45 replies to this topic

[blackwing]

I didn't see a thread for this show. It's a miniseries based on the Ken Follett book of the same name and a sequel of sorts to the blockbuster novel "The Pillars of the Earth", which was adapted into a miniseries on Starz a few years ago. The characters are completely new, it's 150 years after the events of Pillars so some of them are descended from characters that were in Pillars.

It's set in England in the 1300s and against the backdrop of the Hundred Year's War and the Plague.

The show is airing on Reelz Channel, which I was pleasantly surprised to find I had, and starts tomorrow, Wednesday October 17. Here is a link to the official website. Not sure why Starz didn't want to pick it up, I had thought Pillars was very successful for them.

Here is the Wikipediaentry on the novel if you want more background.

"The Pillars of the Earth" is probably my favorite book of all time, and I greatly enjoyed that miniseries. Hoping that WWE is just as spectacular.

[blackwing]

Did anyone else watch it last night? I really enjoyed it, although I thought there were far too many characters who looked too similar. I was constantly confusing the older men - one was Caris' father who had his legs broken, one was Petranilla's brother who I think was the Prior, one was Merthin's father who was hanged, one was Peter Firth who hanged Merthin's father and I think there were at least one or two others.

I also had issues telling apart some of the younger dark haired men. I think one was Gwenda's brother, one was the guy in the stocks, one was the King, and one was Petranilla's son the monk. I can easily recognize Ralph (who looks very very much like Jake Gyllenhaal to me) and Merthin.

I thought the storyline was a little meandering... for instance, Gwenda's story didn't seem to interact with any of the other characters and as such seemed a little random. There are some major differences from the book. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember the four children (Merthin, Ralph, Gwenda and Caris) who all grew up together and were playing in the woods when they see Thomas of Langley kill his pursuers. All of them run away except for Merthin, who helps Thomas bury that letter. Then it's 10 years later. Here in the TV adaptation, they are already 20 somethings, and the letter gets discovered right away? What the letter said was a central mystery of the book and revealed only at the end.

Edited by blackwing, Oct 18, 2012 @ 10:59 AM.

[MontrealMom]

In Canada, we are ahead of the game. Episode 7 just aired on Tuesday. I haven't seen it yet, but I've seen the other 6.

So far, IMO, it's very reminiscent of the Pillars of the Earth miniseries. They have definitely changed some things from the books, but the main gist of the story is still there.

I am enjoying it so far.

[catray]

I watched the first two episodes last night and enjoyed it. It's been awhile since I've read the book, so I had to read the Wiki synopsis just to remind myself who everyone was! Obviously, the mini-series isn't following everything in the book by the letter, but they seem to have done a decent job so far on sticking to the main storyline. The only thing that seems unclear to me right now is Gwenda's storyline, but that should sort itself out as the series moves along.

The cut-aways to Edward III and Isabella make me want a mini-series about that period in English history (Tudors who?).

So far I think I'm most impressed with Cynthia Nixon as Petranilla. The rest of the cast seems just fine in their roles, though no one else really stands out as yet (except maybe Godwyn, who is deliciously creepy). Caris and Merthin are okay, but a little bland-- Caris definitely shines more than poor Merthin does at this point, though. Tom Weston-Jones is easy on the eyes, but all Merthin does is stare longingly at Caris and I kind of want to shake him. To be honest, though... aside from Merthin and Caris, I'm not always 100% sure who the other younger men and women are!

Poor Indira Varma-- does anyone she play actually survive to the end of a series?

ETA:

I thought the storyline was a little meandering... for instance, Gwenda's story didn't seem to interact with any of the other characters and as such seemed a little random. There are some major differences from the book. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember the four children (Merthin, Ralph, Gwenda and Caris) who all grew up together and were playing in the woods when they see Thomas of Langley kill his pursuers. All of them run away except for Merthin, who helps Thomas bury that letter. Then it's 10 years later. Here in the TV adaptation, they are already 20 somethings, and the letter gets discovered right away? What the letter said was a central mystery of the book and revealed only at the end.

I definitely agree with this. Gwenda's role seems the least clear and it seems like she doesn't know the other three (Merthin, Ralph and Caris).

We saw Thomas bury something in the priory yard when he first arrives (I assume it's the letter)-- but I don't think anyone else knows where it is at this point. I'm guessing that will come in to play in future episodes, where it will somehow be made known to Merthin and then revealed at the end like in the book.

Edited by catray, Oct 18, 2012 @ 11:49 AM.

