336 replies to this topic

[TWoP Tennison]

Emma, Henry and Mr. Gold search for Gold's son in New York; Hook, Cora and Regina look for one of Rumplestiltskin's most precious possessions.

Mod Note: Please remember to keep the discussion on topic. Brief mentions of past episodes are fine, as they relate this this episode, but in-depth discussion should go elsewhere. As always, please spell out names and places to avoid confusion. Thanks.

[prodigalchicken]

So, Rumple now wants to kill his own grandson. He just gets nicer and nicer, doesn't he?

[MisterGlass]

This will be Rumple's biggest test, by far. Himself or his grandson.

While I was in no way surprised by the revelation, I thought it was very well done. I'm glad that Bae didn't let Rumple off, and I'm glad that he is going to do his best by Henry.

[Writing Wrongs]

That was a hell of an episode.

Milah was always a bitch.

I can't believe that was what was in the box. So simple, but still so awesome.

I can't believe Rumple wanted to turn Bae back to 14. Did he miss the part about Henry being his son? What an ass.

Edited by Writing Wrongs, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:07 PM.

[MisterGlass]

It was surprisingly simple. It makes me suspect the Blue Fairy in all of this even more. The child Pinocchio would not have known that, which makes me believe he had contact with her before he met Bae, and that she had her memories. I still believe this is all her long con.

[scarlett45]

That was a hell of an episode.

Milah was always a bitch.

I can't believe that was what was in the box. So simple, but still so awesome.

That was a very MEAN and hurtful thing to say. So it would've been better for him to have died on the front lines, leaving her a widow and Bae fatherless, perhaps forcing them into destitution than injuring himself and coming home to at least be there? Could Milah have fought so bravely? War is a terrible thing, and my hats off to anyone who has served but I don't blame Rumple for being scared and being freaked out by the seer's prophecy. Growing up without a father at all, he probably would've given anything to make sure he was there for Bae. Hence running away again when Bae was conscripted.

[mustbekarma]

Oh show, please don't try to make me believe that Rumpelstiltskin would hurt his own grandson. The man crippled himself to be with his son. The man kissed a bully's boot to protect his son. The man made sure an entire universe was cursed to see his son again. Then Bae confronts him with the fact that Rumpelstiltskin chose magic over him.

I love the little piece of the puzzle the Seer gifted him with. I guess she didn't have the piece that said Henry was his grandson. I think that this episode could be the final wake-up call for good old Mr. Gold.

I think learning that Henry is his grandson is going to be a game changer for Rumpelstiltskin.

[Writing Wrongs]

It was surprisingly simple. It makes me suspect the Blue Fairy in all of this even more. The child Pinocchio would not have known that, which makes me believe he had contact with her before he met Bae, and that she had her memories. I still believe this is all her long con.

Yeah, I rewatched "The Return" today and August said a "little fairy" told him about the dagger. She must've had her memories.

[Chicken Wing]

While I have never been more disappointed in a show for fulfilling an obviously predictable plot twist that was obviously predictable for as long as the Neal-Bae twist was (Is it me or this show blowing through all of their big mysteries way too quickly?), the scene between father and son was still well done. I really don't know why Rumpel thought his son would want to have anything whatsoever to do with him -- what he did was unforgivable. Wouldn't have surprised me if Neal grabbed Rumpel by his lapels and threw him out the window.

Mary Margaret and David trying to suss out their fucked-up family tree = priceless.

Milah sucks. How did Rumpel wait as long as he did before killing her?

Eyeless Seer girl was creeeeeepy.

Did the writers really plan from the original scene that August's big clue in the box was a piece of paper in a typewriter saying "I know you're Baelfire"? Because this reveal in this episode seemed like they just threw it in there, because why on earth would August have a note hidden in a box? If that's what his big clue was to convince Neal back then -- to let him know that he knew his real identity -- why wouldn't he just, I don't know, say it out loud? I don't know, just feeling like the writers are making it too obvious that they're making this all up as they go along.

Edited by Chicken Wing, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:14 PM.

