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1-15: "When You're Tired of Breaking Other Hearts" 2013.03.27


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#91

Midru

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 11:24 AM

I'm starting to resent Jolene's addiction storyline if it just keeps finding ways to bash Juliette. I would think if anything at the end of this story we get a Juliette with a fresh appreciation for her good qualities and a more tranquil and happy outlook. Even more important, a girl who for maybe the first time feels real love and acceptance and support from her family. I really want that for her, but don't think we are going to get it.

And I realllllly doubt Vince is the father. No mention has been made that Rayna even knew him, and it would also force the timeline to 1 Rayna bones Deacon one last time, either right before or during his rehab 2 Then she bones Vince in circumstances unknown 3 Then she meets, courts, bones, and marries Teddy. 1-2-3 would have to been in a VERY compressed timeframe.

Agree that the Deacon seduction was basically not believable. A doctor lady who did not seem adventurous, open to new experiences, or attracted to Deacon. She doesn't seem the type. And (except for when he's bedding women)Deacon doesn't seem the type either. And they went to his place before lunch? But I think part of Nashville is that Deacon is irresistible to every woman on the planet, with the possible exception of relatives.

Btw I would never call Deacon or a night stand "wholesome". Wholesome implies family values, which one night stands and drug-addicted musicians contradict.

Edited by Midru, Mar 31, 2013 @ 11:29 AM.


#92

prican58

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 11:36 AM

Re Dominic telling Avery that he'd never work in the biz again..Really, dude? What is Dominic's main genre? Is he hip hop? Electronica? Dub Step? What? Is he a Rick Rubin type who'll take a Johnny Cash and make him an icon all over again?

Guy is based in ATL so while he's got some knowledge of Country b/c he's in the South and couldn't ignore it if he tried, does he have any pull at all? I mean "everybody" loves and respects Jay Z but could even he kill a country wanna be's career? I doubt it.

The only way he could ruin Avery would be by suing his ass with high powered lawyers and breaking his spirit. Somehow I don't see TPTB continuing the Dominic s/l.

Avery did go go for the gold and leave his boys and his girl behind but I never thought he didn't love Scarlett. He was just so frustrated in his quest for a big break that he didn't think. His jealousy of Scarlett and Gunnar's possible success seemed to stymie him. Everything just steamrolled after that. As he continued to get royally screwed by his mgr and Dominic, I actually felt bad for him. The remix, was the proverbial straw. I like Avery and hope he can get out alive.

#93

shron17

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 11:42 AM

Similarly, a really weird thing to do? Give your daughter the guitar that arguably launched your career while giving lip service to being grounded (which is not recommended in parenting,

Rather than rewarding her with a gift, I see it as giving her a tool to help her deal with her life as it is now. Consistency is good, but making a kid feel worse who's already struggling doesn't generally help either, especially at that age. Though I imagine there will be consequences once Rayna and Teddy decide what they should be. While I get calling her mom a bitch is a big deal, in my experience with my daughter (who's also 22 and still very much alive), it's somewhat inevitable on the rare occasion between mothers and teenage daughters. Rayna should give her at least another chance or 2 before she commits a felony.

Yes, but by that standard Deacon would have been off the hook too because he also drunk out of his mind.

What kind of shape Deacon was in when it happened is one of the things we don't know. He may well have been told over and over that he wasn't responsible for Vince's actions but consistently believing that is another matter. It also seems possible Deacon played up his feelings of guilt to show Gunnar he really does understand.

I was referring to the moment that Jolene is encouraged to talk directly to Juliette about her memory of the crowd scene, where Juliette ignored her and I did get the details of it wrong, but my point was and is that they are writing the addiction therapy story oddly.

I do agree some of these scenes were oddly written but think it could be that they're really zeroing in on the main characters' flaws in a way that eclipses the whole picture (if that makes sense). For example, the scene with Juliette and Jolene really highlights Juliette's flaw of refusing to take responsibility for her actions but puts Jolene's struggle to accept responsibility for her behavior way in the background. Now I didn't see it as Juliette being blamed for her mother's addiction, but agree it would be nice to see Jolene and the counselor acknowledge more explicitly that Juliette has always been the victim and has absolutely no responsibility for Jolene's behavior.

The implicit meaning within an apology is an admission of wrongdoing. Juliette was open and honest by expressing that her mother was correct. She did not have to do that, and frankly, what on Earth will ever encourage her to ever do that again if she's made to apologize to Jolene in the next breath?

I agree that once Juliette was honest about Jolene's memory being correct she absolutely didn't have to apologize, but I missed how she was made to apologize.