[blackwing]

I agree that it seems like Gwenda doesn't know the other three, which is odd, because in the book, her life is very much intertwined with the others. I believe she stole money from Merthin and Ralph's father, and this results in the family's disgraced status. I didn't think the father was the Earl of Shiring in the book. She is best friends with Caris.

I realize that when there are book to TV adaptations that things will inevitably get changed, but some of the changes seem fairly significant. Especially the letter and the fact that Gwenda grew up with the others. Nonetheless, it's been so long since I read the book I probably won't even notice some of the changes. I definitely do not recall Queen Isabella and King Edward III being in the book so much though... I think they are just mentioned in passing but we never actually see them?

I enjoyed Ralph's Braveheart "Do it for England" speech, although from what I remembered the book Ralph seemed a lot more pure evil and manipulative. So far, this TV Ralph seems like a good man who we should feel sympathy for because he keeps getting rebuffed by the girl with the huge mass of frizzy blonde hair.

If I recall correctly, Caris is descended from Tom Builder, the character played by Rufus Sewell in the Pillars miniseries. Merthin and Ralph are descended from Jack and Aliena. Many times last night I thought how the actress and character of Caris reminded me so much of Hayley Atwell's Aliena, even though they are not supposed to be related.

We saw Thomas bury something in the priory yard when he first arrives (I assume it's the letter)-- but I don't think anyone else knows where it is at this point. I'm guessing that will come in to play in future episodes, where it will somehow be made known to Merthin and then revealed at the end like in the book.

Ahh, thanks. I saw him burying something in the yard and assumed it was the letter. But then I turned away a little and must have missed something, because for some reason I thought someone dug it up, and then Queen Isabella tried burning a letter but the letter was saved from the fire by the King, who confronted his mother about it. I thought it was the same letter, but I guess not.

I enjoyed seeing Indira Varma, albeit too briefly.

[scarlett45]

Hi. I haven't read the book but I mean to, I am looking forward to discussing the mini series with you all.

[attica finch]

Gosh, I really cannot stand all that long, unbound hair on the women. I don't expect the poorer women to avail themselves of the fancy hairdressing of the court, but there's no freaking way working women (even-- maybe especially -- working in the home) wouldn't have their hair tied up (not just tied back, at least once past puberty) or tucked under a cap. Catch one of those tresses in a kitchen fire, in a wagon axle or wheel spoke? Give any miscreant fleece-fair attendee something to grab as you walk by trying to mind your own beeswax? Nope. Not even remotely believable.

That complaint lodged (and I know I'm on the losing side of it, however right I am, heh), I'm enjoying the show. Nixon is great with her scenery chewing, Chaplin is looking very nice even one-armed, and the collapse of the bridge was fun to watch. And count me in on the poor-Indira-Varma train. I'll miss her.

[bulldawgtownie]

To be honest I was a bit underwhelmed. I really liked Pillars of the Earth and was expecting more, especially from their main villian Queen Isabella. Still it's early so I'll give it a chance and btw I blame Caris for the death of her mother, she should have known the "doctor" from the priory was a know-nothing hack and to go get Indira Varma's character.

Edited by bulldawgtownie, Oct 19, 2012 @ 2:16 PM.

[Scorpiosrule]

I'm enjoying this. I love period pieces, and I'm glad I haven't read the book, so it saves me from nitpicking.

It seemed to me that Sir Thoma buried the knife he used to kill Edward II at the Priory, and not a letter. While he was doing it, he flashed back to the night Edward II died. And when we came back, it looked like a dagger/knife wrapped in some cloth.

[bulldawgtownie]

That makes sense. He told Queen Isabella if he died the truth would come out, so there must be sometime of proof out there. That knife must have some sort of special royal insignia on it otherwise it would be just a knife with blood on it and wouldn't prove a thing.

[Haleth]

I enjoyed the first episode last night. It's so similar to PotE with its pure, plucky heroes (especially Caris) and cartoonish villains, but it's fun and frivolous like a bowl full of candycorn. I'd read the book a little over a year ago and yes, there seems to be more time spent with Isabella and Edward than in the book, but that was the case with PotE movie vs book too. And the lack of connection of Gwenda to the rest of the cast was odd, but I guess that will come about in time. I'm not sure about the casting. Don't the lead characters seem a little old for their roles?

I'm just finishing up watching Tom Weston-Jones in Copper. It's so funny seeing him go from such an intense character as Kevin Corcoran to meek, mild mannered Merthin.

[bulldawgtownie]

I'm just finishing up watching Tom Weston-Jones in Copper. It's so funny seeing him go from such an intense character as Kevin Corcoran to meek, mild mannered Merthin

For some reason he looks a lot younger in this series. Maybe because his hair isn't as long, I don't know.

