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4-10: "Get Drew" 2013.03.12


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#91

BakerX2

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Posted Mar 17, 2013 @ 8:19 PM

Aside from the issue of Art´s job, which a lot of us think won´t come into play until later on, i think the season will end up putting in place 2 issues for next season:

Boyd-Dixie Mafia: regardless of what happens with Ava, he is getting into a seriously precarious position with the mafia. I think these plot issues have been obviously laid out during the season while the Drew mystery played out.


I think it goes beyond Boyd at this point. Tonin and the Detroit Syndicate (which IIRC is separate group from the Dixie Mafia folk, as far as Duffy and the Dixie Mafia being beholden to Tonen the same way Boyd and his family were beholden to the Dixie Mafia types) are hanging over everyone and I would be shocked if they are the new big bad that will hover over the series these last two seasons.

Tim-Colton: if Tim ends up putting him down (which may be a bit of a given, i dont think Colton will survive the season, since ep 1), there is no way it is going to be simple or clean. Rachel or Art or Raylan may know something is up, or even be there to see it (i can see Tim not giving a shit if Raylan is there). i don´t think they can have Tim fully deal with the issue in 3 eps to go. So the real fall-out may be left for next season.


BUT, if they gave him [Tim] a storyline this season just to kill him off? I will cut something.


I think Tim could be dead man walking; not just because of the sudden storyline they are granting him, but because it would create something for Rachel (wanting to avenge Tim, perhaps pursuing Colton and looking for the perfect moment to kill him in cold blood) and because it would create an even bigger shitstorm between Raylan and Boyd to explain away why the two men would be blood enemies, in terms of Raylan knowing that by sparing Boyd in the pilot, he set into motion Colton coming to Harlan and killing Tim as part of Boyd's criminal enterprise, which would never of existed if Raylan put Boyd six feet under.

I don't really get the Limehouse as "banker" thing. What service does he provide? He doesn't launder money or pay interest. He isn't trustworthy, witness him "changing the terms" of the hostage deal. Seems much more trouble than he's worth. How many local criminals have enough money that they need such a "bank"? If he hides money in pig carcasses heck I'll take my chances and hide my own money out in the woods under a rock thanks.


Hiding it in the woods can be riskier; putting your cash with Limehouse, who lives in a section of the county few dare to enter, seems like a safer bet. Especially if you are a criminal in Harlan and can't hide your money in other ways that would be available if you were in a big city and had money men laundering it for you.

#92

mrk63

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 5:16 AM

Locally, any goods DT has on Boyd goes right back to himself. Boyd has-or will have- the goods on Theo and his living hitment and holds the trump cards on just about everyone else of interest in Harlan, including judges. Boyd may be the one who ends in WitSec, where there are many good people but a few monsters as well.


Unless Shelby/Drew has something on paper on Tonin, how could it pass to Boyd? Anything DT told anyone would just be hearsay. Boyd might be able to take down Duffy, but I doubt he could connect Tonin to anything at all. Tonin is too smart for that.

IMO DT is spineless because in spite of all the sacrifices for him, he is ready to spill at the drop of Raylan's hat. Mosley is ready to meet his fate or die rather than spill the beans.


But there's a difference...for Mosely, it's a matter of honor and a debt to Shelby for helping him out of a jam. Drew Thompson owes nothing to Theo Tonin. Shelby/Drew is basically ratting on himself, as well as Tonin. Not the same thing as Mosely at all.

#93

Atomic Clock

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 9:52 AM

Agreed, Mrk63. Shelby's not a coward in the least. I saw pragmatism in his last-ditch gambit to get Colt to kill him. There was genuine fear when he was begging Colt to end it for him. What sane person would choose death by torture if he thought he could find a quicker way out?

Let's also not forget that Shelby would've made a clean getaway if he'd not stopped to get Ellen May. The character is a shade more sympathetic than others because he's performed a selfless, noble act for someone in need. There was a zero sum gain in his taking Ellen May with him other than to save her life.

