147 replies to this topic

[TWoP Lockley]

Sam and Dean learn from Castiel that Crowley has unleashed several demons in a small town to search for Lucifer's crypt, which contains a very valuable asset. The brothers also discover that Crowley is torturing Meg because she knows the exact location of the crypt.

[Kimit]

Good episode for the most part!

I didn't like Sam talking about Amelia again. I want to forget that storyline ever happened. It was nice that the show remembered Meg possessed Sam way back when. Too bad bringing that up led to their super lame conversation.

I'm sad to see Meg killed off. I think she was the only character left besides Sam and Dean that has been around since season 1? She was a great villain. Did love "shut up, Meg" though. My mind immediately went to Family Guy.

Glad Dean found out Sam was lying to him and called him out on it. So tired of these two always having something they're keeping from each other. Now everything is out in the open.

Great brotherly moment at the end. I love any time the boys can laugh and joke around.

Edited by Kimit, Mar 20, 2013 @ 9:14 PM.

[jediknight]

Wait, were my ears deceiving me or did this episode end with classic rock? Awesome to hear, please be the return of the classic rock.

I love that the one thing Meg took away from the story was that Sam stopped after he hit the dog.

[morrigan2575]

Fantastic episode, I really loved it. Loved all the Dean and Castiel scenes, I especially loved that Dean is what it took to break Naomi's hol on Cas. Poor Dean it takes him getting the crap beat out of him but he's able to break both heaven and hell's hold over people who love him.

Loved the "Shut Up Meg" line, I should have seen it coming but I didn't and it was great. I also liked the Castiel/Meg scene, that should have been my first clue as to Meg's fate. I can't believe they finally killed Meg, I can't believe I actually cared. LOL

I'm very interested in the Angel tablet plot. I wonder why Castiel has to protect it from Dean as well as Naomi?

There was so much awesome in this episode I almost forgot to mention Crowley, he was great as always, I especially loved his last line, "the tart stole my move" LOL.

Finally, I loved the Dean/Sam scene in the car. Loved that Dean is Samwise, he's only the best Hobbit ever! Dean is right the Rudy Hobbit always gets a pass.

[Sewall]

Overall, I liked the episode a lot. Two observations:
I cannot believe they killed Meg. She was awesome in this episode. Her scenes with Sam and Castiel were the best in the eppie. So of course they killed her.. Second, why does Dean believe Castiel is not trustworthy except when it comes to the most important thing. His family. So, he questions him on everything, but what really counts. That, he blindly accepts Castiel's words as the gospel truth.

[kalikimaki]

Well, I'm not sure what to say.

Sam? Everyone and their uncle and cousins know you want normal so I'm not sure what Meg was blabbing about, and yeah, another season of poor Sam is in danger of dying. Wake me up when this repetitive drab is over.

Meg, sorry you died, but not really. You were getting on my nerves and really, Unicorn? Apparently you didn't meet ms personality or else you would have had a good laugh.

Naomi? I hope you stick around girl, you rock.

Dean? Does it ever make you wonder why John, Bobby and now Cas was able to break out of the possession or mind control spell to save you except your own brother who you want to carry? Drop him fast and move on, you've carried that selfish ass for far too long and it's time to let go.

Cas? Best part of the episode was you breaking away for Dean and getting on the bus with the song. I only wish you had taken Dean with you, because now you left him behind so he can carry Sam. FU Show.

All in all, not bad but not all that great either.

[zombooni]

A really good episode because I finally got Dean and Cas for the win!
That opening sequence was surprisingly creepy, and how much did I love Dean's claim that Cas was a part of the family.
Not surprised to see Crowley and Naomi in cahoots. Not surprised to see Cas take off with the tablet either, that was really predictble.
Meg was rather touching and sweet,but I'm kind of glad she's gone, if she really is and that wasn't just for the Winchesters' benefit.
Nice that Dean finally called Sam out on the lying and said he wouldn't put up with it any more from anyone. I hope he sticks to that.

[Tippi Blevins]

Crowley made Meg dye her hair and forego conditioner. That bastard.

