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2-5: "The Doctor" 2012.10.28


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#1

TWoP Tennison

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 2:18 PM

As Regina tries to refrain from using her magic in order to regain Henry's trust, she starts seeing a ghost from her past; Mary Margaret and Emma find a survivor from an Ogre massacre; Regina struggles to learn the dark arts.

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#2

shapeshifter

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:01 PM

So for the Halloween episode we have...Frankenstein?

Henry to his steed (horse): So anything you want to tell me?
Steed: Shakes head more vigorously than Mr. Ed ever did
shapeshifter: (Loudly) Hahahahaha

Henceforth Emma shall be known as the Bobby Goren of Fairy Tale Land.

Beanstalk with giant at top guarding something I need? No problem. Let me get my axe.

#3

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:01 PM

So uh, is anyone else kind of disappointed that Dr. Whale is Dr. Frankenstien? I donít know how I feel about throwing other worlds into the mix of fairy tales.

I enjoy the episode though, Iíll admit that I think Iím getting sucked into Reginaís redemption arc. Which leads me to my favorite line of the night:

Jimmy: Itís been tough without using magic?
Regina: Yes, itís been two days now..

Paraphrasing, of course.

#4

Lily Patil

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:02 PM

"It's Frahnkensteen!"

#5

Tzigone

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:03 PM

I'm not into Regina or her redemptive path, so this episode did very little for me. I don't feel sorry for Regina at all that she lost her love this time - not after how many she has killed and how many she made suffer. I do wonder about the person the heart actually belonged to.

So, Regina was already married - timeline issues need to be set straight for me. No clues on whether Jefferson was with anyone yet.

Loved, loved, loved Henry asking after Daniel because he wasn't okay. The kid is awesome.

Guess it's good Emma's lie-detector was working this week.

Charming had no place punching Whale. But they both treated it a mostly non-issue, so whatever.

I think we've established the lack of morals in Jefferson and Whale, too. These are not good people.

FTR, I do not think Rumpel, Regina, Jefferson, Whale, Hook or Cora is trustworthy. They've all lied too many times, done too many horrific things. Well, actually, we've only seen Hook let things happen, but that's close enough in my book.

Jefferson was more like Regina is now. On the straight and narrow not because he felt he'd done wrong but because something else mattered more (his kid). But when it came down to it, he was still willing to do very bad things for what he wanted most.

Edited by Tzigone, Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:06 PM.


#6

Senna

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:03 PM

Well, the Storybrooke parts were beyond cheesy. Monster!Daniel was just ... urgh.

It was interesting that Jefferson was working with Rumple before Regina went full evil (isn't anyone asking where the queen is gallivanting off to all the time?). Is the man ageless? An effect of realm-jumping? Or just the result of a half-baked timeline?

#7

scarlett45

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:04 PM

"Then love again."

Wonderful quote. Holding onto the past, focusing on the pain of losing Daniel rather than moving forward with her life is what allowed Regina to become the type of person who would curse an entire land of individuals to seek revenge- not to mention murdering her own father.

Can Regina let go of the past now that the curse has been broke? Now that others are finding their happy endings reuniting with their loved ones?

#8

WestCar20

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:05 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about Frankenstein, but I am clear on still not liking Mulan and thinking Aurora is a waste of space.
Is he supposed to be the Wizard of Oz, too?
Also, Daniels return kind of reminded me of Steven King's Pet Sematary.

#9

zephrus

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:06 PM

I enjoyed the episode but I really didn't buy Regina going to Hopper for help. I think it would take her way longer to admit to needing that kind of help. They seem to be fast tracking her redemption story. I find that disappointing but perhaps they want her with one foot on the side of good by the time her mother shows up.

Also, can the writers please decide how they want magic to work in Storybrooke. I know there's been a line establishing its "unpredictable" but so far it just comes across as plot convenient. Pick some rules and stick with them.

#10

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:07 PM

Lord knows subtlety is not really this show's thing, but I would've much preferred it if Frankenstein's name hadn't been said. The same goes for the magic vs. science undercurrent. I did like that Frankenstein's world has no color. That cracked me up.

Edited by Gin and Tonic, Oct 29, 2012 @ 9:22 AM.