Admittedly, I've never had the experience of having someone deal with an addiction, so the above is just based on TV, but the concept of Juliette having to apologize when it comes to her childhood or her mother's addiction makes me want to join the poster who wants to punch people in the face. Juliette Barnes had a hellish childhood for which she is in no way at fault, and it is offensive to even imply that she is.

I don't have much personal experience with addiction myself, and wouldn't hesitate to defer to others, but I do have empathy for Jolene as a less than perfect parent. Even though it doesn't show Jolene is probably beating herself up about 10 times over what Juliette is, and I imagine being forced at this point to fully admit her guilt to Juliette would make it impossible to maintain her balance. The therapy could no doubt go into great detail about how deeply Jolene hurt Juliette over the years and how horrible a parent she really was, but at this point it wouldn't support Jolene in maintaining her sobriety. Allowing Jolene to gain enough strength to be able to stay sober longer before taking on her past sins seems like a much healthier, happier goal for both of them.

#94

stillshimpy

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 12:10 PM

but I do have empathy for Jolene as a less than perfect parent


I hear you on that, shron, no matter how good a parent tries to be we all have failings and man are they ever hard to contemplate.

But the failings of an addict in regards to a child in their care are not the same things as "You know, I remember this one time my child tried to grab something out of the oven without a mitt and man did I ever overreact. I was scared, I was tired, but I really had a disproportionate response to that. I felt bad and said things I shouldn't have" sort of thing that nearly every parent, everywhere has in their memory banks.

Within the show we've heard that Jolene failed to feed her child. Evidently exposed her to a man that kissed her at some point as a kid and was so routinely blasted that she nearly burned down the house her child was in. It's just not the same as "If I'd helped you more with your homework, maybe you really would have loved science more" or "I was too harsh about that bad grade", it's actual life-endangerment issues and complete failure to be a caretaker that the show has outlined.

It's actually been sort of painful to watch Jolene talk about how she had a fear that she'd be a failure when...sadly, she caused herself to be an actual failure as a parent. Not a less than perfect parent, but "Seriously, someone should have taken your child away" sort of parent.

I'm going to let it go and I apologize because I'm not trying to pound away at a point. I do think the show is being a bit irresponsible thus far with the story, because you know, if Juliette were to decide, "Hey, I'm glad you're sober now and I don't wish you any ill, but you have no place in my life. You're in recovery from substances and I'm in recovery from you." that would be a pretty legitimate choice for someone who tried to passively kill her via neglect on at least two occasions that we know about.

It can be an issue that is hard not to personalize though and I get that. I'm sure part of my own reaction is influenced by past events. Maybe that just will always hold true for parent/child stuff on TV, because it does achieve an empathy hit with the audience. But addicts are so very damaging to children and that is entirely legitimate. The show's current approach is just...as I said...strange.

Edited by stillshimpy, Mar 31, 2013 @ 12:11 PM.


#95

Ohmo

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 12:50 PM

I agree that once Juliette was honest about Jolene's memory being correct she absolutely didn't have to apologize, but I missed how she was made to apologize.



I was unclear. Juliette was not made to apologize by Sober Coach or Jolene, bur she was made to apologize by the writers. By specifically having her say that she's sorry, that implies fault on her part. When the topic is her reaction to her long-term addict of a mother, even though that mother is now in recovery, I personally don't like Juliette put in a position of perceived fault. When it comes to this situation, there is someone at fault---Jolene.

#96

shron17

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 1:02 PM

I'm going to let it go and I apologize because I'm not trying to pound away at a point. I do think the show is being a bit irresponsible thus far with the story, because you know, if Juliette were to decide, "Hey, I'm glad you're sober now and I don't wish you any ill, but you have no place in my life. You're in recovery from substances and I'm in recovery from you." that would be a pretty legitimate choice for someone who tried to passively kill her via neglect on at least two occasions that we know about.

Sorry, I don't mean to pound away either. I agree it would be perfectly acceptable for Juliette to choose her own recovery and cut her mother out of her life. But that's not the story that's being written, and continuing to punish Jolene for her past sins is never going to make the situation better.

I was unclear. Juliette was not made to apologize by Sober Coach or Jolene, bur she was made to apologize by the writers.

Oh, okay. Sorry, didn't mean to be picky. It seemed to me she was just apologizing for causing pain to Jolene rather than admitting fault, but I see your point of view.

