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16-4: 2013.03.26


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#151

spanana

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Posted Mar 28, 2013 @ 11:28 PM

Putting Val in the position of anything he does being perrvy because she's jailbait wrapped in an adult package is unfair to him.

If Val is that bothered he can take himself off the show and go back to teaching students at his studio. But considering Val's blogs (which border on gushing re: his partner), tweets, interviews and etc. have shown a perfectly happy Val so far I don't get the impression that he is remotely unhappy. They seem to have settled into their rhythm and my guess is he'd rather have a low drama partner that works hard and listens to him, no matter what their age might be. Also I don't see what Z's looks should have to do with anything. So if she looked like 17 year old Shawn who was more tiny and chipmunk cheek cute things would be okay because she wouldn't be tempting jailbait for poor defenseless Val?

I know some stars have come on the show with some dance experience (boy banders, etc, what have you) but it's a little different, imo, when one's dancing days are 15 years or more behind them.

The situation is no different than Nicole S., Mya, Sabrina Bryan, Roshon and a handful of others that came on with current dance experience. Roshon stars on the same exact freaking dance show that she does and nobody gave a crap because he had a harder time making the transition and therefore was never seen as a serious contender. People are only belly aching because she's good.

If the older celebs so to speak think competing against a teen is beneath them, that's on them and says far more about them than anything else.

Edited by spanana, Mar 29, 2013 @ 1:02 AM.


#152

muffaletta

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 12:33 AM

I also believe that Dorothy herself made the decision to leave, but put it off for as long as she possibly could. Ambivalence is mostly what I get from the AfterBuzz clip. I don't believe that the show forced her to quit. They could have gotten way more drama out of letting her continue the show injured, like they have out of all the other celebrities who continued the show injured. And really, you could interpret the whole "We just confirmed during the break" thing as TPTB giving Dorothy one last opportunity to change her mind about quitting, after having the whole day to reconsider, and knowing that she was safe. Of course, at that point, seeing Victor, Lisa, and her new dear friend Andy awaiting their fate, the final confirmation might have become a whole lot easier. But it was always her decision to make, imho.


ITA with this, and I think it's probably more likely that TPTB were begging her to stay, hence her ambivalence and putting off the decision until her doctors unequivocally ordered her to drop out. If it's true that they've been after her since season 2, and that she was called in late in the game to replace a drop-out, it makes even more sense that this is the scenario. This also means that it was not her fault for setting Tristan up for another short season.

Because ratings have been consistently going down for the last few seasons, and Dorothy was one of the bigger and best known draws on the cast this season, it only makes sense that they would beg her to stay. I think they know they are going to lose a lot of viewers with her and Tristan's departure (me included). He was another one they knew they could ill afford to lose as he is popular and has not had an even break in the last few seasons either. Hence even more people tuning out as a result. TPTB know this, hence my theory is the reverse of Elsa's.

It's not just skewing toward younger pros but younger contestants too. I think they're doing it to encourage younger viewers but they're only going to alienate the older ones like me. What happened to a little of everything to round out the cast?


Is DWTS turning into New Coke? Alienating its loyal fanbase in search of a younger demographic, then winding up with neither?


Could be. I kind of think so, although I think all of TV is doing this lately. The more they try to attract younger viewers, the more they put everyone off, including those younger viewers. I think it's a perpetual thorn in TV executives' sides that their biggest audiences continue to be Boomers, especially now that most of us are over 54 (I am just 54 myself), which is not so coincidentally when we somehow become completely uninteresting to advertisers. Supposedly we are seen as unnecessary to advertise to because we are seen as "easy targets". Never mind that 50% of every dollar spent is spent by someone over 50, or will be within the next few years. But that's another rant.

I just wish they could find a way to keep everyone happy. I thought DWTS was doing this in seasons past by having a "something for everyone" kind of cast. Perhaps this season didn't come together the way it was intended for any number of reasons. I have to wonder whether there is some reason it's becoming more difficult for them to attract the people they would like to attract. They probably pressured Dorothy to join the cast as hard as they possibly could. And why? Because other stars were unwilling to join or were pressured and then dropped out? I kind of think that stars who join the cast under such pressure aren't really all that invested in the show to begin with. If they have to pressure people that hard there must be some reason why major, well known stars are becoming reluctant to be on the show.

