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2-12: "The Choice" 2012.12.16


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#1

TWoP Lockley

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:17 AM

In the Season 2 finale, Carrie is faced with a pivotal decision, while Brody meets with Faber to contemplate the future of the family. Meanwhile, Saul undertakes a secret assignment; and Quinn has a decision to make that may prove to be a game-changer.

#2

Obfuscated

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:05 PM

Holy sweet ripping...IMDB guy/girl was right, every bit.

Wow, Chris. "Hey look, Dad's on TV!" The open-mouthed drooling in the family's last scene kinda says it all.

So, Quinn's still out there. Still the guy who kills bad guys. Probably kicking the shit out of himself for misjudging what turned out to be a rather fraught situation. Very likely pissed at Carrie. Gee, can't imagine whether or not he'll be back for S3.

FUCKING EYE DART TOWARD THE WINDOW. So was that him noticing his car was out of place, or him looking sad because everyone else was going to get blown up and he would still be alive? And then the crazy grin for just an instant when he was trying to talk Carrie down and she finally lowers the weapon?

Wait a second, wouldn't he just say "Yep, I did it, shoot me," if he was still planning on the whole death thing? He can't have immediately made the decision to go on being a terrorist when he thought he was going to get blown up with everyone else?

Plus he was fairly indifferent about whether or not his family was going to the memorial and he seemed to assume they'd be alive afterward (when he told Mike to keep taking care of them)...

*flail*

(o hai shippers, he never outright said "I love you," so that's all ambiguous and shit too!)

Edit: You know what? Maybe I'm stupid and have joined the masses of those who don't think critically enough about what I consider quality entertainment, but to hell with it. I liked this episode. I'm going to enjoy picking out details from the rest of the season, seeing where stuff doesn't match up between the seasons (which, okay, will be plenty), basically being a fangirl except without any illusions about the male leads. I like this show and I'm interested to see how S3 will play out.

Edited by Obfuscated, Dec 17, 2012 @ 12:22 AM.

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#3

Karelian

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:06 PM

I was prepared for the stupid, but the dumbness still took my breath away. There is nothing left of the original characters. They even managed a complete U turn on Quinn.

So Carrie was saved by hot funeral hanky panky while the VP that Brody killed was being eulogized. Jesus.

The first 25 minutes was a bizarre B-grade romance, which jarringly switched to massacre porn with cheap emotional button-mashing.

And the writers are congratulating themselves for pushing the big reset button of generating a huge twist and hoping the audience forgets the glaring plot twists. Just what "Lost" did for five years.

Truly shameful. No wonder Danes looked so lost and fake. She knows how hot this mess is.

Edited by Karelian, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:09 PM.

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#4

Myndela

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:07 PM

How is it possible that the "Dexter" season finally was better than the "Homeland" season finally? Ugh. And that was one of the worst uses of CGI for an explosion that I have ever seen.
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#5

Hallelujah

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:07 PM

My thoughts: melancholy, infinite sadness.

I'm glad Carrie made the right choice.

That's all (for now).
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#6

CleoCaesar

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:09 PM

Pulled me right back in for the finale.

Did NOT see Estes dying. So happy that Saul and Carrie are OK. And, hell, Brody too.
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#7

mochamajesty

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:10 PM

Welcome back, Homeland.

The best relationship on this show is Saul/Carrie.

What happened to the vest? Did that set off the bomb?

"Someone moved my car!" So fake. He is totally guilty.

Glad Estes is dead.

Quinn's epiphany seemed to come out of nowhere. I thought assassins killed first, and asked questions later.

would those bodies be so...whole after an explosion like that?

Edited by mochamajesty, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:12 PM.

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#8

EndoKE

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:11 PM

So I guess Brody didn't blow up the ceremony? Was it Nazir reaching out from the grave to frame Brody?
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#9

and1234

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:11 PM

Me, screaming at TV: "Kill him, Carrie! Kill him, Carrie! Come on!"

Now *that* would have been juicy. As it stands, I have to say the last two weeks' episodes of Scandal were better written than this. Bummer.
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#10

Banannah

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:12 PM

Quinn's epiphany seemed to come put of nowhere. I thought assassins killed first, and asked questions later.


Saul rubbed off on him in their time together.

Ep review: slow buildup, nice payoff. A little too romantical for me, but I like the set-up for next season a lot.
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#11

Hallelujah

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:12 PM

Also: we have a new opening credit sequence to be looking forward to next season. Silver linings, people!

"Someone moved my car!" So fake. He is totally guilty.