[scarlett45]

Yeah, I rewatched "The Return" today and August said a "little fairy" told him about the dagger. She must've had her memories.

Couldn't the fairy have told him as a child?

[SzmuttyPratfall]

Maybe Blue Fairy gave Pinocchio a way to find Bae in our world so they could have a contact when they came of age.

The August Box reveal, was pk, but so cheesy looking on screen that I laughed. Guess he was telling the truth about the typewriter.

ETA: The scene between Snow and Emma about Thanksgiving was absolutely priceless...

Edited by SzmuttyPratfall, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:12 PM.

[metaphysicist]

Yeah, I rewatched "The Return" today and August said a "little fairy" told him about the dagger. She must've had her memories.

This also means that August came to Storybrooke before Emma's 28th birthday since Mother Superior could not leave it. In support of this is Regina's stating that August seemed familiar in 7:15.

I thought that how Emma reacted in the 'he's my son' scene was very believable.

[MisterGlass]

Couldn't the fairy have told him as a child?

He went through the portal before the curse, and I doubt he would have understood very well. Finding Emma on his own I can see, but knowing that she had fallen in with Bae without some kind of magical assistance I doubt.

[Model Citizen]

Favorite line: "You left me, and let me go to prison because Pinocchio told you to?" Too bad there wasn't somebody else in the bar to raise an eyebrow.

And yes, Milah is and always has been a bitch. She seemed okay in the first scene,but then she totally lost interest in Bae when Rumple came back. It reminded me that in a few years she is drinking in bars with strange men and finally runs away, leaving her son to his fate.

Edited by Model Citizen, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:19 PM.

[MisterGlass]

Eyeless Seer girl was creeeeeepy.

This. Those stitches and that black blood made me shudder.

Added: I saw someone on another board compare her to the Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth.

Edited by MisterGlass, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:17 PM.

[scarlett45]

Regina and Cora are grade A evil. Regina STILL cannot let go of her hatred of Snow and her selfish desire to have Henry love NO ONE but her. That's scary possessive, she is trying to kill everyone else who cares for him, we know she won't succeed because Snow and Emma are main characters but her possessive tendencies over Henry just are not healthy. She doesn't want to be the only Mother in his life she wants to be the only ANYTHING in his life.....

[stealinghome]

This episode was really, really solid, but the ridiculous contrivance of Belle a) having a map of the dagger’s location and b) CARRYING A CARD WITH THE MAP’S LOCATION IN HER PURSE is so, well, ridiculous that I can’t give the episode an A+. Really, writers? Just have them go to look around the library and notice something out of place, if you must go for the map route. (However: Good catch for everyone who called the time lapse between leaving the ship and his goodbye with Belle.)

The Emma/Bae stuff was, no pun intended, gold. It was really, really good—Emma reacted exactly as I expected her to, and I thought their dynamic throughout was spot on. Bae quietly apologetic, Emma fuming, but both trying to make things okay for Henry’s sake. That was just spot on, and just the appropriate amount of emotional. Well done, show. Snow and Charming was also hilarious—“But…I’m his grandfather.” “You can have more than one!” “Thanksgiving is going to SUCK”—in their limited screentime.

Oh, Rumpel. You’re still a dumb fuck. “Undoing” doesn’t mean “death” or “loss of power,” idiot. And I’m totally, super glad that Bae stuck it to him in their conversation. I like Rumpel, but Bae’s right, he hasn’t learned a thing, and there’s no way he deserves forgiveness. I’m sure Bae will forgive him in time, but I hope the show doesn’t rush that too much and Bae really, really makes him work (and change). The only thing that would’ve been better is if when he’d walked in he’d said “But you break deals, don’t you,” or some such.

Hook needs to stop being an idiot. Cora’s double-crossing you every time she breathes, dude. If you can’t bring yourself to quasi-ally with Clan Charming, just go freelance. Regina and Cora…I just can’t care, except a) Regina’s a moron and b) Cora needs to go back to Enchanted Forest fashion. The way they styled her hair was not flattering, and her outfit wasn’t all that great..

Man, Milah was cold. She’d rather Rumpel have died than live for them. That’s…really, really cold.

