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#61

MarkHB

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 1:47 PM

I'm a relatively new Doctor Who viewer, and I'm a bit confused over the Tardis' ability to generate an avatar to communicate in this episode. I thought it was established in "The Doctor's Wife" that there was no method for the Tardis to communicate verbally, yet that seems to have been set aside in this episode... Did I miss something, or is this a new development?

I think the Doctor said that he was going to build something, following "The Doctor's Wife." Also, the avatar we saw seemed to be more of a status-readout app, rather than a genuine interface to the TARDIS AI. It certainly wasn't as eloquent as Idris, although Neil Gaiman wasn't writing for it, either.

#62

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 1:51 PM

Ah, I see... personally, I'm against the Tardis being able to fully communicate with the Doctor - it would almost defeat the Doctor's need for a Human companion.

#63

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 1:56 PM

Did I miss something, or is this a new development?


Welcome to the Moffat era when rules only apply when the script wants them to. In previous eras the TARDIS could only play recordings, answer the most basic questions, or basically communicate what a trained pilot could read on the console.

Moffat has dispensed with numerous old rules about its operations, not to mention various laws of time travel itself, only to reinstate them soon after.

#64

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 2:26 PM

Well, unlike all the other Clara episodes, I actually managed to not fall asleep during this one at least. Unfortunately, I think that was largely due to the strength of the guest stars Dougray Scott and that lovely actress (whose name I don't know but she was also very good in Call the Midwife). I'm just not feeling this season or Clara for some reason, though admittedly I was largely bored last year as well so it isn't just Clara that is the problem for me. It's such a contrast to how much I loved and obsessed over this show for the first five seasons of the new Who.

ITA that it's irritating that she's rescued the Doctor so much in her short tenure. I hated that she got the Tardis to go to the pocket universe especially considering how much of a huge deal it was for Rose to get in to the Tardis to go back and save Nine.

Fringe fan here, casting about for something else to obsess over...

Dixiegirl, if you're just getting into Who, I'd recommend starting at season 1 of the new series. Netflix has the earlier seasons available for streaming (as does Amazon, for free if you're a Prime member). IMO, the current season doesn't hold a candle to Fringe, but thenI would say very few shows could, at least compare to Fringe at it's peak.

Edited by Cynic, Apr 22, 2013 @ 2:28 PM.


#65

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 2:28 PM

I liked this episode a lot. Emma Grayling and Alec Palmer were great characters (really well played, too and the actors had chemistry) and I enjoyed how it switched from a ghost story, to a rescue story, to a love story. I always like it when the monsters are proven to have their own identities, wants, needs, etc. (not evil at all) I loved the look of the pocket universe so much that the inconsistencies of how time moved didn't bother me. (It should be like the year 5 billion and the sun consuming the earth by the time the Doctor got back, I think)

I'm a relatively new Doctor Who viewer, and I'm a bit confused over the Tardis' ability to generate an avatar to communicate in this episode. I thought it was established in "The Doctor's Wife" that there was no method for the Tardis to communicate verbally, yet that seems to have been set aside in this episode... Did I miss something, or is this a new development?


I only watched the episode once because I thought it was so terrible--but in "Let's Kill Hitler," didn't the Doctor ask the Tardis for an interface and it threw out Rose, Martha, and Donna? (But he rejected speaking to any of them because they made him feel guilty?) Not sure if I'm remembering that episode properly, though.

#66

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:08 PM

People like that are usually more settled and have commitments and lives that keep them from just being able to take off on a whim and travel the universe.

It could be a person who's lost everything, who runs away from themselves, a scientist who'd leave everything for opportunity like this: many things. Doctor could end up with them for any reason, maybe reluctantly in the beginning. Certainly someone more experienced (say, ex-military) could realistically even be more help than some fish out of water girl, and if they died or were somehow terribly fucked which happens a lot with Doctor's companions, they at least had lived a little before that. I'd be less hesitant to drag someone mature who knows what they sign up for with me than I would some chick with IQ like that of a schoolgirl. As is, Doctor reminds me of Peter Pan from this new dark book version of him.

