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2-9: "Two Hats" 2012.11.25


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#1

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 3:26 PM

Things for Brody are threatening to spiral out of control, forcing him to make a phone call he has been avoiding; Carrie preps for a pivotal meeting; Saul teams with Virgil and Max for an assignment.


Remember, hold your posts until the episode has aired completely and keep it on topic please.

#2

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

Whoa.

I totally didn’t see the Peter stuff coming. Saul was right that everything was too easy. I don’t understand why the guy Quinn is working for (Dahl?) would want Brody dead. Or was Brody lying about everything? Or was Nazir?

But Estes didn’t want Quinn to kill Brody until Nazir was confirmed captured. Why?

The pace of this episode was very misleading. Very casual almost, and then everything just blew up. I was having flashbacks to the suitcase bomb from last season when Carrie got out of the car, convinced the explosives in the news van would detonate.

Not sure how I feel about the Jess/Mike reunion. I mean, yes, it was inevitable, but it seemed like exactly the wrong time for something like that to happen.

I think this the most stable we’ve seen Carrie all season, which is pretty commendable given the stress of the situation. I do think she’s more in control than we the audience give her credit for.

#3

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:03 PM

My guess is that Estes is concerned about his career. He told Saul earlier that if word got out about Brody being a terrorist, his (Estes's) career would be over.

Once Brody is no longer of any use to the CIA, Estes probably wants him out of the picture before word can get out about his involvement with Nazir.

#4

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:18 PM

Estes is definitely protecting the fact that Brody knows that Estes and the Vice President committed war crimes.

That said, could someone fill me in as to how Saul became suspicious of Quinn? I presume I missed something in the last episode or did Saul being suspicious really just come out of nowhere this episode?

#5

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:36 PM

I totally didn’t see the Peter stuff coming.


Me neither, and I must say that I am hugely disappointed. I don't want Quinn to be a bad guy! He has quickly become my favorite character and I really don't want him to turn evil and die at the end of the season. I hope there's more to this story than meets the eye.

And here I thought Quinn was brought in as a new love interest for Carrie. Silly me.

Edited by meandthemoon, Nov 26, 2012 @ 2:04 AM.


#6

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:41 PM

That said, could someone fill me in as to how Saul became suspicious of Quinn? I presume I missed something in the last episode or did Saul being suspicious really just come out of nowhere this episode?


When Carrie first met Peter in "New Car Smell" she asked Virgil to look into him because she's never met or heard of him before. (And she was right, he's a black ops guy.) In the show's universe that was about 2-3 weeks ago. My guess is that Max and Virgil hadn't found any suspicious stuff until they located his apartment.

I can only imagine what Carrie might do when she learns that Quinn, whom it's obvious she trusts at this point, is planning to kill Brody.

My guess is that Estes is concerned about his career. He told Saul earlier that if word got out about Brody being a terrorist, his (Estes's) career would be over.

True, but Saul knows. And so doe Carrie. Saul is smart enough to piece this together just like Carrie pieced Nazir's activity together last season. The parallels in the stories this season and last--despite the fact that the stories themselves have been very different--have been interesting to track. I've gotten deja vu a few times watching.

#7

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:41 PM

The Peter Quinn side story was completely random, IMO. I do not think anyone could have expected that twist. I do believe Estes is trying to save himself w/ what Brody might know.

#8

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:49 PM

Me neither, and I must say that I am hugely disappointed. I don't want Quinn to be a bad guy! He has quickly become my favorite character and I really don't want him to turn evil and die at the end of the season.

What's interesting is that, to many/most of the audience, he is the bad guy right now. I mean, he was two seconds away from killing Brody. And until we know his motives, he may very well remain the bad guy.

But, objectively, he is, as Estes said, here to "kill terrorists." And, despite how hard Brody tries to rectify his actions and help the CIA and fix what he broke, he may always be, in the eyes of the CIA/Estes/Quinn/Saul (basically everybody except Carrie), a terrorist. So does that make him evil?

Just more of the grey area this show is keen on playing with.

#9

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:55 PM

What's interesting is that, to many/most of the audience, he is the bad guy right now. I mean, he was two seconds away from killing Brody. And until we know his motives, he may very well remain the bad guy.