#11

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:08 PM

I really felt bad for Regina. The look on her face as she had to kill Daniel just tugged on my heartstrings.

Jiminy was a really good doctor, here. Very sympathetic and non-judgy of Regina, and encouraging her. Yay Jiminy!

So Rumpel got Jefferson to get Frankenstein to come and "fail" at resurrecting Daniel so that Regina would come back to learn more evil magic? Dang, Rumpel gets more and more Big Bad-y with every passing episode.

I'm not terribly excited about bringing Frankenstein into the mix. It just feels too...well, science-y, to be in a show full of magic. Perhaps it's that Frankenstein is the most "modern" character they've introduced; everyone else is from old fairy/folktales, but Frankenstein was written in the 1800's.

ETA: Though I suppose Hook is fairly modern, by those standards, too. He just feels "Older" due to the world he's from, if that makes sense.

I was also hoping Whale would be arm-less forever; one of those "magic comes with a price" things. ('Cause using a magical heart is totally cheating if you're doing science, as far as I'm concerned.)

Edited by TheSporkWielder, Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:10 PM.


#12

xqueenfrostine

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:08 PM

So uh, is anyone else kind of disappointed that Dr. Whale is Dr. Frankenstien? I donít know how I feel about throwing other worlds into the mix of fairy tales.


I hated it for similar reasons. The further away the show moves away from a "storybook" theme (and no, Gothic horror novels are not storybooks), the more disjointed it all feels.

I thought this episode was awful. Not even the return of Snow and Emma could save it. I love Lana Parilla and think she's marvelous as Regina, but her scenes this episode were painfully cheesy. And I definitely don't remember the actor playing Daniel being this bad in Stable Boy. Everything about the scene with him and Regina in the stables was ridiculously heavy handed. Also how could Daniel be so well preserved if Regina wasn't a practitioner of magic at the time of his death? I doubt Cora cared about the state of his corpse.

Ugh. Dr. Frankenstein. I was so not a fan of this theory and the episode didn't warm me up to Whale in this role. And I really don't feel the story worked well without seeing more of the world Dr. Frankenstein came from. It just felt too convenient to pick up a doctor with the necessary technology and plop him into the Enchanted Forest by way of Jefferson. It didn't help that Frankenstein's world was shown like a black and white movie. It made the juxtaposition between Fairy Tale Land and his world all the more unbelievable.

And oh God, the return of Emma's super power. While I was pleased that Emma was suspicious of Hook when he was found, I wish they would have just stick with the perfectly reasonable logic she offered Mulan. I guess without her power, turning Hook into ogre-bait would have been too harsh but still. It makes no sense that Emma would know that Hook was lying, but didn't suspect anything of Cora in 2x03.

Other things I didn't like: Charming hitting Whale in the beginning of the episode was lame. Yes, Whale's a whore who had a one night stand with Mary Margaret, but presumably David slept with Katherine on multiple occasions. You did see Snow racing off to find Abigail to return the smackdown Kathryn gave her while they were cursed. And Regina's explanation over who came over in the curse and who didn't. It seems too simplistic of an explanation when someone like Smee, who has no apparent connection to Regina, came over.

What I did love from this episode? That Rumple sent Jefferson looking for some "slippers" that could take him to a nonmagical realm. That's a clear shout out to the silver/ruby slippers from the Wizard of Oz.

#13

toddringersdry

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:08 PM

Sooooo, science pwns magic?

Thanks, show.

#14

scarlett45

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

What was Regina's explanation regarding whom the curse took? I missed that part.

#15

Devon Rose

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

I'm not into Regina or her redemptive path, so this episode did very little for me. I don't feel sorry for Regina at all that she lost her love this time - not after how many she has killed and how many she made suffer. I do wonder about the person the heart actually belonged to.

So, Regina was already married - timeline issues need to be set straight for me.


THIS! I don't understand this timeline at all. Last season right after Daniel's death she was already indifferent to Snow and wishing her dead. This season, she apparently didn't turn evil until after she was already married to Snow's father, it makes no sense for me.

I am glad that Emma and Snow are at least on the sample page regarding Hook.

#16

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:11 PM

Are Charming and Regina becoming BFFs?

