53 replies to this topic

[TWoP Roxy]

From zap2it.com:

When the Captain (Kyle MacLachlan) calls Ted unexpectedly, the gang remembers their last awkward encounter.

[bosawks]

I'm not even a teacher and this episode kinda pissed me off.

[Irlandesa]

I'm not even a teacher and this episode kinda pissed me off.

Yes! Both of my parents were teachers and I even did it for a while before I moved to a different role in education so that would be a sensitive spot for me. I'm glad I wasn't the only one to have this reaction.

I'm fine with Lily wanting to try something different. Teachers get burnout and want to try something else. But they presented her career choice, which she has been dedicated to for quite a few years now, as something she was only doing because she hadn't had the opportunity to do something else with her degree. (Although I will say, art history and elementary education seems like a bizarre combination since many times elementary education IS the major. Did she do more than a few years after graduation?)

"Just a kindgergarten teacher." Really, screw you HIMYM.

I think it would have worked far better if, when he accused her of being a "just" a teacher, she threw at him that she was proud of what she did and saw finger paintings more interesting than the painting over his bed. And then, when he offered her the job tonight, for her to consider it since it'd likely be more lucrative and offer her more freedom as a mother than teaching. I could have been happy for her in this case even if it's an awfully convenient job offer that rarely just falls out of the sky like that. But now I'm not.

But nope, they went with the "those who can't do, teach" thing that irritates the hell out of me.

Otherwise, it was an okay episode. I guessed the twist early on (although not the whole degradation of kindgergarten teaching) so I was just waiting for it to happen. The different versions of the same story were amusing enough even though the formula is pretty standard by now for HIMYM.

Edited by Irlandesa, Feb 18, 2013 @ 9:03 PM.

[Astor]

I thought Ted dated Boats Boats Boats Girl before he dated Zoey.

Anyway, I'm always a fan of stories told through different perspectives but this time it just kind of came off as annoying. "Ted Moseby, Architect" pulled it off extremely well. And the episode where Marshall and Ted were high for two minutes at a concert was alright too. But this just made Ted and Robin look like dumbasses.

I can't believe no one would mention to Ted and Robin how they acted like douches in the... what was it, year and a half? I have a hard time believing Lily wouldn't have brought it up. "You guys embarrassed me at the big art exhibit." I just don't think they could have been that ignorant of the truth for over a year when logically they'd have figured it out by the morning.

[mbd]

Annoying that they were so desperate for a storyline, they had to reach back 18 months for an, "Oh, wait, remember when XYZ happened?" story. Boo.

I thought it started off really badly, picked up a bit once the alternate viewpoints came in, and then fizzled out by the end.

Very lame that they added Barney into the storyline just because he was whining. And quite insulting to Robin.

Also very lame, and rather pointless, to bring Becky back in. It seems like they're just trying to give every previous character a final curtain call. I'm betting that we'll see Karen, Nora, and Don once more before the series finale. But seriously, there was absolutely no point to bring back Becky.

I didn't see the Lily storyline as an FU to teachers ... more of a commentary on her continuing to pine away for the life she never had. Having her be the Captain's new art consultant was too much of a neat and tidy ending for me.

But I also wish that they'd have Lily finally acknowledge that backpacking and painting her way across Europe won't pay the bills. That's the kind of life that 20 year-olds dream about - art (and music, and acting) just doesn't work as a career for a large percentage of the people who try to make a go of it. Nobody forced you to get married or have a baby, Lily ... stop pretending that you were robbed of a great opportunity.

Or they could throw us a major twist and have Lily run away and leave Marshall as a single dad. That would at least be interesting.

Edited by mbd, Feb 18, 2013 @ 9:19 PM.

[ddawn23]

I'm a sucker for a rashomon episode, but they're always better when the viewpoints differ for a reason other than drugs and alcohol (I'm looking at you, Commander Riker accused of murder). Was alcohol a factor in the bee suit episode? If not that's the only HIMYM rashomon that didn't use it.

[starlitskyy]

So the elephant painting was terrible on purpose ... right?