Why would he point out to Carrie that his bomb had caused the explosion if he was actually guilty? I agree with EndoKE that Nazir framed him to make it look like he had caused it (he probably assumed he'd be killed in the explosion anyway, so the release of the suicide tape fit perfectly).

Edited by Hallelujah, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:14 PM.

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#12

meandthemoon

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:13 PM

Oh, goodness. This show. At least Quinn didn't die.

So where to start? I hated the Carrie/Brody stuff as usual. But if they are going to go there, can't they at least have Carrie question it a little? Be a little more doubtful of what she is doing? Like at the cabin, I kept hoping to see Carrie hesitate (and not just because she wants to keep her job at the CIA), for more fundamental reasons like "this is a man who I brought down because he strapped on a suicide vest." So that rang completely false with me. And it didn't help that the rest of their scenes felt like it could have come from any other romantic drama. Did not feel like Homeland at all.

I'm not confident in the writers to base season 3 on Carrie clearing Brody's name. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Quinn didn't die, but it didn't feel like they set up a role for him for next season. The fact that he disappeared after the threat is not a good sign. Tear.

To be honest though, as much as I love Quinn, I didn't love his scene with Este. There was something off with the writing, and I didn't like how it seemed like he decided to not kill Brody because Carrie loves him. That's too corny for a badass like him.

What else? Um, I thought the Brody family stuff was good. Happy to see Mira is coming back.

Mostly I'm disappointed that the writers took the easy way out by having Brody both be innocent and still be in the next season. I was really hoping that the intense Carrie/Brody focus this season was going to lead to an unexpected ending where one of them was playing the other. Now THAT would have been a great finale. But the writers or Showtime wouldn't dare kill an Emmy winner. Sigh.

Why did Brody think that was his car outside? It could have been anyone's. Don't think he did it, but I thought that strained credulity a little bit.

Edited by meandthemoon, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:20 PM.

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#13

MightyMac63

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:13 PM

When Abu Nazir was being buried at sea?

Image of the helicopter carrying Saul on board preparing to land on a battleship.
And then..it somehow turned into the profile of what looked like the profile of an aircraft carrier? Come on producers, get the ships right!

If Saul is right and some of the C4 from Gettysburg was used (upon matching the bomb residue trace), then how much was used at the CIA?

And hopefully the soap opera romance between Carrie and Brody is finally over.

Edited by MightyMac63, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:29 PM.

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#14

HollaMcDollar

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:13 PM

Although I knew what was going to happen before I watched, seeing it was worse than I expected. Season 3 might be its last.
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#15

jalfredprufrock

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:15 PM

I think Brody did it, and that he is playing Carrie. But maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part, because that is really the only plot device that can save this show IMO.
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#16

EndoKE

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:15 PM

I wish Carrie had killed Brody at the end. Now THAT would have been an ending.

I think Brody is innocent because of the suicide tape. Carrie looked shocked to see it. I mean who else had it but Saul and Nazir's people? Releasing that tape screamed frame up to me. Nazir knew Brody betrayed him and got him back and good.

Edited by EndoKE, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:23 PM.

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#17

HollaMcDollar

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:21 PM

Why would he point out to Carrie that his bomb had caused the explosion if he was actually guilty? I agree with EndoKE that Nazir framed him to make it look like he had caused it (he probably assumed he’d be killed in the explosion anyway, so the release of the suicide tape fit perfectly).



This is EXACTLY what the writers want- an endless debate of did he do it? It keeps people talking and keeps DL on the show.

BTW…the last scene with Brody and Carrie in the woods WAS FREAKING TERRIBLE

Edited by HollaMcDollar, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:20 PM.

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#18

Hallelujah

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:22 PM

I wish Carrie had killed Brody at the end. Now THAT would have been an ending.

When she walked out of the car at the end, I totally thought she had a gun in her hand. Alas, only shadows.

I guess since I feel the Carrie/Brody romance is compelling in its tragedy (seriously, literally EVERYTHING has come between them), I really liked the episode a lot.

I'm curious to know from those who didn't like the episode why? Was it because of the Carrie/Brody stuff? Carrie made the right choice in the end, and for the right reasons IMO. I don't think Brody caused the explosion (why would he?), so I didn't have a problem with Carrie helping him to escape either.

Or was it Quinn bailing on the mission because he didn't want to see Carrie hurt? IMO they've totally set up his return now that about half of the CIA's analysts have died in this explosion. I thought they had developed his coming to care for and respect Carrie throughout the entire season, so it didn't seem out of the blue. And I think Quinn made the right choice, as well.