Also, Henry? I know you’re pissed that Emma lied about your dad, but saying “you’re just like her”? C’mon, yo. One lie does not mass murder, rape, and destroying/cursing an entire world make.

Oh, and nicely played, Pinocchio. I was wondering what was in the box, but that was a clever solution (if a bit contrived).

[My Way]

I can't believe Rumple wanted to turn Bae back to 14.

I loved Bae's 'are you fucking crazy' expression at that. Rumple is such a dumbass. He better rethink any murderous thoughts he's having towards Henry. He really, really hasn't learned anything yet.

Oh Emma. I felt so much for her this episode. Henry was understandably pissed but calling her just like Regina was a low blow. He better get over that shit because I love Henry/Emma together. Maybe he'll calm down a little when he hears what Bae did. Which he wasn't nearly apologetic enough for.

Regina and company...I hope Regina isn't really going along with her mother on all this because wanting to murder everybody again isn't exactly progress. I think Regina and Rumple have both forgotten who they are trying to win back because they are going about it in the worst possible ways.

[mustbekarma]

Man, Milah was cold. She’d rather Rumpel have died than live for them. That’s…really, really cold.

Those cold feelings seemed to transfer over to Baelfire. Milah had no problem leaving him behind, too. Methinks Milah didn't have much to do with raising Baelfire.

[Chicken Wing]

Man, Milah was cold. She’d rather Rumpel have died than live for them. That’s…really, really cold.

I think she meant that if he'd gone to fight and died in battle, at least he would have died honorably and bravely, etc., and that would have been better than to be a sniveling coward who couldn't stand up and be a man. I think she alluded to something of that nature in her prior episode. But still, bee ... yotch.

[Dani-Ellie]

I have an issue with eye effects. Anything that makes an eye look less than normal freaks me the hell out. So, putting eyes in the palms of some poor girl's hands? I'm going to need to watch something happy before going to sleep tonight, heh.

In other news, I just can't even with this show. Snow and Charming discussing the family octagon made me laugh. Emma/Neal and Emma/Henry made me cry. "I know you're Baelfire" was awesome. "You left me and sent me to prison because Pinocchio told you to?!" made me snerk. Neal coming back to make sure Gold didn't hurt Emma made me awww.

I actually slapped my hand over my ears when Rumple when to slam his own ankle with the sledgehammer thingie so if there was a sound effect there, I don't want to know.

Regina needs to stay the hell away from Cora. I know Cora's planning to set it up like Regina is completely innocent in the whole shebang, but Regina really needs to consider what losing that side of his family is going to do to Henry. (Also, I like how there's a whole wrinkle in Cora's plan that they don't even know about in the form of Neal. Henry wouldn't be alone if they do succeed in killing Snow, Charming, and Emma.)

Added: I saw someone on another board compare her to the Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth.

Yes. I needed to watch something happy after that movie, too.

Edited by Dani-Ellie, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:30 PM.

[scarlett45]

Those cold feelings seemed to transfer over to Baelfire. Milah had no problem leaving him behind, too. Methinks Milah didn't have much to do with raising Baelfire.

Yeah the "handing the baby off to get water from the well" was pretty symbolic. It's strange because before Rumple left Milah seemed hesitant to see him go, scared for his safety. She seemed to have some affection for him, but she liked her reputation in the town more.

[SiobhanJW]

Loved this episode.

Snow and Charming talking about Thanksgiving was hysterical.

I really would like them to show the conversation between Emma and Neal when she explains everything that is going on. Lol.

I thought Henry was a little harsh as well. But he has been lied to a lot by Regina so he is clearly over it.

Had a feeling that Neal was Bae. But the added twist of Henry being Rumples undoing is going to be good.

Neal looked happy to see Emma. This was a great episode.

So Hook shows up in NY? Should be fun!!

Edited by SiobhanJW, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:29 PM.

[MisterGlass]

I can't believe Rumple wanted to turn Bae back to 14.

That's the odd thing about Rumple. He is so naive about real, human things.

He was quick to realize that Bae was Henry's father, though, Robert Carlyle's expression was perfect.