[Shermie]

We've seen up to episode 7 in Canada, and I think there are 8 in total? I never read the books or saw The Pillars of the Earth, so I went into this blind. Probably just as well. I did read in advance that book purists would not be happy because it doesn't follow the book at all.

It does occur to me that many years have passed since the series start but they haven't put much effort into aging the actors. I guess all that clean living keeps them young. :)

Agree that it's hard to tell the men apart. It took me a few episodes to get everyone straight, but it helps when they thin the herd. Caris reminds me of a younger Juliana Marguiles.

I get angry watching it just because there was so much injustice and little recourse. You were stuck with your lot because you were female or poor or born to the wrong family or, heaven help you, all three. The stupid "medicines" - putting dung into open wounds? Bleeding someone dry and then being confounded because they're still weak? Gawd.

And then the stupidity about the bridge. Sometimes I think they deserve what they get, but of course, it's never the ones making the bad decisions who suffer from them.

Godwyn and Petrinella are just evil. I can hardly look at Godwyn; he's so smarmy with that stupid hair. At least Petrinella is fun evil, if that makes sense, even if it is all for creepy Godwyn.

[carnifex2005]

Wow. This series was crap but the series finale was even worse. Every silly medieval cliche was thrown out there in the last episode. The drastically slashed budget of World Without End from what was shown in The Pillars of the Earth is totally noticeable. The crappy acting didn't help either. Too bad I wasted 8 hours on this.

[Scorpiosrule]

Wow. I just read the plot of this book in the link posted above.

I've never read the book, but based on Wikipedia, boy, they've only used the barest of bones from the book for this mini-series.

Based on the promos, it looks like this mini-series is just going to be depressing with no happiness for any of the good guys. But, since I've already watched Part one, I'll be watching to the end.

[avaleigh]

I'm hoping this gets better. I really enjoyed Pillars of the Earth so I was excited to see this and maybe my expectations were a little too high because I thought it pretty snooze worthy at times.

Caris is like a more annoying version of Aliena from PotE and Petranilla comes across as a less intimidating, less vicious version of Regan. Godwyn is an asshole like William but with a villian like William I was actively rooting for his downfall, whereas with Godwyn I don't really care what happens to him. At least not yet.

Is there a reason the Starz network passed on this? Did Pillars of the Earth do well? I wonder how WWE ended up being shown here on Reelz.

[blackwing]

Watched the second episode last night and I agree that it doesn't seem to have the majesty and drama of the PotE miniseries. I think I actually despise Godwyn more than I did William. There's something about the fact that he's supposed to be a monk that makes his actions all the more worse. I think I also just don't like his look. The beady eyes and the stupid hair aren't helping him. Plus there's his unhealthy obsession with his cousin Caris. I guess the one thing I should be thankful for that this series is showing on Reelz and not Starz is that at the end when he was lying in bed clutching Caris' dress I was spared a shot of his obviously naked butt.

I also have been wondering why Starz passed. Maybe they felt like they got burned by the abysmal "Camelot" and didn't want to sign up for another medieval England show. Too bad, I wonder what the show could have done with more budget. Is it just me, or is something off about the shooting ratio? I never have this issue with any other show, but on my TV the faces look kind of squashed. I've tried changing the aspect settings on my tv (wide, zoom, wide zoom, etc) but they still look a little off, and like I said, I never have to change the settings for other shows.

Based on the promos, it looks like this mini-series is just going to be depressing with no happiness for any of the good guys. But, since I've already watched Part one, I'll be watching to the end.

Stick it out. The trials and tribulations of the good characters, with the setbacks along the way, and the usually good end results for the main characters at least, tends to be classic Ken Follett.

[Shermie]

Yes, stick it out.

Godwyn is an asshole like William but with a villian like William I was actively rooting for his downfall, whereas with Godwyn I don't really care what happens to him. At least not yet.

Oh, you will. Same with Petrenilla.

[Scorpiosrule]

Stick it out. The trials and tribulations of the good characters, with the setbacks along the way, and the usually good end results for the main characters at least, tends to be classic Ken Follett.

Yes, stick it out.

Oh, that's good to know. I would have stuck it out anyway, but my mindset was to do it as a chore. But after reading this, I'm more optimistic.

I still think, however, that based on the fact that this is being played out over 8 hours more or less, that they could have followed the book more accurately, if that makes sense. I mean, it's not as if they're trying to cram however many pages of the story by Follet into two hours.

[attica finch]

classic Ken Follett.

Seriously. I always find myself reading along, getting all anticipatory for a happy resolution of some plotline or other, when he pulls the rug out, over and over again, until the end.

