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4-5: "Waiting for the Knock" 2012.10.28


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#61

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 10:23 AM

I loved Nathan Lane in this episode! He had such a wonderful time finding all the discrepancies in the accounts and nailing Bishop's employee on them!

As a former accounting professor, I loved his admonition to "read the footnotes," which are essential to understanding finanancial statements. But then it sounded like the big discrepancy he found (revenues up and profits flat without an increase in cost of goods sold) is something that would be obvious without looking at the footnotes.

As an aside, of COURSE Peter took Alicia to an NBA championship game on their second date. Poor Will. The guy just never had a chance!

I was wondering if I heard this correctly. Alicia said she went to a game during the Bulls' 2nd championship run, which occurred in the spring of 1992, or 20 years ago. I think she also said Peter took her to a game for their first date, but it wasn't clear whether she meant the first date and that championship game were one and the same. If they were, then their first date was likely in Chicago -- it certainly wasn't in DC, where Alicia and Will attended Georgetown. How does this timeline fit Will's comment, when he and Alicia were reminiscing about meeting at Georgetown, that they'd always had "bad timing"?

#62

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 12:08 PM

Quote

I was surprised at Alicia's reaction when Maddie said she still wanted to be friends. I expected her to say something like, "Oh really. You don't believe me, you think I'm lying to you, I'm dishonest. Why do you want to be friends with me? For that matter, why should I want to be friends with you?"



I really liked how this scene played because it was so true to Alicia's character. I loved her dry and curt "Sure" to Maddie as she hung up. In Alicia speak that means hell no.

#63

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 12:51 PM

Guess I am not paying close enough attention because I don't understand: why Alicia would consider Maddie a "friend," when all we have seen in their one to one exchanges is Maddie questioning her about Peter; why we are supposed to overlook that Bishop killed his wife (which is why he has to arrange with an estranged sister to be the guardian of his son) and empathize with his admirable attempts at fatherhood?; why we are supposed to accept that Eli's valued campaign experience has evaporated to the point he can't handle Jackie, he lets the campaign become dependent on one contributor and freaks out in dealing with the media --he's basically functioning on the level of an intern; and why is it believable that Kalinda would comport herself perfectly in the meeting with Carey, Nick and biz partner and 10 minutes later be having a pushing contest with Nick in a glass-walled office?

One or two of these collapses of character would be okay as shortcuts to upcoming action but all at once, they seem really really clumsy. But,I only watched once and am hoping I missed some connective tissue. Also I admit, it did take me two scenes to realize Jackie was imagining the bugs since I thought it was credible the bugs might really be there at the senior center!

#64

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 2:41 PM

I didn't feel like I was bring asked to empathise with Bishop. That he is a horrible human being doesn't mean he can't love his child. I thought the fact that he had to have the agreement brought home the fact killing his son's mother was exactly as terrible as it was, and the kid was now temporarily (and possibly permanently) parentless.

As for Kalinda, that was 100% character consistent. She has lost control similarly when being theatened by Blake, most notably when he strayed anywhere near her relationship with Alicia. Which was exactly what happened here, Nick thought she was on the phone with Lana, and when she corrected him that it was work-related, he told her "that wasn't work". Cue shoving since Alicia was the one on the phone. Nick ought to know her 'sweet voice' and I'm sure will be figuring out where she's vulnerable. Bill also knows that Kalinda hits people when they mess with her 'lawyer'.

I was wondering if I heard this correctly. Alicia said she went to a game during the Bulls' 2nd championship run, which occurred in the spring of 1992, or 20 years ago. I think she also said Peter took her to a game for their first date, but it wasn't clear whether she meant the first date and that championship game were one and the same. If they were, then their first date was likely in Chicago -- it certainly wasn't in DC, where Alicia and Will attended Georgetown. How does this timeline fit Will's comment, when he and Alicia were reminiscing about meeting at Georgetown, that they'd always had "bad timing"?


I always took the 'bad timing' as being that whenever one of them was free, the other was in a relationship. I doubt it was solely related to Alicia being with Peter. I'd like to think he wasn't the only guy she'd been with when she got married, and I'm sure Will (man whore) had plenty of college hookups.

#65

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 5:35 PM

That he is a horrible human being doesn't mean he can't love his child.


I have a hard time imagining that he loves his child all that much, when he deliberately and permanently deprived his own little boy of his mother. That's beyond horrible. It's heinous, since one day the child will find out and be devastated all over again. Bishop needs to get his ass whacked in the slammer.

#66

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 5:54 PM

I think Alicia's scenes with the child show how good a mother she is a lot more than the Florrick kids and her scenes with them have done so far. And you really could see the moment when Alicia decide to warn Bishop.