[Digital Am]

While I'm annoyed that the show decided to have Bae become Neal, (I felt it was very anti-climactic?/non-suspenseful/non-twist-worthy), I must say despite this, I *really* enjoyed this episode. Robert Carlyle is amazing! I really felt for Rumple in this episode. I cringed when Rumple injured himself to be there for his son...To me, I can see the honor behind it. Rumple didn't want Bae growing up without him or for Bae to feel abandoned like Rumple's own father did to him....Unfortunately, well it happened anyway, but not in the way one would think. Was he a coward because of the See-er, yes. Did he abandon the army? Yes. But there's something about his decision I still get...

I felt for Emma too. I thought the confrontation with Bae was quite good for what it was for an hour show. I don't think its over yet by a long shot so we shall see.
I bet once the tidbit about Pinocchio/August fending Bae off sinks in, she's going to be mighty pissed at him..
What was the message August showed Bae? I think it was something like "I know who/I know you're father."?

I also felt for her when she was talking with Henry. It's going to take *a lot* for Emma to gain Henry's trust back...(PS-Jared Gilmore definitely grew taller to me. I really noticed it with the outfit he wore in this episode).
You could see the pain in both Rumple's eyes/face in various scenes, as well as Henry's. (Kudos again to Robert Carlyle, and to Jared Gilmore!)

What did Bae say after he got back into the temperate, before they did a close up of Rumple? He said something about not hurting Emma, then was it about the Deal?

I *loved* Charming and Snow trying to figure out the family tree!

And the memory of Rumple, and the See-er foretelling about Henry....Not good.

I'm a little ehh about the casting though. The show's done such a good job so far, so maybe it's me, but I don't think the actor who plays Adult Baelfire looked like Teen Baelfire...Opinions?

Regina...Sigh.
I think we saw Hook in the previews for next week, so I assume he's just out cold.
I love the line about him not being able to find his hook...HA!

Oscars, you better be worth preempting "Once" for next week...Just saying.

Edited by TWoP Tennison, Feb 17, 2013 @ 11:29 PM.
Topic

[regularlyleaded]

Oh Emma. I felt so much for her this episode. Henry was understandably pissed but calling her just like Regina was a low blow.

Word. Henry needs to get over his little self-righteous self. Hey Kid, wanna know why your "father" didn't know about you? Wait for it...It's because he sent your mother to jail and never tried looking for her when she got out. Ever. So stick that up your little eleven year old jumper. I found Henry so annoying towards the end it actually ruined for me what I otherwise thought was a good episode. Ugh.

Edited by regularlyleaded, Feb 17, 2013 @ 9:30 PM.

[mustbekarma]

(Also, I like how there's a whole wrinkle in Cora's plan that they don't even know about in the form of Neal. Henry wouldn't be alone if they do succeed in killing Snow, Charming, and Emma.)

I wonder how much power that dagger would have over Rumpelstiltskin. Henry is his grandson, and killing Henry's loved ones would devastate Henry. After the mistake Rumpelstiltskin made with Baelfire, I don't see him making that kind of choice again.

I swear, this episode was not only wonderfully acted, but setting up some real adventures for further episodes. I heartily approve of both.

My only disappointment with this episode is not enough Neal and Henry time.

[MDKNIGHT]

Growing up without a father at all, he probably would've given anything to make sure he was there for Bae. Hence running away again when Bae was conscripted.

But he couldn't give up magic to jump in the vortex and be with Bae. To me it all comes to that. Regina and Emma would jump in a vortex for Henry, Snow DID jump in a vortex for Emma and Charming tried to. Now Rump wants to memory wipe his son and stay in a town where he has magic. He never considers actually SACRIFICING someithing of HIS like magic for anyone even Bae. He just sacrifices and screws over others. We now know his plan was to murder a child when he finds Bael. Even if the plan changes now because the child he has to kill is his grandson I'm not impressed. Not doing harm to your own blood doesn't mean anything.

OTOH I HATE HATE HATE that they introduced "destiny" as being unchangeable because it gives Rump some excuse for the things he's done.

