139 replies to this topic

[TWoP Lockley]

A cop who practices witchcraft is plagued by nightmares in which he kills innocent people. When the murders actually happen, Sam and Dean are called in to investigate.

As usual (but because it apparently cannot be said often enough:

• Be polite to one another. In fact, if you think you are already being polite, be MORE polite.
• No tit-for-tat back and forth about who did what to whom and why. You're just repeating yourselves. Let people say their piece, accept it if it's different from yours, then move along.
• STAY ON TOPIC. Take in-depth discussion of past events/future speculation and general bitching about the writers/writing/plots for Dean to the appropriate threads.
• No whining. Please be interesting and informed when you post.
• If you didn't watch the episode, you are welcome to READ this thread, but do not post here. If you have recently "quit" watching this show out of protest please post cautiously ANYWHERE in the Supernatural forums.

[Tippi Blevins]

Holy crap.

That was a world of wrong.

[sallysweeet]

That was awful. I want that hour of my life back.

[Sudoka]

They've been fighting evil for how long and this is the first time they've ever heard of a witches "familiar"? I knew that crap in grade school!
10 year old me would have been an awesome hunter.

[amazinglybored]

That episode was so wrong in so many ways, and it managed to piss me off too. Congrats twisted writer.

[Tippi Blevins]

I can't stop having the willies long enough to write the recaplet. From the "master" thing, to the sex... Even the Winchester rehash was awful. The least gross thing about it was watching people explode with blood.

[Sudoka]

Also, did Dean hate dogs before Yellow Fever?
I know he didn't want dogs in the Impala for obvious reasons (stinking/scratching up the upholstery), but I can't recall if he hated them before that as well.

[zombooni]

Ain't inter-species love grand? I could have guessed to wrote this even if I hadn't read the credits.

I really liked that they touched base on a previous case. I often wonder how the people in peril make out after the Winchesters leave them, but all of this was painfully predictable.

I'd really, really like to know why Dean doesn't seem to know squat about a supernatural entity he supposedly hates so much and encounters so often. That's just carelessness for someone whose life depends on being prepared, but I suppose they had to get some comedy in this somehow and Dean's always the go-to guy for that. Sue me, but I thought Jensen did a lot of unnecessary over-acting to force the comedy.

How very convenient that Bobby left something behind entitled "How to Give a Witch False Memories" Subtle much?

Spencer was, to me anyway, telegraphed way too early as the bad guy, but I really liked Portia both as the Dobe (sweet), and as the lady (lovely). I thought the guest actors were very good,

So Dean announces that he trusts Sam, which is beyond me, and Sam promptly coughs up blood. My money's on him not telling Dean, and that's not a great way to keep that trust.

Edited by zombooni, Feb 21, 2013 @ 12:19 AM.

[kara714]

Holy crap.

That was a world of wrong.

Wow, that was ... I'm speechless at how badly written that was in terms of OOCness, continuity and just plain bad dialogue...and then there is the incredibly squicky racial parallels of it all. This show is an embarrassment.

[MichaelaBelle]

Just awful. I'm managed to be both offended and bored. Utter crap.

[amazinglybored]

Also, did Dean hate dogs before Yellow Fever?

I think that's a killed by a hellhound -and maybe hell-result, kudos to the show for remembering that, bravo. I was actually surprised when they deigned to reference Dean going to hell.

Sam once again proves to be self absorbed to the nth degree, and still unworthy of trust. I don't even know if they were trying to be funny with the whole 'Dean trusts Sue again. Sue spits up blood and doesn't say anything' moment, or that was a genuine, 'Dean can totally trust Sue, look at his awesomeness, suffering silently but honestly because omission isn't lying' scene.

Dean was dumbed down again, but him being the only one disturbed by the beastiality element kind of makes up for that. I liked the actress but couldn't stand her instant bitchiness towards Dean (instant bitch in general, why must you write women like that show?) and all of what she represented in the show creeped me out to much to ever really get past that.

