55 replies to this topic

[cutecouple]

Quoting TWOP_Tennison:

I'm not going to time lock the thread, but please do not post in here until after the episode has aired in your timezone.UK viewers are allowed to post in here after the episode airs on BBC. Do not use spoiler tags in here.After watching the episode on September 22, please do not post about it anywhere in the forum until after it's aired in the U.S.

A few hours later, US (and other) viewers will be allowed to post in here after it's aired on BBC America. Please read any posts that are already in here before you join the conversation. Any questions please ask in the mod thread.Thanks!

Edited by TWoP Tennison, Sep 23, 2012 @ 7:33 PM.
Weird formatting

[darkestboy]

I really enjoyed this episode. I think Chibnall is definitely on a roll with his episodes for this series so far.

The slow invasion with the cubes and the Shakri was such a great idea and while the resolution was a little rushed, it was really about them in the first place.

This felt like an analysis of the Doctor/Companion dynamic in general and how often companions can leave the Doctor.

It was nice the Doctor had those scenes with Amy, Rory and Brian throughout the episode, all revealing different aspects about travelling with him.

The scene with the Doctor talking to Amy about running towards her and Rory got to me. I really am going to be a wreck next week now.

Love that Amy/Rory have normal jobs and love actually living normal lives as well, a nice thing there.

Kate Stewart was bloody fantastic in every way. Can we please have her return in the latter half of the series? 9/10.

[Kaoteek]

So-so on this episode. I liked the intentions and the ideas, but as usual with Chibnall, the execution is lacking a bit. Especially the last part of the episode, where everything seemed to be rushed and not well thought out. Why did the Eeeevil Baddie need two robot twin nurses to kidnap people and bring them aboard his ship ? Never explained. And more importantly, unless I've missed something in that mess of a rushed ending : have those poor abducted humans been left to die in the ship's explosion by the Doc & the others ? Seemed like nobody even bothered to wake them up, or to check on them...

Edited by Kaoteek, Sep 23, 2012 @ 2:55 PM.

[jcin617]

I liked this episode well enough, but I'm still left unsatisified with the disconnect between the Doctor's angst about Amy and Rory leaving, and the fact he's MARRIED TO THEIR DAUGHTER. I'm not sure why he's acting like not travelling with him anymore means he'll never see them again. For real world casting reasons, yeah, Companions leave and we don't really see them again. But surely his connection through River is strong enough that, in story, they'd still be in his life in some fashion if not outright travelling with him.

Edited by jcin617, Sep 23, 2012 @ 2:18 PM.

[macster83]

But his marriage to River isn't exactly conventional, is it? Unless I missed it, it's not clear how often Amy and Rory see River let alone how often the Doctor sees her. I can buy that the connection through River wouldn't amount to too much.

I'm wondering if River's future (past?) death is going to come up next week? I would kind of like to see Amy and Rory's reaction to the Doctor knowing how she dies, but not enough for Amy/Rory to come back after next week.

[Nightmare Logic]

I don't usually post on this thread but I liked the episode well enough as a (I guess Prequel) to Rory and Amy's final episode. In all honesty The Ponds are among my favorite of the Doctor's companions. I just love how they meld with him and the three of them just understand each other like a family. I liked the parts where we saw pieces of both the adventures with the Doctor and Amy and Rory's real life; how they genuinely enjoyed both and excelled at both. Its not like they had nothing to go back to. If my memory serves some of the companions didn't really have have much to go back to. Rory and Amy have a full life at home but they CHOSE to run with the Doctor. I think their final episode will be in part the repercussions of that final choice.

As for the slow invasion it was kind of a mess but I think that story was secondary to Amy and Rory's choice and even the Doctor trying the be a part of their "real life." Mostly I liked it an yeah maybe at the end...rushed but all in all a better then average episode.

I am going to miss the Amy and Rory.

I liked this episode well enough, but I'm still left unsatisified with the disconnect between the Doctor's angst about Amy and Rory leaving, and the fact he's MARRIED TO THEIR DAUGHTER

The Doctor and River don't have a traditional marriage in any sense of the word. And we know the Doctor...I have no idea how to phrase the next sentence so lets just say, the Adventure at the Library happens. There are several things that could cause Rory and Amy to cut ties with the Doctor or maybe the Doctor cuts ties with them for their own good. He lets them have their normal life. Either way there are so many ways the River thing could end and end badly.

