156 replies to this topic

[TWoP Lockley]

TV Guide description

Carrire reluctantly returns to Beruit and an operation that might possibly spell the end of Abu Nazir. Back in Washington, Brody is pressed into service by his handler, and his relationship with Jessica deteriorates. Meanwhile, Captain Mike Faber has questions about the shooting of Elizabeth Gaines.

Edited by TWoP Lockley, Oct 8, 2012 @ 12:40 PM.

[AnalogHeart]

And no one can possibly trace the text you sent from the war room, Brody. Jeez. I'm all for suspension of disbelief but he was stupid last week about covering his tracks and this week, too. Is that on purpose?

[Brian C]

Yeah, that really took me out of the episode. Very unbelievable.

Honestly, though, I am currently just scared for Saul's safety. Don't kill Saul!!

[MightyMac63]

That is what I was thinking too..on if anyone, even the CIA, can trace Brody's text to Abu Nazir. Interesting that he used May 1..aka May Day..as the abort code.

And how can a Spec Ops hit team be that close to taking out Nazir in a Hezbollah controlled neighborhood?

Overall, another awesome episode. They cannot kill Saul off.

[skeeter22]

I don't know what I'd do if Saul died. I love his relationship with Carrie, and I think Danes and Patinkin are amazing together. It would be great to see Carrie be fully vindicated and Brody taken down. Season one seemed to be about Carrie being completely broken down, so I'd like to see a reversal and have Brody be exposed this season. He's got it coming.

[evalusion]

This show is great TV-- at the 50 minute mark, I was startled because the episode had moved so quickly I thought we were only halfway in.

It does seem like they don't quite know what to do with Brody this season though. It's clear he's not able to do things according to his own plan, but it's not clear what he thinks his plan is. He said he planned to use his position to change things in Washington, which, OK, terribly naive but at least it would make sense to see him try. His popularity and war hero status may have given him some leverage to speak out against things like drone strikes and still be credible, based on his unique experience of the horrors of war. But, instead he appears to have positioned himself as a hardcore conservative hawk, which means he can never advance more moderate views without looking crazy. Those politics mean that he can't openly challenge the vice president, and it seems the only upside to being the VP's BFF is that he occasionally gets taken into confidence but a) that relies on a lot of luck and things outside of his control b) it means his only power to be useful to Nazir is by funneling classified information, which is risky and also appears to be the exact thing he does not want to do. So what does Brody want to do? I have no idea what the show thinks his long game is right now, or what he thinks his long game is right now. Are we supposed to believe he intends to somehow wait long enough to become President, and then reverse course on U.S. foreign policy without meeting opposition and being pushed out of office? And if that is his game, shouldn't he say so to the reporter/agent, so that they can stop putting skeleton after skeleton in his closet long enough for him to get some real power?

[Regret]

Another amazing, edge of my seat episode. I can't believe we're already to the point where Saul learns that Brody was going to be a suicide bomber. I'm sure the writers have it all figured it out, but I can't help thinking - how can this last? Unless they kill off Saul (please no!) how can Brody continue as a character now that Saul knows the truth?

The texting was a bit of a stretch, but I was still anxious as hell during that scene. I would have thought a secure room like Brody was in would have something to jam ingoing and outgoing texts and calls. Also, would they really have allowed a freshman congressman in on such a top secret mission? We didn't see anyone that junior in the room during the raid to get bin-Ladin, did we? Now that Saul knows about Brody, that text is further proof against him, unless Nazir has connections at AT&T or Verizon or something...

But what the hell. I'm so hooked it's ridiculous.

[MasalaCurry]

Texting in that room was ridiculous and a weak plot. The VP confiding in Brody was weak as well. Very very weak plots. Overall the show is so great that such mistakes are too glaring to ignore.