Regina couldn't just rifle through Belle' purse like a normal person?

That Dewey decimal system map has GOT to be a trap. Why would Belle have a map to the dagger? Rump was smart enough to plant that before leaving town. Makes me annoyed Regina and Cora are that dumb.

[xqueenfrostine]

While I have never been more disappointed in a show for fulfilling an obviously predictable plot twist that was obviously predictable for as long as the Neal-Bae twist was (Is it me or this show blowing through all of their big mysteries way too quickly?), the scene between father and son was still well done.

Hear, hear. Even knowing this was coming, I still kind of hate it. And I'm definitely not crazy about the "us meeting was fate" handwaving, but it's here and done so I'm going to move on and accept it.

I was happy at least that Bae was totally not thrilled to see his Dad. It would have really pissed me off if after all of the awful shit Rumple has personally done or manipulated others into doing for him, he was rewarded with a happy reunion. That would have been an awful "the ends justify the means" sort of moral resolution.

His appeal to Bae was all kinds of appalling. Offering to wipe his memories and make him 14 years old again. I'm sure that'd be great for him, but to expect his son to want that? Especially now that he knows about Henry? Shameful. To erase them for memory is the coward's way of dealing with one's sins.

The Fairytale storyline was kind of boring (except for the final scene with the seer!), though I guess the backstory was useful. I love Robert Carlyle, but he looked awfully old in those scenes to be playing a younger version of himself. It kind of took me out of watching his flashbacks.

The seer was super creepy, and while I can understand why Rumple deserted, I can also totally understand why his wife and the rest of the town would be so hard on his actions. I can't imagine that the soldiers in today's military would be any kinder to a fellow soldier who hurt himself in order to be sent home. Especially since it seems as if Rumple deserted right before an important battle, if the Duke's emissary's words from Desperate Souls is anything to go by. Yes he had an infant son at home, but I assume lots of the other soldiers had families too and probably fought to their deaths. That's what war is like. If you want to fight for prestige and glory of being a war hero, as Rumple was clearly excited for in the beginning of the episode, you have to accept the risk of injury and death. That's the deal.

And yes, Milah is and always has been a bitch. She seemed okay in the first scene,but then she totally lost interest in Bae when Rumple came back. It reminded me that in a few years she is drinking in bars with strange men and finally runs away, leaving her son to his fate.

I think she was humiliated. Everyone was talking about what had happened. It doesn't excuse it, but I can't imagine anyone was kind to her in town, as the wife of the deserter. That's no easy burden to bear.

This episode was really, really solid, but the ridiculous contrivance of Belle a) having a map of the dagger’s location and b) CARRYING A CARD WITH THE MAP’S LOCATION IN HER PURSE is so, well, ridiculous that I can’t give the episode an A+. Really, writers? Just have them go to look around the library and notice something out of place, if you must go for the map route. (However: Good catch for everyone who called the time lapse between leaving the ship and his goodbye with Belle.)

God that was awful. That better be a fake out, because if not, Rumple deserves to be stabbed for his stupidity in trusting Belle with this. That's the sort of information you commit to memory alone. You do NOT write it down for someone to find! Oh and we'd have to stop calling Belle smart, because Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ that is the dumbest move any character has made all series long.

[Lila82]

Hook needs to stop being an idiot.

Hook also needs to start dressing like he's living in the 21st century. And stop making cracks about buried treasure. Is there anything about him that's not dripping with lame sexual innuendos?

I did love Cora rocking one of Regina's pantsuits. Evil Queens wearing red lipstick for the win!

At this point, Regina and Gold are pretty much spiraling addicts. Until they really want to let go of magic and manipulation, it's never going to happen, no matter how much their children demand it. I do have hope for Regina. She's not so far gone that she can't see that real love means sparing her son's family even as it denies her the one thing she loves.

I don't love Michael Raymond-Jones, but I like how easily Bae fits into the canvas. I do worry though because the cast is enormous, there are already too many storylines, and the airtime is random and unbalanced. Characters disappear for weeks to accomodate other regulars or featured guest-stars...I don't know if the show can handle another major character.