191 replies to this topic

[TWoP Lockley]

We're back! Be good!

[Tippi Blevins]

Lordy, if this season ends with Sam trapped in Hell...

I don't even know, man.

[amazinglybored]

Lordy, if this season ends with Sam trapped in Hell...

I don't even know, man.

Don't you mean the worst evah purgatory? Or maybe he will really go to hell this time, just to really take that storyline from Dean.

Seriously though that was a steaming pile of bullshit, I can't even right now.

[zombooni]

This Dean is the man, the hero, I will always love.
Loved his room, love that he can cook.
Love how he can make geek glasses look good.
Dean's face morphing was something I had forgotten about and that caught me by surprise, but all the rest of the episode was strictly by the numbers and utterly predictable.

Edited by zombooni, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:09 PM.

[AyChihuahua]

Another good epi, and awesome acknowledgment of Dean's tactical genius. This season is turning out to be much better than the last two (Imo).

[steve91199]

So...

That was a situation I did not want to see (Sam doing the trials) with a truckload of "OK not so bad" writing. I liked that Sam was worried for Dean's future and wanted Dean to know that he deserved a future. I liked that this was not done in a way that made Sam seem like a martyr and Dean seem unfeeling. I like that the show acknowledged that Dean deserves happiness. I like that there was real brotherly concern and affection, not just shame and codependence. I like that Sam, and the show, remembered that Dean has friends.

I still think Dean not doing the trials was a bad writing choice, I will just say that the writing in that last scene, while heavy-handed, was something which needed to be said.

Ellie? She seemed nice enough. Zero chemistry with Dean. I'm glad they didn't play this as some doomed affair or a tease of more to come - he just didn't seem to be into her in that way. He treated her with a basic decency and respect and I saw nothing more on his part. I think Jensen played the scene as Dean remembering being in her place, and how much he wants to make sure this never happens to anyone else. I thought the actress was noticeably poor, although she didn't have much of a role.

This episode had some rough-as-hell scripting, which I suppose makes sense with a Andrew Dabb script, but the last scene was probably the best case scenario to ever explain why Dean isn't doing the trials.

I also loved seeing them with their own place, cooking, having a home. Dean remembering Mary as he finally has his own room.

I feel like this season has the potential, under all the usual brother tedium, of giving Dean his own path and identity. I hope this won't change.

Edited by steve91199, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:32 PM.

[awab]

So Sam is MoL and he has the main storyline and where does it leave Dean? Just staying there holding Sam's hand?
The show telegraphed that's called Samnatural now. At least it stopped pretending that it's *about 2 brothers*.
I have no interest in this same old story of what's wrong with Sam for another year.
It was nice when it lasts. Over and out.

[Austinthecat]

I feel like this season has the potential, under all the usual brother tedium, of giving Dean his own path and identity. I hope this won't change.

I agree, the potential is there, but it will remain unused. Dean's storyline (from what I can see) is manservant, nurse, cheerleader and grunt. I don't buy Sam's speech as meaning anything for a second, it was just a set up to get him into the position of doing the trials and a too little, too late thing for some of the crap from this season.

I'm curious to see what others thought of this episode, but beyond that I may be done even just reading about the show. The path ahead is clear - it's Sam all the way. I think it's a shame they didn't arrange the trials to be something they had to do together. Dean has no part in the MoL storyline and no part to play in the trials, beyond something similar to being there to ensure Sam saw the soldier man in season five.

Edited by Austinthecat, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:19 PM.

[Tippi Blevins]

I still think Dean not doing the trials was a bad writing choice, I will just say that the writing in that last scene, while heavy-handed, was something which needed to be said.

I think they should have figured out a way for them both to do it. They've had plenty of situations where they took turns making individual sacrifices, but this was a perfect opportunity to get them both doing something together. At least that's what I think right now. I might feel differently after recapping.

[kara714]

Ellie? She seemed nice enough. Zero chemistry with Dean.

I disagree. Their scenes were the only ones I actually enjoyed. The rest was complete bullshit designed for no other reason than to emphasize Dean's Susie-homemaker role to Sam's specialest badass hero.

Edited by kara714, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:20 PM.