[MGaboriau]

I liked the first two-thirds of the episode because it felt so much like the best episodes of Who; an intriguing problem in the form of those mysterious cubes who do nothing but are everywhere, and a pleasant exploration of the TARDIS' crew dynamics, with added humour. And then, for a huge dose of nostalgia, the Brigadier's daughter! They even respected that character so much that they got someone from the Redgrave acting dynasty to portray her and made her into an interesting character even before her identity was revealed.

After all that, I was dreading the resolution, with good reasons as it turned out. As too often happens on Who these days we get a rushed and illogical explanation of the whole game, after which the problem is solved with a waving of the Doctor's magic wand. Everything was rushed so the viewer would not pause long enough to have time to question the plotlines left dangling like the exact point of those two square-mouthed nurses (perhaps they so fell in love with the idea of the grotesque visuals that they could not resist, relevance be damned) and those poor other guinea pigs left behind by the Doctor to blow up along with the ship. Not to mention how people who have suffered heart failure can be revived after so much time has elapsed and just get up and walk; how many minutes before irreparable damage sets in with the blood not flowing to vital parts like the brain (and what about clotting)?

And what a waste of the guest actor chosen to portray the Shakri hologam; we had Savonarole in space here and although his desire to clean up the human plague had some echoes of the Bonfire of the Vanities (was that deliberate in the casting?), he was mostly used to spout some nonsense explanations.

Although Amy is still grating at times, I will be sorry to see Rory go (and his dad). I just hope the next episode does honour to these two companions and does not further trivialise guest monsters who were once Moffat's most frightening creation.

Edited by MGaboriau, Sep 23, 2012 @ 6:04 PM.

[HauntedBathroom]

Didn't this feel like a flashback to the RTD era? Faux news broadcasts, celebrity cameos, a rushed and unclear resolution that sounded good but didn't really explain much? But yet, I really enjoyed it. I would have preferred it if there had been a genuinely unusual reason behind the cubes, maybe something benevelant, or maybe part of a plan that didn't even notice humanity was on the planet they were infesting, but I suppose pest control is more unusual then the 'aliens take over the world'.

I was glad to see Brian again, and to get a glimpse at Rory and Amy's home life - I can't help but feel that this life we keep seeing for them outside the TARDIS can't last. We seen enough of them at home that I don't expect Moffat to let them go back to nursing and bridesmaiding, I can't help but feel there's more coming. And I loved the quiet chats the Doctor had with Amy, and with Brian. That's two good Chibnall episodes on the trot, is this a sign of the Apocalypse?

Plus - Lord Sugar! Professor Brian Cox! I love those guys, and now they belong to us!

[deb50]

I have to keep reminding myself this is a kids show and that the emotional payoff I want is probably not going to happen. And Im not talking about the Doctor portrayed as Peter Pan and Amy portrayed as a women/child still trying to figure out how to give up childish things, but the actual reality that the Pond family has spilled alot of literal/figurative blood because of their association with the Doctor.I would think that that would actually have built up piles of resentment toward the Doctor, which has never been dealt with. I would have liked to see a mature, layered story dealing with the actual consequences of traveling with the Doctor, who can be very reckless with his companions, play out, but Im pretty sure now that it never will happen.

[AudienceofOne]

I'm the opposite, Deb50. They're family. I wanted acknowledgement of that instead of this imprinting idea. Oh, he loves Amy because she was the first thing he saw? That's so... shallow. Rory and Amy are his family and, for a man who lost his family hundreds of years ago, that's a powerful thing. So why not emphasise that? I think any resentment Amy and Rory had toward the Doctor was dealt with long ago.

Apropos of my first post too - I thought through the episode and counted up the MacGuffins. It was extraordinary. The boxes were MacGuffins, the nurses with box faces were MacGuffins, the robot child was a MacGuffin, the kidnapping of Rory was a MacGuffin, UNIT was in there for no reason at all but to have Kate Stewart in the story and their presence had no impact on the plot. What plot, you ask? Exactly. Was Chibnall ever taught how to actually tell a story? Saw what you want about Mercy but at least it had a story to tell and it managed to do it without all this sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[KnittingMama]

I posted in what is now apparently now a nonexistent version of this thread yesterday. Anyway, this was a total throw-away episode to me. While it was great to see the Brigadier's daughter, this didn't feel like a second-to-last-Pond episode to me. I guess I expected more...something. Not even sure what, just that this epi fell flat to me.