I was surprised at Alicia's reaction when Maddie said she still wanted to be friends. I expected her to say something like, "Oh really. You don't believe me, you think I'm lying to you, I'm dishonest. Why do you want to be friends with me? For that matter, why should I want to be friends with you?"

I thought how Alicia hung up on Maddie mid sentence, and didn't even bother hanging up showed this quite eloquently. Maddie is really the one pushing for this, Alicia can take it or leave it - the friendship - at this point.

And I kept getting the feeling that Maddie is basically going to prep Alicia to run, but I guess it makes more sense if Maddie decides to run herself.

#67

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 7:01 PM

One thing that bothered me was that I felt the Kings had AP oversell Kalinda's "sweet voice" and grinning while on the phone with Alica. I would have enjoyed it if it was subtle.

I have a hard time imagining that he loves his child all that much, when he deliberately and permanently deprived his own little boy of his mother. That's beyond horrible. It's heinous, since one day the child will find out and be devastated all over again. Bishop needs to get his ass whacked in the slammer.


There is no doubt that Bishop's a monster and has done terrible things, one of them being depriving his son of his mother. But, I don't think that means he has not been a great father to his kid. Clearly, his son loves him which must mean he has been doing something right. Sometimes people are misguided and hurt the people they love, but that doesn't mean Bishop doesn't love his kid. Will the revelation of his mother being killed by his father hurt the boy, yes, but it seems as if Bishop did try to do right by his son. I'm not saying that this is all that matters or that it erases his sins, but I also don't think that because he does bad things that it automatically means he's a bad father.

Guess I am not paying close enough attention because I don't understand: why Alicia would consider Maddie a "friend," when all we have seen in their one to one exchanges is Maddie questioning her about Peter; why we are supposed to overlook that Bishop killed his wife (which is why he has to arrange with an estranged sister to be the guardian of his son) and empathize with his admirable attempts at fatherhood?; why we are supposed to accept that Eli's valued campaign experience has evaporated to the point he can't handle Jackie, he lets the campaign become dependent on one contributor and freaks out in dealing with the media --he's basically functioning on the level of an intern; and why is it believable that Kalinda would comport herself perfectly in the meeting with Carey, Nick and biz partner and 10 minutes later be having a pushing contest with Nick in a glass-walled office?


Well, Maddie only funded Peter because of Alicia. I can't recall what their first conversation was about when they were having drinks, but there second was not originally about Peter until Alicia brought him up. So, Maddie does not always bring him up in conversation. Maddie was/is trying to be her friend, but Peter's campaign and his scandal keeps coming up or interfering in some way.

We are not supposed to overlook Bishop's past or admire his attempts at fatherhood, but see his human side instead. It's rare for someone to be completely good or evil. We have real life examples of gangsters, mobsters, etc who are heartless, but when it comes to their family, they show humanistic characteristics. We can see that they care for something. So, even if we don't feel bad for him, we are shown that Bishop does care about someone besides himself and that is his son.

Eli's problem is that Peter wants Jackie to be involved in the way that she wants, but her being involved in such a way hurts the campaign. Jackie is overbearing and does what she wants. The reason Eli is freaking out is because of Peter's previous scandal, which means that the public is more likely to believe the false story about an affair. Peter won't let Eli do what he needs to do for damage control. He's freaking out about Maddie because she's the women's vote and very influential. If Maddie leaves, those who support her will leave as well.

Well, those are two different situations--in the office and outside of the office. In the office, it was mostly about business and Nick wouldn't out himself as being Kalinda's husband, but outside of the office, he was pushing her buttons.

Thanks to whoever mentioned where that black guy is from--Wee Bey (The Wire). I knew I recognized him, but I couldn't place his face.

#68

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 7:27 PM

One thing that bothered me was that I felt the Kings had AP oversell Kalinda's "sweet voice" and grinning while on the phone with Alica. I would have enjoyed it if it was subtle.

I think if it had been at normal Kalinda levels of subtle it wouldn't really have been obvious for viewers, though. Maybe longtime viewers, but a more casual or new viewer wouldn't really have noticed.

#69

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 10:37 PM

It's occurred to me that Kalinda froze out Lana, not because Lana is investigating her, or that she's trying to protect Lana from Nick, but because the picture reveals Lana is investigating Peter Florrick and by definition, this extends to Alicia. A big no-no in Kalinda's book. She will always protect Alicia first.

I also think that Nick is going to figure out that Alicia is super important to Kalinda and this will escalate into his threatening Alicia bodily at some point, which might result in some drastic action on Kalinda's part to protect her - possibly with lethal consequences. Then Alicia will have to protect Kalinda in court!

#70

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 11:36 PM

spanishrake, your post is like Christmas! Something along those lines would be lovely...

Sometimes I read something I just can't get behind at all. Like in this recap:

We wish Cary wasn’t wearing that unfortunate hoodie sweater, but we’ll forgive him because of how wonderful he was with Hayden.