I am a little disappointed about Frankenstein. I am confused, isn't he from "our" world? Daniel coming back to save Regina from being strangled.. ugh. Regina still gets to me. Not that I am forgiving her but characters that are one note are boring.

Like Emma getting some brains but am a little concerned Hook will be her love interest.

#17

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:13 PM

Seeing how Jefferson contributed with Regina becoming the Evil Queen, I'm not as sympathetic with what she did to him by leaving him in Wonderland.

#18

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:13 PM

Iím not keen on Whale being Frankenstein, but it wasnít as bad as I was expecting, and I thought David Anders did a good job acting the part.

Regina seems to be getting a huge redemption arc, and while I like her evil self, I have a feeling she is going to need to work on the side of good if/when Cora arrives, if only for the sake of Henry. She did use magic tonight, but if there was ever a case where it was justified that was surely it.

Interesting that Jefferson was working with Rumpel and betrayed the Queen. Seems like he had what was coming to him in Wonderland.

#19

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:16 PM

I think the most unintentionally hilarious part of this episode was during a scene in FairyNow, when someone calls everyone's attention to the noises in the distance and they all turn to look, and at that very moment, ABC decided to flash one of those annoying promo thingys for "Last Man Standing," so it looked like they were all looking at Tim Allen. Hee.

#20

Dani-Ellie

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:17 PM

I'm wondering if they're going to conflate more things and have Whale be the Wizard of Oz on top of Frankenstein. There was the calling him a wizard, for one, then the "we'll be off to see him" for another, and I was getting a very "Great and Powerful" vibe from the end scene with Rumple, Jefferson, and the Doc.

The sheer amount of glowing hearts in Cora's vault was chilling.

Oh, Regina. I understand that you don't know Dean Winchester, but he had a point when he said that what's dead should stay dead.

#21

toddringersdry

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:19 PM

Jimmy: Itís been tough without using magic?
Regina: Yes, itís been two days now..

Ah, ha, that line was gold, so to speak. But it was one of the few bright spots in the writing. Dialog felt clunky and top-hitting.

I love Lana Parilla and think she's marvelous as Regina, but her scenes this episode were painfully cheesy.

And oh God, the return of Emma's super power. While I was pleased that Emma was suspicious of Hook when he was found, I wish they would have just stick with the perfectly reasonable logic she offered Mulan.


Absolute tripe. Would have worked infinitely better if they just showed Emma demanding a more reasonable excuse, having her say she has an 'ability', which we all know is not foolproof was lame x ten.
My biggest beef with it: I HATE that they subverted Reginaís new found love for Henry. I had no problem with Daniel coming back in some tragic moment, or Regina being moved by him, yada yada yada. But the second Henryís life was put in danger, she doesnít go mama-smash on his ass? Hell no. If they wanted to do a love story/redemption arc, it should be surround Henry, not Daniel.

#22

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:20 PM

I don't think Dr. Whale/Frankenstein is from 'our world', that would obviously contradict what Rumple told Jefferson when he said Jefferson could not get to a land without magic with his hat. So wherever Whale/Frankenstein is from there is some sort of magic.

#23

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:21 PM

Regina seems to be getting a huge redemption arc

I just can't buy her redemption, and that being the case, I am incredibly bored by this arc. I also have a huge issue with calling her redeemed when it's all about getting what she wants - Henry's love and trust. She still has expressed absolutely no remorse for hurting everyone else. That doesn't spell redemption to me. Frankly, she looks like a lot like Jefferson to me right now - a horrible person who stopped doing horrible thing because of the risk of losing/harming his/her child. No actual moral change - just a different priority at the moment. Those aren't redeemed characters to me - they aren't doing bad things only because it costs them too much. They don't care about all the other people in the world, they only care about themselves and their specials.

Edited by Tzigone, Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:21 PM.


#24

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:23 PM

I'm wondering if they're going to conflate more things and have Whale be the Wizard of Oz on top of Frankenstein. There was the calling him a wizard, for one, then the "we'll be off to see him" for another, and I was getting a very "Great and Powerful" vibe from the end scene with Rumple, Jefferson, and the Doc.


