195 replies to this topic

[TWoP Lockley]

Broken Hearts
Brody and Walden develop a chink in their political relationship, and it may impact their future, while Dana and Finn come to an understanding concerning their differences. Meanwhile, Carrie discovers she's not as looped in as she thought.

[Nightmare Logic]

I really loved the scenes between Carrie and Nasir and Brody and Walden. Even the scene between Dana and Finn was good. Not a bad third to last episode.

[toogoodtobetrue]

This is a completely different show from season 1. If I were Claire Danes, I'd be asking for my character to get killed off so I could leave the show.

[Brian C]

I love how Chris sounds like a character out of a Brian Regan joke ("The big yellow one is the sun!").

Last week, "There are big screens in every room!"

This week, "So are you a spy now?"

The Quotable Chris Brody.

[meandthemoon]

I thought this was the weakest episode of the season. I found the Carrie scenes laughable. We all know nothing is going to happen to her, so there is no suspense there. And Brody's scenes were just plain unbelievable. Those scenes proved to me that I won't enjoy a show that continues to center around Brody and the Carrie/Brody relationship.

My favorite parts were the CIA parts--Saul, Galvez, and Quinn. Even though they were on for very little.

And my speculation is that Galvez is the mole and he alerted Nazir.

[Scrb]

Wow so walden could be killed by a hacker and Brody was reluctant to give up the serial number but what did Walden say to get Brody wanting to kill him?

The bunker buster on Iran?

Walden telling him he can't quit?

Meanwhile Nazir is like a super villain from one of the Die Hard movies.

[Hallelujah]

Why oh why did Carrie return to the mill? At least the previews confirm that Nazir wasn't in that dark interior room, but never have I yelled at the TV "CARRIE WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" more than in this episode.

"Brody and Walden develop a chink in their political relationship"

Well that's the understatement of the year, isn't it? I thought his death was shocking in the context of this episode but not necessarily in the context of the show overall. But they really hammered home how much we are supposed to hate the show's two villains, Walden and Nazir. One man is saying "fuck your family, this is more important," and the other is saying "fuck everything else, your family is the most important." For Walden, his family is merely collateral damage in his quest for the presidency. Never mind the fact that his son can’t live with himself—he could be the most powerful person in the free world. For Nazir, family is the driving point of his whole purpose at this point.

I thought it was interesting that Brody "chose" both sides in this episode. We have been talking a lot about "where does Brody's loyalties lie? With Carrie or with Abu Nazir?" Are the two mutually exclusive, though? He seemed to honor both tonight, even though he did give Nazir up in the previous episode.

So with Walden gone and Abu Nazir resigned to die in America (presumably by the end of the season), does this set up Estes as the new villain? How will Walden's death affect his actions? Will he figure out that Brody played a part (Brody's fingerprints will be all over the pacemaker box, won't they?)?

Also found it interesting that Galvez returns in this episode and in the previews they mention a mole again. I never thought it was Galvez before but this show is making me more paranoid.

Edited by Hallelujah, Dec 2, 2012 @ 11:29 PM.

[nydude]

Anyone else laugh their butts off when Carrie ran back into the mill?

[Virtuoso80x]

Anyone else laugh their butts off when Carrie ran back into the mill?

We often find ourselves laughing about the incredibly ill-advised decisions of Carrie Mathison. This is just one of those times.

[MightyMac63]

I was thinking when Carrie was going back into the mill.."What in the hell is she doing?"

The sexual zingers between Brody, Jessica, and Mike at the very beginning. You really think that Brody still does not know Jessica and Mike had a fling?

Was Brody acting on Nazir's orders or was this his call alone? I think somehow Brody knew that Walden was going to be a rotten President. I can't remember if he knew that Walden paid off the daughter of the woman killed by Finn? And from what someone mentioned earlier about Nazir emphasizing that family was important to him?

And why is Brody's Blackberry still not bugged by the CIA? Very sloppy.

Galvez maybe the mole again? I was thinking that, but once again I think that Saul is involved.

Edited by MightyMac63, Dec 3, 2012 @ 7:18 AM.