[Fabrisse]

I squeed over Professor Brian Cox's analysis and realizing who Kate Stewart was (both in a Whovian sense and the actress playing her). Much of the rest was flat. I did think they tried to get the other humans off the ship while the Doctor was interfacing with the ship's AI. Maybe I'm just being optimistic. I'll have to rewatch.

[Kaoteek]

Nah, they were still there, laying in the background, a few seconds before the ship blew up.

[Arnella]

While I will be glad to see the Ponds go (particularly Amy), I've gotten to like Rory's dad and would really like to see him introduced to his granddaughter. And get his reaction to "Mels" being her all along as I'm pretty sure he never liked Rory being friends with that delinquent.

[ChainofFools]

Why am I so nervous that especially given the ominous foreshadowings of this episode (the promise to Rory's dad that nothing will happen to him and Amy, the ending where they both go off so happily with the doctor) that the end of the traveling threesome which airs next week will leave either Amy or Rory dead? If it must be so, please don't let it be Rory. While I adore Amy, there is something about Rory that is simply so wonderful that it feels like the world will be a lesser place without him, plus it would just about kill his Weasley dad

[Lantern7]

I can't imagine the Brig having a daughter . . . but I'm betting most fans didn't see him being married prior to "Battlefield."

I like the whimsical episodes, which I know they're getting ready to punch us in the ribs next week. Cute idea for a year-long, subtle invasion of seemingly benign cubes. They they do everything, up to and including playing the Chicken Dance song. And we had a variation of the Ten/Wilf conversation with Eleven and Brian. Thankfully, the Doctor didn't go into details over companions. "Well, I had to scramble one woman's mind. I let a warrior lady run off with a fey guy back home. [pulling out a broken star] Dear God, do not let me get into what happened to this guy."

Edited by Lantern7, Sep 23, 2012 @ 7:45 PM.

[Nylver]

So 2 years in real life = 10 years in Amy and Rory's life. They are 8 years older than people think they are. That seems like a big difference. So that means they travelled with the doctor for 8 years in total, right? Because those are the extra years.

I loved Rory's dad again but I never had a problem with companions family members. Loved Wilf, Mickey and Roses mom. I was hoping for a reference that would be about him being at the wedding.

Loved, loved Kate Stewart: Ravens of death! More please!

Not looking forward to next week, Amy is finally getting bearable and I always want more Rory the roman! I will miss him so much.

I enjoyed the story, except for the end. Such a great idea and then they end it with reversing a global cardiac arrest and leave some innocent people to blow up in a space ship. Why were these people in the space ship anyway? The cubes already got all the information there was to get?

[Blue Castle]

I liked this episode well enough, but I'm still left unsatisfied with the disconnect between the Doctor's angst about Amy and Rory leaving, and the fact he's MARRIED TO THEIR DAUGHTER.

Is he though, really? The Doctor has implied that he gets married fairly often and we’ve seen it implied that he married Queen Elizabeth I and Marilyn Monroe. And those marriages mean virtually nothing to him. Since he’s a time traveler all of his marriages are binding and at the same time none of them are (when he’s in our present QEI and Marilyn are dead. When he’s in 1066 none of them, including River, have been born, etc.) I think he considers his marriage to River as sort of a running joke he has with her.

Didn't this feel like a flashback to the RTD era? Faux news broadcasts, celebrity cameos, a rushed and unclear resolution that sounded good but didn't really explain much?

I totally thought the same thing and this was why I enjoyed it. It was a throwback to the RTD years, up to and including that its bells and whistles didn't make much sense but existed to gussy up a character-centered story. And since the character stuff was really lovely (the Doctor's conversations with Amy and Brian were both really well done) I didn't mind the weird plot holes. A real pleasure for me was seeing Amy and Rory have a believable married rapport that wasn't grating or horrible (I actually mildly liked Rory for the first time since...ever?) The Chib is slightly redeemed in my eyes.

[EllyF]

I think he considers his marriage to River as sort of a running joke he has with her.

