14 replies to this topic

[CaughtOnTape]

Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God is a 2012 documentary film directed by Alex Gibney. The film details the first known protest against clerical sex abuse in the United States by four deaf men. It features the voices of actors Jamey Sheridan, Chris Cooper, Ethan Hawke, and John Slattery, who provide the vocal translation of the deaf interviewees.

This premiered on HBO about a week ago, but I caught it on HBOGO.

Wow is all I can say. Considering the current news of the Pope resigning this documentary's release had great timing. The whole thing is kind of disgusting but to have actual proof he knew is really disconcerting.

[ThomasAAnderson]

This documentary made me so angry yet so sad. It was chilling when they mentioned that the Church is growing in Latin America and Africa.

After watching I kept thinking they should shut down Vatican city, sell off the assets and pay off the US and Europe's debts but that would be wrong...sigh

Edited by ThomasAAnderson, Feb 14, 2013 @ 7:32 PM.

[Major Misfit]

All I can say is holy shit. With every passing minute in this documentary, things just kept getting more and more awful, didn't they? I'd like to say I was surprised the Archdiocese of Milwaukee hid their money from the bankruptcy court, but, I'm not. Those poor, poor children. I wonder if they will ever get any justice.

I read something recently where the victims of the Church's global pedophilia conspiracy cannot sue the Vatican because the Vatican wasn't the direct employer of the priests.i can't imagine this to be the case since it was acutely clear the Vatican oversaw every aspect of these criminals' activities.

And the fucking Vatican. It really is NAMBLA with nicer headquarters. I hope Ratzinger and the rest of those bastards rot in hell.

Edited by Major Misfit, Feb 15, 2013 @ 8:35 AM.

[CaughtOnTape]

I think the thing that got me the most was Father Murphy's reasoning for why he did what he did. Rampant homosexuality was transpiring through the dorms so he took it upon himself to fix that by "playing" with the boys so they could resist the homosexual urges. Then he'd go to confession and be absolved.

Like seriously? He openly admitted it and didn't seem to take issue with anything he'd done. Even when those guys confronted him he just kept saying "It was a long time ago!"

Ugh, the whole thing is so frustrating. And the fact that the church still gets in the way during investigations and is about as unhelpful as they possibly can be.

Ratzinger should never have been Pope and John Paul II should never have been Sainted.

[Major Misfit]

Like seriously? He openly admitted it and didn't seem to take issue with anything he'd done. Even when those guys confronted him he just kept saying "It was a long time ago!"

RIGHT?! "I said a lot of prayers...all better now!"

And what about that similarly deluded housekeeper he had out in his lake house yelling at one of the victims? "But you're a Catholic!" Oh, I guess that should make it all better then, right? So what if you've been raped there, son? You're a Catholic! Faith over rape every day!

Ratzinger should never have been Pope and John Paul II should never have been Sainted.

Amen to that. Both of those motherfuckers should be in a prison somewhere. Well, except PJPII since he's dead -- but that's good enough for me.

Honestly, I don't know why people continue to support the church. From the top on down, all of these people were aware of -- and mostly condoned (by either inaction or silence) -- what went on and what probably CONTINUES to go on. I mean, going back to my previous analogy, it's like saying, "Oh, Jerry, he's not such a bad guy. Sure he raped a bunch of kids but he really helps out in the winter by shoveling my driveway."

[Queena]

This show made me ill. What a powerful, moving documentary. The Pope should've never became Pope. My soul aches for those children.

[canaanite2]

Honestly, I don't know why people continue to support the church. From the top on down, all of these people were aware of -- and mostly condoned (by either inaction or silence) -- what went on and what probably CONTINUES to go on.

One of the reasons is that the mainstream media refuses to fully report on this. They hint at "rumors" and "unsubstantiated" facts in an off-handed way and quickly move on, even though there are plenty of substantiated facts that support the long held rumors. When you compare this attitude to most news items -- like the Oscar Pretorius case, Newtown, and Treyvon Martin for instance -- you can see how rumors in those stories were freely reported as fact and the media had no qualms with shaping the public's perception of these stories through the manner in which they were reporting them. Whereas, with the many Catholic pedophilia, child abuse, and corruption stories they tread lightly.

This attitude from the media gives the church the opportunity to explain to their flock that these "rumors" are just a bunch of nonsense that a few crazies have put out there to destroy the church, and the flock believes it because when they turn on their TV's they aren't forced to see the sick reality, the FACTS, of the situation. It's like journalists and news anchors are afraid they're going to be struck by lightning if they dare to question the Catholic church. It's ridiculous.