#153

QueenL

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 1:26 AM

Responded to the Tristan discussion in the Grassy Knoll.

Edited by QueenL, Mar 29, 2013 @ 1:49 AM.


#154

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 8:18 AM

I wish I felt as charitable towards Saint Dorothy as others do. It's hard for me to believe that a professional athlete who has been in the business for over 40 years didn't understand that you can't just "power through" a significant injury. I guarantee you that she was seeing a physical therapist, a doctor, a massage therapist, etc, etc to help her deal with the pain. Any trained professional would have told her that she would not be able to do this show for any length of time. Any casual viewer of DWTS knows the amount of physical work that goes into each week. What was she going to do when they started 3 dances a week?

If Tristan knew weeks ago that his star was not up for the task, the producers knew it too. Whether they asked her to "hang in there" until they got their money's worth is debatable. There have been other stars that have dropped out due to physical issues and the show didn't crash and burn. They got replacements. Dorothy is a star, but it's not like she's the greatest star of all time. Personally I think Dorothy was playing the Brave Little Soldier and telling them that she could do it because she wanted to be on the show so bad. Then she did the first week and realized that it was a bit more than she could handle mentally (and yes, physically) and so she dropped out. And it's a shame that she didn't think more about her pro when she was wrestling with her decision.

Whether Dorothy and her doctor made the decision or the producers made the decision, who knows and who cares? Tristan's the only loser here. I would be mad as hell if I were him. I hope they gave him a bonus for being a damn good sport about the last 2 seasons. And I hope he tells everyone at DWTS to go to hell when they pair him up with Betty White next season.

#155

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 9:00 AM

And I hope he tells everyone at DWTS to go to hell when they pair him up with Betty White next season.


Well, that would be shortsighted because Betty is ratings gold and would likely win the whole damn show!

As for Dorothy, I am so disappointed this season didn't work out for her because I have so many fond memories from when I was a kid. Here's to hoping she heals enough to put on a show at the finale.

Edited by pennben, Mar 29, 2013 @ 9:01 AM.


#156

designing1

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 9:01 AM

Sunnyheart

Tristan's the only loser here. I would be mad as hell if I were him.


From my most recent post on Tristan's thread:

I think the fact that he has mentioned the timeline in every interview I've seen is somewhat passive aggressive on his part; he even (weakly) defended Pam's work ethic (contrary to Sharna's strong statement that "Pam never wanted to practice, not ever"), yet he's pretty darn clear in opining that Dorothy should have dropped out before the show began.

While I'm sure he adores her in many ways (she is adorable), I also think dude is rightfully pissed.

I hope they gave him a bonus for being a damn good sport about the last 2 seasons. And I hope he tells everyone at DWTS to go to hell when they pair him up with Betty White next season.


I'm not big on this whole trend towards people being "deserving" of things, but I'll make an exception in this case: Yes, he deserves some consolation cash (and I don't mean 1,000 bucks whenever they decide to use him in a pro dance) and a viable partner*. I'll be happily surprised if either of these things happens.

*I do think pre-injury Dorothy was viable, I'm just not convinced the ailment wasn't present coming in, and was further aggravated by the rigors of moving her body in unfamiliar ways during rehearsals.

Edited by designing1, Mar 29, 2013 @ 9:22 AM.


#157

avecsans

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 11:20 AM

Doesn't her performance there suggest that this wasn't pre-ordained?


My post wasn't clear. I believe that a lot of Dorothy's problem was in her head. I think she knew about this injury but did not realize how arduous dancing would be and what a disadvantage her age would be to her. I think she took the easy way out by quitting because she didn't want to embarrass herself. Maybe I'm full of it. I don't know, and I don't care. I'm just pissed off that my #1 reason for watching dwts - Tristan - will be watching from the sidelines himself.