I'm on the Jim Beaver awesomeness train. But then, I think Ron Eldard is awesome and I have no sympathy for Colt. Come to think of it...I can't recall a single actor on this show who hasn't done an amazing job.


Edited by Atomic Clock, Mar 18, 2013 @ 9:53 AM.


#94

rivermet

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 11:47 AM

It wasn't just the comment on the panties that made me think Rachel was flirting. A few minutes before she specifically told Raylan he was "easy on the eyes" and then the panties comment wasn't to the group as a haha - it was under her breath, to the side so only Raylan could hear.

#95

WindyWords

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 4:54 PM

It wasn't just the comment on the panties that made me think Rachel was flirting. A few minutes before she specifically told Raylan he was "easy on the eyes" and then the panties comment wasn't to the group as a haha - it was under her breath, to the side so only Raylan could hear.


After rewatching, yes, it was under her breath, but more along the lines of "btw, asshole, you called them ´whore´ but i happen to own the same ones... asshole"

#96

mrk63

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 5:07 PM

After rewatching, yes, it was under her breath, but more along the lines of "btw, asshole, you called them ´whore´ but i happen to own the same ones... asshole"


LOL. Yeah, that's how I hear it, too. Pleeeeeaaaaase...no Raylan/Rachel.

#97

DrJoy

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 6:41 PM

DrJoy wrote:

Locally, any goods DT has on Boyd goes right back to himself. Boyd has-or will have- the goods on Theo and his living hitment and holds the trump cards on just about everyone else of interest in Harlan, including judges. Boyd may be the one who ends in WitSec, where there are many good people but a few monsters as well.


mrk63 wrote:

Unless Shelby/Drew has something on paper on Tonin, how could it pass to Boyd? Anything DT told anyone would just be hearsay. Boyd might be able to take down Duffy, but I doubt he could connect Tonin to anything at all. Tonin is too smart for that.


Thanks for your reply. But note that I did not write that Drewby had 'goods' (i.e., info) on Tonin to pass to Boyd, on paper or otherwise. My point was that probably the only useful 'goods' Drewby has to offer about anyone would be against Boyd. And even then, DT has precious little of value (if anything at all) about Boyd to give to prosecutors in which he was not also intricately involved. Drewby was not privy to any Boyd/Ava conversations about the plot to murder Ellen Mae. Whatever info DT had against TT before 1983 likely cannot be corroborated, and he has had no contact since.

Colton (unless he is dispatched to a place where he is beyond testifying) would be eviscerated by any defense lawyer Theo Tonin would have, just as said lawyer would do the same to Drewby.

Granted Boyd does not have much at this point, what with no money and no muscle. But as Boyd increasingly gets himself in deep with Detroit (via Nick), he gains in knowledge that he can use against them as well as to bargain. He partially defanged the Clover Hill bunch. Sometimes you just need to scatter the sheep and rams (Wynn and Nick) to make it easier to get to the shepherd.

But there's a difference...for Mosely, it's a matter of honor and a debt to Shelby for helping him out of a jam. Drew Thompson owes nothing to Theo Tonin. Shelby/Drew is basically ratting on himself, as well as Tonin. Not the same thing as Mosely at all.


I take your point, but I was not comparing Drewby's standing with Mosley vs with Theo. I was interpreting Drewby's statement "I will tell you everything" (paraphrasing) to mean to be about a lot of things/people including, of course, his own story. He did not mention Theo Tonin specifically. It is just that I think what he now has to offer may no longer be useful.

ETA: He actually said, "..get me outta here and I'll tell you whatever you want."

I also have no sympathy for Colton. I am not in favor of any Rachel/Raylan shipping.

Edited by DrJoy, Mar 18, 2013 @ 7:21 PM.


#98

Cosmosgravitati

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 8:18 PM

Let's also not forget that Shelby would've made a clean getaway if he'd not stopped to get Ellen May.


Wouldn't Shelby have been arrested when he went to the airfield for his plane? The only reason they weren't was because a woman (Ellen May) was driving so the Marshals let them go.

But he had no way of knowing that, he was clearly trying to save her life so I think your point remains.