#97

lorra

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 4:59 PM

Speaking of which, Sobriety Dude actually further enables Jolene by permitting her to place blame and guilt on Juliette instead of taking responsibility for her actions. Again, it's bizarro world counseling/addiction therapy and I'm mystified as to what model the writers used. Even Passages Malibu, which doesn't believe in the "disease" concept also doesn't believe you get to blame your kid for your slips. By letting her blame someone else, he's actually negatively impacting Jolene's recovery.

I'll lastly add, the other reason this whole sobriety and therapy arc doesn't ring true: I'm a mom and feel horribly guilty when I lose my temper with my daughter, even if she completely baited me into it. If had put my kid through 1 tiny percent of what Jolene put Juliette through, there wouldn't be enough apologies in the world for me to offer her. It wouldn't even occur to me to be angry about the green sweater snub, I'd fully recognize it was entirely MY fault. And I would be deeply, deeply grateful for my child's efforts to accept me back into her life.

And I'm hardly some super virtuous, self sacrificing saint. Just that's how any person feels about their child. We've already seen that Jolene is otherwise a nice enough person----it's hard to imaigne she would feel so entiled to do this, other than it being a crutch for her.


I still have my doubts concerning Jolene. At times, I really get the feeling that she is just using her rich and famous daughter. The therapist has also made me feel very distrustful of him.

But the failings of an addict in regards to a child in their care are not the same things as "You know, I remember this one time my child tried to grab something out of the oven without a mitt and man did I ever overreact. I was scared, I was tired, but I really had a disproportionate response to that. I felt bad and said things I shouldn't have" sort of thing that nearly every parent, everywhere has in their memory banks.

Within the show we've heard that Jolene failed to feed her child. Evidently exposed her to a man that kissed her at some point as a kid and was so routinely blasted that she nearly burned down the house her child was in. It's just not the same as "If I'd helped you more with your homework, maybe you really would have loved science more" or "I was too harsh about that bad grade", it's actual life-endangerment issues and complete failure to be a caretaker that the show has outlined.

It's actually been sort of painful to watch Jolene talk about how she had a fear that she'd be a failure when...sadly, she caused herself to be an actual failure as a parent. Not a less than perfect parent, but "Seriously, someone should have taken your child away" sort of parent.


There's something in all this that doesn't seem right to me. Jolene still manages to make the world center around her. And I don't exactly see her feel regret or even act supportive to Juliette. Yes, Jolene said some nice things at different moments. But she would know how to play people, wouldn't she? She knew how to get drugs.

May be this woman is just bad. And maybe so is the therapist. Because there seems to be quite a lot of lack of consideration for what Juliette went through in her childhood and how hard she has to work today. On both Jolene and the therapists' parts. They seem to take Juliette for granted. Especially the fact that she is paying for everything. It just makes me uneasy.

#98

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Posted Mar 31, 2013 @ 8:45 PM

Re Dominic telling Avery that he'd never work in the biz again..Really, dude? What is Dominic's main genre? Is he hip hop? Electronica? Dub Step? What? Is he a Rick Rubin type who'll take a Johnny Cash and make him an icon all over again?

Guy is based in ATL so while he's got some knowledge of Country b/c he's in the South and couldn't ignore it if he tried, does he have any pull at all? I mean "everybody" loves and respects Jay Z but could even he kill a country wanna be's career? I doubt it.

The only way he could ruin Avery would be by suing his ass with high powered lawyers and breaking his spirit. Somehow I don't see TPTB continuing the Dominic s/l.

Avery did go go for the gold and leave his boys and his girl behind but I never thought he didn't love Scarlett. He was just so frustrated in his quest for a big break that he didn't think. His jealousy of Scarlett and Gunnar's possible success seemed to stymie him. Everything just steamrolled after that. As he continued to get royally screwed by his mgr and Dominic, I actually felt bad for him. The remix, was the proverbial straw. I like Avery and hope he can get out alive.


Yeah, I like Avery too. I think he's basically a good guy who was so desperate to make it as a musician that he was willing to sell his soul - until he learned how deep that devil's bargain really went. Desperation can make people do hurtful things to the ones they care about. Doesn't make him a horrible person, just young and a little bit self involved, which is hardly unique among musicians.

IMO Dominic was spewing a whole lotta hyperbole. I seriously doubt he can ruin Avery's career as a musician, forevermore. He might make things a little difficult for Avery for awhile. But I'm betting it's worth it for Avery just to be able to walk away and not have to listen to his music being mangled like that anymore. Dear God that "dub step" mix was horrid.

#99

imatwkrp

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Posted Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:06 PM

If the things Juliette does aren't bad enough, she makes them so much worse by refusing to take responsibility. Rayna got upset at Juliette's response of "why is everyone trying to act like this is completely my fault?"