[Grace Oakley]

It is part of Crowley's new and improved hell an eternal bad hair days.

Edited by Grace Oakley, Mar 20, 2013 @ 9:25 PM.

[DrScheme]

Ok I might have laughed for 5 minutes when Crowley told Sam he loves when he gets all tough cause it makes him feel tingly "where his bathing suite fits" OMG. LMAO. I know Crowley is a scummy villain but the man can deliver a one-liner like no other. LOL

The Scene in the crypt between Dean/Cas and Naomi/Cas was awesome. Well acted by both Jensen and Misha. And when Naomi started to lose her cool and started RANTING at Castiel about all the blood he has on his hands?!?! Whoa.

I also join the chorus that suprisingly actually feels a little bad about Meg. Who would'a thought.

Have to get my thoughts together to post the rest but Awesome episode.

[Parcae3]

I don't know what to think.

On the one hand, it wasn't as bad as I had feared and it was better than most of the mytharc episodes this season.

On the other hand, that's really not saying much.

Hated the Megstiel stuff. It's like they couldn't just give us "Profound Bond" in this episode without making sure we know that it's just not as important, because Cas is in love with some demon chick. Like they had to water Dean/Castiel down with this. And considering Dean/Castiel is about the only thing I have left to enjoy on this show, other than Jensen's fine self, that was a huge disappointment.

I did love, however, that love for Dean did ultimately break a part of Cas' programming, and that he didn't need some damn toy soldier to do it! Looks like the tablet freed Cas truly from Naomi, which is good.

I refuse to get my hopes up that Castiel telling Dean he has to protect the tablet from "Dean" means that Dean is important. I'm thinking it's a proverbial "you" as in humanity, or Dean and Sam.

So disappointed though, that apparently Naomi didn't get Dean out of Purgatory, Dean isn't important to the angel tablet in anyway, and he has no connection to it. Damn it, this was the perfect mytharc for Dean to be involved in and of course, he's not. Instead, he's the fucking sidekick to everyone else and their story.

Well, at least the show finally came out and admitted it: Dean is just the sidekick. Nothing important than how he can support Sam.

But man, that freaking blows. It really does. I am so sick of Dean being unimportant amidst all of the "really" important people. He is a lead, right? I didn't imagine Jensen being there since day one and Dean being one of the two lead, regular characters? So why in the HELL is he not having a storyline too?

That line was just a knife in my heart. Ugh. But at least they are finally admitting they don't consider him important. Still hurts though.

Oh, and Amelia is so coming back. So, yay. We get more Samelia to go with everything else! Sigh.

Jensen sure was pretty tho! And yay, for Dean not being an idiot and falling for Sam's lies! And for calling him on it.

And who wants to bet that Sam's not being changed into an angel or something super powerful. Because he just can't be special enough for this Show.

Dean? Does it ever make you wonder why John, Bobby and now Cas was able to break out of the possession or mind control spell to save you except your own brother who you want to carry? Drop him fast and move on, you've carried that selfish ass for far too long and it's time to let go.

Cas? Best part of the episode was you breaking away for Dean and getting on the bus with the song. I only wish you had taken Dean with you, because now you left him behind so he can carry Sam. FU Show.

LMAO!!!

THIS! Thank you for the laughs!!!

Edited by Parcae3, Mar 20, 2013 @ 9:23 PM.

[exit only]

I liked the beginning with Castiel killing FakeDean and then opening up the shot to show all of the dead Deans. I liked how Naomi knew who was important to Dean to determine whether Castiel's training was complete.

The last scene between Dean and Castiel was intense. Major kudos to Jensen and Misha and their acting and chemistry!

Most of the rest of the episode was kind of boring and talky. I didn't like the Meg-Cas scenes and Sam and Meg's heart-to-heart was a little too much Samelia and gag-worthy. I'm hoping that the Amelia talk was the way for the show to show Meg's motivation in going up against Crowley and not because we're going to see Amelia again, or even hear more about Amelia and Sam wanting normal.

[kalikimaki]

And who wants to bet that Sam's not being changed into an angel or something super powerful. Because he just can't be special enough for this Show.