I would think so too, except per "The Silence in the Library" there was only one reason he could tell her his name, and that made it seem pretty serious *shrugs*. My thoughts about River were more about why the episode covered a year and there was no suggestion that River ever visited. Not only are the Ponds her parents, they're her best buds from their childhood. Shouldn't she drop by sometimes? Shouldn't she at least be mentioned more often?

I really liked this one up till the end. It set up an intriguing mystery, and then it offered a lame and unconvincing explanation that came out of left field. Random alien, explanations that were halfhearted at best, and a solution that was really unbelievable (people can't recover from death by heart attack after more than a couple of minutes have passed, and besides, all it took was the sonic screwdriver? Really?? And why were there square-faced guys, and why were they kidnapping people, and did those people get saved, or were they just left behind to blow up?).

Also, this one didn't seem to listen to its own setup-- Amy talked about how it was the time the Doctor came to stay, only he didn't. Furthermore, Eleven never struck me as so hyperactive that he couldn't sit still for a few days. Ten, yes, but not Eleven. I did like the tiny callback to "The Lodger" when he was easing his boredom with football, though. I also liked the fact that at the end, the Ponds chose the Doctor instead of "normal life." As they should!

There was a lot to like about this one, but it collapsed in on itself at the end. I thought it was going to be a keeper till the last ten minutes or so, though.

Edited by EllyF, Sep 23, 2012 @ 9:34 PM.

[Melewen]

(From one of the disappeared threads)

I enjoyed most of this episode. I liked the character moments and the character growth. I found myself enjoying seeing how the Ponds interacted with the "real world." But the episode totally lost me once they got to the ship. It should have been the climax, but instead we get a new baddie out of nowhere, the Doctor gives a siliquoy and then he... what? Reverses the polarity of the boxes? I don't really know what happened, because nothing really happened.

The episode spent 52 minutes building up suspense, 1 minute introducing the alien bad guy (that wasn't even there to begin with), 1 minute solving the problem with the sonic screwdriver, 2 minutes stretching out the goodbye and 15 seconds on an unnecessary voice-over. That's not storytelling.


.

[AudienceofOne]

and 15 seconds on an unnecessary voice-over

Which actually raises something else about the episode that definitely puts it in the 'crap' category for me after considering it properly - what was with the 'Power of Three' nonsense at the end when this episode was manifestly nothing to do with the three of them solving this problem? It was the Doctor, Rory, Amy, UNIT, Brian 'Pond' - it was the power of 30, not three, and the concept wasn't explored at all. it was just this random conclusion at the end.

[EllyF]

and 15 seconds on an unnecessary voice-over

I have to say I am tired of voice-overs. Really, really tired. Every episode does not need to be framed by voice-overs. At least this one was someone relevant, rather than random-person-with-no-relationship-to-the-plot. But what's with all the voice-overs beginning and ending the episodes? I think this was the third one this season.

Which actually raises something else about the episode that definitely puts it in the 'crap' category for me after considering it properly - what was with the 'Power of Three' nonsense at the end when this episode was manifestly nothing to do with the three of them solving this problem?

I really liked the "power of three" idea. But yeah, for it to work properly, there should have been a problem that could only be solved by the combination of skills possessed by the Doctor, Amy and Rory. Then the ending bit would have made a lot more sense.

[Melewen]

The voice-overs are simply a crutch for lazy writing. If you can't say it in the script, than you need to re-write, not just tack it on. It seems to me that the problems with this episode (and the season in general) are in the editing. There have been some wonderful ideas, but I feel like we're watching the first draft.

[Ddykeman]

Does Rory's father know how many times his son has died with the Doctor? If he did, he might not be so quick to send him off on new adventures.

[karra]

Oh, he loves Amy because she was the first thing he saw? That's so... shallow.

No more shallow than when geese or ducks or other things do it. Filial imprinting is a thing.

[Indeg]

I can't imagine the Brig having a daughter . . . but I'm betting most fans didn't see him being married prior to "Battlefield."

Oh, but the Brigadier had a love life as early as Planet of the Spiders, way back in the Third Doctor era - that was the first on-screen reference to his relationship to Doris, although we didn't meet her until Battlefield.

I loved the character study aspects of this episode and that always makes me more forgiving on plot failings - although it would be so nice to have an episode that both explored the characters in depth and had a plot that held together satisfactorily!