Anyway, the real reason for companion's age and maturity is that they need to appeal to demographics and give us a viewpoint character, I get that. But at this point I don't think audience needs viewpoint character and demographic could swallow something more sophisticated. Donna was already a slight departure, and she were pretty good. I know I am ready for a character who has their own backstory.

Clara's not so bad, but somehow I don't want to be stuck for long with her, she still doesn't feel like real person.

#67

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:28 PM

It had a voice interface thingy in Letís Kill Hitler. I donít think the avatars it projects have the actual personality or intelligence that Idris had.

#68

Tippi Blevins

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:51 PM

Recaplet is up!

#69

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:55 PM

You know I am not sure that the theme is so much that the Doctor always needs to be saved so much as the theme of the Tardis in danger.


Which brings up a question I'm starting to wonder about: Did we ever learn exactly why the Tardis exploded in Series 5? I know everything got fixed/reset with The Big Bang, but I can't remember a definite answer as to why.

I thought it was established in "The Doctor's Wife" that there was no method for the Tardis to communicate verbally, yet that seems to have been set aside in this episode... Did I miss something, or is this a new development?


I'm far from an authority, but while the actual Tardis can't communicate, avatar-like programs aren't new for it (one was used in the last year or two, basically cycling through the reboot's companions until settling on Amelia). I don't know how different this particular instance is, though, if it's at all different.

Edited by drmka9, Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:55 PM.


#70

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 3:58 PM

Hi, Cynic!

Totally in agreement with you about starting from the beginning of NuWho... I should've clarified. I'm a Who fan from way back (Five was my first Doctor, although I've also watched most of Three that's available, all of Four). Stopped watching after Davison, just couldn't abide the next few. Came back during the Tennant era and got caught up with Eccleston and the early 10 eps fairly quickly, and have followed Matt Smith from the beginning of his 'term'.

I guess I've always considered myself a 'casual' Who fan... as opposed to being obsessed - ie, analyzing every episode, quoting dialogue, watching over and over, reading every scrap of information. Not that I've given that up on Fringe... but I need fresh meat, so to speak.

In the past, I would've said "oh, the Doctor dropped his bowtie... guess he found it somewhere along the way" and not paid it any mind afterwards... but I've watched that segment several times trying to see what I missed. Probably nothing, it probably IS just continuity... but I don't trust Moffit, lol!

Anyway, I'm enjoying everyone's observations and filling in some of the things I've overlooked in the past.

(Oh, and you sound like a Fringe fan yourself... let me commend your good taste!)

#71

leefonthewind

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 4:53 PM

In the past, I would've said "oh, the Doctor dropped his bowtie... guess he found it somewhere along the way" and not paid it any mind afterwards... but I've watched that segment several times trying to see what I missed. Probably nothing, it probably IS just continuity... but I don't trust Moffit, lol!


I rewatched that section with special focus on the bowtie, and there's only one minor continuity error in the show. He goes into the pocket universe with the bowtie on, and while he and Hila are running through the house he uses it to secure a door. When Hila is rescued and Emma closes the gateway, the house disappears and the Doctor is shown picking up the bowtie from the forest floor (where presumably it fell when the house faded away). His collar is open for the next few shots as he's running from the creature, with only one exception: when the creature is shown right behind him, there's a brief shot of him turning around with the bowtie on and then he goes back to the open collar. I'm imagining this was an editor's room mistake, because there's plenty of footage of him turning around in that clearing before he goes into the house and they likely shot all the woodsy footage on the same day, so I could see how it would be easy to mix up before-house and after-house shots while splicing the sequence together. For the rest of the chase scene, the bowtie is absent as it should be, and it only reappears once he's back safely with Emma and Alex and has presumably had some time to tidy himself up.

That was probably way more than anyone wanted to know about bowties.

#72

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 6:15 PM

Does the TARDIS know something about Clara that we don't? Could it be that Clara will be the cause for the fall of the 11th?