What the hell? Cary was lust-inducing (like more than usual) in this outfit. No wonder poor Clarke tipped over from appreciative to smitten.

#71

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 5:17 AM

Jacob always says it better.

It's like that old thing of, Could God make a burrito so hot that God could not then eat said burrito? If the burrito looked like Cary Agos in a $300 hoodie and yoga pants, maybe. Maybe it would be that hot.


I really don't care about Lana and if Kalinda froze her out. But I want to know why she didn't tell anything to Cary (since he was also involved with Alicia in Nick's case) if she really wanted to keep Nick away from L&G.
And I'd really like to know what the hell she meant when she said to Alicia that "it's complicated" (with Cary). It has been always complicated between those two but maybe writers should finally further and write something more specific about that matter.

Also, if the conclusion of this Nick storyline will be, once again, "Cary is one of Kalinda's best buddies (He's a great guy) and he'll help her. But everything he'll do for her will go unnoticed because she's too busy with Alicia. And things will stay complicated" please, spare me. They've spent 3 years of Cary's storyline (and Czuchry's screentime) around Kalinda. Fans deserve something better. Something like a development.
And If the can't or they don't want to do it, while James Bond/Kalinda can't have a girlfriend but she's busy with 2 love(?) interests (maybe 3)for season, could they pair up Cary with some awesome new recurring character (I love Nathan Lane's character but I'm 100% sure Cary is completely straight so I won't go there) a least? Thanks.

Edited by Cassiopea76, Oct 31, 2012 @ 5:21 AM.


#72

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 5:37 AM

could they pair up Cary with some awesome new recurring character (I love Nathan Lane's character but I'm 100% sure Cary is completely straight so I won't go there) a least?


I'll admit that I tend to be sensitive to noticing these things, and I agree, there's no textual evidence that Cary is anything but straight. However, his two scenes with Blake (outside the prison was it? and then searching Blake's place) were absolutely crackling HoYay!tastic. If the TGW fandom had any slash writers in it, I'm sure there would have been plenty to expand on there... Blake had chemistry, just not with Kalinda.

Maybe that will the point of his relationship with Kalinda, she'll teach him not to pigeonhole himself. A different take on "lots of people weren't anything until they met Kalinda." Well, it won't be, but I'd love it if it was!

I do take your point, and I'm sure it is frustrating to fans of Czuchry / Cary that so much of his storyline has been in orbit of Kalinda's. Personally I love them onscreen together, so I'm happy for their unequal-feelings dysfunction to continue.

#73

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 10:11 AM

My favorite scene in the episode was Eli writing down the blogger's phone number. Because he couldn't possibly, you know, have just added it to his BlackBerry. AC does his best scenery-chewing in short-burst scenes like that where he's not talking too much or too long.

On a sort-of-related note, even as a long-standing JC fan, I haven't objected to the limited use of Will lately. I still wish the show had had the courage to knock him all the way out of the office during the "suspension," or to have Alicia be more shocked and disillusioned by the suspension's cause. I'd rather have one or two compelling scenes, like Will's brief phone conversations with Eli and the blogger, than a particular character showcased for the sake of being showcased, as in "viewers love Kalinda, so let's just try to find some way to get her on screen more." And with Eli in particular, even as a big fan of AC, I think a little goes a long way.

#74

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 1:31 PM

I have to chime in on the Nathan Lane love this episode. I am still not understanding Nick's obession with Kalinda, ornthe point of the whole thing, unless through it the Kalinda/Peter affair somehow comes out - an actual infidelitynthat CAN be substantiated.

I have to say I loved the Wire love.. Between seeing JD "Bodie" Williams and Hassan "Wee Bey" Johnson, my night was made.

Edited by alesquire, Oct 31, 2012 @ 1:32 PM.


#75

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

I think if it had been at normal Kalinda levels of subtle it wouldn't really have been obvious for viewers, though. Maybe longtime viewers, but a more casual or new viewer wouldn't really have noticed.


I'm not opposed to smiling and a slight hitch in her voice, but I just thought it was overdone. I know a series always has to be mindful of new or casual viewers, but I think if something is well-written or there is good acting, there isn't a need to oversell. That's what I liked about the Wire, which was probably why they weren't a ratings powerhouse. I never noticed it, but I read somewhere that there was never any "previously" on or finding an indirect way to explain certain things to the fans. When you watched long enough, you eventually caught on. Not saying the TGW should do this, but just another perspective.

#76

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 9:47 PM

I actually thought Kalinda's smiling and sweet voice was completely consistent with previous occasions (post breakup) when she's smiled or reacted to Alicia being on her side. Examples include walking away from Diane's office after Alicia's agreed to work with her in "What Went Wrong" and walking behind Alicia after the IRS in "Blue Ribbon Panel". And she did used to have a sweet voice back when Kalicia used to have happy times with booze pre-breakup. Kalinda was relaxed, silly and far sweeter back then with Alicia than she's been with anyone else. So I don't consider the sweet voice to be new or overdone personally. But I welcome all such anvils...