[Direwolf33]

Wow, we`re still time-travelling back in the show. Now Sam is another supernaturally-charged Chosen One, tasked with saving the world. Dean is once again the guy who drives him around, mops his brow and well, does laundry and stuff, I guess.

[steve91199]

I agree, the potential is there, but it will remain unused. Dean's storyline (from what I can see) is manservant, nurse, cheerleader and grunt. I don't buy Sam's speech as meaning anything for a second, it was just a set up to get him into the position of doing the trials and a too little, too late thing for some of the crap from this season.

I understand what you mean. This shouldn't even have to have been said, it should be intrinsic. I just wanted Dean to hear this, because, if Sam has felt this way, I don't think it's been put in a major emphasis since the early seasons - even season 5 with going to Ben and Lisa was more about a "normal life" that Sam may have wanted than what Dean himself wanted. I think Dean just assumes he's worthless and assumes everyone else feels the same way. Dean needed to hear more. It's lip service, in a sense, but also lip service which has been forgotten for lengthy periods of time.

I'm curious to see what others thought of this episode, but beyond that I may be done even just reading about it. The path ahead is clear - it's Sam all the way. I think it's a shame they didn't arrange the trials to be something they had to do together.

That's what they should have done. I think what this boils down to is if Sam isn't suffering, they just have no idea what to do with him anymore.

I feel like Dean is getting a story, in a way, and while I keep telling myself the story will be dropped or phased out, I think it's been woven into the season up to now. There are always some nice character touches (excluding one or two episodes). I feel like Dean is finding his way toward a happy sense of self and a real support system, while not losing the best parts of his feral side. I wish it were more, and I wish Dean got to kick some more ass, but what I have seen of Sam's story, which is another round of brotherly secrets! and Sam pain! is not something I would even want for Dean.

[muffilator]

Serviceable enough. This season has been better than the last two. At least I don't feel like I'm doing penance sitting through each episode like in the Gamble era.

That actress was awful. I think she was on Prison Break? Weakest part of the show.

I'm curious to see what others thought of this episode, but beyond that I may be done even just reading about it. The path ahead is clear - it's Sam all the way. I think it's a shame they didn't arrange the trials to be something they had to do together.

I think there was an element of this tonight. There still may be more. The brothers worked nicely together (except for when Dean threatened to shoot Sam in the head). That speech at the end was needed. Siren Song was on today (TNT) and the relationship between the two is different now.

Edited by muffilator, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:38 PM.

[steve91199]

I disagree. Their scenes were the only ones I actually enjoyed. The rest was complete bullshit designed for no other reason than to emphasize Dean's Susie-homemaker role to Sam's specialest badass hero.

I liked the scenes, mostly because I liked that Dean was worried about her, and this was a nice callback to when he was waiting for death in season 3. I was sort of glad about this because I think it was better that they showed Dean wasn't going to go there with her when she was distraught and he preferred to help try to save her life instead. But I didn't see any chemistry in most of their scenes. YMMV though.

If I'm not mistaken, Lofflin is the better writer. This script was written by Dabb.

You're right. Thank you for correcting me. I keep mixing them up because they used to write together. I thought Hunteri Heroci was a stronger episode than this, but generally I wonder if they should keep writing together.

Edited by steve91199, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:35 PM.

[Austinthecat]

I think Dean just assumes he's worthless and assumes everyone else feels the same way. Dean needed to hear more. It's lip service, in a sense, but also lip service which has been forgotten for lengthy periods of time.

Dean assumes he's worthless because he's basically been told he is, even if not in so many words. I expect Sam's pretty speech to be forgotten by next week's episode.

I feel like Dean is getting a story, in a way, and while I keep telling myself the story will be dropped or phased out, I think it's been woven into the season up to now.

I'm genuinely curious, what do you feel is Dean's storyline? (Probably best if taken to the Dean thread for your answer, if you don't mind. :) From what this episode showed us, right down to the cooking, Susie looks like he's pretty much set up as the uninteresting mother role in a sitcom.

[Wynne88]

Why the heck is Dean suddenly suicidal? That just seemed to come out of left field.

[MichaelaBelle]

I think they should have figured out a way for them both to do it.

I agree. I can't see any purpose to having just one of them complete all three trials. I actually think closing hell's gates should be much bigger than this whole premise, but what else do you expect from the show that gave us the Walmart apocalypse which ended with two guys falling into a hole.

