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Downton Abbey: Speculation without Spoilers


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#31

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Posted Feb 19, 2013 @ 8:55 PM

Rose/Jimmy is an interesting idea. I don't see him being as sincere or serious as Tom, though. Their attraction would be more purely physical and superficial, and on her part maybe largely out of rebellion. So it would more likely be a dalliance, landing him in hot water.

I tend to think Jimmy is more savvy than that, though. When Edna told Carson about meeting "Tom Branson" for lunch Jimmy gave her a look that said "Now you're in trouble." He might like her, but would he risk his job over it?

The problem with Tom and a working-class woman is most of them had little education. He is well-read, now holds a middle-class job, and was married to an aristocrat who gave him a daughter. I think he would want someone with more education and refinement, even if not a Posh type, for his sake and for the sake of his child.
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#32

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 7:42 AM

My speculations are:

- Tom Branson being able to go back to Ireland, but deciding to stay in the end out of loyality to Mary and Matthew.

- Tom Branson clashing with Robert about the estate. But maybe it will be Robert along with Tom clashing with Mary about the estate. Could be an interesting variation and it could lead to a closer relationship of the two men.

- Tom Branson falling in love with Rose or the nanny. Since we don't know who the nanny will be, I tend to think Rose is more possible. I think he might be annoyed at her first, if she's going into a lot of trouble, but I also can see him falling for her lively personality in the end. She's such a contrast to Mary and Edith.
I could see him trying to hide his feelings and not to act on them to avoid another family crisis and because he thinks he can't marry in another posh family.

- Jimmy getting together with Thomas. I think Jimmy is secretly gay also. He just hasn't come out of the closet yet, not even to himself.

- Dr. Clarkson helping Isobel over her grief for Matthew. Don't know if they're going to get married, but he'll offer her a shoulder to cry on.

- Anna and Bates having a Baby. I'm afraid something is going to happen to the Baby though. For technical reasons it would be difficult to have even more little children on set as they already have. And we didn't have the death of a child yet. So I think that's going to be the tragedy of 4th season.

- Edith becoming Gregson's mistress. Her family will be scandalized about it.

- Daisy inherit Mr. Mason's farm.

- Alfred becoming a cook

Edited by Andorra97, Feb 20, 2013 @ 7:54 AM.

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#33

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 10:41 AM

I will add:

Tom being guilted into taking poor Moseley on as a valet. The man will be devastated by Matthews death and desires nothing more in life than to work at the Big House. he would not want to stoop to dressing a chauffeur, but he might take it if it's all he can get. Tom wouldn't want to, but they would pressure him to do it out of pity. I think Moseley would drive Tom crazy and Tom would be the biggest "project" Moseley has ever taken on. It could be a hilarious dynamic, actually.
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#34

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 12:30 PM

I could totally see Tom being guilted into taking on Molesley. Poor Molesley. I almost feel more sorry for him than Mary over the loss of Matthew. That dude can just never win.

As for Jimmy being secretly gay, I'm not sure where I am on that now. Previously, I was on the "Jimmy is gay" train because as pointed out on the show, he's a young guy who doesn't seem interested in any of the ladies there (when the other young footmen who come through develop a crush on a young lady downstairs) and he only seemed to show any interest in Ivy either to mess with Alfred or prove how manly he is (not unlike how Thomas would take advantage of Daisy's crush on him in order to mess with William). And then he stayed mad at Thomas for a year when even Alfred (the one who actually called the police on Thomas) was all, "Will you please get over it and stop being mean to Thomas? It's a total buzzkill and I'd like to have fun at the fair without you bringing us all down." That made me think the lady doth protest too much.

But then he was perfectly amiable to being friends with Thomas, even knowing the guy still had a crush on him. That, to me, doesn't mesh with someone who is deeply in the closet. That sort of relationship would just be too scary for someone who is afraid of/in denial about that part of himself.
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#35

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 3:07 PM

I just need Moseley/Tom to happen now. I ship it. I can just picture Tom rolling his eyes and saying: "Fine, pick out whatever you want, so long as I don't have to talk about my clothes whenever I go downstairs." And Moseley griping to the other servants about Mr. Branson still insisting on sleeping in his undershirt and refusing to wear a silk bathrobe like a proper gentleman.
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#36

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 4:33 PM

I'm totally into the Tom has to take Mosely as a valet ship! What a wonderful idea! It would be hilarious!
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#37

TWoP Roxy

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 6:07 PM

If I see anyone in this thread who is even the least bit active in the UK thread when the show is airing again - provided the UK stays ahead of the US in viewing schedule - I will ban that person without recourse.

Edited by TWoP Roxy, Feb 20, 2013 @ 6:08 PM.