I have no problem with Lilly exploring different career paths, but to suggest that she's hated being a teacher the whole time and it was something she settled for bugged me a bit too. She's always been portrayed as loving her kids and her job until now. But, then, consistent characterization isn't really a thing on this show anymore.

[vienibenmio]

I thought the elephant painting was super cute, but more for a kid's room or something. I didn't like it in the Captain's room.

[Pache]

I thought Ted dated Boats Boats Boats Girl before he dated Zoey.

I'm pretty sure he said that after Zoey, he hooked up with her again briefly.

[mbd]

I was really surprised that Robin kept her mouth shut while Barney kept talking about an open marriage, a threesome, and plowing the art critic and her sister (while high-fiving Ted).

Really, this show is extremely unfair and sexist toward women.

I'm pretty sure he said that after Zoey, he hooked up with her again briefly.

I have a coworker who sounds exactly like Becky. I'm tempted to give her 10 bucks just to say, "Awww... the horse DIES!!!"

[vienibenmio]

I was really surprised that Robin kept her mouth shut while Barney kept talking about an open marriage, a threesome, and plowing the art critic and her sister (while high-fiving Ted).

Not to mention how when he kept inserting himself in the story he was always entering the room surrounded by bikini-clad hotties. That's got to make your fiancee feel good about herself.

[MyAlias]

Even adjusting for 20 years of inflation, I don't see how they get $2.4 million for Lilly when Demi Moore only got $1 million...

Edited by MyAlias, Feb 18, 2013 @ 9:57 PM.

[ddawn23]

Even adjusting for 20 years of inflation, I don't see how they get $2.4 million for Lilly when Demi Moore only got $1 million...

Yeah, but Demi Moore doesn't have Snap and Crackle.

Edited by ddawn23, Feb 18, 2013 @ 11:11 PM.

[InsertWordHere]

I thought the elephant painting was super cute, but more for a kid's room or something. I didn't like it in the Captain's room.

I thought the "twist" was going to be that he was calling because he had bought the painting and wanted to put it in her kindergarten classroom.

[ladyrott]

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the elephant painting was awful. It looked like something a 10 year old would have done. And this is great art worth millions? I liked his initial painting much better.

I haven't liked any of the Captain episodes and this was no exception. If they want to make Barney and Robin work as a couple, Barney needs to change his behaviors a bit. I *think* they are trying to stay true to his character to a point, but what woman would put up with that (oh wait, I guess one who would accept a proposal from a guy who completely manipulated her).

[mbd]

I think they could've easily eliminated the open marriage talk and the bikini models and the archduke play, and still let Barney keep being the "epic storyteller." Him just walking into the art gallery and playing guitar and having confetti shot at him could've been pretty funny. Or riding in on a unicorn or something really outlandish. But having him keep flipping between Devoted Fiancé and Horny Asshole is just confusing and lazy. Which is it???

I can accept them showing Barney's shitty behavior if they're going somewhere with it, like Robin eventually calling off the wedding. But I doubt it.

I'd rather have the elephant painting than a Jackson Pollock.

[Irlandesa]

If they want to make Barney and Robin work as a couple, Barney needs to change his behaviors a bit. I *think* they are trying to stay true to his character to a point, but what woman would put up with that (oh wait, I guess one who would accept a proposal from a guy who completely manipulated her).

The Robin who would go to strip clubs with Barney may have put up with it. Hell, once upon a long long time ago, I had the smallest hope that they would consider morphing Robin and Barney into the kind of couple that has an open marriage since they do exist. But that was before I realized how traditional the creators were.

I didn't see the Lily storyline as an FU to teachers ... more of a commentary on her continuing to pine away for the life she never had.

I think it was the use of "just" that really got to me. Plus, it's sort of the same attitude they took with Ted and his teaching. IIRC, it was something he did because he couldn't find a "real" job.

[Utica]

I didn't see the Lily storyline as an FU to teachers ... more of a commentary on her continuing to pine away for the life she never had. Having her be the Captain's new art consultant was too much of a neat and tidy ending for me.