Yes, this really appalled me and engrossed me at the same time. Anyone in the music business who doesn't know about the problem with tons of people crushing each other at a show is really just not paying attention. There's only one person who was responsible for that overcrowded mayhem: Juliet. The "accident" was foreseeable and attributable to her and her alone.

A doctor lady who did not seem adventurous, open to new experiences, or attracted to Deacon. She doesn't seem the type.

Most veterinarians are women, actually. And she seemed adventurous the moment Deacon guessed she was from San Fran by way of Colorado. She also, although I may be projecting here, seemed attracted to Deacon.

Similarly, a really weird thing to do? Give your daughter the guitar that arguably launched your career while giving lip service to being grounded (which is not recommended in parenting,

Rather than rewarding her with a gift, I see it as giving her a tool to help her deal with her life as it is now.


It was both, a gift and a tool, and I really found that whole subplot jarring. Do parents like this exist? In a million years, my parents would not have been all sensitive and gift-giving in response to my lying to them and getting myself in a hare-brained situation. That was so weird.

#100

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Posted Apr 1, 2013 @ 11:15 PM

I am having great difficulty watching any scene with Scarlett because all I can focus on is the rats nest on her head. She is really a caricature with the hair, the clothing and that squeaky voice. Ugh.

#101

peonyandpearl

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 9:22 AM

It was both, a gift and a tool, and I really found that whole subplot jarring. Do parents like this exist? In a million years, my parents would not have been all sensitive and gift-giving in response to my lying to them and getting myself in a hare-brained situation. That was so weird.


I think it was more the timing of her acting out that caused Rayna to cut her some slack. At Maddie's age, an age where things are already tough, she's going through a major life change and having a pretty normal teenage reaction to it. Obviously she shouldn't be calling her mother a bitch or lying to her dad about her whereabouts, but the girl ended up in the hospital and seemed shaken and remorseful after the fact. Lashing out at her at this point would likely not help the situation and this incident seemed out of character for her anyway based on what we've seen so far.

Also--while Rayna WAS sensitive to her and gave her the guitar, she does make it clear Maddie is going to be grounded, and obviously had no qualms about putting her foot down for her initial rudeness. It ended up being Teddy who let her bend the rules without Rayna's knowledge.

#102

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 10:38 AM

I think it was more the timing of her acting out that caused Rayna to cut her some slack.

On top of your typical teenage angst/rebellion, you get the parent's divorcing with the added bonus of the divorce making tabloid news.

I did not find the guitar giving as a big reward for bad behavior. Sure you would want to kill your kid for pulling a stunt like that, but I would also be so relieved that my kid was ok that I would need to express both emotional extremes. The show probably summed it up too tidily but a couple hours of ranting with intermittent crying of relief did not fit well into the schedule.

#103

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 11:57 AM

The show probably summed it up too tidily but a couple hours of ranting with intermittent crying of relief did not fit well into the schedule.

Ha! The other thing is it wasn't Rayna's time with the kids and she had to really make whatever she said to Maddie count. You don't want the last thing your kids hear is you ranting the first time the visitation schedule keeps you from being there for them.

Yes, this really appalled me and engrossed me at the same time. Anyone in the music business who doesn't know about the problem with tons of people crushing each other at a show is really just not paying attention.

The fact that Juliette's fans are largely young and vulnerable just made it worse, and she's still so young herself. I was hoping Glenn might come back and be open to her music changing, but now I'm thinking their relationship was too established for him to be capable of giving what she needs right now. But she really needs to find a manager who knows the business; expecting Emily to just know what to do (and then insulting her when she doesn't) isn't fair either.

IMO Dominic was spewing a whole lotta hyperbole. I seriously doubt he can ruin Avery's career as a musician, forevermore. He might make things a little difficult for Avery for awhile. But I'm betting it's worth it for Avery just to be able to walk away and not have to listen to his music being mangled like that anymore.

This is what I was thinking too. Dominic seemed too controlling and Marilyn was just bad. Saw an interview with the head of Taylor Swift's label who said he looks for individuality and having a sense of who they are in an artist; Avery needs a label like that.

Edited by shron17, Apr 2, 2013 @ 1:44 PM.


#104

Midru

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 2:07 PM

Avery signed some kind of contract with Dominic. We don't know exactly, but it could give Dominic exclusive rights to release Avery's music and possibly control over the content as well. So he could prevent Avery from releasing anything unless it is through him. He might have the option to have Avery record songs and then refuse to release them. He could probably also release any mix of the music he wanted, "dirty" sound or whatever. He could conceivably prevent Avery from performing songs he wrote himself but are now owned by Dominic. So I think there's a lot Dominic can do to Avery.