It would have been so easy to minimize the corruption, abuse, and pedophilia within the church if they had just allowed priests and nuns to be the human beings that they are. To let go of the celibacy rule and allow them to intermingle as equals with their parishioners so they aren't perceived as superior infallible beings who can lord their superiority over others. Insisting on celibacy outside of marriage if fine, but insisting on celibacy for one's entire life is unrealistic. Does anyone know where this celibacy rule originated? I'm curious what the purpose was.

[Myndela]

Does anyone know where this celibacy rule originated? I'm curious what the purpose was.

My dad went to seminary school for high school, and he said that the reason that they started the celibacy rule was because the church didn't want to have to pay for the priest's wife and children, and have the possibility of them inheriting things. Priests weren't always celibate. Not even popes were always celibate.

I was so hesitant to watch this documentary. I was raised Catholic, though I never believed in it, and have my own myriad issues with the church. I'm also a survivor of sexual abuse, so watching things about it can induce PTSD. This documentary made me cry my eyes out for those boys. It was almost too much to take. The last documentary HBO had about the priest pedophiles was about a priest from my city, Toledo Ohio. Even though he was defrocked, the church paid for his housing and living expenses after he got out of jail. So them laundering money so they wouldn't have to pay victims and all of the other shit they did to protect these monster was not surprising in the least. What is really upsetting to me is how Pope John Paul knew about it and did nothing. He would complain about gays and birth control in the rare times he would mention sex, but he brushed this aside like it was nothing. You want to think of John Paul as a better guy than Ratzinger because of his role in ending Polish communism, criticizing the Duvalier dictatorship in Haiti and being buddies with the Dali Lama, but he really wasn't. He didn't care about those boys at all, or any of the abuse, just protecting the legacy of the church. Even I as a lesbian atheist used to like the guy, but this just nullifies any positive feelings I had towards him.

You'd think that after Pope Pius helped Nazi war criminals escape and now this scandal (which is more of a terrorizing tragedy than a scandal) that no one would ever set foot in a church again. I don't know how anyone could watch this documentary and go to church this Sunday and continue to put money in the collection plate- money that often goes to the defense of these pederasts. Even my 80-year-old Busia's faith has been shaken by this. But some people just find it comfortable to live in denial and I will never understand why. The hardest part of the documentary for me was when the one victim went to confront his abuser, and his house keeper kept asking him if he was a Catholic and telling him to forgive. These people are just awful.

And to Major Misfit, I would agree with you that the Vatican is like NAMBLA, but I'd say they're also like the Mafia. Just a bunch of criminals with too much money and too many complacent people.

[canaanite2]

My dad went to seminary school for high school, and he said that the reason that they started the celibacy rule was because the church didn't want to have to pay for the priest's wife and children, and have the possibility of them inheriting things.

Is that the official reason? I thought it would be more faith-based than financial-based, like being celibate opens the mind to more spiritual enlightenment or something like that. If being celibate has nothing to do with God or faith, I don't understand what the big deal is and why ending celibacy rules isn't even a subject of discussion within the church. Surely there are ways around the money and inheritance issue that would ensure that the church holds onto what belongs to it.

[Myndela]

He said a tiny part of it is spiritual, but the main reason is the finances. And it's the Roman Catholics that do it. Eastern Catholics have allowed their priests to be married, and only require their bishops to be celibate. It is RCC law, not doctrine, which means that the law could be changed by the Vatican Council or the Pope, but it's something that has been said to have no real chance of changing any time soon. It's a regulation right now, but not an integral part of the teachings of the church. Maybe this next Pope will be more open to change and forward thinking, and we could have a "Vatican III" ruling where birth control is allowed between married couples, gays aren't condemned and priests are allowed to have families, but I doubt it. Despite the vast numbers of churches closing across the world, they're still converting new followers who have no idea about the things going on and they believe they are doing the right thing and that it's their way or the highway.

[cherry malotte]

My dad went to seminary school for high school, and he said that the reason that they started the celibacy rule was because the church didn't want to have to pay for the priest's wife and children, and have the possibility of them inheriting things.

And you know what the kicker is on this for me? I work for a Catholic organization and there are some married priests, and some are younger, not older. They were married before they got 'the call' is what I was told. And some of them have multiple children.