[aphrodite-in-nyc]

Thank God Quinn lived. Every episode he survives is closer to getting him to season 3. But now what do they do with Brody? He won't be VP, he won't be a congressman, the Army won't have him back and it looks like his wife is going to dump him. Wonder if Carrie will tell what he did to get her out - somehow I doubt it .....

[Scrb]

The smash and grab scene was BS.

Out of the blue Nazir knows where Carrie was going and intercepted her?

He'd have to have surveilled her to know her car, where she was going, etc.

And ramming her car could have killed her. In broad daylight, he gets away with her?

Writers are probably hoping viewers overlook the absurdity in exchange for him blackmailing Brody and then Carrie and Nazir having that ridiculous convo about how they'll destroy the US in two centuries

[Mars477]

God, Carrie, you are so fucking stupid. At this point I'm not even sure how it's supposed to be suspenseful. Either he's not there, and Carrie lives, or he is there, shoots her, and she'll have had that coming.

Meanwhile Nazir is like a super villain from one of the Die Hard movies.

Hah. Seriously. Dude can hack anything!

(Is it really possible to fuck up somebody's pacemaker like that remotely? You would think that could be a security problem.)

Those scenes proved to me that I won't enjoy a show that continues to center around Brody and the Carrie/Brody relationship.

Yeah... me too. I'm really preferring the CIA stuff (including F. Murray Abraham!) over Carrie/Brody shenanigans. I want to keep Joy Mendez though. She definitely seems a lot less insane than Carrie, and odds are she wouldn't go off running into abandoned buildings unarmed and alone while looking for an armed terrorist mastermind. I loved that half of her scenes were basically Valerie Cruz going "Jesus Christ... these people".

Could anybody manage to get a screencap of her ID that she shows to the guard? My picture quality is not nearly good enough.

And on a related note, I'd like to require that, moving forward, every episode should have five minutes of Mandy Patinkin sharing a screen with F. Murray Abraham).

[stillshimpy]

Wow so walden could be killed by a hacker

Oh God, the plot is a mess and a half, but at least the acting is still stellar.

The VP basically has a kill switch, like an iPhone. All righty then.

My best laugh of the night was actually Dana immediately telling Finn her father is a spy. At least she saved Chris the time.

[Hallelujah]

For those wondering about the plausibility of Walden dying the way he did:
http://www.nytimes.c...-web.html?_r=1

Edited by TWoP Lockley, Dec 3, 2012 @ 2:01 PM.
deleted double text

[112288]

but at least the acting is still stellar.

I am so over the heavy breathing Brody does. He does it all the damn time now

[HollaMcDollar]

I am so over the heavy breathing Brody does. He does it all the damn time now

Heavy breathing/small mouth Damien Lewis and Ugly cry/quivering chin Claire Danes are quickly become two of the worst actors on television. They should be on about minute 13 of their 15 minutes of fame. I agree that this was one of the worst episodes of the show. Season 1 Carrie would have Season Brody arrested in seconds for killing or helping kill the VP. The show is becoming absurd IMO. Brody IS A BAD GUY, I don’t feel bad for him, nor do I care that he was tortured, John MCCain was tortured and isn’t trying to kill US Americans. The show has better actors (Quinn, Saul, etc.) who were used OFTEN last week in one of the best episodes of the season. I hope the writers take note of that and get things back on track.

[buttersister]

The VP basically has a kill switch, like an iPhone. All righty then.

Shout out to Cheney or what?
On the flip side, I am very nervous for Saul. And I don't like being nervous for Saul. I need to watch again to see the look on his face when they told him Estes knew he was being escorted upstairs/downstairs. Unless what I saw is what's making me nervous.

[jtenny123]

I am so over the heavy breathing Brody does. He does it all the damn time now

Yeah, I've loved Damien Lewis in other things I've seen (especially Band of Brothers), but how does his bugged out eyes and heavy breathing beat friggin' Bryan Cranston who uses more than two tics to convey emotion. I still love the show but I wish they didn't go the route of having Nazir come to the US and waltz around wherever he pleases. I do appreciate the argument the show is about how there are terrorist acts on both sides, but I wish it didn't go into this realm of ridiculousness.

[Worldyfan]

I was thinking when Carrie was going back into the mill.."What in the hell is she doing?"