#77

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 4:54 AM

I thought a hitch in her voice would make it really very obvious as opposed to what they did.

#78

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 11:12 AM

I like my women stoic and assertive. With a sprinkle of vulnerability. I'm glad Kalinda is becoming more and more emotive. Love her grinning this seems to be induced mostly by Alicia. Try watching TGW back to back with Homeland don't like to compare my leading women but I couln't help notice the contrast. Amazing. Alicia would never lose it in front of her colleagues.

#79

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 2:17 PM

Alicia would never lose it in front of her colleagues


Totally agreed. I think that is what Alicia can be so dangerous when in badass mode. She can appear to be a pushover or a doormat and can really get you when you aren't expecting it. Alicia has a very quiet strength that often jumps out and can take people by surprise. I hope that badass Alicia appears and that is how she takes down Maddie who probably thinks she is really weak since she stood by Peter.

Edited by ME Again, Nov 1, 2012 @ 2:19 PM.


#80

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 3:12 PM

I have to say I didn't feel Panjabi overplayed Kalinda talking to Alicia. In fact, I had to re-watch that scene twice: First, to see what Hubby was talking about and second, in order to try to understand the criticism expressed here. To me, Kalinda showed her regular level of Alicia-emotion and, if anything, she was less expansive than in scenes from days gone by.

I did, however, think the shove was a bit much.

Edited by DEM, Nov 1, 2012 @ 3:33 PM.


#81

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 9:32 PM

I think if it had been at normal Kalinda levels of subtle it wouldn't really have been obvious for viewers, though. Maybe longtime viewers, but a more casual or new viewer wouldn't really have noticed.


This. I wouldn't have even noticed her "sweet voice" if Nick hadn't mentioned it. I found it very subtle. Subtler than that and Nick's line wouldn't have made sense. And I'm an often viewer.

#82

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Posted Nov 2, 2012 @ 7:22 AM

I did, however, think the shove was a bit much.


To me the shove was such a specific callback to the other times Kalinda has lost control of herself when her relationship with Alicia is threatened (destroying Blake's car, hitting him with the bat) I found it perfectly consistent.

#83

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Posted Nov 2, 2012 @ 9:41 AM

I actually thought Kalinda's smiling and sweet voice was completely consistent with previous occasions (post breakup) when she's smiled or reacted to Alicia being on her side.



Definitely--and she's even done it in even more mundane circumstances. I remember in "Long Way Home" (the episode right before "Gloves Come Off," when Kalinda made her big beer move), Alicia is frantically trying to call Peter, having just learned that her apartment is going condo. Kalinda tries to catch her eye and says just one thing: "Multitasking?" The amount of sweetness and affection that Kalinda managed to put into that one boring word was just amazing.

To me the shove was such a specific callback to the other times Kalinda has lost control of herself when her relationship with Alicia is threatened (destroying Blake's car, hitting him with the bat) I found it perfectly consistent.

I absolutely agree--I think it's the exact thing that Kalinda always does when something is potentially threatening Alicia, or potentially threatening her relationship with Alicia. Blake's "you have a tell" was one of the truest things that anyone has ever said on the show.

Edited by crashdown, Nov 2, 2012 @ 9:50 AM.


#84

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Posted Feb 21, 2013 @ 8:01 PM

Well I guess it goes to show that even murderous Drug Lords love their children (I'd actually forgotten that he'd murdered the mother), which was nicely presented. I don't think Lemond killed the informant, since it didn't seem like he knew who it was (OK, maybe he's a good enough actor to suggest otherwise, but it seems he wouldn't bother to act like that in front of his own lawyers). I also thought it was a bit off that when Diane needed to get somebody arrested the three women all looked at Cary (I guess being a confirmed feminist doesn't mean you actually get to take the same risks as the men-folk).

Crashdown As to whether or not Kalinda was protecting Lana by freezing her out—no, I don't think she was. I think that Kalinda genuinely believes that Lana was using her, and that she was hurt by it

Rockville Kalinda, I believe, deliberately pulled Agent Sexy into Nick's sights to have backup for when Nick harmed or threatened to really harm her (Kalinda).

I initially suspected that Kalinda was using Agent Sexy to take care of Nick to avoid having to get involved in any legal complications to get rid of Nick, but I even I don't think Kalinda is that much of a cold hearted bitch. I saw it as realising that she'd endangered her and attempting to fix that (though I could be wrong).

I imagine that Abby is going to run against Peter for the Governorship. Nice to see Eli being competent in eliminating the rival candidates, though, even if he couldn't kill the story about Peter.