I will laugh my ass off because how much more lame can Sam get? Making him even more special isn't going to make him any better of a brother or a man, it just makes him a superbrat.

[Bruinsfan]

I didn't like Sam talking about Amelia again. I want to forget that storyline ever happened.

I was bracing myself for another flashback to their first meeting, and SO grateful the scene cut to Dean & Cas instead and let Sam tell the whole boring story off-camera.

Dean? Does it ever make you wonder why John, Bobby and now Cas was able to break out of the possession or mind control spell to save you except your own brother who you want to carry?

To be fair, Sam broke Lucifer's control to save Dean, so I don't think there's any difference between him and the other people Dean loves on this issue. In fact, I'd probably say his was the most impressive feat of the bunch.

[steve91199]

Hated the Megstiel stuff. It's like they couldn't just give us "Profound Bond" in this episode without making sure we know that it's just not as important, because Cas is in love with some demon chick. Like they had to water Dean/Castiel down with this. And considering Dean/Castiel is about the only thing I have left to enjoy on this show, other than Jensen's fine self, that was a huge disappointment.

I'm not really sure how to feel about Meg and Cas. I don't think it watered down Cas' feelings for Dean, because he broke through the most brutal tortures (and this isn't the first time) for Dean. I think they mostly did this because they wanted to kill Meg off and they wanted her death to have more meaning. Knowing that she sacrificed herself in part for Cas has more of an impact than her sacrificing herself for some guys she once terrorized and now had a truce with.

I feel like the show is always a little uncertain of how to write Dean and Cas, but moments like Naomi knowing it was Dean, not Sam, who was Cas' weak spot (in spite of the seasons where the show sort of suggested they were both supposed to be equally important to Cas), remind me of how strong their bond is.

So disappointed though, that apparently Naomi didn't get Dean out of Purgatory, Dean isn't important to the angel tablet in anyway, and he has no connection to it.

I think Dean's story with the tablets will probably be more along the lines of his efforts against Heaven, not for them, because he's never going to work for them. I do agree that I hope he's important to the story. I feel like he is emotionally, which is more than I can say for Sam at the moment, but I'd always like to see him more involved in the plot.

I'm hoping that the Amelia talk was the way for the show to show Meg's motivation in going up against Crowley and not because we're going to see Amelia again, or even hear more about Amelia and Sam wanting normal.

From what some of the powers that be have said I'll be surprised if we see Amelia again.

[Austinthecat]

That line was just a knife in my heart. Ugh. But at least they are finally admitting they don't consider him important. Still hurts though.

I've been thinking for a while that I was at the point of just wanting the show to be honest about Dean's role being far more minor than Sam's and more of the supporting type, so I can't complain that they finally got up the nerve to just come out and say it. (And if the show gave Dean the same kind of respectful treatment Sam in Lord of the Rings got (see Lemuria's post), I think I'd even be content with it. Sam was quite important in that story. Dean doesn't get the same respect, which makes that statement kind of saddening instead)

Hey, at least this way we know and won't expect anything. Can't be disappointed if you don't have hope built up for a Dean mytharc, right?

The only possible thing that may put Dean into more of an active role is the idea that Cas needs to keep the tablet away from him. The question is, did Cas mean him or humanity?

The Cas stuff is awesome though. :D

Edited by Austinthecat, Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:06 PM.

[Lemuria]

Wow, Sam wants "normal?" Really? I'm so glad I watched this episode because I never would have known that. That made that whole boring conversation between Meg and Sam worthwhile. [/sarcasm] Hey, Sam, remember that conversation Dean had with you about having both feet in or both feet out? You told him you agreed--yet another untruth? (And how glad am I that Dean finally called Sam on the lying and told him to give it a rest?)