Edited by Cosmosgravitati, Mar 18, 2013 @ 8:19 PM.


#99

SJ82

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 8:44 PM

Sometimes you just need to scatter the sheep and rams (Wynn and Nick) to make it easier to get to the shepherd.

This reminds me of the immortal words of Dewey Crowe:

You might strike out the shepherd, but us sheep, we will never get struck out. Or scattered.

I really miss the wit and wisdom of Dewey Crowe.

I don't know who's going to do it, but I doubt that Drewby will get out of Harlan alive. Elmore Leonard's lawmen protagonists don't get to rise to the top of their profession, so I don't think Raylan will get a career boost out of taking Drewby in. I also think that Tim will take a clear-eyed Colt out. But they better not kill Tim or Art in the process because I'm not sure I want to watch a show without two of my favorite characters.

#100

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Posted Mar 18, 2013 @ 11:32 PM

A third way would be if Raylan sacrifices any hope of the case advancing his career and solidifying some sort of legacy outside being a loose cannon, to let Drew escape, when put into a situation where he can either let Drew run or save another life (say, a wounded Tim/Rachel/Art) or get an even bigger fish (Tonin's hitman). The former makes more sense if they are going to tease someone dying. Not to mention, if it is Tim or Rachel hit, create some drama with Art over Raylan putting emotion over logic by allowing Drew to escape in order to save his friend's life.

Especially if it's Tim, who per his implied fucked up mental state, would be pissed off beyond belief that Raylan refused his "dying request" to catch Drew and got him the medical help needed to save his life instead. Tim revealing a death wish and Raylan refusing to let it come true could make for a hell of a scene with regards to Raylan dealing with the sudden revelation that Tim hates his life so much that he longs for the sweet relief of death but is too much of a coward to do himself in, in dark humor fashion.

#101

giubbo

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 12:02 PM

What I actually miss of the Whole season is the premise:
Who and why ordered to Roz to search for the bag in Arlo's house?

#102

OmahaMtLion

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 12:43 PM

I thought Gerald McRaney ordered the search for the bag. We don't know who ordered Gerald McRaney, but I assume Arlo got word to somebody? Given that Arlo's dead and McRaney's off the show at this point, we'll probably never know. It's like that one guy who dies in The Big Sleep and Chandler killed off everybody who would have known what happened and never bothered to sort out what happened to him.

ETA: For me, the Drew Thompson "mystery" didn't work as a mystery plot. As a plot device that was designed to stir up a lot of trouble in Harlan and get everybody chasing after the same target, it worked just fine. I think it's better to view Season 4 as, I don't know, a hard-boiled crime story rather than a mystery story, where you'd care about intricate plotting and how the red herrings and clues were laid out for the viewer. Judged by the standards of a mystery story, Season 4's pretty weak, but it's been a solid crime story.

Edited by OmahaMtLion, Mar 19, 2013 @ 12:48 PM.


#103

Atomic Clock

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 12:55 PM

No one ordered Josiah to get the bag. Josiah wanted his daughter and her boyfriend to retrieve it because he was going to give up Drew in exchange for his release from house arrest. The mystery is kind of convoluted, but I think Josiah sparked the whole mess.

Still not clear on why Arlo killed to cover up for Drew, or why he wouldn't trade Drew's identity for a lighter prison sentence. It seems to contradict everything we know about the character.



#104

OmahaMtLion

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 1:12 PM

I thought we were supposed to believe McRaney tried to set up Raylan to get killed so he would be able to leverage Drew Thompson in order to get his release from house arrest, not that he initially ordered the bag retrieval to get his release. He could have done the latter by just tattling to the authorities that Drew Thompson was alive and Hunter Mosley knew where he was.

I assumed only Arlo would have known exactly where the bag was, so he would have had to get word out to McRaney to get the bag before the house was sold and possibly renovated. Having the whole mess sparked by Arlo going to prison for trying to kill Raylan, essentially, would make more sense thematically for the show than for it to have been sparked by some random guest star.