Well if you think about it, he is a wizard. A wizard of science. Here this guy is, in the land of magic, where the laws of physics is pretty much unheard of and he can pretty much do anything, with a few particles and whatever he did to bring the body to life. I can see why they would call him a wizard considering the people in fairytale land never heard of science and would label it as powerful magic.

#25

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:24 PM

I wasn't sure about the idea of frankenstein but damn if I didnt' enjoy the hell out of the actor's turn as frankenstein. I thought Daniels comeback was a little anticlimatic. Regina just whimpered most of the episode, but I enjoyed her sessions with Jiminy Cricket.

Horray for the return of Emma and Snow. I still miss having them all in storybrooke. Especially miss Emma and Henry together.

Also, Emma's dad is starting to dress like her, with the leather jacket of sheriffing (I realize he wore leather before but it was fairy tale prince leather. This is different.

#26

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:27 PM

This was an odd way for things to go. The real time Storybrooke plot was surprisingly light, with Daniel being brought back and dispatched so quickly. That Dr. Whale would resurrect him without securing a deal first was foolish, but I was mildly amused that his arm was ripped off and he had to ask Mr. Gold to fix it.

The flashbacks were interesting. I suspected Rumpel was playing Regina, but that Jefferson was directly involved surprised me. I can see the more adventurous Jefferson and Rumpel working together toward all kinds of mischief, and I would enjoy seeing more in the future. I smiled when Rumpel thanked Victor for his help in making Rumpelís monster, and wished him luck on his. ďIím not making a monster.Ē ďSure you arenít.Ē

Victor/Dr. Whale worked in better than I expected him too, but it is still an odd fit into this mytharc. The science is more powerful than magic bit was a little overused, but the switch to black and white at the end was a nice touch. The younger Regina seemed especially gullible to me, both toward Rumple and toward Victor. And her turnaround to taking hearts Ė and wearing evil queen outfits Ė was incredibly sudden.

For the Fairy Tale Land side of things, Iím glad to see that the heroines quickly suspected Hook, and refused to take his evasions, and that even though they are following him, they remain skeptical of his motives. I see Emmaís power is working again; I hope now that it has re-emerged it is more consistent.

#27

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:28 PM

Well if you think about it, he is a wizard. A wizard of science.


Oh, I completely agree. I was just trying to work out whether those were actual clues or just things the writers threw to throw us off, haha.

#28

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:30 PM

Ugh, the 'magic as addiction' plot sucked on Buffy and sucks here. I prefer Regina owning her evil. Sigh.

I think Jefferson is the Wizard of Oz as well as the Hatter. Everybody has to wear two hats, so to speak.

Still find Hook hot but boring.

#29

xqueenfrostine

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:34 PM

What was Regina's explanation regarding whom the curse took? I missed that part.


In Dr. Hopper's office, Regina told Archie that the curse only brought over people she wanted it to. When Archie mentioned that what Whale had said to Regina about the curse only bringing over the living couldn't have been true because Henry Sr.'s body had been brought over, Regina said "I don't care about Whale and his brother, I brought over who I wanted."

I just can't buy her redemption, and that being the case, I am incredibly bored by this arc. I also have a huge issue with calling her redeemed when it's all about getting what she wants - Henry's love and trust.


I agree, though honestly I might like it a little better is if wasn't so rushed and badly written. I am actually the type of person who believes that redemption is possible for anyone at all, regardless of what they've done, but the more harm that person (or character) has done, the longer it has to take. And not necessarily because it'll take people longer to forgive, but because it takes a long time for such ingrained bad behavior to really change. No one goes from heroin addict, serial cheater, or child abuser to model citizen in months. It takes years to deal with the personality flaws and attitudes that lead to that behavior. Regina's being fast tracked in a ridiculous manner, and nothing about her attitide in Archie's office made it seem like she was ready to begin on that kind of road.

The science is more powerful than magic bit was a little overused, but the switch to black and white at the end was a nice touch.


I think I actually hated that the worst about the episode. It made the Dr. Frankenstein angle feel all the more shoehorned, like it was thrown in for the express purpose of being able to have a monster movie themed episode for Halloween and not because Frankenstein made sense with the overall plot of the series.

Edited by xqueenfrostine, Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:41 PM.


#30

scarlett45

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 8:35 PM

Thank you xqueenfrostine.