Dean decorating his room was sweet and it was nice to see the brothers still getting along and showing genuine concern for each other. Otherwise I was unimpressed with this episode.

I am surprised they get cell phone reception in the bunker.

[Parcae3]

Yea, color me unimpressed with this episode.

I think these writers need to look up the word "redundant," because I don't think it means what they think it means. Because we are heading down the road to "Swan Suck Part 2" and there was NO need for it! There was no need to go back to Sam as the chosen one and Dean on the sidelines. Zero need. But yet they are firmly going back to that. They created that storyline exactly for that. It really makes me laugh when they talk about the fans of each brother and the war between them, because the Show itself is the one who creates and fans the flames of that divide with this kind of writing.

Anyways. I liked Ellie. I love Dean. Jensen was smoking hot. And hey, it's now canon that Dean is a good cook when he has a kitchen to cook in! Otherwise, this was pathetic and I don't like the way the road is looking for the rest of the season.

I'm hanging on by my teeth and the only reason is because of Jensen as Dean. But damn, I sure wish Show would stop trying to kick me off that ledge.

Edited by Parcae3, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:49 PM.

[steve91199]

Why the heck is Dean suddenly suicidal? That just seemed to come out of left field.

I think Dean's been suicidal for a long time. I don't think he wants to die, specifically, as much as he knows he's probably going to die, and he's going to choose when and how, to do the most damage to the evil in the universe. What Sam was saying was he should save the world to try to hope for a better life, not just the ideal death.

Dean assumes he's worthless because he's basically been told he is, even if not in so many words. I expect Sam's pretty speech to be forgotten by next week's episode.

I won't be surprised if you're right. I just needed Dean to hear it. Dean only really cares about 2 people, and this season, they've both told him that he's worthwhile. I don't think this is something he even expected to hear from either of them after the last few years (and all the shitty Sam vs Dean writing in the first half of this season only made that worse). I think he looked at Cas and at Sam and just saw his failures, his mistakes. They finally said, "No. You deserve better from this world." In my head I know this is just a smokescreen for more recycled caretaking, but some part of me does think Dean will be able to stop hating himself, and while that's not a story like saving the world, it's a story I want for Dean.

Edited by steve91199, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:47 PM.

[Austinthecat]

Anyways. I liked Ellie. I love Dean. Jensen was smoking hot. And hey, it's now canon that Dean is a good cook when he has a kitchen to cook in! Otherwise, this was pathetic and I don't like the way the road is looking for the rest of the season.

The cooking thing I'd find cute and charming if the Dean as Domestic wasn't all he had.

I'm hanging on by my teeth and the only reason is because of Jensen as Dean.

You and me both, yet it is rapidly approaching a point where Dean isn't enough to hold me to the show. I've no interest in seeing Dean portray the happy housekeeper.

I think Dean's been suicidal for a long time. I don't think he wants to die, specifically, as much as he knows he's probably going to die, and he's going to choose when and how, to do the most damage to the evil in the universe. What Sam was saying was he should save the world to try to hope for a better life, not just the ideal death.

That still doesn't explain why Dean doesn't qualify for doing the trials. If anything, it seems like a vague insult - Dean is clearly not mentally competent to do said trials, so Sam must do them as he is obviously in a superior mental and emotional state.

In my head I know this is just a smokescreen for more recycled caretaking, but some part of me does think Dean will be able to stop hating himself, and while that's not a story like saving the world, it's a story I want for Dean.

I would like it as well, if it was tied in with a larger mytharc or at least direct participation in the mytharc for Dean. As it stands now, it does appear like the show is setting up for Dean wearing his cheerleader uniform again. (I hope it still fits him!!) It's audience manipulation and nothing more, so at this point, I'm not much impressed by the speech.

Edited by Austinthecat, Feb 13, 2013 @ 10:54 PM.

[stealthyone]

Shorter episode: Yes, Dean you are just a grunt.

[Parcae3]

Shorter episode: Yes, Dean you are just a grunt.

Sad but true, LOL! That really was the end result of this episode.

[Ferrari]

Too bad none of that Hellhound blood got in Sam's mouth, I want him to get his abilities back.