I kept thinking, Why doesn't she wear sneakers? clack clack clack

[jeansheridan]

I'll go back in a minute and read everyone's no doubt insightful comments, but my first reaction--Wow, that SUCKED.

And I don't think the writers are being clever. I think they thought they were being clever. Carrie should be dead. There's no reason in the world Carrie should be alive. Not one.

[bcharmer]

but how does his bugged out eyes and heavy breathing beat friggin' Bryan Cranston who uses more than two tics to convey emotion.

Good question. I'm still not over that. And I've about had it with Mopey McSweaterhands. Snap out of it, kid.

[jeansheridan]

One thing about this show is that you really could kill Carrie and Brody off and still have a show. But you can't kill Saul or Quinn please. Pretty please. Unless F. Abraham Murray is their new Broadway actor making some retirement money and Mandy is out. I think I could handle that switch. IF Quinn stays. And hey, why not Valerie Cruz. I'm not sure why everyone loves her so much, but she hasn't annoyed me in the least and she seems competent. And sane. So season 3--The Murray/Quinn/Cruz show? With the morally shady Estes as the "big bad"? And Nazir can stick around.

[shapeshifter]

Random impossibilities aside, I kind of liked it. Brody grinning at seeing Carrie getting away was so crazed.
And the truck driver scene was equally crazy enjoyable.
But, speaking of unbelievabilities: Did Brody put his hands on Walden's neck?
The biggest snapper of suspension of disbelief was Brody yelling Nazir's name, first in the big echoy penthouse, and then in the frickin VP's office.

So. Does Mike wear cologne? Not that it really matters, given their guilty looks.

I wonder what Dana would think of her dad killing the VP who paid off the accident victim's family. No doubt she would find it morally wrong, but I wonder if she'd think it was his karma. For the record, I still think getting paid off is way better than dragging it through the courts and giving half to a bunch of lawyers and insurance companies.

Could Estes somehow actually be the mole after all? Like maybe he's helping to axe the VP so Nazir won't spill about the drone strike?
Not likely, but it would kind of mirror paying off the accident victim.

[evalusion]

The credibility issue that really got me this episode was that I couldn't understand who was supposed to be in the loop about Brody, and who wasn't, and why. I don't actually find it that hard to believe that under normal circumstances. Nazir could walk around the DC area undetected. Unlike Osama Bin Laden, he doesn't have particularly distinctive facial features, and I didn't recognize him without the beard, so I don't think too many people would look twice. Yes, the CIA has facial recognition software, but it's not like they have the manpower to run that software everywhere and at every checkpoint 24 hours a day, so unless they know where to expect to look, there's no reason for it to catch Nazir. But, at this point, they say local law enforcement in MD and VA is aware that Nazir is in the country. No one has leaked it? No one is scrutinizing him in convenience stores? No one is monitoring Brody's phone in case Nazir (or Carrie) tries to contact him? Galvez can roll out of a hospital bed and be in on the operation, but the people actually guarding Brody at the safehouse haven't been told to keep an eye on him or avoid having him alone with the VP? The CIA didn't totally trust him yet-- not one of those safehouse guards was a black-ops guy answering to Peter? The attorney general can know the full details of Brody's actions, but Walden can't even have a hint not to trust him? Does everyone hate Walden as much as Brody does?

I was satisfied that Brody's feelings for Carrie were on some level real, and that he went about showing that in the way that made it least likely for them to live happyish ever after, but there had to be some way to convey that same character arc without totally throwing out credibility.

My favorite part of the episode was when Valerie Cruz walked Brody in to the super awkward moment between Mike and Jess, and then slowly backed out with a look on her face that was all "I'ma let you idiots work out this mess."

[Chocula]

I know there are a lot of haters, but I LOVED this episode, save for Carrie going back to the warehouse after escaping. That was crazy. But the rest of it was actually surprisingly realistic.


The pacemaker/implanted defibrillator stuff was actually quite brilliant and technologically plausible. These devices, in particular the device they depicted on the show, are capable of remote monitoring via radio and/or internet signals. Fancy ones can alert physicians of dangerous arrhythmias. And physicians can remotely (though typically in the same room) alter a pacemaker/implanted defibrillator to change the parameters under which it shocks the heart. Theoretically, it wouldn't be that hard to hack into that radio signal that can alter the shock parameters. Then that person could alter the shock parameters to shock the heart into a dangerous arrhythmia that can lead to death.