But, again, I think there are a lot of steps to the mystery plot that are pretty confused for the viewer. A lot of holes just not filled in.

ETA:

Still not clear on why Arlo killed to cover up for Drew, or why he wouldn't trade Drew's identity for a lighter prison sentence. It seems to contradict everything we know about the character.

I think we're meant to believe Arlo has some sense of loyalty to his former cohorts. And a lighter sentence is probably somewhat meaningless to a man who's got one foot out the door anyway. Also, Arlo and Bo ripped off the Detroit mob and the Colombians when they helped out Drew Thompson and sold on his cocaine. So killing that one dude was probably an attempt to protect himself as well by heading off an inquiry into Waldo Truth.

ETA2: Rereading the recaps, I assume we're meant to believe Arlo told his lawyer to tell Josiah to get and presumably dispose of the bag without telling Josiah why it was important. That's what I'm going with at the moment. But, you know, confusing.

Edited by OmahaMtLion, Mar 19, 2013 @ 1:33 PM.


#105

Leroyiscrazy

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 2:23 PM

This is what writer VJ Boyd had to say about the bag in Arlo's wall:

Q: Are we going to find out why the hell Arlo had the bag in the wall?

A: Arlo had the bag with Waldo’s ID in the wall as insurance against Drew. He and Bo took all of Drew’s cocaine and money in exchange for setting him up with a new fake life and identity in Harlan/taking him up to the hill people to recover from his injuries. The idea is Drew knew Arlo still had physical evidence connecting him to his past/connecting the body to a person other than Drew. This kept Drew under their thumb to a degree. Arlo decided to get the stuff pulled out of the wall to try and make a deal at the beginning of the season because he’s old now and really, really, didn’t want to stay in prison. Also he was an asshole.

#106

DrJoy

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 3:04 PM

At this point, I don’t believe we will get a connect-the-dots explanation. The writers give one interpretation here, another one there, and it does not all mesh. This DT plot confusion has been buggin me all along. The writing team struggled with it, changed their minds and, once a decision was made, attempted to retrofit the mystery to and around Shelby, imperfect as it is. But they have my admiration for how they have proceeded since, emphasizing the human consequences and ripples from the events. Just don’t look too closely at the plot mechanics *winkwink*.

I’m still not clear that Arlo even remembered the bag in the wall. He seemed shocked when Raylan showed it to him. Roz admitted that Josiah sent her and the boy to retrieve it. If Josiah knew about the bag, then it is not just Bo and Arlo in one the secret. Josiah is now in WitSec, but doubt we will hear further from him.

Arlo protecting DT never made any sense to me unless it was in the context of protecting some larger secret and/or person (?Frances). By directly protecting Frances and himself primarily, indirectly he protects Raylan (certainly not Arlo’s intent). As for Mosley (who hated Bo and Arlo) and his oath, well..I’m not convinced. These folks were bound by something larger that has not yet been revealed to us. Otherwise, the overall scheme does not bear close scrutiny.

I cannot believe that all the sacrifices made were just to protect DT, who actually was more valuable dead: Drewby had nothing further to offer after the money/drugs ran out. Turning this outsider in to Tonin would have bought Bo more money and drugs, just as he attempted to do by widening his enterprise with Gio. Why keep his secret? If Arlo kept the bag for insurance, per VJ Boyd, then they held the trump card, not Drewby, who was already past his expiration date on arrival, being of no use to any of them (no connections) other than later as a plant in a law enforcement office.

I just recalled (I’m not sure if the writers did, LOL) that Ellen Mae may be on camera in the attempted robbery of the loan office in which a guard was killed, a teller shot, and one of Delroy’s girls shot. If identified, she can be charged with felony-murder. EM told Ava about this (mostly off-camera) before Delroy showed up later and was shot by Ava. Should she survive, EM can be compelled to keep silent by Ava reminding EM about this vs. EM being compelled by the feds to give up Ava and Boyd in return for dropping the f/m charge, as if she did not already have enough reason to do so because of them taking Shelby from her.