The crowd control- in normal circumstances, Juliette would never be personally responsible. Does anyone know if it is up to the venue or the artist to provide security in these situations? If the artist, it's probably Juliette's lack of manager that cause it. But the show didn't really tell us, did it? I personally hope Glen comes back.

#105

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 2:54 PM

Juliette was totally responsible for the crowd issue at her little Twitter party. I hope she calls Glenn and begs him to return, and he hangs up on her. And the way she tried to blame it on her assistant was wrong. The assistant has been nice to her when no one else was and now she has turned on her too.

#106

zumpie

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Posted Apr 2, 2013 @ 9:05 PM

The crowd control- in normal circumstances, Juliette would never be personally responsible. Does anyone know if it is up to the venue or the artist to provide security in these situations? If the artist, it's probably Juliette's lack of manager that cause it. But the show didn't really tell us, did it?


It varies, but normally, it's on the venue. Really, once again, we had a very poorly researched and written scene in which they drop the details mid-way. If you have a famous person playing a tiny venue (and this IS a city where it would appear celebs abound), you err on the side of word getting out.

Once you're at capacity, you just stop letting people in. From your local dive bar to Disney World, EVERY venue or public facility (and I'm including stores and malls in this) has a legal limit of people they're permitted to allow in. Since this was an operating business of some sort that KNEW Juliette Barnes was going to be there, obviously, they would've anticipated the possibility ahead of time.

This is why The Disney Store or Hot Topic will only permit a certain number of people in at a time when they have special, in-store events. Basically, the community relations coordinator at your local Barnes and Noble's job is to direct traffic when they have a book signing.

Mind you, I'm not saying Juliette didn't do something short sighted, just they never would've allowed that many extra kids in to begin with. And is yet another example of why I get frustrated with the plot contrivanced writing on this show

#107

shron17

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Posted Apr 3, 2013 @ 8:48 AM

Mind you, I'm not saying Juliette didn't do something short sighted, just they never would've allowed that many extra kids in to begin with. And is yet another example of why I get frustrated with the plot contrivanced writing on this show

Part of the problem was that Juliette's tweet promised free CD's to the first 200 to arrive. Not to mention that the venue thought only 50 people knew about the event and wouldn't have been expecting a crowd trying to push their way in.

#108

Emily Thrace

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Posted Apr 3, 2013 @ 1:33 PM

Avery signed some kind of contract with Dominic. We don't know exactly, but it could give Dominic exclusive rights to release Avery's music and possibly control over the content as well. So he could prevent Avery from releasing anything unless it is through him. He might have the option to have Avery record songs and then refuse to release them. He could probably also release any mix of the music he wanted, "dirty" sound or whatever. He could conceivably prevent Avery from performing songs he wrote himself but are now owned by Dominic. So I think there's a lot Dominic can do to Avery.


Avery sold his music to a publisher so Domonic doesn't own that. He might own his name or his release rights but he could just go back to being the Avery Barkley band to fix that or even change his name. Honestly Avery storming off like that could be a big embarrassment for Domonic so he may just let him go queitly. Plus Domonic is a pop mainstream guy they don't tend to interact much with Nashville types, so if Avery sticks to that he should be fine. Creative differences like that are fairly common in music I don't think many will hold it against Avery. Besides its all contrivance so Avery can be on Rayna's label too anyway.

There's something in all this that doesn't seem right to me. Jolene still manages to make the world center around her. And I don't exactly see her feel regret or even act supportive to Juliette. Yes, Jolene said some nice things at different moments. But she would know how to play people, wouldn't she? She knew how to get drugs.


Yeah Jolene still pretty much acting like an addict but that's something fairly truthful to me. Rehab gets people to stop using drugs but it usually doesn't transform a persons character they're still the same asshole just a little more predicatable without the drugs. I don't think the writers realize it yet but their pointing out one of the biggest flaws in AA and related programs that Jolene is not taking any responsibilty for her actions it the fault of her addiction. Even her using is Juliette's fault but I'm not surpriased her fellow addict is enabling her. Its why addict don't always make the best counselors cuz they buy what the addict is selling a little to easily. I suspect Juliet will still end up kicking out her mother even if she stays sober those two are just too poisonous to each other. In time they might be okay but Juliet needs to be able to trust her mother and Jolene needs to get her head on straight before they can have a functional relationship.

I do wish Rayna and Juliete would grow closer as they showed this episode they need each other. Juliete needs Rayna most and could really use that older female mentor but Juliete is the only who deflates Rayna's ego.