But, objectively, he is, as Estes said, here to "kill terrorists." And, despite how hard Brody tries to rectify his actions and help the CIA and fix what he broke, he may always be, in the eyes of the CIA/Estes/Quinn/Saul (basically everybody except Carrie), a terrorist. So does that make him evil?

Just more of the grey area this show is keen on playing with.
1


BINGO! Great post! Brody still conspired to kill the VP and isn’t telling the truth about Abu Nazir. He played Carrie like a fiddle this episode.

#10

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Posted Nov 25, 2012 @ 11:59 PM

Estes wants Brody dead in order to protect his own career. He doesn't want the VP to ever know Brody was a terrorist.

#11

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:03 AM

When Carrie first met Peter in "New Car Smell" she asked Virgil to look into him because she's never met or heard of him before. (And she was right, he's a black ops guy.) In the show's universe that was about 2-3 weeks ago. My guess is that Max and Virgil hadn't found any suspicious stuff until they located his apartment.


Right, but how would that translate to them reporting the info to Saul? That's what confused me.

But yeah, Quinn is not really a bad guy, he is just a black ops operative. He's doing what he is told by very high ranking U.S. government officials. I do like the twist on the whole "mole" idea - in that while he may not be working with Carrie and Saul's operation, he is still working for the U.S. government.

#12

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:03 AM

I care about this: Quinn is a CIA agent! He's not a Nazir plant or mole. He might want to put a round between Brody's eyes, but he's on the right side. Yay.

Also? Jessica is a first rate idiot. Who wears a low-cut negligee when sharing a bed with your two teenage children? Jesus, Jess.

Finally: Brody's relationship with Dana remains his moral center. No wonder Jess let that so-so wine get to her head for a night of poor decision making.

#13

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:07 AM

On another note, the episode is called Two Hats b/c ALL of the main players are playing both sides of the fence, in their own way. Carrie, Quinn, Estes, Saul, Mike, Jessica, etc. etc.

Right, but how would that translate to them reporting the info to Saul? That's what confused me.

But yeah, Quinn is not really a bad guy, he is just a black ops operative. He's doing what he is told by very high ranking U.S. government officials. I do like the twist on the whole "mole" idea - in that while he may not be working with Carrie and Saul's operation, he is still working for the U.S. government.


Saul is in on everything with Carrie. That isn’t surprising to me at all.

#14

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:08 AM

I don’t understand why the guy Quinn is working for (Dahl?) would want Brody dead. Or was Brody lying about everything? Or was Nazir?


Estes wants Brody dead because (1) Brody is a hideous embarrassment on Estes's watch; (2) Brody is an eyewitness to the drone strike; (3) Brody very nearly killed Estes along with the Veep. A patient man, Estes is willing to allow Brody to make Estes a hero before killing him. Once Brody is dead, he need only dismiss the already discredited Carrie as a free-lance and then discredit Saul.

It may be, however, that Peter Quinn will come to mirror Brody's divided loyalties.

#15

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:11 AM

If Quinn had shot Brody there in the limo, what was he going to do next, dispose of the body in the woods next to the tailor? I suppose the CIA has other disposal mechanisms available, but how would they explain the disappearance of this high profile congressman?

And who was the F. Murray Abraham character again?

Sorry, I'm finding it harder to pay attention as the season wears on.

#16

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:12 AM

The Peter Quinn side story was completely random, IMO. I do not think anyone could have expected that twist. I do believe Estes is trying to save himself w/ what Brody might know.


To be fair to the show, it really didn't seem all that random. When Estes sent Peter in he told Saul he was sending someone and then was incredibly pointed in how that was all the explanation he was going to offer. "Fine, but I'm sending you a guy." (in response to Saul's proposing the operation with Carrie) "what guy?" "A guy."

So they really weren't that mysterious about it. When Carrie meets him she goes on about asking where he was (to his face) and why she's never heard of him before. At Gettysburg they had Galvez staring at Quinn like he had two heads and they even brought in Seth Gilliam for a two line part that he proceeded to play "I AM SUSPICIOUS" for the back rows. For a guy who was there just to get immediately shot in an attack, Seth Gilliam played that very, very oddly and I do think it was meant to indicate that the CIA people were suspicious of Peter, because he's basically a John Doe to all of them, but he's running things.