[B. Will]

I really liked the "power of three" idea. But yeah, for it to work properly, there should have been a problem that could only be solved by the combination of skills possessed by the Doctor, Amy and Rory. Then the ending bit would have made a lot more sense.

I don't even think that would've been necessary for it to make sense. The point, I felt, was that it's the core relationship between the Doctor and his companion(s) that makes him who he is and makes it possible for him to do what he does, even though there are often people like Kate, or Tremas, or whoever else playing an integral role in particular stories.

It's a theme that's been explored before ("Turn Left" springs to mind). And given the anvils dropped in "A Town Called Mercy," it seems that it's a focus of at least the fall series.

[Taarn]

Remember when the stories were all part of an ultimate story arc? The werewolf story explained the creation of Torchwood, the Library story dropped all sorts of foreshadowing about River, etc. Does Moffat not have a plan about where the series is going?? He seems to just be obsessed with Amy and can't get past her leaving. The Doctor is always sad (sometimes devastated) when a companion has to leave but it doesn't go on and on and become the MAIN story for weeks. Rip off the bandaid and get on with it already!!

[EllyF]

Does Moffat not have a plan about where the series is going??

He said specifically there would be no arc this year.

The Doctor is always sad (sometimes devastated) when a companion has to leave but it doesn't go on and on and become the MAIN story for weeks.

*cough*Rose*cough*

To be fair, Rose-moping wasn't the "main story," but it did get kind of intrusive, I thought. I hope the fact that we've moped for the Ponds in advance means we won't have to mope for them endlessly afterward. The moping does become tiresome.

It seems to me that the problems with this episode (and the season in general) are in the editing. There have been some wonderful ideas, but I feel like we're watching the first draft.

I agree. I think this could have been an absolutely awesome episode with a bit of tightening, and some cutting of the first part to allow them to properly flesh out the conclusion. It had so much potential that it's a little sad that the end wasn't as well thought out as it should have been.

[DeirdreMom]

I thought I would like this one more. Last week, I wasn't excited about casting the episode as a western (never liked westerns), but enjoyed it more than I thought I would.

This week's episode promised something more to my taste, but I was faintly disappointed. I thought maybe it was the lack of coherence that other people mentioned, but I've loved previous episodes that had me scratching my head wondering what actually just happened. I am generally an uncritical viewer, so lack of coherence is usually not a dealbreaker for me. There was something more intangible about this episode that made me feel unsatisfied. I'm having trouble putting my finger on it.

Currently I'm focusing obsessively on the role of the Ponds in the story. Partly because the Ponds are leaving, but really because I just enjoy watching Arthur Darvill pay Rory. (Donna used to be my favorite companion, but Rory has taken her place). At the end, I couldn't make sense of the Ponds' decision at the end to go with the Doctor in light of what was being said about liking 'normal' life. Were they giving that up? Or did they think that they could travel with the doctor and still be fully invested in their home life? I thought it was a lovely glimpse of a mature couple - paying attention to their friends and their careers. Was that being flushed down the toliet? I'm so confused. I think one of them should have had a line that clarified what was going on there. (Other than Amy's voice over telling us how awesome the three of them are together - which I didn't mind because I agree.)

Bits I didn't like:

1) Leaving all those people on the ship - I have to fanwank that Rory THE NURSE checked them out and determined that they couldn't be saved or taken off the machines. (You'll notice that Rory's dad was still on the stretcher.)

2) Storywise taking people on the ship didn't make any sense - that bit should have been dropped.

3) I wish the Doctor had a quiet conversation with Rory similar to the conversation with Amy. In the Rory thread, someone mentioned that the dynamic between the Doctor and Rory was a new one - one in which the Doctor seemed more attached to the companion than the companion was to him. This episode shows that Rory does really love the doctor and the adventures - I'd have like to see some acknowledgement of how this came about.

Bits I loved:
1) Rory kissing the doctor (see #3 above). it was a really sweet gesture and so beautifully played by both actors. Matt Smith did a wonderful job as portraying the Doctor's reaction as both comical and poignant (he was amazed & delighted & stunned). Arthur Darvill did a good job conveying Rory's shyness in that bit. I was a little surprised that Karen played it with such little reaction.

2) It was lighthearted with lots of beautiful character moments. Brian was awesome.

Edited by DeirdreMom, Sep 24, 2012 @ 11:36 PM.