The car accident is possible. Nazir hit Carrie from the passenger side. Side airbags should have prevented her from being severely harmed. And even though Nazir carrying Carrie away in broad daylight seems a bit less realistic, think about it. If you saw someone dragging a person away from a car accident, you would probably think he was rushing her off to the hospital.

And as far as being seen, he doesn't care. He's changed his appearance and the general public has no idea that he is in the USA. Think about all the terrorists plots that have been thwarted in the US. Would you be looking for a clean-shaven Osama Bin Laden in a baseball cap chilling in DC? Nazir knows that the CIA knows he's in the country. He knows his time is almost up. The walls are closing in, and he's just trying to pull off one good hit before going out in a blaze of glory. If he cared about not being seen, he wouldn't have strolled into a convenience store full of security cameras minutes before running into Carrie.

And don't me started on Jessica swapping spit with Mike and Brody within seconds of each other. GROSS! And as much as I love Dana, she needs to get off her high horse when it comes to Finn. He would never have driven recklessly if she hadn't egged him on. Yeah he was a douchebag for driving away, but if your dad was Walden, you'd be a scaredy cat too.

ETA:

The biggest snapper of suspension of disbelief was Brody yelling Nazir's name, first in the big echoy penthouse, and then in the frickin VP's office

.

WORDY MCWORD!

And...

Not sure if I can say this here, just conjecture. But there is only one reason for Galvez to still be alive after all this time. MOLEY MOLEY MOLEY MOLE!!!

Edited by Chocula, Dec 3, 2012 @ 1:47 AM.

[btp]

I also seem to be in the minority that liked the episode.

See, for me, the character moments trump all, and I'll suffer a fair amount of questionable plotting as long as I am paid off in quality moments of character interaction. And this episode had quite a few of those.

As to the plot contrivances, I feel they're consistent with the genre, and, as such, they don't bother me. I mean, really, how much of what has happened in this show, from day one, has been 100% realistic? So maybe the believability factor has dropped a bit this year, but is it possible we're all being more critical now of a show that we've all put on such a high pedestal that it's now impossible for it to live up to the shrine we've built for it?

And frankly, to my mind, the show hasn't lost all that much believability. I can come up with a plausible explanation or at least a credible fanwank for each of the questions people have raised (at least so far). I don't know... I just don't see the whole "this show is not what it was last year" angle. I mean, of course it's not the same show, at least not exactly, because a lot of the Big Questions we had last year have been answered. But others have arisen to take their places, and by and large, this story still has the capacity to move me pretty regularly and to surprise me now and again, and that's pretty much all I ask. Plus I think they've maintained the quality throughout, despite the occasional nit here and there.

I don't know. I'm still fine with it, and still looking forward to the season finale.

Edited by btp, Dec 3, 2012 @ 1:49 AM.

[evalusion]

And don't me started on Jessica swapping spit with Mike and Brody within seconds of each other. GROSS!

I don't think her spit got anywhere near Brody. He pretty pointedly gave her a hug and a kiss on the cheek when he came in, and they didn't get any cozier after that.

[econ07]

It seems like Estes is less likely the mole and more likely trying to clean house of the people who know he doubted Carrie in season 1. If it ever gets out that Brody almost blew himself up in a VP bunker, largely due to Estes mistakenly rejecting Carrie's analysis, it would be his head on a plate. This to me is the reason for almost taking out Brody and detaining Saul at the end of the episode. They both know.

[Merrythought]

I don't know... parts of this episode seemed so amateurish. The plot is just getting ridiculous. I was thinking that instead of this being a drama, it seems like parts were from movies about comic book superheroes.

I just didn't believe the scene with Carrie and Abu Nazir. I didn't believe Walden's death scene, even though it may be possible, and I didn't like the scene at the end when Saul was detained.

I think the writers are too focused on plot twists and shock, when they should concentrate more on writing scenes with quiet mysterious intensity. Tonight's episode was almost cartoonish.

Edited by Merrythought, Dec 3, 2012 @ 2:03 AM.