Parcae, Frodo failed his mission. He would have doomed everyone, if it hadn't been for Sam, who was himself starved and dehydrated, carrying Frodo up a freakin' volcano, and for Gollum snatching the ring (and Frodo's finger) and falling with it into Orodruin. Sam also took down a giant immortal spider demi-god, singlehandedly, and took down (or terrorized) a tower full of Orcs, singlehandedly. In fact, Tolkien many times said that Sam was the hero of the books. For example, in one letter, he said: "I think the simple 'rustic' love of Sam and his Rosie (nowhere elaborated) is absolutely essential to the study of his (the chief hero's) character, and to the theme of the relation of ordinary life (breathing, eating, working, begetting) and quests, sacrifice, causes, and the 'longing for Elves', and sheer beauty." (I bolded the key, for our purposes, part of this quote.)

To be fair, Sam broke Lucifer's control to save Dean, so I don't think there's any difference between him and the other people Dean loves on this issue. In fact, I'd probably say his was the most impressive feat of the bunch.

For me, though, how they played it in "Swan Song" said otherwise. He didn't stop killing Dean until he saw his own green soldier--and even then, I agree with a thread at the time that it was Lucifer who let go, more than Sam getting control. Because there's no way, IMO, he was able to snatch control long enough to talk, take the rings, make the incantation, struggle with Michael etc. Just MO, of course; MV.

Edited by Lemuria, Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:06 PM.

[Parcae3]

The Cas stuff is awesome though. :D

I never thought that I would actually be jealous of the Cas fans, LOL! At least they have some importance for their guy and he's getting a freaking story.

I felt for Cas, and I am so glad he is free of Naomi!

Oh, Lemuria, thanks, I know the story of the rings. But Sam never gets the credit he deserves in the movie or in the books. It's still that Frodo is the hero and Frodo is the One. Samwise is just Frodo's helpful servant who did his duty by standing by his master in the end. It's not what I want for Dean. Dean is a LEAD. He should be Aragorn at the very least. Not just the servant to the hero.

For me, though, how they played it in "Swan Song" said otherwise. He didn't stop killing Dean until he saw his own green soldier

I agree. I think this is one that we will have to agree to disagree with, Bruinsfan, because I never saw Sam as breaking free for love of Dean or anything to do with Dean. Otherwise, there would have been no need for some damn plastic toy. But with Bobby, John, and now Castiel, it was seeing Dean suffering and begging them, that broke free to them. And that is just beautiful and says a lot to me about how much those three really did love Dean, in the end.

Edited by Parcae3, Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:14 PM.

[steve91199]

I should also say I liked the callback to the scene where Cas healed Dean in "Swan Song." That was such a tender, intimate scene - it's actually one of my favorite scenes of theirs.

The only possible thing that may put Dean into more of an active role is the idea that Cas needs to keep the tablet away from him. The question is, did Cas mean him or humanity?

I think he's afraid Dean will want to close the gates.

I have to admit I'd enjoy a twist where Dean closes the gates and is suddenly possessed by Michael, who is now planning to rule the Earth.

(I know...)

[ster1]

Overall, I thought it was a fairly solid episode. I loved how Meg called Sam out on not looking for her, even if she eventually got swept up in his telenovela. Her demise was nicely written- kudos for her to standing up to Crowley until to the end.

Looks like it took both Dean's influence and the angel tablet for Cas to break free of Naomi's influence (terrific opening scene of Cas' practice sesssions....*shivers*) Naomi was an idiot if she thought she could overcome the profound bond, lol! I'm just so happy to see the old Cas finally back. Misha did a great job with creepy brainwashed Cas but I hope the show just lets Cas be Cas from here on in. I can see why he'd want to protect the tablet from both Naomi and humans, though. I think it'll lead to some interesting challenges for him in the coming episodes.

But as awesome as it is that Dean inspired the upteenth character to shake off an evil supernatural influence and as ready as Dean is to carry his adult brother for the upteenth season, I find it mind boggling that's all the show can come up with for such an iconic character. So many fans speculated Dean would be equally connected to the angel tablet to mirror Sam's Trials of Woe, and that turned out to be a big pile of nothing. At least, though, I give the writers credit for now openly admitting that Dean really is just a mytharc sidekick/support character like Samwise and Han Solo. Truth in advertising is always the best policy, I say. Sam's the plot driving lead, Dean is there to hold little Sammy's hand and wipe his fevered brow....that's just how this show rolls.