It's such a powerful documentary - despite that the men involved couldn't stop him when he was alive they at least have had the strength and nerve to go forward. They truly are the blessed.

[PoeticJustice32]

Ratzinger should never have been Pope

In talking about his resignation (which is highly suspicious to me) a friend said he looks like the devil (if the devil had a human face) and I totally agreed. The guy is creepy looking. I never liked him, as soon as I found out he was part of some Nazi camp as a kid (which I don't believe he was "forced" into..but whatever). He's a joke as much as the Vatican itself.

I'm sorry but I don't think the celibacy rule has anything to do with what's been going on. If a sick freak is attracted to little boys then what does it matter if he's allowed to sleep with women?? I think it was Bill Maher who suggested that pedophiles might actually seek out the priesthood because they know they'll be protected if they get caught.

You'd think that after Pope Pius helped Nazi war criminals escape and now this scandal (which is more of a terrorizing tragedy than a scandal) that no one would ever set foot in a church again.

Why not? Look at how Vatican City got its start.....aligning itself with Mussolini and supporting fascism. With a blueprint like that, I'm not surprised the popes since then have gotten caught up in various unsavory, unholy, unGod-like situations. By any means necessary as they say. Have to keep that money rolling in after all. I have zero faith that the new pope will be any better. Not when the people electing him are the same ones that have been apart of this mess. I turned in my Catholic card almost a decade ago (I'm in my late 20s), and I'm embarrassed I didn't do it sooner.

[attica finch]

church didn't want to have to pay for the priest's wife and children, and have the possibility of them inheriting things.

Geez, if they'd only known about pre-nups....

[braggtastic]

Pre-nups wouldn't help with children inheriting. That's always the reason I thought the rule was changed. The church wanted to hold onto all the property & wealth. Look at all the opulence on display for this conclave. Think of the good that could be done through Catholic charities out in the world with the money selling off some treasures would bring.

[Myndela]

I never liked him, as soon as I found out he was part of some Nazi camp as a kid (which I don't believe he was "forced" into..but whatever). He's a joke as much as the Vatican itself.

Oh, I don't believe for a second he was forced into it either. His papacy made me especially sick because of my family being concentration camp survivors. He looks like a golem to me.

I also agree that the celibacy thing won't stop the raping of little children. People who are not under vows of celibacy who have families have been pederasts. And you (and Bill Maher) are right: it probably is a good cover for pederasts because of the church's own version of the blue wall of silence. And it really gets me how the priests can just go to confession and get moved around, without the authorities getting called. If I knew of a crime being committed like that and did nothing, I could be charged as an accessory. Priests get to be told of rapes, molestations, murders and robberies, and they aren't compelled to go to the police with this information and face no retribution for it. Why are priests exempt of such laws?

Why not? Look at how Vatican City got its start.....aligning itself with Mussolini and supporting fascism. With a blueprint like that, I'm not surprised the popes since then have gotten caught up in various unsavory, unholy, unGod-like situations. By any means necessary as they say. Have to keep that money rolling in after all. I have zero faith that the new pope will be any better. Not when the people electing him are the same ones that have been apart of this mess. I turned in my Catholic card almost a decade ago (I'm in my late 20s), and I'm embarrassed I didn't do it sooner.

Oh I understand all of that, I just don't know how anyone of good conscience could continue to go to the church knowing all of these atrocities and scandals the people at the top are constantly involved in. The new pope won't be any better- he's just as full of hate for all kinds of people (i.e. gays, women) as the last one. I left the church when I was six after my cousin committed suicide and they wouldn't bury her in a Catholic cemetery. That was my personal "this is bullshit" moment.

Pre-nups wouldn't help with children inheriting. That's always the reason I thought the rule was changed. The church wanted to hold onto all the property & wealth. Look at all the opulence on display for this conclave. Think of the good that could be done through Catholic charities out in the world with the money selling off some treasures would bring.

But they don't really seem to want to help the poor. They want them to accept their lot in life and give what little pittance they have to the church. Look at Mother Theresa. She would re-use needles until they could no longer puncture skin, when she actually did allow people to have medications, despite having thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical supplies from donations. She denied treatment to people with treatable infections because she wanted them to die with Christ, not survive and live their lives. She would even deny people visitors when they were dying. Yet this woman is seen as a saint and a hero. The church care not about the poor, just the money they can make off of them.

Edited by Myndela, Mar 14, 2013 @ 9:23 PM.