I thought everything was very well-done. It was a slow build and I thought the Saul/Carrie scenes were the highlight. And they're setting up next season to be focused on them, too.

Overall, I just thought everything was well-done.

BTW…the last scene with Brody and Carrie in the woods WAS FREAKING TERRIBLE

You don't like the Brody/Carrie relationship. I'm sure the people who do thought just the opposite. I actually thought their scenes this episode seemed very real. Just little parts like when Carrie said, "Oh, you interrupted me" at the cabin, or when she could tell that he had a sad face. It just seemed real to me. Brody's lines were a little cliched in that final goodbye, but this is a guy who never knows what to say. It seemed sort of like something he would have seen in a movie and thought, "Oh, how romantic."

Edited by Hallelujah, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:24 PM.

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#19

mochamajesty

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:22 PM

Also: we have a new opening credit sequence to be looking forward to next season. Silver linings, people!


Why would he point out to Carrie that his bomb had caused the explosion if he was actually guilty? I agree with EndoKE that Nazir framed him to make it look like he had caused it (he probably assumed he'd be killed in the explosion anyway, so the release of the suicide tape fit perfectly).


Brody pointed it out seconds before it happened. He knew there wouldn't be enough time to stop it.

He pointed it out to deflect suspicion away from himself.

Brody has played Carrie all along, IMO.

I just realized that after two seasons, we are right back where we started: is Brody a terrorist or nor? Not sure how I feel about that.
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#20

Karelian

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

In order to keep up the tension about Brody's status, the writers have to keep him a cipher. Two years and he is more of an enigma than at the start. In the meanwhile, Carrie is suddenly completely blinded by love and has nothing to do with the original character. Quinn morphed into a sentimental hero from the cynical operative in a blink of an eye. Brody's wife was a sensible, strong woman - but two episodes ago, she suddenly opted for hot extra-marital sex in the same apartment where her children where sleeping and CIA was surveying.

Brody stays an enigma, while every other character shifts and morphs to fit a series of increasingly bizarre and astonishing events. The original, grounded series is dead.

Edited by Karelian, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:27 PM.

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#21

meandthemoon

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

I just realized that after two seasons, we are right back where we started: is Brody a terrorist or nor? Not sure how I feel about that.


I actually don't think they are going there again. I think the writers are now fully invested in the "Brody has been redeemed" theme. I didn't feel like next season will be about whether Brody did it or not, but about who actually did do it and Carrie going after THEM this time. And that that would be an opening to bring Brody back (*eyeroll*). YMMV
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#22

Nightmare Logic

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

Poor Brody's family they are going to get a whole lot of shit next season. Its gonna be fun watching Dana loose her shit. Also possibly Jessica and Mike because dating the wife of a terrorist has got to be great for the career aspirations of a guy in the army.
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#23

Hallelujah

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

Brody pointed it out seconds before it happened. He knew there wouldn't be enough time to stop it.

So you're saying Brody's plan all along was to force himself into being a fugitive? It just doesn't make any sense. If he is playing Carrie than Brody is a tremendous actor and Damian an even better one since he played it totally straight IMO.

Also, if he had been playing her all along why wouldn't he have killed her considering she's the only person who knows he's still alive and the IDs on his passport/driver's license?

Edited by Hallelujah, Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:29 PM.

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#24

HollaMcDollar

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:29 PM

Hallelujah:

I'm curious to know from those who didn't like the episode why?


I thought it was a cheap way to keep DL around for another season. The romance is OVER THE TOP at this point, it is ridiculous how fast Carrie “forgave” Brody after the bombing and generally the show has just gone down hill.

I understand why the writers did the bombing part, however. Half of this board will be CONVINCED that he did it, the other half will be equally CONVINCED he didn’t do it. They gave each side just enough ammo to support their position. NOBODY is going to believe Carrie if she tries to clear his name, she would be laughed out go the building (remember we get to things the other characters do not). It is just very frustrating how far the show has tanked since episode 2.4.
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#25

jeansheridan

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:29 PM

Mixed feelings. Happy that Saul and Quinn survived. Deeply frustrated with Carrie. Deeply. But if love makes you crazy ...then she's wack. Here's the thing, what if Quinn is the mole? What if Quinn needed Brody alive so they could frame him? I know it seemed like two weeks ago he would have shot Brody in the car, but we don't know for sure.

And is there something about killing a man when he's praying?