Oh, forgot to add, yay! on the return of the classic rock! That was pretty cool.

[Skinner]

- Megstiel makes me feel dirty, and not in the good way. It's a shame, because I really like Rachel Miner's performance in the role, and she and Misha were practically electric in the wrist-wrapping scene, but I can't just get behind the characters being together. I know pretty much every character on the show has committed at least one near-unforgivable (or straight-up unforgivable) action, but her "redemption" has consisted of Dean and Sam looking at each other, shrugging their shoulders and going, "What other choice do we have?", Cas wanting to make out with her, and any mention of "Uh, demon? She's tried to kill us a bunch of times, and kind of killed our friends and a bunch of other innocent people and possessed Sam...." is met with "OMG, SHUT UP, YOU BIGOT!"

- Guh, even though it was pretty much a "Swan Song" redux, when Dean was pleading with Castiel during the beatdown and eventually just went into "I need you....I need you.....We're family....I need you," I damn started crying. Misha and Jensen were so great in that scene. I also liked the contrast of Dean getting through to Sam by promising "I'm here" (always the protective, providing big brother) while with Cas it was the same open, vulnerable plea that got through to him in Purgatory.
Cas might be Meg's unicorn, but Dean is Cas' -- always and always.

- Speaking of unicorns, so we're not done with awesomest, super-sparkliest truest love EVAH of Sam and Amelia?!

Oh, and Amelia is so coming back. So, yay. We get more Samelia to go with everything else! Sigh.

I think you're right (frowny face). There goes my theory that once Amelia turned away from the empty motel room, she finally suffered the consequences of Sam's Killer Penis and got hit by a bus.

- Loved the Naomi and Crowley scene. I started to wonder if she was a turncoat demon (going on the fan speculation that her scenes aren't really in Heaven), but that doesn't seem to be the case.

- Random thought: Why was Cas riding a bus? At first I thought his break from Naomi's control made him start to de-power, but he was able to flutter away from Dean in the crypt. Does using his powers allow other angels to sense his presence?

Either way, awesome song for the closing sequence.

"The Rudy Hobbit always gets a pass!"

[kalikimaki]

To be fair, Sam broke Lucifer's control to save Dean, so I don't think there's any difference between him and the other people Dean loves on this issue. In fact, I'd probably say his was the most impressive feat of the bunch.

As far as I remember, no he didn't. The toy soldier that popped out of the writer's ass is what broke Lucifer's control over Sam, not Dean.

[StephanieZ]

I actually found the Megstiel stuff sort of touching. Granted I DID just go back and rewatch a bunch of their scenes from season 7, plus the "pizza man" incident, and I really enjoyed their chemistry in those. I am pissed that Meg died for several reasons, not the least of which is that I felt like her being aligned with the boys and Castiel's obvious attraction to her was one more thing to help Cas stay on the straight and narrow, not to mention one more person who cared where Cas goes and what he does, as I'm feeling more and more like Dean is over it. That last scene where Cas breaks Naomi's hold was amazing, but on the whole, the Profound Bond feels weak. I know Dean cares for Cas, but I want him to do more than care. I want him to fight for his angel.

The ending doesn't bode well for me either. Now Cas is apparently free from Naomi's mind control, and he still doesn't want to be around Dean? He doesn't know why, but he has to protect the tablet? Excellent. Once again he's acting on some unknown imperative. Once again he has no agency of his own. I'm tired of robocas.

[zombooni]

So disappointed though, that apparently Naomi didn't get Dean out of Purgatory,

I never for one second thought anyone was trying to get Dean out, they were always trying to get Cas, and the moment I saw Naomi and Crowley together, that just proved it for me. It would be easier for something hellish to work their way in, put the bug in Benny's ear, then wait for Dean's loyalty to do the rest, and Naomi must have been livid when Cas decided to stay behind.

[MonaLavender]

Ugh, I hate it when TV shows do stupid things. If Castiel wanted to take the angel tablet from Dean, he could have just taken it. He's an angel for Pete's sake, what could Dean have done to stop him? So all that crap about Cas having to kill Dean was just that, crap.