I thought Lily's art consulting is going to be a side-job, not her full-time job. If not, then Lily didn't give any thought to quitting on her students mid-year? Also, the Captain may be fickle -- fire her as easily and quickly as he hired her.

If they want to make Barney and Robin work as a couple

Robin looked bored with Barney in many of the scenes tonight. Like sister and brother.

[karra]

I assumed, given that he actually did go and buy the painting later, that he did not actually SAY "just a kindergarten teacher", but rather "a kindergarten teacher", and she, like the others, made it sound like more in her head.

[My Way]

I didn't see the Lily storyline as an FU to teachers ... more of a commentary on her continuing to pine away for the life she never had.

Yeah, I get that from Lily, since she has always had these thoughts about wanting to do art for a living (running away to san Francisco, selling her paintings to vets). I would like if she acted like she still actually likes teaching, since she has been shown to enjoy it in the past, but it doesn't bother me that she is pining for the artist life she once thought she would have. I did think the captain was kind of a jerk for no reason about the 'you're just a kindergarten teacher' although I didn't take it as a slam at teaching, just that she was being pretty bossy about what paintings he should buy and he already had an art consultant. (and I like the idea that lily added the 'just' because that's the sort of thing people do)

Plus, it's sort of the same attitude they took with Ted and his teaching. IIRC, it was something he did because he couldn't find a "real" job.

But then didn't he say that was a wonderful job or his best job ever or something? I think the writers have just gotten bored with all the work storylines. We used to see them so much in earlier years and now we see nothing unless it's an over the top ridiculous joke.

So the elephant painting was terrible on purpose ... right?

I thought the punchline was going to be that Lily painted it. It seems about her level. But then the ‘artist is blowing up’ part axed that.

It was cheap but Ted knocking over that guys tray at the art gallery cracked me up every time.

Edited by My Way, Feb 19, 2013 @ 9:25 AM.

[mbd]

I assumed, given that he actually did go and buy the painting later, that he did not actually SAY "just a kindergarten teacher", but rather "a kindergarten teacher", and she, like the others, made it sound like more in her head.

Yeah, I agree. I thought we were going to get to see the whole story from the Captain's POV, and maybe Lily would've been drunk as well. Or at least not coming across as coherent as she believed she was.

ETA: Or just hearing the Captain say things that he didn't actually say, or misinterpreting his tone of voice.

If we're supposed to believe that he said "You're just a kindergarten teacher!" in a patronizing tone of voice ... that was just shoved into the episode to justify Lily's feelings about her teaching job being unfulfilling.

Edited by mbd, Feb 19, 2013 @ 1:52 PM.

[joanne3482]

Or they could throw us a major twist and have Lily run away and leave Marshall as a single dad. That would at least be interesting.

Yeah, I get that from Lily, since she has always had these thoughts about wanting to do art for a living (running away to san Francisco, selling her paintings to vets).

But they keep TRYING to have Lily "go back" to painting and she's always failed at it. She's not a good artist. There's so much else she could do with her degree besides "just being a kindergarten teacher" (and yes, teachers actually regularly DO get a degree in education which involves things like learning about curriculum and actual teaching, but hey, anyone can be a teacher right?). Why wasn't she working in a museum or a gallery? She lives in NYC and before they had Marvin, she could have been doing any of those kinds of jobs. She could have been volunteering as a docent on the weekends at a museum to keep her interest alive and to help her get her foot in the door. I do believe that you have to be a grown up and have a job and it may not be doing what you love, but there are always ways to incorporate what you love into your life outside your career. If it is a priority to you, you find a way to make it happen.

[AzraelKay]

Well, I seem to be in the minority because I thought this eppy was really funny. Not the Barney parts, he was dreadful tonight for reasons stated by others, but I loved the different POV. And I am of the camp that no one intended to bash teachers and that Lilly doesn't hate teaching, but just sees that her dream of being an artist will never come true. I did think the Captain's hiring her was a little too pat.

[vienibenmio]

Plus, it's sort of the same attitude they took with Ted and his teaching. IIRC, it was something he did because he couldn't find a "real" job.