#38

lacunae

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 7:07 PM

Molesley as Tom's valet? could be fun... tho a bit like a more challenging version of Matthew (from the beginning of series 1)

So, if Molesley took on "Project Branson", would he actually achieve anything or just talk about it a lot?
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#39

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Posted Feb 20, 2013 @ 11:28 PM

My fondest wish would be for Gwen to come back and hook up with Tom. I could totally see her having continued to better herself in the intervening years. They have a lot in common: progressive, practical, technical, love of Sybil... I could see it working, except it won't: that'd be one straw too many for the Crawleys. He'll probably end up with someone more like Matthew: a gentlewoman of a modest, middle class background.

Albert and Daisy taking on the farm, but finding a way to making cooking a part of it.

Mary is set as mother of the heir - she doesn't have to marry for money or title or means to stay at Downton. I'm tired of it being all about her, so I'm hoping she'll be he one to have the quirky, incidental side story for a change.

Edith will prolly have a fling with Gregson. Then either (a) she'll hire Bates to kill Mrs. Gregson (I wish), (b) they'll just have Mrs G die ( too lazy, but maybe all the Edith love JFK can manage or © Edith will find someone who deserves her - all those officers can't e wrong

Thomas - I hope he finds someone, but not Jimmy. But I think Thomas needs to get out of service.

Overall- next big thing will be stock market crash. End 4 with things desparate, crawl out in 5? Or is that too big a time gap?

I like Rose. I think we'll find she has powers of mind, when given a chance. Like Sybil and her activism and nursing, or Edith and her driving and writing.
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#40

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Posted Feb 21, 2013 @ 9:41 AM

I like Rose as well. I think she will blossom at Downton, eventually, and find her niche.

There's little chance Mary will have a side story. MD would not have agreed to stay around for that, and Fellowes still worships her. It killed him not to give her a happy ending with Matthew. Or at least it killed Matthew.
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#41

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Posted Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:26 PM

I could see them putting her together with Jimmy as another class-crossing love relationship


Rose is only a believable character when she is looking for a wealthy husband. Jimmy's looks might give her a warm feeling but she's going to be on the lookout for someone who can keep her in nice dresses and trips to night clubs.
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#42

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Posted Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:37 PM

I don't see Rose/Jimmy happening either. However, although Rose will be husband-hunting like a good society girl, I wouldn't put it past her to have a dalliance Below Stairs. She seems rebellious and reckless enough, and also seems to crave affection.

Her mother was a sourpuss, but she might be right to be concerned about her daughter getting into trouble. Heck, given Rose's affair, she is well within her rights to be worried.

The Crawleys are going to have their hands full.

Edited by Scoutlet, Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:38 PM.

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#43

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Posted Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:59 PM

I don't see Rose/Jimmy happening either. However, although Rose will be husband-hunting like a good society girl, I wouldn't put it past her to have a dalliance Below Stairs. She seems rebellious and reckless enough, and also seems to crave affection.


This is how I would see a Rose/Jimmy thing playing out. Will she see him as husband material? No. A fun little fling? Yes. I could see Jimmy falling for her but she wouldn't be serious about him.
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#44

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 11:55 AM

I'm totally on board with Moseley as Tom's valet. I almost wonder if they weren't setting that up a bit in S3, Ep 1 when Moseley altered Matthew's old morning coat for Tom. Before the wedding both Matthew and Tom thanked Moseley for helping Tom be "up to the mark". I can see Moseley bringing this up again, and making it seem like he is completely reponsible for starting to dress "appropriately". All of the other servants seem to look down their noses at Moseley (for obvious reasons). Being Tom's valet would only add to that since he will be valet to the former chauffer.

Regarding a love match for Tom, I think at the end of the series Tom, Sybbie and likely Tom's new wife will return to Dublin. With his experience as an estate manager, he'll probably be able to get a good job back in Ireland, and I see him settling into a middle-class professional life, which is where I think he'll be ultimately most comfortable. So, whoever he marries will have to be happy with that life as well. I don't see that being Rose.
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#45

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 1:46 PM

Regarding a love match for Tom, I think at the end of the series Tom, Sybbie and likely Tom's new wife will return to Dublin. With his experience as an estate manager, he'll probably be able to get a good job back in Ireland, and I see him settling into a middle-class professional life, which is where I think he'll be ultimately most comfortable. So, whoever he marries will have to be happy with that life as well. I don't see that being Rose.


Can Tom go back to Ireland without facing possible jail time? Wasn't that why he took off for England to begin with?
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#46

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 2:03 PM

Once the treaty is signed in 1922 he would be free to go back, since the British would no longer be in control of that part of Ireland. The whole thing struck me as silly anyway, since they would have had bigger fish to fry and he could have hidden out in Dublin almost more easily than in Yorkshire.

