ambivalent about - I would have loved it if he'd told Will that he was bound by Attorney/Client privilege and couldn't divulge information prejudicial to his client's case*). It may be shady to sleep with another man's wife but you broke the law - you're not on the moral high ground there!

I also said that he wasn't faultless either, which I meant as in, since he knows about it, he should do something about it. Him choosing to not make a choice, is still a choice and not the correct one.



#148

DisneyBoy

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Posted Jul 4, 2013 @ 7:36 PM

I finally caught up with the final episodes of this season, and I'm amazed at how many new storylines have been crammed in.  Not sure if that was a good thing, though, as several have been left hanging...

 

I'm not sure where things stand with:

 

-Diane's promotion to judge (did that go out the window the second she said she didn't understand the criticisms of Will?)

-Kalinda and Cary (I'm glad they didn't push their romance following that whole husband plot, but still...are they moving forward on this?  I can never tell anymore)

-Alicia and Will (obviously they chose not to show her chatting with him to leave us guessing, but their potentially starting up again has been teased but not done in a believable way.  I think Will would have made his peace with not having her by now.  She clearly is being dramatic and leading him on.)

-Diane's wedding (thought we'd get that by season's end)

-Granny's mental state (it was a big part of last season's finale, and the start of this year, but vanished as a SL and wasn't much hinted at here).

-Grace's sketchy boyfriend (are they having sex?  What's up with them?)

 

 

Alicia joining up with Cary makes sense.  It kills the scandal sure to erupt when she and Will get together again and go public.  She wouldn't be dating her boss if she's at another firm!  So yay for Alicia for figuring that out.  Plus, she and Cary have always made a good team.

 

I thought Will would make a real move of some kind (not just "lets talk"), but I don't think he even knows about the vow renewal.  An odd choice.

 

I was especially confused by the resolution to the video about ballot stuffing in court.  They had the laptop with them, so...did they share the evidence with the judge and win anyway??  I don't get it at all.

 

I like that the writers didn't mind giving us serious issues about Peter's morals regarding winning.  He 's clearly a cheater when push comes to shove...although I was also confused about the polling numbers stuff.  Was his win so sizeable that that one case of fake votes wasn't going to affect things?

And why would his aid go to those kinds of extremes?  His first plan, about blocking access to the voting locale, was silly and public...but this?  This went to court!  How could that guy not have panicked the second he heard about Peter's son going to court over the fake box?  And how did he MAKE a fake box stuffed with ballots on short notice?  And why would he have gone there, knowing if it was revealed, Peter's career would be completely dead forever??  That's a scandal he wouldn't come back from.

 

I seriously hope Elsbeth joins up with Cary and Alicia, or at least get a lot of spotlight next year.

 

It was a good last couple of episodes, but now I'm left wondering where we'll pick up next year.  The days following Peter's win?  Do we still have a trip to Hawaii on the table, or are we jumping past that?

I assume everyone here watches Mad Men.  Was it strange for any of the rest of you to see Granny planning a cruise with her Man Maid?  I'm pretty worried she'll be taking a swim :(  Hope I'm wrong there.


Edited by DisneyBoy, Jul 4, 2013 @ 7:38 PM.