The question came up about the Marshal’s seizing Limehouse’s money. Raylan admitted to Loretta that he and Limehouse did come to an agreement about the seizure of Mags’ money. Limehouse gave Raylan Dickie Bennet. In 3.10 or 3.11, Rachel and Tim were listening in on Dickie, Limehouse’s man and some other folks (?) discussing Mags’ money and the $$ in the cooler. They seized that money, but were waiting on a federal warrant to removw it and to go seize what they believed was money hidden under a church in Noble’s Holler. I can’t be sure that warrant entitled them to seize the money in Limehouse’s piggy banks and elsewhere since a specific location was named in the warrant. Perhaps there is a law-trained person here who can answer that.

BTW, was Charlie (Marshal property guard in the courthouse) ever considered to be DT? He absconded to the Mexican border with the money initially taken by Winona. Did Yost ever refer to him as a candidate? Maybe they forgot.

Edited by DrJoy, Mar 19, 2013 @ 3:07 PM.


#107

mrk63

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Posted Mar 19, 2013 @ 4:06 PM

I haven't found this season to be convoluted at all. I have been thoroughly entertained. I think it's one hell of a ride, and quite possibly the best season yet, topping even S2. I'll withhold judgement until it's all over, but right now I am leaning that way.

#108

NoWillToResist

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Posted Mar 20, 2013 @ 9:42 AM

I would just like to take the opportunity to thank Rachel for saying that she had the same underwear that Raylan labelled as "whore's" underwear.

I honestly had to pause the episode to express my disbelief at his description. From what I saw, they were green lace panties. I know Harlan county is, uh, how can I put this, not on the cutting edge of modernity or equality and all that, but I was floored that RAYLAN of all people would see those and think "ooh, those are CRAZY, WANTON undies!". Like, seriously? You tellin' me that Ava and his ex-wife are the cotton, granny-panty wearing kind? Sorry but I don't think so.

I think Raylan was the wrong person to spout that line. I wouldn't have been surprised if maybe Art who, one could at least argue could be old-fashioned, had said it.

And speaking of Art, his little rundown of Drew's badassery was fucking awesome and hilarious. I want that on a shirt or immortalized in some way because it deserves to be re-read/re-heard many, many times.

I love the team of Marshalls. Tim, Raylan, Art and Rachel have such a wonderful camaraderie. I fucking love them. We don't see them together enough, IMO.

#109

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Posted Apr 22, 2013 @ 12:48 PM

Way late because RL means I can't keep up with my shows.

Anyway, I didn't take Raylan's like about 'whore' panties to be a statement on the kinds of panties good women wear. IIRC he knew they were EM's, he called them that because of her profession. Why he couldn't just say they were EM's I don't know since it does come as NoWillToResist said. Methinks it was a way for Rachel to have that line.

I'm on board for whatever Raylan/Rachel the writers go with provided if it's Raylan/Rachel sexytimes he gets it together and/or they are FWB and it doesn't get complicated because it doesn't have to get complicated. I took some of their interactions as flirting, good natured, all in fun. Perhaps there's an undercurrent of actual attraction, both are easy on the eyes after all. Perhaps nots. TPTB need to keep it up.

Agreed with whoever said they could watch a whole episode of Raylan reacting to people. He's got the faces. His reactions to Rachel are alway priceless.

Loved this episode! Art's speech was a highlight because when you lay it all out, what Drew accomplished was awesome. Not in a good way but 'holy shit, can you believe it?' kind way. Bad people do awesome things. I'm still quite confused on why he was able to make a life so long in Harlan and what really prompted this whole mess to come to light. Still it's been a great ride thus far. JB has been awesome!

I agree with those that feel some sympathy for EM and Colt. I even felt some sympathy for Ava because I think part of geniunely doesn't want to see harm come to EM.

I honestly though the exchange between Ava and Boyd would've been reversed. I was surprised Boyd wanted EM. That put Boyd in a new light for me. Willing to sacrifice it all for Ava. Didn't see that coming, proposal and all.

Looking forward to the next episode! I love Team Marshall!