[Austinthecat]

Shorter episode: Yes, Dean you are just a grunt.

I don't know. As far as I'm aware, grunts get to do actual hard work that often ends up being important instead of making sandwiches and (I'm soon expecting) baking cookies with a frilly apron on.

[amazinglybored]

Shorter episode: Yes, Dean you are just a grunt.

More like a nanny or applause section.

[steve91199]

You and me both, yet it is rapidly approaching a point where Dean isn't enough to hold me to the show. I've no interest in seeing Dean portray the happy housekeeper.

I thought that was an odd scene, as Sam probably knows Dean can cook (as mother and father to Sam, Dean must have cooked a little for Sam when they were growing up, even if they may not have had anything beyond the cheapest basics in run down motel rooms; Dean cooked for Lisa and Ben sometimes, although Sam might not remember since he was soulless at that point). I guess the idea was just to show us how wonderful and domestic everything is for now, compared to what they had before.

That still doesn't explain why Dean doesn't qualify for doing the trials. If anything, it seems like a vague insult - Dean is clearly not mentally competent to do said trials, so Sam must do them as he is obviously in a superior mental and emotional state.

I didn't take it as Dean being mentally incompetent, as much as Dean going into the trials with the mindset that he's going to die anyway, why not make it count. Sam was saying, no, you're not just going to die, you're going to live and be happy, like you deserve. I think it could have played out as Sam being superior and Dean being weak, but for once I didn't think the writing (at least in the last scene) came across that way. I think Sam was saying to Dean, "Look at how much you can do. Look at how much you are worth."

I would like it as well, if it was tied in with a larger mytharc or at least direct participation in the mytharc for Dean. As it stands now, it does appear like the show is setting up for Dean wearing his cheerleader uniform again. (I hope it still fits him!!) It's audience manipulation and nothing more, so at this point, I'm not much impressed by the speech.

I do hope Dean has more of a role in this beyond holding Sam's hand; I'm hoping he will be the big force against Naomi. One of the big downsides of the trials was that it did end up being about Sam, but maybe once Cas comes back in that side will be more about Dean taking charge.

[Parcae3]

I don't know. As far as I'm aware, grunts get to do actual hard work that often ends up being important instead of making sandwiches and (I'm soon expecting) baking cookies with a frilly apron on.

Jensen better make sure he doesn't jokingly put one on, they might decide to make him use it! LOL! (regarding the wig in LARP)

[StephanieZ]

I loved Kevin's opening montage, his "Eureka!" moment, and Dean basking in a little comfortable domesticity. I lost interest after that and can't even remember what the case-of-the-week was because I tuned out. I do remember Dean saying "I miss my room." and thinking to myself something like "Yeah, me too, can we wrap this up quickly and get back?".
Overall a bit of a sleeper episode.

I would like it as well, if it was tied in with a larger mytharc or at least direct participation in the mytharc for Dean. As it stands now, it does appear like the show is setting up for Dean wearing his cheerleader uniform again.

It's my hope beyond hope that Cas is, you know, coming back, (Eventually. Aaannnyyy week now, PTB.) and Sam doing the trials story-arc will free Dean up to deal with that. Maybe helping get Cas out from under Naomi's mind-control, and thwarting her plans (whatever they may be) will become his arc for the season. I mean, they introduced this huge mystery with Naomi and the angels and their plans, and that has to go somewhere, right? They wouldn't just introduce something like that and then drop it forever, right??

[Parcae3]

They wouldn't just introduce something like that and then drop it forever, right??

Sorry, how long have you been watching this show? Because yea, they totally would. Sorry :(

(that doesn't mean they ARE, I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of this show to drop stories like that)

Edited by Parcae3, Feb 13, 2013 @ 11:43 PM.

[muffilator]

That still doesn't explain why Dean doesn't qualify for doing the trials. If anything, it seems like a vague insult - Dean is clearly not mentally competent to do said trials, so Sam must do them as he is obviously in a superior mental and emotional state.

I didn't see this at all. Anyone would have "qualified" for the trials. Sam happened to kill the hellhound, that's it. There wasn't anything about Dean's mental state, or that he is mentally incompetent, or that Sam was somehow superior in the episode tonight.