#73

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 9:44 PM

Maybe she made/makes the TARDIS explode. And since the TARDIS exists in all time, she knows that.

#74

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 10:06 PM

Which brings up a question I'm starting to wonder about: Did we ever learn exactly why the Tardis exploded in Series 5? I know everything got fixed/reset with The Big Bang, but I can't remember a definite answer as to why


Because. The standard NuWho explanation. There was some suggestion at the end of that season that the Silence blew it up but I don't think Moffatt had actually worked out who they were because everything that happened in the next season made it clear the Silence had zero motivation to destroy the entire universe.

I was hoping it would be revealed that the force that blew it up did so because it knew the actions that followed were necessary for the Doctor to eventually overthrow the Silence and that's why it said "Silence will Fall". Maybe a Guardian or some other force.

Does the TARDIS know something about Clara that we don't? Could it be that Clara will be the cause for the fall of the 11th?


The TARDIS by definition knows everything that has or could possibly happen so it's possible. I'd like that explanation, actually. Although, as someone upthread noted, the TARDIS didn't have a problem with Turlough and he was actively working with the Black Guardian. But then, by this argument, the TARDIS would have known that Turlough would eventually end up on the right side so that explanation makes sense again anyway.

Edited by AudienceofOne, Apr 22, 2013 @ 10:09 PM.


#75

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Posted Apr 23, 2013 @ 7:01 AM

Which brings up a question I'm starting to wonder about: Did we ever learn exactly why the Tardis exploded in Series 5? I know everything got fixed/reset with The Big Bang, but I can't remember a definite answer as to why

Because. The standard NuWho explanation. There was some suggestion at the end of that season that the Silence blew it up but I don't think Moffatt had actually worked out who they were because everything that happened in the next season made it clear the Silence had zero motivation to destroy the entire universe.

I've wondered about this too. My best guess is that the Silence blew up the TARDIS as an earlier attempt to kill the Doctor. The Evil League of Evil in TPO thought they could prevent the explosion by locking up the Doctor, so maybe the Silence also didn't know that River could pilot the TARDIS?

Of course, it's my cynical-eyeroll theory, since it says, "Really, Silence? Your attempt to prevent the question being asked has the side effect of blowing up the universe?" And their other major attempt broke time. Gotta wonder what's so bad about the alternative that these are considered acceptable risks.

Anyway, I enjoyed it, especially Alec & Emma, the "we must be ghosts to you" scene, and the Doctor's scene with Alec in the darkroom. I like the idea of the TARDIS not trusting Clara, but I think there were better ways to convey that. To me, it seems dumb to show her rattling on the doors and complaining that the TARDIS doesn't like her when the fans are saying, "The door's locked, genius!" I wish she had a key and still had trouble getting in - I think it'd make the intention of these scenes a lot clearer.

#76

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Posted Apr 23, 2013 @ 4:10 PM

In the past, I would've said "oh, the Doctor dropped his bowtie... guess he found it somewhere along the way" and not paid it any mind afterwards... but I've watched that segment several times trying to see what I missed. Probably nothing, it probably IS just continuity... but I don't trust Moffit, lol!

The thing is, in that whole Series 5 storyline, the clothing was a hint that people picked up on and pointed out, and then ended up being awesomely true...so I'm wondering if we're supposed to be looking at it this way?

#77

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Posted Apr 23, 2013 @ 10:31 PM

Two issues with the weecap. One is that the Doctor and the TARDIS are both telepathic so of course they'd be able to see the woman in the pocket universe. The second is that the inability of the TARDIS to operate for long in alternative universes, including pocket universes, is well-established. It draws its power from our universe. Out of it for long, the power will bleed out.

#78

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Posted Apr 24, 2013 @ 5:58 PM

The second is that the inability of the TARDIS to operate for long in alternative universes, including pocket universes, is well-established.

I didn't have a problem with that. If I gave that impression in the weecap, I didn't mean to. (Although I'm not really sure why the TARDIS was needed once Emma opened the portal, since they should have just been able to climb through like Hila did.)