Edited by MonaLavender, Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:24 PM.

[kara714]

I want him to do more than care. I want him to fight for his angel.

Dean fought for Cas for an entire year in purgatory, even though that seems to have bit him in the ass. I'd say that scorecard is at least even.

[steve91199]

Ugh, I hate it when TV shows do stupid things. If Castiel wanted to take the angel tablet from Dean, he could have just taken it. He's an angel for Pete's sake, what could Dean have done to stop him? So all that crap about Cas having to kill Dean was just that, crap.

I think that was more about Naomi wanting power over Cas. He's one of the only angels left, he's incredibly powerful and knowledgeable, he's also incredibly dangerous. The only way to have full power over Cas was always to have him kill Dean.

That last scene where Cas breaks Naomi's hold was amazing, but on the whole, the Profound Bond feels weak. I know Dean cares for Cas, but I want him to do more than care. I want him to fight for his angel.

I think the only person who can fight for Cas is himself. I feel like Dean has really tried this season, but how much can he do when Cas has been controlled. And now they have the angel tablet that may cause some distance between them.

It's kind of sad, because the various Heaven and Hell subplots were initially the only thing that brought them together. Now I think they're the only thing keeping them apart.

Back to Naomi, I wish they hadn't needed to say she and Crowley had slept together. I know that's generally a woman's role on Supernatural but I'd rather see Naomi as being above that mess.

Dean fought for Cas for an entire year in purgatory, even though that seems to have bit him in the ass.

I think it's one of the things that saved his life. Cas was probably getting out no matter what, whether he wanted to or not. He had a year of seeing how much Dean truly needed him. Then when he got back he realized Dean had been so upset at Cas wanting to stay behind that he'd blocked out those memories. That's the type of stuff which probably kept Cas stable when he had to deal with programming that forced him to kill Dean over and over and over.

Edited by steve91199, Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:53 PM.

[Lemuria]

Back to Naomi, I wish they hadn't needed to say she and Crowley had slept together. I know that's generally a woman's role on Supernatural but I'd rather see Naomi as being above that mess.

I didn't like that, either. For the reason you mention, as well as for another reason: What's with the angel-demon hookups here? Why should an angel give a demon the time of day (as the saying goes)? When Uriel and early Cas called demons "abominations," you really believed they meant it. As they should, IMO.

[katierose295]

Cas might be Meg's unicorn, but Dean is Cas' -- always and always.

My grinchy heart grew three sizes when Cas broke free of Naomi's control because of Dean. I can't believe that Sam was surprised that Dean prayed to Cas. Dude, how do you not know that your brother talks to his angel, all the time? And WTF was Naomi thinking telling Cas it was heaven or Dean? Bitch, go talk to Zach or Uriel and see which side Cas is going to come down on.

Second, why does Dean believe Castiel is not trustworthy except when it comes to the most important thing. His family. So, he questions him on everything, but what really counts. That, he blindly accepts Castiel's words as the gospel truth.

If I had to guess, it's because Dean loves Cas at a very deep level. With that kind of love, sometimes logic doesn't mean much. Dean might know that Cas is lying or that something weird is going on with the tablets. But, when it comes to something personal --something like Sam's health-- Dean believes that Cas will have his back. He just believes it. Especially, after season 7 and how much Cas went through to repair Sam and win back Dean's friendship.

I also think it was interesting that Dean barely hit Cas back or tried to defend himself. He never doubted that Cas "wasn't himself" or that real Cas was in there, trying to break free. He was basically trying to get through to Cas the whole time. He trusted Cas even when Cas was beating him to death.

[StephanieZ]

Dean fought for Cas for an entire year in purgatory, even though that seems to have bit him in the ass. I'd say that scorecard is at least even.

Exactly. The first half of the season established that Dean would fight for him, but nothing as of late feels true to that. I understand that Dean has Sam to worry about right now, and whatever is (was?) happening with Cas is above his pay-grade, but I at least wanted him to want to tear up heaven when he found out Cas was being mind-raped.