Please please please don't kill of Saul, the show will not be the same without him. Brody is in a soup with everyone questioning Tom's death. Why does Brody care so much about Nazir? If Nazir had been killed, Brody would have been free in a way and no longer obligated to follow Nazir's whims, and lived a good life free of such tensions with his wife and new status. Instead he saves Nazir and is back to where he began. I just don't get what Nazir has on Brody.

[bannana]

Carrie went to take out her contacts and suddenly her hair was again blond with dark roots. WTF.

[Keely]

I would have thought a secure room like Brody was in would have something to jam ingoing and outgoing texts and calls.

It does. And your cellphones [Blackberry's] aren't allowed in the room to begin with. It was the first really massive screw up regarding this type of realism the show has done. That said, my other half and I decided we can forgive it for Saul knowing...sort of.

I thought it was a mistake not to kill Brody off last season. I gave them a bit of a pass to see how they would try to make it work. So far, I'm willing to keep extending the pass but I'm really rather ready for Brody to bite it - however, intriguing the whole storyline. I can't suspend disbelief forever.

[MTBradley]

I just don't get what Nazir has on Brody.

A personal relationship.

[Scrb]

Producers and Showtime may be hooked on the acclaim (and ratings?) to try to keep Brody around, even if they're stretching credulity.

Even without Brody's video surfacing (and why would it be in that dingy apt?), someone in the intelligence establishment have to be suspicious that Nazir seemed completely oblivious that he was walking into a trap and then at last second, bailed. They'd see Nazir being handed a phone and them jumping right back into the car.

NSA would then be mining for texts in that time frame to Beirut.

Then they'd start examining everyone who was monitoring the operation and realize they had an unusual guest in that room.

[VioletMarx]

A personal relationship.

The question is why that personal relationship is more important to him that the ones he has with his children.

I really, really don't want to lose Saul, but if they insist on going that road, I hope he is somehow able to communicate to Carrie that she was exactly right. Its so completely fucked up that that is the thing that is most screwing up her life right now - wondering how she could have been so wrong about Brody.

Great, great television. Add me to the list willing to forgive the lame text plot device (the whole lameness of Brody even being in that room, for that matter) for all the other good stuff we're getting.

Edited by VioletMarx, Oct 7, 2012 @ 11:29 PM.

[Blue Fedora]

Carrie went to take out her contacts and suddenly her hair was again blond with dark roots. WTF.

The dark hair is a wig... is it not? I noticed there is no part and the style is similar but not exact so I believe it's a wig vs. dye job.

As for the video 'confession'... do we KNOW what all Brody says? I don't recall that we were shown an actual "confession" when he recorded it and to the best of my recollection this is the first we've seen of it since we saw him record it. Who knows what Brody actually says. It could be something completely different than a "confession" an instead is just an explanation of something... something other than being a terrorist.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[toogoodtobetrue]

So the CIA uses Skype to discuss ultra-sensitive information? OK, show, sure, yeah.

I think I missed something re: why we think Saul might be killed? Can someone enlighten me?

Edited by toogoodtobetrue, Oct 7, 2012 @ 11:26 PM.

[VioletMarx]

I think I missed something re: why we think Saul might be killed? Can someone enlighten me?

It was stuff that was in the previews. Don't know if we're allowed to discuss that here...

[MasalaCurry]

Another thing - how did Brody's video end up in Beirut? Where is the connection? It was just a couple of days ago (I guess) that he left the video at the bench, and now its gone all the way to Beirut. Shouldn't it be with Nazir? Why the informer's husband? I don't get that connection either. Just 2 episodes in, and already the show has big loopholes. They better not ruin the show.

[toogoodtobetrue]

Ah, thanks.

Spoiler

that makes sense- MP was emotional and crying backstage at the Emmy's (to the point where Claire Danes was physically comforting him) and the producers noted in a nymag.com article that a major character would be killed off this season.

[VioletMarx]

It was just a couple of days ago (I guess) that he left the video at the bench,

I believe it was said that it's been six months since Carrie's shock treatments, so its been at least that long since Brody put the video in the bench.