Haha, as an aspiring academic, don't even get me started on that! Poor Ted, having to settle for a teaching job at an Ivy League university that he obtained exclusively through knowing the right people!

I concur with a lot of comments on the AV Club's review: it was a lot more relatable and realistic when Lily had given up being an artist. Not everyone fulfills their dream that they had when they were in their 20s, but that doesn't mean that their life sucks or they'll be unhappy forever.

Edited by vienibenmio, Feb 19, 2013 @ 10:13 AM.

[scratcheyes]

I HATED the multiple POVs. It just gets so tedious. I also hate Lily's "philosophy" of stealing something from someone who has "wronged" her -- I hated it when she did it to Ted's old boss (aka Malcolm's dad) and I hated it this time. It's not "cute" or "endearing", and I can't believe Marshall (an upholder of the rule of law) puts up with it.

Barney needing to be the "epic storyteller" (or the epicenter of awesome) came across as really sad and pathetic - as if he has nothing else to offer. I know deep down (assuming the show writers ever get "deep") it addresses his insecurity/abandonment issues - I just wish they would actually acknowledge that instead of making Barney look like a pathetic, self-centered jerk. {On a side note, I would love to see more of James and Jerry. James, especially, sees right through Barney's defense mechanisms.}

Edited by scratcheyes, Feb 19, 2013 @ 3:27 PM.

[vienibenmio]

I didn't like the multiple POVs either because it was difficult to watch Ted and Robin act so terrible at a fancy event. I found it out of character that he would smoke marijuana before going to an art gallery show--this is the same Ted who held his own at a party with the NYC cultural elite.

[HickoryColt]

I acutally liked this episode, though it was a bit odd Lilly all at once now wants to go back to the art world instead of being a teacher.

I enjoyed the multiple storylines. And what it shows is they are all embellished and exagerrated, no story is 100% true. I doubt Ted and Robin were really acting as terrible as how Lilly described it, its just how she remembers it.

The Captain ought to be thanking Ted if anything, his ex was a bitch. She was hot, but she was over the line on Barney's crazy-hot scale.

I think it was the use of "just" that really got to me. Plus, it's sort of the same attitude they took with Ted and his teaching. IIRC, it was something he did because he couldn't find a "real" job.

This reminds me of Breaking Bad. The whole premise, or a large part of it, is Walter White ends up as a high school chemistry teacher. I was trying to explain the plot of this to someone and its really hard to describe without saying "he is just a chemistry teacher", as opposed to the high tech, high paid chemist he aimed to be, and could have been in his case if not for his ego. It does come across as insulting to teachers, I understand that, but its also hard to explain in another fashion. Its not a matter of the worth in society of the teacher as opposed to the alternatives, I think it has more to do with the fact that there are many kindergarden and chemistry teachers, but much fewer jobs as art buyers/advisers or as industrial chemists. The "just" describes more the relative scarcity of the alternative jobs to being a teacher, not the importance of the job itself.

Edited by HickoryColt, Feb 19, 2013 @ 11:45 AM.

[mbd]

Or they could throw us a major twist and have Lily run away and leave Marshall as a single dad. That would at least be interesting.

Quote
Yeah, I get that from Lily, since she has always had these thoughts about wanting to do art for a living (running away to san Francisco, selling her paintings to vets).

But they keep TRYING to have Lily "go back" to painting and she's always failed at it. She's not a good artist.

I really think they could get away with a "Lily leaves Marshall" storyline. There have been a ton of instances throughout the series where it's obvious that Marshall loves Lily more than she loves him. I noticed that in "Ring Up" when Barney and Robin both had that bright-light tunnel vision for each other, but only Marshall had it for Lily and not the other way around.

I don't doubt that Lily loves Marshall, but I think she's just a really flighty person who doesn't think practically about a lot of things. I was O.K. with her wondering what might have been before their wedding, but it's been several years now ... she needs to come back down to earth and realize that it's EXTREMELY difficult to make it professionally as an artist (especially when you're not that talented to begin with, and have been told that multiple times), and she's got bills to pay and a child to care for now. "I wanna backpack through Europe and paint and sculpt, wheeee!!!" just isn't something that most people in their 30s+ say (I'm aware there are exceptions, and people who can travel and job-hop successfully either solo, with a partner, or with kids).