Poorly written and an obvious villain. St. Louis..... haven't some pretty big and televised things happened there in the show.... continuity is a bitch.... but not like this writer means it.


Twisted list:
- beastiality
- slavery
- woman = pet

Edited by amazinglybored, Feb 20, 2013 @ 10:38 PM.

[skeeter22]

I really don't understand this show when it comes to comes to dealing with women and minorities. It's like they go out of their way to be awful and insensitive. I thought this episode was repulsive on several levels.

[Tippi Blevins]

Oh, and in a truly disgusting twist of fate, today is National Love Your Pet Day.

I'm going to go get drunk now.

[Kojuro]

That was AWFUL. Really terrible. Out of characterness(Dean doesn't know what a familiar is among other things when he's generally been shown to be quite familiar with witchy stuff?) But the real problematic stuff was things like a black woman "belonging" to a white guy, being chained up? Seriously show? And Sam's going to lie about his "symptoms" I'm sure which is so not a way to earn or keep trust, though I'm sure he'll be considered noble for it within the show.

Well Dean was pretty, had issues with bestiality(yay) and seemed uncomfortable with the idea of ownership(yay again). That's about the only positive thing about this episode.

Also, did Dean hate dogs before Yellow Fever?
I know he didn't want dogs in the Impala for obvious reasons (stinking/scratching up the upholstery), but I can't recall if he hated them before that as well.

No in fact Dean seemed fond of dogs. This "hating dogs" is pretty new and inexplicable - because it isn't related to Hell. He didn't even hate them in Yellow Fever. That was just the "disease" talking, he "felt" like he was being chased by a Hellhound. He didn't hate them in that episode with the Skinwalker from Season 6 or 7(can't remember which it was) and that was well after Hell.

But prior to Hell one of his deaths in Mystery Spot was because he saw a Golden Retriever waiting on the sidewalk and went all "Oh puppy, let me pet you!!", he sounded like he was very fond of petting dogs. So I think it's safe to say that Dean liked dogs and had no issue with dogs at all prior to Hell. Then after Hell the memory of being ripped apart by hellhounds gave him some slight lingering fear, which was always very subtly portrayed - like in one episode he had to walk past a german shepherd on some outdoor stairs I think it was and his face showed the slightest hesitation but he didn't seem to have an issue with dogs in general.

So this sudden strong hate for dogs is new.

Edited by Kojuro, Feb 20, 2013 @ 10:51 PM.

[Observe]

I thought this show couldn't stoop any lower than the wedding episode but this was awful, and offensive, and badly acted by all.

Well Dean was pretty, that's about the only positive thing about this episode.

MTE.

Edited by Observe, Feb 20, 2013 @ 10:42 PM.

[ster1]

Oy, oy, oy....that was just horrible.

Also, did Dean hate dogs before Yellow Fever?

No, he was quite friendly with the dog in Mystery Spot. I'd like to assume this change in Dean's attitude is post Hell hound trauma. But alas, I'm throwing it in the same "canon? what canon?" bucket as the writers forgetting Dean wasn't allergic to cats in "Truth" or that St Louis is a particularly hot spot for Dean and law enforcement.

[kara714]

There is also the issue of Dean suddenly not feeling any loyalty to someone who apparently saved his life. I don't think these particular writers have ever actually watched an episode of the show.

[KnitTzu]

It's not often that I'm both deeply offended and utterly bored at the same time, so... grats, SPN.

[Sudoka]

I'm at least glad that Benny was name checked this week. Hopefully that bodes well for a future appearance.

[Lemuria]

I feel like a reverse Elizabeth Barrett Browning: "How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways."

How many different ways are there of saying, "Wow, that was a piece of crap." Bad as the writer was, there's an even bigger problem that we've commented on before: Do none of the writers actually watch the show? Do they never talk to each other about what they're writing? There's no consistency, no continuity. You'd think they'd be embarrassed. Last week, just as a small example, Dean was a "genius" at lore; this week, he doesn't even know what a witch's familiar is (despite having run up against any number of them over the years, and being able to recognize a witch's garden because of the plants in it).