I suppose you're right that Rose would not want to go to Dublin. But I could also see him staying in England and getting into politics another way. In S1 he said his biggest concern was economic injustice, not necessarily Ireland. Then in S2 they made it all about Ireland, but maybe they'll remember who he was in S1.

Anyway, I can see why people think Rose is the wrong fit for him entirely. But IMO it sure beats Tom/Mary or Tom/Edith and I have no idea who else is on the horizon. This show has done way soapier/stranger things before.
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#47

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 5:17 PM

Let's not forget that Shrimpie is in politics, too. He's a tory of course, but I thought that might be another thing that would be interesting in the possibility of pairing Rose with Tom.
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#48

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 10:54 PM

When could Branson return to Ireland? The Wikipedia episode guide says the "Christmas" episode was set in September 1921. In July 1921, a Truce had been declared in the Irish War of Independence; negotiations began in London in October & the Treaty was signed in December. In December of 1922, the Irish Free State began.

A Civil War followed--but after 1922 the authorities who wanted Tom in Dublin would no longer be in power.
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#49

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Posted Feb 23, 2013 @ 11:26 PM

So who wants to bet in the S4 CS Tom goes back to Ireland?

Great, they killed Sybil so Allen Leech could stick around for one more season. Hope it was worth the paycheck.

Not that it wouldn't be a happy and fitting end for him. But I can't help but feel S4 is probably not going to be worth all the heartache of S3.
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#50

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 9:17 AM

I don't think he will go back in the CS. I think he'll go back at the end of season 5!

He will be able to go, but decides against it, because it wouldn't be safe enough for Sybbie. The civil war started right after the treaty was signed and Dublin was in the middle of it. It wasn't a safe environment for his daughter and as much as he would want to go, I think he won't do it.

Even more so since I'm convinced that he has found another love until then. She will keep him in England, too.
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#51

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 10:29 AM

I'd bet Tom will have a pretty big role in both S4 and S5. With Matthew gone, he's the only young "upstairs" male on the show, and he's the one who's going to have to continue to bring Downton into the future. I think this sets him up for lots of storyline potentials: conflict with Robert; a business alliance with Mary; future romantic possibilities. Plus, given that he knows both upstairs and downstairs characters well, he can interact with any of them (like that lovely scene with Mrs. Hughes).

Also, I get the feeling that JF really likes Allen Leech. I thought I read that Tom was supposed to be done in S2 after the incident where he was going to dump that slop on the British Officer, but JF decided to keep him on. I know I have also read that Allen worked with JF before on something, although what it was escapes me. So, I think Dan and Jessica leaving will end up being a big opportunity for Allen/Tom to play a larger role.

Edited by absolutelyido, Feb 24, 2013 @ 10:30 AM.

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#52

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 1:55 PM

I'd say that you're most likely correct, absolutelyido. Even when they bring in a new man for Mary... he'll not have had the history that Tom will have.

Assuming Mary finds a new man... will he assume a role in the running of Downton? Would he, if Mary & this new man married, have any authority over Tom, 'only' the land agent, since NM would then be Step father to the Heir presumptive? Imagine all the drama JF could wring out of that one. Esp. since he likes to repeat story lines... it could be just like the drama of Robert & Matthew butting heads!

Edited by callietwo, Feb 24, 2013 @ 1:57 PM.

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#53

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 3:05 PM

I imagine the new man wouldn't have a say in anything unless Robert gives him the authority. He wouldn't automatically have access to or control of the money Matthew invested in Downton. As a lawyer, Matthew would have made sure that there was a contract in place laying out what can and cannot be done with the money to prevent it from being squandered or misappropriated.

It's not clear to me that Mary would necessarily have a say, either. She doesn't know anything about finance and running a business. It seems more likely that Tom will take over whatever responsibilities Matthew had and will run the estate by himself going forward. Since Robert is happy with the way the estate is being managed now, he will no doubt want to continue down that path with Tom.

I don't think that Tom will ever return to Ireland. He will become more integrated into the estate and the local upper class establishment. He will probably marry a nice upper class girl like Rose or one of her friends. As the son-in-law of an earl and Robert's trusted business associate, Tom could be a good catch for a girl from a titled but moneyless family that is about to slide into social oblivion. He can provide a comfortable life at Downton and good social connections through his in-laws.
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#54

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 3:38 PM

I think Tom has better stay where he is too. During the Christmas Special, I realized he is way too delicate to be in Ireland in the 1920s. He might just be able to deal with an irate tenant, if he brings some help. Alfred could stand behind him and glower menacingly.