Nice little piece of insurance Nazir had himself there.

[Lazyking]

Man, Tonight was awesome.. I did not expect Saul to find the the sucide bomber video.. That thru me for a loop. I'm not against Saul dying but I wish It doesn't come from Brody's hand. I love Brody and Carrie's dynamic and I want Brody to turn on Nazir... See that his loyalty to Nazir is really only been manipulated by Nazir because of Issa.

I don't know any spoilers but I want Brody to realize that saving Nazir tonight was a big mistake.

[Irlandesa]

That is what I was thinking too..on if anyone, even the CIA, can trace Brody's text to Abu Nazir. Interesting that he used May 1..aka May Day..as the abort code.

I have nothing to prove my speculation but I suspect the text wasn't sent directly to Nazir but rather to a contact (dark haired lady?) who then passed on the message to Nazir so the connection wouldn't be a direct one. But then again, maybe I'm giving them too much credit considered the credulity they asked me to stretch in this ep with the assassination scene. It was very tense but him getting a text off. Really?

Another thing - how did Brody's video end up in Beirut? Where is the connection? It was just a couple of days ago (I guess) that he left the video at the bench, and now its gone all the way to Beirut. Shouldn't it be with Nazir? Why the informer's husband?

I think it was more than a couple of days. Didn't he leave the video at the bench at the end of last season? I think quite a bit of time has passed since last season since he's already a Congressman. But otherwise, I totally agree with this. I don't get why that guy would be in possession of the video.

I think I missed something re: why we think Saul might be killed? Can someone enlighten me?

There are the previews but I don't think that's about Saul.

Spoiler

Mainly because the guy Brody looks to be attacking doesn't have MP's build. I think it's going to be Mike and that may constitute a 'major character' for producers. Hopefully because I don't want to lose Saul.

My worry stems from the fact that Saul has proof that Carrie was right about Brody. As a well liked supporting character who knows too much, he perfectly fills the stereotype of the kind of character show runners like to kill off for shock value so the audience knows 'no one is safe.' Even though, of course we all know that they can't kill off Carrie.

So what does Brody want to do? I have no idea what the show thinks his long game is right now, or what he thinks his long game is right now.

I'm okay with this. I find it realistic he doesn't know what his long game is. His long game when he got back was to wait for Nazir to give him directions. When the bomb didn't detonate and his daughter stopped him, he abandoned what had been motivating him up to that point. Now he's part of another long game but it's not really his. Once again, it's being directed by other people like Nazir and the VP. He seems to be intrigued by both options but eventually he'll have to choose. [s]I will put where I think this season will go in a spec thread rather than here since it's not really applicable to the ep.[/s] Or maybe here since there isn't one. Anyway, tonight Brody chose to save Nazir. I suspect that he'll end up making a different choice later on in the season.

Edited by Irlandesa, Oct 8, 2012 @ 12:16 AM.

[jeansheridan]

I'm not going to nitpick--Clare Danes ...action star! Hee. I really love it when shows can write realistic action sequences, especially for women. Everything she did was believable and she looked appropriately freaked out.

And I loved her let-down look when she arrived at her safe, suburban home. Her joy at being in the mix of things is fun to watch.

Also, I really love, love, love Dana. "What a dump!" She's got such a great voice and such great delivery and I never doubt her ability to read her father. She's by far his biggest threat right now. She sees what others miss or don't want to see. I suspect she will eventually be a big problem for Brody.

[Pallas429]

I think I missed something re: why we think Saul might be killed? Can someone enlighten me?

It was stuff that was in the previews.

Also, assuming Brody's video confession was just that, Saul now seems to possess concrete evidence Brody attempted a traitorous suicide mission. If Saul speaks of or delivers the evidence to the mole (his partner?), he's in peril.

But tough luck for Saul that the video was sewn into a bag left lying around with a note for Carrie ("Take Me"), and that Saul discovered what everyone else who handled the bag from Beirut back to Washington, missed.