But I'll admit, they fooled me to an extent, because I've been guessing he was a hardcore spook for weeks and after Gettysberg, I started wondering if he was actually working with the CIA as an Israeli intelligence officer. So I actually over-guessed how twisty Peter's real deal might be.

Not sure how I feel about the Jess/Mike reunion. I mean, yes, it was inevitable, but it seemed like exactly the wrong time for something like that to happen.


In fairness, Jessica did just find out that Brody lied about Carrie being part of the op, so she has every reason to believe he's still cheating on her...and he is, so she knows their marriage is actually just over. I did wonder if it wasn't a sign that Mike's going to die though.

As for why Estes wants Brody dead, I don't think it's about concealing the whole "he knows what the VP did." Saul has known since last season and it can't be proven. Besides, Brody's 'deal' was that he'd help them get the terrorist cell, then he'd leave politics and get to live in obscurity, elsewhere. I think Quinn being ready to kill Brody wasn't about the VP's actions, there just wasn't ever any real deal in place. Brody suspected as much "You don't have that kind of authority" (to Carrie) as it was. They don't want him to go on trial for all the reasons you can name, including that it would be a tremendous embarrassment on a lot more levels than anything having to do with the VP.

Anyway, I was just surprised that Quinn was going to kill him in a limo and then presumably drive the body somewhere, but I wasn't surprised that there is no deal.

That might be a good thing, because it seems pretty darned obvious that Brody was either being played or he was in on some deception with Nazir. For instance, what the heck was he writing down while on the phone with Carrie? Also, third time that random shovel on Brody's office wall was in a shot. Weirdest prop choice ever. I kept expecting Brody to kill Estes or the Veep with it.

(2) Brody is an eyewitness to the drone strike


That shouldn't matter, Pallas, because at the time whatever country that was meant to be shared pictures, which the U.S. said were false and merely propaganda. Brody and his taped confession make the least credible witness when it comes to whatever kind of bomb he could drop on Walden or Estes.

They'd just have to brand him as a traitor (which isn't entirely inaccurate) and that's all anyone would really pay attention to. But he's an embarrassment to the Marine corps and Walden thinking about him as a running mate is the biggest problem, I would think.

Brody can't prove anything about the drone strike and isn't as if his word's going to be good for much if he's outed as a terrorist operative, who came home and deceived the hell out of everyone. Brody was the person who tanked his own credibility there with the interviews he gave, etc.

Edited by stillshimpy, Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:22 AM.


#17

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:20 AM

I don't know, I kind of loved this episode. I didn't see the Peter stuff coming, but I totally liked it. I've been suspicious of him since he didn't die in Gettysburg. And even though this ep suggests he's working for the CIA only, I still have suspicions. I like where this is going.

#18

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:22 AM

As for why Estes wants Brody dead, I don't think it's about concealing the whole "he knows what the VP did." Saul has known since last season and it can't be proven. Besides, Brody's 'deal' was that he'd help them get the terrorist cell, then he'd leave politics and get to live in obscurity, elsewhere. I think Quinn being ready to kill Brody wasn't about the VP's actions, there just wasn't ever any real deal in place. Brody suspected as much "You don't have that kind of authority" (to Carrie) as it was. They don't want him to go on trial for all the reasons you can name, including that it would be a tremendous embarrassment on a lot more levels than anything having to do with the VP.

This. Quinn has been tasked to ice Brody when the time was right not because of Walden or somebody's paymasters on Capitol Hill, but because, in the estimation of the Company, Brody's too dangerous to leave alive for trial. Frankly, I'm kinda rooting for Quinn. Brody is a terrorist, he's definitely not all the way turned, and he's still very, very dangerous.

I'm just so stupidly happy to see Joy Mendez again.

Good to see not-"Crazy in Love" Carrie again.

#19

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:30 AM

What's interesting is that, to many/most of the audience, he is the bad guy right now. I mean, he was two seconds away from killing Brody. And until we know his motives, he may very well remain the bad guy.

But, objectively, he is, as Estes said, here to "kill terrorists." And, despite how hard Brody tries to rectify his actions and help the CIA and fix what he broke, he may always be, in the eyes of the CIA/Estes/Quinn/Saul (basically everybody except Carrie), a terrorist. So does that make him evil?