If I were Marshall and she kept talking like this, I think I'd be having a serious chat with her about whether she's actually happy in her marriage. Lily doesn't owe Marshall (or even Marvin) her whole life if she's truly that unhappy, but she DOES owe Marshall the truth. And due to flash-forwards we know that she's not going anywhere, which is why I think they need to make her pick a path in life that she's happy with. Hopefully this art consulting thing is it.

Lily is short-sighted and she can be extremely selfish. I'm really tired of her need to "find herself," whether it's wanting to be a famous artist or her desire for a relationship with women. Either of those things are fine, but pick a path and stick with it. She's chosen to be a teacher, a wife, and a mother, so she either needs to follow up on her choices or make a concrete decision to do something else. I don't mind her deciding that being an art consultant is better for her than being a teacher, but I wish she'd stop waffling about it.

There's so much else she could do with her degree besides "just being a kindergarten teacher" (and yes, teachers actually regularly DO get a degree in education which involves things like learning about curriculum and actual teaching, but hey, anyone can be a teacher right?). Why wasn't she working in a museum or a gallery?

I'm wondering if she's lost the passion she used to have for teaching, because now she has a child of her own. It's one thing to deal with kids from 8 am-3 pm and then spend the rest of the day with friends. It's another thing to deal with kids from 8-3 and then come home to a younger child who's completely incapable of doing anything for himself (and yes, I realize that they have Mickey as a nanny, plus Marshall is a hands-on dad, and Ted would likely pitch in as well if they asked him). She may be just plain burned out.

The most likely reason, though, is that the writers had to pull an idea out of their ass for a filler episode and so they just settled on this one.

[Utica]

As an art consultant, Lily will not be creating art. That's what she wanted to do. Consulting was not her dream. She's more involved as a teacher actually doing something productive.

Now she's exclusively working with the weirdo Captain character. That means he is going to appear in a lot more HIMYM scenes from now to the series finale. Crap!

Lily doesn't even like the Captain; and yet he "bought" her as Marshall joked. Now Lily is going to be the one accompanying the Captain to art exhibits. Btw, what happened to the Captain's former art consultant-- why did she leave her job? Fired?

Hopefully Lily makes a few contacts, gets another art opportunity, and then quits working for the Captain.

Edited by Utica, Feb 19, 2013 @ 11:52 AM.

[CleoCaesar]

I really think they could get away with a "Lily leaves Marshall" storyline. There have been a ton of instances throughout the series where it's obvious that Marshall loves Lily more than she loves him. I noticed that in "Ring Up" when Barney and Robin both had that bright-light tunnel vision for each other, but only Marshall had it for Lily and not the other way around.

I don't doubt that Lily loves Marshall, but I think she's just a really flighty person who doesn't think practically about a lot of things. I was O.K. with her wondering what might have been before their wedding, but it's been several years now ... she needs to come back down to earth and realize that it's EXTREMELY difficult to make it professionally as an artist (especially when you're not that talented to begin with, and have been told that multiple times), and she's got bills to pay and a child to care for now. "I wanna backpack through Europe and paint and sculpt, wheeee!!!" just isn't something that most people in their 30s+ say (I'm aware there are exceptions, and people who can travel and job-hop successfully either solo, with a partner, or with kids).

Personally, I'd love a twist where Lily permanently runs out on Marshall and Marvin. Marshall is the only character I consistently like (and Robin) so it's not out of hatred for him, but because it would be a shocking, unexpected twist. What happens to the almost annoyingly perfect couple, together from the first day of college, when adult life intrudes. Lily's confession to Ted a few episodes ago about how sometimes she fantasizes about leaving her family and never coming back was one of the most raw, interesting, and honest moments this shitty show has had in seasons for me. They'll never go there, but I wish they would.