Did Rupert Evans have a wart/growth during filming, or did the makeup folks add that forehead bump for him?

[catray]

Godwyn is a loathsome little rat. And just gross. I can't wait for his downfall. Of course, Ralph's just as bad. On the other hand, I love how Cynthia Nixon is playing Petranilla. Well, Rupert Evans is doing a great job at playing Godwyn too, but there's absolutely no redeeming him. At least Petranilla hesitated for a minute before killing her brother.

Not gonna lie-- I wanted to shout "booyah!" at the tv when the Mother Prioress pulled out another copy of the will... too bad I wanted to scream again when Godwyn was being such a sneaky bastard.

I still find Caris and Merthin to be a bit bland. She's the plucky girl, he's the slightly naive hero... yawn. I mean, I'm rooting for them because they're the heroes and they're not bad-- they're just not all that interesting either.

I still think, however, that based on the fact that this is being played out over 8 hours more or less, that they could have followed the book more accurately, if that makes sense. I mean, it's not as if they're trying to cram however many pages of the story by Follet into two hours.

Agreed. With all the time they have, it seems silly to change a bunch of things just to make it more dramatic (or something).

[Scorpiosrule]

Godwyn is a loathsome little rat. And just gross. I can't wait for his downfall.

This so, so much. Finally got around to watching it tonight, and man, depressing is putting it mildly.

Though I love Cynthia Nixon, I hate her character, and she's now killed off not only her brother, but Caris' mother too? No way to prove it, naturally.

Poor Merthin. The way he's being played, it seems to me Merthin's a lot more in love with Caris, than Caris is with him.

I'm definitely going to be drinking when I watch the next two episodes, because I just don't expect to be cheering until the end, and I musts needs to numb my brain to get through.

Not gonna lie-- I wanted to shout "booyah!" at the tv when the Mother Prioress pulled out another copy of the will...

I totally did! Then I cursed at my screen when That gross turd killed the judge. Again, so close...and yet, so far. I'm afraid to hope that King Edward III might turn out to be an ally for Caris.

[blackwing]

Though I love Cynthia Nixon, I hate her character, and she's now killed off not only her brother, but Caris' mother too? No way to prove it, naturally.

Yes. She killed both her brothers (Prior Anthony by drowning and Edmund, Caris' father, by poison) and her sister-in-law, Caris' mother, also by poison. I'm going to have to re-read the book. I remember disliking Petranilla but I don't recall her being so downright evil. I thought of her as coldly ambitious, but seeing it played out on screen by Nixon really brings out the evilness.

In the book I remember hating Godwyn and Ralph the most. Godwyn is slimy and treacherous and that comes across all too well in the show. But somehow I don't get the sense that Ralph is a major villain here. I liked him when he was rallying the villagers to contribute what they could for England. And I know he deserved the hanging he was about to get for the rape of Annette, but he just seemed so pathetic up there. I think part of the issue for me is that I still think he very much resembles Jake Gyllenhaal, and for some reason I associate Jake Gyllenhaal with some kind of earnest wholesomeness, so I am finding it harder to disconnect that from the character of Ralph.

[Paratroper]

I don't get the sense that Ralph is a major villain here.

I think about midway through the series I still felt the same way. It didn't last. I actually marathoned the entire series, and Boy HOWDY was that depressing! The good guys are far too saintly, and too frequently tortured by the author, with hardly a moment to breathe, while the bad guys are too cartoonish and have the staying power of cockroaches.

[Shermie]

Godwyn is the medieval equivalent of current-day fundies who pontificate about the evils of gays and birth control and the sacredness of marriage and God's will, blahblahblah, and then are caught having a secret gay affair with their assistant. Times may change, but people don't. A pompous hypocrite is a pompous hypocrite, whatever the era.

[Luckylyn]

So, Ralph has been unwittingly lusting after his own sister because he's the secret child of Petranilla and Roland. That's what I gathered from Petranilla insisting she and Roland have a son together and Ralph's adopted mother suddenly revealing her oldest son was really someone else's. Or is that a red herring and Godwyn is Roland's son?

[blackwing]

Hmmm... I thought that Petranilla meant that Godwyn was Roland's son. But now that you mention it, it does seem odd that on her deathbed, Merthin and Ralph's mother said that her older son was not their blood child. So perhaps that is suggesting that the older son is the lovechild of Petranilla and Roland that Petranilla gave away.