Yes, you're right. But I guess I don't want him to be a bad guy in the sense of him doing something illegal or for the wrong reasons (i.e., to protect the political aspirations of Estes). I'm totally cool with the CIA taking Brody out (I've been hating the way the CIA, Carrie in particular, has been handling him with kid gloves given all the traitorous shit he has done), but I want it to be on the up and up.

I lost a lot of respect for Jess tonight. Not necessarily for sleeping with Mike (Brody has cheated on her enough times), but for doing it when her kids in the apartment. Uncool. And seriously, who goes to bed dressed like that with their kids?

It's kind of obvious that the Brodys will separate by the end of the season. I just don't know how it will play into the larger plot.

Edited by meandthemoon, Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:30 AM.


#20

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:31 AM

Also? Jessica is a first rate idiot. Who wears a low-cut negligee when sharing a bed with your two teenage children? Jesus, Jess

She wore the negligee because she was going to have sex with Mike. I assume she didn't want to risk waking up her kids and getting caught changing into it which is why she wore it to bed.

#21

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:32 AM

Also, third time that random shovel on Brody's office wall was in a shot. Weirdest prop choice ever. I kept expecting Brody to kill Estes or the Veep with it.


I love that this shovel still sticks on your craw, shimpy. My guess is that it was a prop used by Rep. Brody in an honorary ground-breaking in the district, then sent him as a memento.

About the drone strike -- Brody is the proof: an eyewitness. A very high-profile and credible eyewitness. (In fact, having the newly-rescued Brody testify about the strike might have done more for Nazir's alleged cause than a terrorist spectacle, but I guess that's why I'm not cut out for that line of work.) Though I agree that Estes's reasons for wanting Brody removed have at least as much to do with Estes's career goals as Walden's misdeeds.

So Quinn fell into the trap he once tried setting for Brody: "Now call your handler," he once coaxed Brody, after Carrie had approached him. Did he really not see that Saul would have expected Diaz to call him, or would not then have had Quinn followed?

#22

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:43 AM

She wore the negligee because she was going to have sex with Mike.


Yup, that's basically the deal, it wasn't spontaneous on Jessica's part. I'm pretty sure Jess decided she and Brody were just over in the "I can't, I can't, I can't!" scene (where that's all he tells her as to why he's apparently choosing the CIA over everything) but their relationship started to decompose from the moment Dana told her it was Carrie at the police station.

Jessica, who has freaked out and called repeatedly, over and over when Brody left after she told him to greeted Mike with a "Hi!" when he showed up at the door and apparently hadn't bothered to badger anyone about Brody's whereabouts although he's been missing for two days.

I also thought that Jessica was making it sort of clear to at least Dana that she was planning on slipping into the "guest room" with Mike, when she kept insisting that he sleep there. However, after Mike busted out the full-on Dad treatment Dana has been missing "You will not talk to me like that. Get your stuff and we're going to go, even if I have to carry you out of here kicking and screaming." I doubt she minded. Mike set about restoring balance to Dana's kid-world at long last by putting her back into the "You're the kid, I'm the adult-parental-figure and I'm running this show, got me?" place, which no one has bothered to do for two seasons...so the poor kid feels safer at long last.

As for getting it on with Mike on the sly, eh, I think it's actually indicative of Jess definitively choosing, vs. starting an affair, which means she is going to end up having to tell Chris (Dana pretty much knows how troubled her parents marriage is...and Chris does actually think of Mike as a dad).

So it wasn't exactly great form or the best way to do things, but Jess tried to do things by the rules when Brody came home and look at where it has gotten her.

ETA:

I love that this shovel still sticks on your craw, shimpy. My guess is that it was a prop used by Rep. Brody in an honorary ground-breaking in the district, then sent him as a memento.


Hehe, I know you're right, Pallas, but remember how I used to fixate on squash in Game of Thrones scenes? I just have this thing with set dressing. I notice the weirdest stuff. For instance, Jessica's standmixer drives me nuts for reasons I just won't even go into.

My new pal, random shovel could tell you all about it :-)

Brody is the proof: an eyewitness. A very high-profile and credible eyewitness


I don't agree on this one though, that confessional tape complete explodes Brody's credibility. "So, Congressman Brody...you came home and...apparently lied and lied and lied some more. Huh. You plotted terrorist acts and you say that you didn't wear a vest, you changed your mind? What about this tape of you screaming for a lawyer and denying everything?"