But the psychic thing, the main problem I had with that was how people were able to see/hear the "ghost" for all these centuries. Had there just been that many psychics traipsing through the house?

#79

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Posted Apr 24, 2013 @ 8:16 PM

But the psychic thing, the main problem I had with that was how people were able to see/hear the "ghost" for all these centuries. Had there just been that many psychics traipsing through the house?


I wasn't sure if you needed to be psychic to "see" the ghost or if was that Emma was the first one with the possibility of pulling her through from the other universe. I thought that she was able to see her more clearly but not that you needed to be psychic to see something.

#80

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Posted Apr 25, 2013 @ 8:24 AM

But the psychic thing, the main problem I had with that was how people were able to see/hear the "ghost" for all these centuries. Had there just been that many psychics traipsing through the house?


I think the explanation for this was Emma and Hila (Hilda) are also related. Emma is supposed to be Hila's ancestor. So you add psychic on top of blood and equal the ability to establish a stronger link to Hila.

#81

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Posted Apr 25, 2013 @ 10:20 AM

Dropped bowtie...could that possibly hint that the 11th will regenerate into the 10th (for a short time) in the November episode? We know that Tennant will be there, but no one said that he and Matt will appear in the same scenes.

#82

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Posted Apr 26, 2013 @ 11:41 AM

I'm really intrigued that Tardis is giving her a bit of a hard time. Has that ever happened before with another assistant/companion?


I have to assume it really didn't like Martha. Why else force her to spend months as a maid while the Doctor was a teacher in that 2-parter? Sure, those were great episodes/stories, but was there no where else in the universe the two of them could have hung out safely where Martha wouldn't have been forced to do manual labor and take abuse from spoiled brats?

I was also distracted by the age gap between Emma and the professor. I know her as the early-20-something gal from Call the Midwife, and this professor had to be at least late 40s. And older actress would have been better.

A few people have mentioned Clara's reactions to things, or her level of fear/lessness. It really hit me in the submarine episode that she should have been more upset when she saw the sailors who'd been ripped apart. Then I remembered how many young kids watch this show--the way a normal person might react to that kind of carnage would be too upsetting for a kid.

The outside of the house looked really familiar. Did anyone recognize it from another movie or show?

#83

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Posted Apr 26, 2013 @ 2:46 PM

I was also distracted by the age gap between Emma and the professor. I know her as the early-20-something gal from Call the Midwife, and this professor had to be at least late 40s. And older actress would have been better.

I don't know... I was never bothered by the Professor and Mary Anne.

#84

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Posted Apr 26, 2013 @ 5:00 PM

the way a normal person might react to that kind of carnage would be too upsetting for a kid.


I don't know, Donna's reaction to the carnage of Pompeii or the Oods' song was pretty visceral, I doubt kids couldn't handle it.

but was there no where else in the universe the two of them could have hung out safely where Martha wouldn't have been forced to do manual labor and take abuse from spoiled brats?


I don't think that was something the TARDIS decided. I never got the impression the TARDIS went there just to make Martha's life miserable.

#85

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Posted Apr 27, 2013 @ 1:47 PM

h

ave to assume it really didn't like Martha. Why else force her to spend months as a maid while the Doctor was a teacher in that 2-parter? Sure, those were great episodes/stories, but was there no where else in the universe the two of them could have hung out safely where Martha wouldn't have been forced to do manual labor and take abuse from spoiled brats?


Martha had been traveling with the Doctor for awhile before he had to hide himself from the Family. The TARDIS never rejected or interfered with Martha. That was part of the plan to have Martha be the one to keep watch over the Doctor during that time. I'm not seeing that these are comparable situations.

#86

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Posted Apr 28, 2013 @ 2:57 AM

I know her as the early-20-something gal from Call the Midwife, and this professor had to be at least late 40s.


The actress is 30 though. So there's nothing to say that she couldn't have been playing older, like mid to late 30's.