I admit I thought it was a tad arrogant for Sam to say that they didn't even know what the second trial was, but whatever, he would be ready. Sam knows--he doesn't even hope; based on what he said here, he knows--he'll be ready for it even though he has no clue what it is; unfortunately I genuinely get the feeling that he doesn't think Dean would be (something he's come out and said before) because I don't see a sea change in Sam's attitude. (I didn't buy Sam's speech to Dean last week--we've heard it before and it's never meant anything--and this week seemed to be a reversion to the feelings we've seen from Sam before.)

Sam's dialogue about Dean's not trusting him (Sam) because Dean doesn't trust anyone but himself? Sam, have you met Dean? Mr. No Self-Esteem, Everything That Goes Wrong Is My Fault, I've Failed Everyone I've Cared About, thinks that he, and only he, can do the trials? Shakespeare was right: "He who is giddy thinks the world turns 'round." Methinks you need to take a good look in the mirror, Sam; that ain't Dean's face looking back.

(And no matter how many times the writers use the word "mature" with Sam, I won't buy it until Sam demonstrates true maturity. Where he steps up and acknowledges when he's been wrong and takes accountability for his actions and words. Because a good part of why Dean may have trouble trusting Sam could be Sam's actions and words and lies.)

Speaking of the trials, what kind of an idiot is God? (What am I saying? This is the same being who thought creating the Leviathans would be a good idea.) Why set trials in the first place? Why not just, "Here's the way the close them. Go to it." But that's not all. Let's make the "champion" sick, too, so that it's that much harder to accomplish the task? Hey, Deadbeat Dad, do you want the gates of Hell closed or not?

Edited by Lemuria, Feb 20, 2013 @ 11:44 PM.

[Observe]

there's an even bigger problem that we've commented on before: Do none of the writers actually watch the show? Do they never talk to each other about what they're writing? There's no consistency, no continuity. You'd think they'd be embarrassed. Last week, just as a small example, Dean was a "genius" at lore; this week, he doesn't even know what a witch's familiar is (despite having run up against any number of them over the years, and being able to recognize a witch's garden because of the plants in it).

This. It's starting to boggle my mind. Is there no script supervisor on this show? Does no one involved with it have any pride or investment in their product/craft?

[kara714]

Sam's little rant about Dean's not trusting him (Sam) because Dean doesn't trust anyone but himself? Sam, have you met Dean? Mr. No Self-Esteem, Everything That Goes Wrong Is My Fault, I've Failed Everyone I've Cared About, thinks that he, and only he, can do the trials? Shakespeare was right: "He who is giddy thinks the world turns 'round." Methinks you need to take a good look in the mirror, Sam; that ain't Dean's face looking back.

There is also the fact that Sam knows exactly why Dean doesn't trust him since Dean kindly listed all the reasons while he was possessed by a ghost. Sam certainly seemed to think Dean was serious then since he got all huffy and defensive and threatened to bail AGAIN if Dean didn't come to heel.

Honestly, I was surprised that they didn't have Dean parrot the familiar's speech about duty to her master or whatever. Seems like they were hitting anvil pretty hard too.

[Parcae3]

That was just...it was...I mean...I can't come up with the words. It was bad on so very many levels.

The fucked with canon (St. Louis, serial killing, Levi Dean and Sam spree, anyone?), they fucked with characterization (Dean the genius is now dumb?), they fucked with their own rules of their world (yes, show, WITCHES ARE BAD! Sell their souls to demons! Only not James, apparently).

And on top of that, they had a woman of color, running around in a dog collar, calling her lover "master" and being owned by said master, a white man. On top of THAT, it was also bestiality.

I mean, REALLY? NO ONE thought "wow, that's pretty horrible. We shouldn't do that."

Well, scratch that. No wonder Jensen looked so squicked out in those video interviews...

And to top it all off, a WOMAN co wrote it.