I like the idea of an upstairs/downstairs fling for Jimmy, but I'd prefer Mary to Rose because I want it to be messy, and that child's life is messy enough. I suppose Mary's is now that she's a single mother, for now, but she's far more cool-headed. And she already thinks Jimmy deserves to be at Downton just because he's pretty. I'm sure Jimmy would be all cock-sure about this--because when isn't he--but Mary could very effectively put him in his place. She could tell him pretty footmen are a dime a dozen, or whatever that awful thing was that she said to Mr. Carson in season two, except, in Jimmy's case, it would be true. That would give him something in common with his new friend, Thomas. I'd prefer Thomas to counsel Jimmy about recovering from class-crossing breakups than something more life and freedom-threatening, like being gay. I'd also really like to see Thomas at least more stoic in season 4; he cried us a river in season 3. I felt like I was watching an ASPCA commercial.
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#55

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 5:09 PM

Mary and Jimmy? Wow, that is an interesting concept. I don't really see it, but it's intriguing.
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#56

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 5:41 PM

mdumont, I agree with you about Tom. They have made it clear he has a "new status" now and it will only rise with Matthew gone. He might butt heads with Robert or even Mary at first, but that will be resolved. He proved to have a diplomatic touch with Robert. Plus, right now he is their only son-in-law, and as much as they didn't want him at first, a double whammy like the loss of Sybil and Matthew can put things in perspective. Not to mention the fact that they wouldn't want to lose their granddaughter either. That child is adorable.

And as you said, many aristocratic families will hit hard times right about now. Matthew et al managed to save Downton with cash and foresight, but even Shrimpie is about to lose Duneagle. They will have pedigree but no money, and with the continuing man shortage some young women might be happy enough to marry an attractive, uxurious young man on the rise, who also happens to have influential in-laws. That's why I still think Rose is a possibility: they will be in close contact with each other on an ongoing basis, which can foster affection, and she is another young aristocrat whose family is on the decline.

If this were real life, she would marry another young aristocrat and hobnob between London and a country estate. But on this show, it is hard to escape the Downton bubble and things tend to get incestuous.

Also, as has been mentioned, Fellowes likes the actor. He works hard and delivers good material, and is a trooper about promoting the show and being positive. He gets along well with the other actors, too. And I think the Irish thing helps.

Edited by Scoutlet, Feb 24, 2013 @ 5:42 PM.

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#57

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 6:54 PM

I imagine the new man wouldn't have a say in anything unless Robert gives him the authority. He wouldn't automatically have access to or control of the money Matthew invested in Downton. As a lawyer, Matthew would have made sure that there was a contract in place laying out what can and cannot be done with the money to prevent it from being squandered or misappropriated.


The "new man" being Mary's hypothetical next husband--would she really be interested in somebody who had nothing going for him? Somebody with no home who just wanted to move to Downton? What if she met a man who could offer her a title---but needed money to prop up his own beloved estate? Like the Duke back in series 1 who hoped the entail would be broken & she could bring him the cash infusion he needed? The money is probably tied up; surely Mary agrees it should continue to ensure Downton's future--for her son's sake and her own.....

The effect of The Downton Triangle will probably limit Mary's romantic prospects. It seems rather soon to be discussing them--but I bet Fellowes already has plans...
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#58

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 7:22 PM

Mary will most likely eventually marry a titled man with or without money. That doesn't mean that he will get a say in how to run the business or will get access to the Swire money. Robert finally has financial stability, I would think that he will not allow an outsider who will never won Downton messing with that. His obligation is to his grandson and heir, not his daughter's second husband.

It is also entirely possible and probable that Matthew took legal precautions to ensure that the principle of the Swire money is protected in a trust and cannot be pissed away covering operating costs and living expenses for the family like in the past. There would be no point in investing in Downton if the family were allowed to burn through the principle in less than a generation.

I will guess that Matthew named Tom executor of his estate and also longterm holder of the Swire purse strings and Mary will have a nice annuity.

Edited by mdumont, Feb 24, 2013 @ 7:24 PM.

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#59

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 7:35 PM

You really think Matthew named Tom as executor? I guess it makes sense, but I am not sure. I imagine it would not be Robert, after what happened. But Matthew is a lawyer, and Tom, though bright and well-read (and Matthew's bro), has no formal education. I bet Matthew knows a few other lawyers in London or Manchester who might make more sense as executors.

Then, having Tom do it would be a much better plot line and create loads of potential drama.
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#60

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Posted Feb 24, 2013 @ 7:44 PM

I will guess that Matthew named Tom executor of his estate and thus the holder of the Swire purse strings and Mary will have a nice annuity.

oh, how I would love that possibility! Mary & Robert having to make nice to Tom, to get access to the finances would just stick in their craw now wouldn't it? (pun not intended and I just noticed it, lol- sorry!)

I know it's probably not possible, but wouldn't it be fun if Tom were to somehow marry someone of higher rank than Robert? Imagine the horror of Lord Crawley!

Edited by callietwo, Feb 24, 2013 @ 7:46 PM.

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