He's credible as he is right now, but he's incredibly easy to discredit and very, very quickly. "You saw what? Yeah sure you did. Wanna tell me about the fish you caught last weekend and how big it was??? And how THAT was why you were going to blow up the Vice President, because the fish told you to?"

Edited by stillshimpy, Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:49 AM.


#23

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:45 AM

About the drone strike -- Brody is the proof: an eyewitness


I can't wait for him to march up the stand and tell the jury how and why he was on Abu Nizar's compound when it happened.

I am sure they'll take his word for it

#24

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:47 AM

I can't wait for him to march up the stand and tell the jury how and why he was on Abu Nizar's compound when it happened.

I am sure they’ll take his word for it



LOL

#25

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:50 AM

but their relationship started to decompose from the moment Dana told her it was Carrie at the police station


Their relationship started decomposing when Brody was deployed 8 years ago. They slapped the bandage on it when he returned and it held until he stood her up at the fund raising function he was supposed to make a speech at. I think that was what broke the camel's back as far as Jess is concern

#26

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:52 AM

I think this the most stable we’ve seen Carrie all season, which is pretty commendable given the stress of the situation. I do think she’s more in control than we the audience give her credit for.

I think we've seen plenty of evidence that Carrie is only really at her best when she's under stress. At home in a quiet room, she's a mess, being chased by Hasbollah gun thugs, she's firing on all cylinders.

They glossed over (pretty well, I thought) whether or not Brody told Saul et al that he was the one who warned Nazir about the attack in Beirut. Not sure what this means, but it seemed clear they did this deliberately. Hmmm.

#27

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:56 AM

I can't wait for him to march up the stand and tell the jury how and why he was on Abu Nizar's compound when it happened.

I am sure they'll take his word for it

Hah!

Also... so what? It's been a while and the fine details are escaping me, but isn't collateral damage from drone strikes just a fact of life? It's tragic, but it's not some kind monstrous evil. That it happened on Walden's watch paints him as a fuckup, not a monster. And it's not like those who would want to sign up to join AQ or other related agencies need a rallying cry to do so.

Plus, I'm still convinced that Abu Nazir may have herded those kids into that building himself. The man's a terrorist. He kills civilians. I wouldn't put it past him.

#28

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:57 AM

EXCELLENT EPISODE. I knew that hunky Quinn was more than what was projected. So many twists and turns in this show.

ETA: bc I can't spell excellent

Edited by leapjoy, Nov 26, 2012 @ 1:04 AM.


#29

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:57 AM

I lost a lot of respect for Jess tonight. Not necessarily for sleeping with Mike (Brody has cheated on her enough times), but for doing it when her kids in the apartment.

Haven't they said that he had all but moved in right before Brody came back? Odds are he had already been sleeping at the house. The kids (or at least Dana) probably knew what was up. I only fault her now for doing it when she knows her husband isn't dead. Sure he's cheated but two wrongs don't make a right. And again, I don't know who I want to punch in the face more, Jess or Dana. I expect Dana to call her boyfriend the VP'S kid and drop the little tidbit that her Dad has been working with the CIA for a while now. Because Dana's always gotta find a way to back a bad situation worse.

I started wondering if he was actually working with the CIA as an Israeli intelligence officer.

That's what I was guessing too. Now I'll go back to assuming that's what Saul is, but the CIA maybe doesn't know it.

#30

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:59 AM

Must say having a non Carrie-centric episode was refreshing. I loved that moment between Saul and Peter when they both KNOW what Saul has done, but they won't say anything. Hee.

And wow, Max can be competent. That was nice to see. Although I'm fairly sure Peter made him when he took that picture of the bus. Quinn was looking right at him. I do think it was a bit silly to send Max out to spy on Quinn when they've been sitting in a room together for weeks--Quinn kind of knows what the dude looks like and probably knows what he drives.

There are so many reasons to kill off Brody. He's unreliable, unstable, a loose end and a confessed traitor. I'm a bit ashamed that it didn't occur to me sooner that Estes would do that. I do forget the man is ruthless. Have any of you heard his real accent (in RL?). He's just so damn British it's charming.

Altogether a very satisfying episode. Oh and I love that ALL the characters had the same reaction as you guys last week--how the hell did Nazir get into the States? Hee. That plot point didn't bother me too much, but I love that the characters are with you guys!