[gingercharm21]

I've seen every single season, but I don't remember James. Anyone care to refresh my memory?

[supposebly]

It's official: They should not do episodes with dogs unless they're hell hounds. I think the last one with the dog shape shifter was equally offensive.

Who wrote this dreck?

[kara714]

I've seen every single season, but I don't remember James. Anyone care to refresh my memory?

Apparently it happened off screen.

[Parcae3]

@gingercharm21: James never showed up before. Apparently at some point before Dean was branded a serial killer in St. Louis (which was in season 1 "Skin"), they worked with James. And owed him, or something.

@supposebly Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming

[suzieB]

I admit I thought it was a tad arrogant for Sam to say that they didn't even know what the second trial was, but whatever, he would be ready. Sam knows--he doesn't even hope; based on what he said here, he knows--he'll be ready for it even though he has no clue what it is; unfortunately I genuinely get the feeling that he doesn't think Dean would be (something he's come out and said before) because I don't see a sea change in Sam's attitude. (I didn't buy Sam's speech to Dean last week--we've heard it before and it's never meant anything--and this week seemed to be a reversion to the feelings we've seen from Sam before.)

Sam's dialogue about Dean's not trusting him (Sam) because Dean doesn't trust anyone but himself? Sam, have you met Dean? Mr. No Self-Esteem, Everything That Goes Wrong Is My Fault, I've Failed Everyone I've Cared About, thinks that he, and only he, can do the trials? Shakespeare was right: "He who is giddy thinks the world turns 'round." Methinks you need to take a good look in the mirror, Sam; that ain't Dean's face looking back.

(And no matter how many times the writers use the word "mature" with Sam, I won't buy it until Sam demonstrates true maturity. Where he steps up and acknowledges when he's been wrong and takes accountability for his actions and words. Because a good part of why Dean may have trouble trusting Sam could be Sam's actions and words and lies.)

See I couldn't buy Sam's speech I thought that Deans speech made sense because that is Dean and why he wanted to do the trials. And funny how from the interviews that we got Dean still wanting to do them and not wanting Sam to do them. And I like that Dean doesn't trust Sam. After as many times as Sam has said to Dean I got your back especially when Souless Sam; actions speak louder then words I think in Sam's case. I think if Sam actually took the time to apologize to Dean for all the crap he did the demon blood; ruby; going after Benny etc then I think Dean could REALLY TRUST SAM. But right now I think all of Sam's actions are what is making Dean not trust Sam to do the job at hand and why he thinks he can do it. And I like how after Dean gives his speech and what happens Sam starts coughing up blood we know this won't go well. And Sam and mature right now can't go in same sentence.

Ok sorry I did like parts of the eps I think Dean hanging out with the familiar was intresting especially when familiar and James were having sex and you knew Deans mind had to go there. I think Dean was actually the highlight of this eps. JMO.

[zombooni]

Kara beat me to it.

Edited by zombooni, Feb 20, 2013 @ 11:19 PM.

[Lemuria]

I liked the actress but couldn't stand her instant bitchiness towards Dean (instant bitch in general, why must you write women like that show?)

I can't tell you how much her "ignorant bigotry" pissed me off. Really, show, that's what it is? And not the fact that all the witches they've encountered have either been outright evil or sold their souls to Hell or had no problem killing off humans when they had a marital dispute? At least, let Dean respond with something along these lines; it annoys me when they just have him roll over and play dead. (It reminded me of the season 4 nonsense from both Sam and Ruby, that the problem was that Dean was prejudiced against demons and monsters. *Pretend there's a facepalm icon right here! lol*)


One line I did like was when Dean pointed out that Kate and Benny were forced to become what they were, but James actively chose it. I think that undermined sympathy for James, especially as James clearly personally benefited from his powers.

A question I have: I admit that it was hard to really concentrate on this ep, so I'm wondering if I missed how they said James acquired his powers. Did he deal with Hell?

Edited by Lemuria, Feb 20, 2013 @ 11:44 PM.