#158

ari333

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 11:24 AM

The situation is no different than Nicole S., Mya, Sabrina Bryan, Roshon and a handful of others that came on with current dance experience. Roshon stars on the same exact freaking dance show that she does and nobody gave a crap because he had a harder time making the transition and therefore was never seen as a serious contender. People are only belly aching because she's good.

If the older celebs so to speak think competing against a teen is beneath them, that's on them and says far more about them than anything else.

I didn't really enjoy Zendaya's encore dance on this episode. I don't really enjoy Zendaya. Don't know who Roshon is. Anyway, on rewatch, the encore, she seemed kind of flailing and all over the place to me. Also, imo, some people can be technically good, but not enjoyable for whatever reason. Others may be less technically capable, but are entertaining (imo)... for whatever reason.

Edited by ari333, Mar 29, 2013 @ 12:11 PM.


#159

spanana

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 12:04 PM

I didn't really enjoy Zendaya's encore dance on this episode. I don't really enjoy Zendaya. Don't know who Roshon is.

[snip] I just have an issue with the sexist and ageist crap that seems to be surfacing, especially the jailbait stuff which to me basically implies that pretty girls are just expected to stand around and be pretty otherwise they might dare tempt those weak minded men. Or the idea that she's the only celeb to ever be on this show with current dance experience, which is blatantly untrue.

Roshon Fegan was on two seasons ago and was paired with Chelsie. He is a fairly talented freestyle/hip hop dancer who primarily works for Disney. He plays Z's big brother on her show. I think pre-season there was an expectation he would probably be good based on his background, but he was mediocre at best so that sort of ended the bitching and moaning about his unfair advantage.

Edited by TWoP Lockley, Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:17 AM.
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#160

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Posted Mar 29, 2013 @ 4:03 PM

While I agree that Dorothy does a number on her own head routinely, from what others have said in interviews, she was in a *huge* amount of pain. Nerve pain is horrific and is slow to heal even when it *can* be healed.

So while I could wish she'd left in time for Tristan to have a new partner, I'm delighted she didn't stay on longer. I hate watching people court permanent and serious harm for a TV show - Jennifer Grey and Maria Menounos were no joy to me, knowing what they were risking.

#161

sophygurl

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Posted Mar 30, 2013 @ 9:46 PM

Re: Dorothy's seeming relieved.

I can understand why that might signal to some that she was leaving for more mental/emotional reasons than physical, but I really disagree.

I don't think she was relieved to be Going - I think she was very sad to be leaving the show and the contest and the opportunity. I think she was relieved to have finally made what was likely a very difficult decision. Entertainers and athletes both get a lot of pressure to keep going no matter what - the show must go on, your teammates need you, power through, mind over matter, all that jazz. But sometimes you can't. Sometimes you do have to stop and quit the show.

I feel she was very sad to be leaving, felt bad for what it was doing to Tristan who she constantly and consistently praised up and down for both his talent and his patience with her, and obviously regretted having to bow out of this experience that she'd been wanting to be a part for a very long time.

Now, I do agree that she probably knew about these health issues going in and that agreeing to do the show, and especially agreeing to stick with it after the initial training weeks hurt Tristan and the show. That's not cool. OTOH, she is only human and was likely battling years of training telling her that she has to keep going because that IS what our culture tells athletes and entertainers (and really everyone to a certain degree damn that ingrained protestant work ethic!).

I've always cringed when other stars and even pros have agreed to keep going despite possible debilitating injuries. What are they trying to prove, and to who? You want to collapse on stage live and be rushed to the ER and never walk again? For a mirror ball? Why?

So, yea, I think Dorothy should have bowed out sooner. But I disagree that she was glad to leave. I think she was just relieved that she was forced to make the decision and didn't have to further injure herself for no reason.

#162

TWoP Lockley

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:18 AM

Keep it on topic. This is the episode thread. If you want to talk in detail about Tristan or Dorothy or both, take it to their threads. I deleted a bunch of posts that had strayed off topic.