Then again, there is that scene when Saul is asking that other agent to think for himself. Is it wrong for Quinn to think for himself? If he's NOT the mole and he's sitting there thinking thinking thinking for two days. Yeah, he's an assassin, but he's not an assassin for hire. He kills for his country, for patriotism, not at the whim of some director. As he said, he kills "bad guys". So that's his line in the sand. I'm okay with a lot of gray area with Quinn. I think the writers have earned it.

That said, if Carrie had shot Brody, THAT would have been tragic and shocking and awesome in the most horrible way. They totally missed the boat on full on Greek Tragedy there. To kill the man you love, the man who gave you some precarious balance for a few fleeting moments, to kill the person who gets you in a moment of freaking out, of pain and panic. Yeah, they missed that one badly.

What they did not miss was the keep sadness of Saul standing in that room with all those dead people, praying over them. Mandy sold that. I felt the weight of all those souls on his shoulders and then when he was able to smile across all that carnage because Carrie chose him ...wow.
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#26

Milburn Stone

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:30 PM

Overall, I just thought everything was well-done.

Me too.
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#27

Lila82

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:30 PM

Relatively indifferent to this episode until they showed Saul in that sea of corpses. And then he started saying the Mourner's Kaddish, a prayer over the dead that's for the living, and Carrie came back from the dead and everything was very blurry. Oh, man. What an ending.

The rest...Peter Quinn lives! His conversion makes sense to me. He's grown to respect Carrie and her talent, and understands her well enough to know that Brody's death would cost them a terrific analyst. But more important, he kills bad guys, not guys that pose a threat to David Estes' career advancement. It dropped about ten degrees in my apartment when he promised a return engagement should Estes try to manipulate him again.

I don't care if Brody is guilty or not but I am excited that his exit means no more Dana! And lots more Saul/Carrie, hopefully with a side of Quinn. He might be a sniper first, but he does have excellent intelligence/analytical skills and works well with Carrie.

Edited by Lila82, Dec 17, 2012 @ 12:02 AM.

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#28

HollaMcDollar

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:36 PM

So you're saying Brody's plan all along was to force himself into being a fugitive? It just doesn't make any sense. If he is playing Carrie than Brody is a tremendous actor and Damian an even better one since he played it totally straight IMO.


I do not think he played it straight after the bomb went off at all, but as I said, that was all part of the plot- keep it ambiguous, get the viewers back next year to see what happens.

Karelian In order to keep up the tension about Brody’s status, the writers have to keep him a cipher. Two years and he is more of an enigma than at the start. In the meanwhile, Carrie is suddenly completely blinded by love and has nothing to do with the original character. Quinn morphed into a sentimental hero from the cynical operative in a blink of an eye. Brody's wife was a sensible, strong woman - but two episodes ago, she suddenly opted for hot extra-marital sex in the same apartment where her children where sleeping and CIA was surveying.

Brody stays an enigma, while every other character shifts and morphs to fit a series of increasingly bizarre and astonishing events. The original, grounded series is dead.
This post has been edited by Karelian: Today, 11:27 PM


BINGO!!!! +1000
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#29

Obfuscated

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:38 PM

I do wonder how they're going to manage S3, especially since they mentioned they have some of it planned out already- "the only thing we haven't decided on is how to end S3" and all.

So how many of those plans are they likely to destroy once they get enough outside feedback? I'd be sad if it turned completely into fan-pandering rather than story.
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#30

drtina1

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Posted Dec 16, 2012 @ 11:38 PM

I thought a lot of the finale was slow-moving because so much of it was focused on Carrie and Brody'd relationship. I didn't really like it that much. It wasted time.

Quinn's about-face on shooting Brody didn't set right with me either. He was watching Brody pray to Allah, which would make it seem like maybe he'd be more secure in shooting Brody. It's hard to say. Unless he realized that Estes' had his own agenda, and that Estes would set him up if it went wrong.

The writers have made it ambiguous once again in figuring out if Brody is responsible for the explosion or not. We never saw Brody and Nazir's conversation when Nazir took Brody. We just saw Brody's retelling of it. They also seemed to leave each other's presence on good terms. So, I wonder if Brody knew of this plan all along, but Nazir manipulated him and left out the clincher, which was he was going to frame him after the fact.

I'm glad that Saul is alive. He's now the head honcho again. Is there still suspicions that he is the mole? We never find out who it is, but he's one of the only ones left that's alive. He also seemed to think he could get Carrie a promotion, which seemed a bit of a stretch. Estes let him go, but I'm not sure he could have blackmailed Estes that much to give Carrie a greater position at the CIA.
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