[OptimisticCynic]

Why would they have such American looking security while in Beirut, particularly when picking up their asset? It might as well shout "CIA agents here!" I also couldn't believe that Carrie wouldn't at least be wearing a scarf on her head at that point in case they were stopped. I would figure they would try a little harder to blend in (Saul can slightly pass as Middle Eastern).

Edited by OptimisticCynic, Oct 8, 2012 @ 12:40 AM.

[evalusion]

I'm okay with this. I find it realistic he doesn't know what his long game is. His long game when he got back was to wait for Nazir to give him directions. When the bomb didn't detonate and his daughter stopped him, he abandoned what had been motivating him up to that point. Now he's part of another long game but it's not really his

I'd be OK with this in general, except that in going along with the VP's plans, and apparently presenting the sort of political front that leads the VP to believe he supports them, Brody's deliberately pretending to be a right wing hawk, which seems like a pretty calculated move, and yet another layer of lies and performance. I would think he'd have some idea why he was doing it. From what his army buddies said, those weren't even his politics before he went to war. Also, he knows Nazir kills assets when they're unreliable or no longer useful, so you'd think he'd be a little worried about keeping himself and his family alive, since supposedly he jumped ship for Dana, and in order to do that he'd at least have to convince Nazir that he had some kind of long term usefulness in his present position.

[jeansheridan]

Isn't Lebanon more diverse? I had a classmate who lived there with her very blond mother and her father was Lebanese. I also think that European or American businessmen would have security guards that looked like that agent. I'm not sure they would think CIA immediately, just that these people were Westerners.

Granted I do think Carrie should have had a headscarf on. Her blonde hair did make a good target.

[Numb Nut]

Awesome ep with great edge-of-your-seat action in Beirut, but I instantly blurted "give me a break" when Brody took out his cell to warn Nazir. I expect a bit more realism from this show, not a moment from The Departed. But I was happily surprised when Saul found the tape (I knew he'd find something but not this). And I'm glad the showrunners didn't decide to string us along with "where's the tape?" all season. It doesn't bother me that the tape wasn't with Nazir. I can see him leaving it with one of his top guys. I didn't watch the previews so I don't know any clues about killing Saul off. It would be a too obvious result of his character knowing too much, so I hope they don't take that road.

Can someone refresh my memory about Brody and Mike's friendship? Were they chummy or on the mend at the end of Season 1? Seeing them together was a bit of a surprise. And where's Dana's brother? Why was Dana the only one who was picked up from school?

Edited by Numb Nut, Oct 8, 2012 @ 12:34 AM.

[Lazyking]

She sees what others miss or don't want to see. I suspect she will eventually be a big problem for Brody.

I disagree. I feel like Dana will be an asset to her dad. She understands him better then most and I could see him telling her about Issa.. Maybe not the whole truth but enough to let her know that he was changed because of that but it doesn't change his love for her.

[jeansheridan]

Emotionally she's good for him, but I think she might blow the game for him unintentionally. If I were a writer, I would use her character that way. The writers have spent a lot of time making her his ally in the family. And yeah, he would tell her about Issa. She's eventually going to ask "why convert? What made you?" She's that type of girl. And her knowledge will trip him up. That's the kind of dramatic tension I really love.

[OptimisticCynic]

I just figured that even if their attack on Nazir was successful and they killed him, in order to get out of the country they'd want a driver and security that could easily blend as locals because word would travel and Hezbollah would be on the look out for anyone who looked remotely American.

And in this case, the mission was botched and Nazir knew what was going on - of course they would look at the guy's apartment and see an American looking guy escorting the wife to the car and find it incredibly suspicious. Just poor planning all around.

Special ops, by nature, would be whoever they had on hand. But they still passed better than the guy with Saul and Carrie. Her blond hair was also a big no, no. I would expect better planning from both Saul and Carrie - obviously they had a brunette wig they could have used.