If that is the case, then this was poorly portrayed by the show, since unless I missed something I don't think we know whether Merthin or Ralph is older. It would make more sense for show purposes if Ralph is the older child, because that would mean that Earl Roland almost hanged his own son and doesn't particular treat him very well. However, if this is the case, Ralph wouldn't be lusting after his sister. Philippa isn't Roland's daughter, she is his daughter-in-law. She was married to the son who wasn't the priest, but who died during the bridge collapse. I think.

Watched the third episode (the 6th and 7th hours) and wow, I can't say enough how disappointed I am in this show. I was riveted by Pillars. I find myself bored and sometimes falling asleep with WWE. The battle scenes are poorly done and the King Edward storyline just drags the whole show down. I know it's part of history, but nothing Edward has said or done makes me feel like I want to support him in his claim to the throne of France. I'd rather see what's happening with Merthin.

I hate to keep harping on the differences between the TV adaptation and the book, because I know it can be annoying to people who haven't read the book. However, I can't understand why they felt the need to change things. As I have previously mentioned, the book opened with Merthin, Ralph, Caris and Gwenda witnessing Thomas of Langley being attacked by two knights. They carry the secret of what they saw with them for years and years, and it is something they have in common for their whole lives. Gwenda grew up with Ralph, which makes his mistreatment of her all the more worse.

In the book, Merthin is clearly older than Ralph. We see them as children and Merthin is older, although Ralph is physically bigger. It will be interesting to see exactly who the mother was referring to as the "older son". I honestly don't recall any issues with any secret love child of Petranilla and Roland, or Merthin's mother, or if they are the same child.

Other things that just bug: Gwenda telling Ralph that her older son is his. This was such a dramatic revelation near the end of the book, and he is taken aback when he realizes it. Why the show had Gwenda blurt it out, I have no idea. Book Gwenda is strong, independent, and defiant. Show Gwenda is upset about the land situation and is the only one to stand up for the peasants, but in the end they have her reverting to pathetic begging and pleading to Ralph.

I also don't recall Thomas Langley being gay. If this wasn't in the book, I don't see why they needed to include it in the show. Because every show must have a secret gay couple? I don't recall Caris kissing a nun either.

Gwenda's brother Philemon is another evil character who is also a monk. In the show they seem to call him Holger and he's simply a soldier. I guess the change was to eliminate some characters?

Sister Elizabeth was also a much more treacherous figure in the book. Here she lets Godwyn take the money and opposes Caris, but she comes and goes so quickly it doesn't even seem to matter.

From the preview for the last episode, it looks like Petranilla survives the plague? I think she died in the first round in the book. If she survives, I wonder why they made the change. To give a bigger role to Cynthia Nixon? This would be a very large departure. She barely appeared in this latest episode.

I'm watching on Direct TV, and it doesn't seem like this Reelz channel is in HD? The way it is filmed, everything just looks so dark and washed out. I wonder if I get the Blu Ray and watch again after it's all done if I will like it better.

[Scorpiosrule]

Gah. I haven't watched it yet, but this disappoints me.

unless I missed something I don't think we know whether Merthin or Ralph is older.

I'm pretty sure that the show in the first episode, made it that Ralph was older. So yeah, departure from the book. BIG surprise (sarcasm).

I don't recall Caris kissing a nun either.

The Wiki link you'd provided upthread, mentioned Caris having a relationship with a nun in the book.

I'm watching on Direct TV, and it doesn't seem like this Reelz channel is in HD? The way it is filmed, everything just looks so dark and washed out. I wonder if I get the Blu Ray and watch again after it's all done if I will like it better.

I do have HD, and the color looks fine to me.

I haven't read the book, but I did read the synopsis, and it's clear, even though the series isn't over yet, that they changed A LOT. Like I mentioned upthread, they just took the bare bones from the book, and since they had close to 8 hours, I don't see why they did that, when there was plenty of time to portray it straight from the book.

Eh.

I wanted to see Pillars on demand, to see if Starz still had it up. But they don't. Boo.

I think I'll Netflix it.

[Pooki]

I also don't recall Thomas Langley being gay. If this wasn't in the book, I don't see why they needed to include it in the show. Because every show must have a secret gay couple?

I think it was very heavily hinted in the book that he was gay, particularly when his wife from before he was a monk secretly visits him and they talk about how he's not like other men.

Gwenda's brother Philemon is another evil character who is also a monk. In the show they seem to call him Holger and he's simply a soldier.

I remember in the book Gwenda's brother is called Holger, but changes his name to Philemon when he becomes a monk (presumably because it sounds less peasant-y?).

[Luckylyn]

I thought the blonde Ralph was chasing after was Roland's daughter. She's his daughter in law? Still, even if he isn't her brother, he's horrible, and I'm thrilled she rejected him. I'm just worried he'll retaliate in some horrible way.