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#301

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 2:54 PM

And I didn't like Ryan dismissing other churches that are gay-friendly. I mean, maybe he just would prefer a Catholic church, because of how he was raised, but it seemed like he was basically saying that protestant churches don't exist or are worthless.

I think Bryan was thinking specifically of gay churches, not Protestant churches that are gay-friendly. Which is why he likened them to having to use a separate water fountain.

I really enjoyed this episode. Having grown up Catholic and having wandered a bit before finding myself a Quaker, I thought Bryan's emotional conflict rang true. I also thought his struggle was something that is especially Catholic, at least in the U.S. For lots of American Catholics, their membership and participation in the church isn't necessarily about theology and a list of things they believe -- it's about culture and tradition and a sense of family continuity. And when you're about to have a kid, that's the time you're most likely to miss those things. And there are certainly priests like that, although they are more and more in the minority as the hierarchy has tried to enforce a strict political uniformity on priests.

#302

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 3:08 PM

I liked it! I can see how it might have offended people who belong to churches that Bryan was rejecting, but I don't think it's an unfair point or him to make that "denomination shopping" was not a solution to his problem, and that he didn't know how to resolve his genuine interest in staying with the Church he had found meaningful, with the fact that that church rejects who he is. I'm a lesbian Jew, and I couldn't just go to some other religion just because they said they wanted me; in fact, some people would say that's a pretty shallow approach to religion, and would doubt the sincerity of someone who did it.

I think religion and spirituality mean different things to different people, but the struggle to find ones way in this area is a real and very common one for LGBT people, who may have sincere desire to remain members of organizations who do not accept them. What do you do in that situation?

It's also something I see straight people struggle with, in that some care about religion and spirituality, but they have not been regularly attending services anywhere, for whatever reason, or they do not identify with a particular group that's not the one they grew up in. But when they have kids, they want to give them the grounded experience of a formal organization like they had, and share it with them, so they start to look for a place they can join and feel comfortable with. So it's not ONLY lgbt p people who I'd think could relate to the story.

I was horrified that they neglected the hamster enough that it died over the weekend. That is really not funny to me. However, I did like the attempt to pass it off with the transgender explanation, since they didn't continue lying to Shania past the initial "panic save" attempt, and I liked how it went after that, with both Rocky and Shania weighing in on the afterlife issue.

I really like this show. It's not all about love triangles, misunderstandings that come from people ignoring simple and obvious opportunities to communicate, it's not about a married couple who hate each other and fight all the time over nothing, and it's not the same as everything else on the air. I would rather see new parents struggle to clarify how to raise their child with a spiritual foundation than see them yell at each other over assembling a crib, or make jokes about morning sickness.

It really was a relief to have no Nana this week.

#303

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 4:33 PM

The other thing I forgot to mention is that I've heard jokes about the abs of Jesus from so many comedians that it wasn't particularly shocking or surprising. (Although referring to those abs as "beach ready" was certainly funny.)

#304

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 5:32 PM

Here's a posting from the Curbed LA real estate blog about Ryan Murphy's house. The story notes that "the sets he created for The New Normal are a near replica of his own house."

And someone commented that there are a few more parallels between Murphy's life and TNN: the show has Brian and David; in real life they are Ryan and David; Brian runs a TV show about teenagers called, "Sing," which is obviously "Glee."

#305

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 5:38 PM

And someone commented that there are a few more parallels between Murphy's life and TNN

Plus, the dogs!

His house is to die for.

Edited by biakbiak, Oct 24, 2012 @ 5:39 PM.


#306

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 6:33 PM

I was horrified that they neglected the hamster enough that it died over the weekend.


Was neglect really the cause of death? I know that was the accusation, but hamsters aren't long-lived to begin with.

#307

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 7:30 PM

Yeah, that hamster must have died of old age. I've never heard of jokes about the abs of Jesus, but when the older kids used to say the stations of the cross during lent, they would holler out the one where Jesus was STRIPPED of his clothes.

#308

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 7:41 PM

I wonder if viewers unfamiliar with Nene Leakes from reality shows find her acting as noticeably weak as I do, or if I am just paying too much attention to it. But her performance seems very self conscious and studied and I think it's really obvious when she has scenes with the lead guys, who are just so natural. It's like I can see her eyes trying to remember her lines.

#309

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 8:04 PM

lol...that's a good way to put it Morbs.


I liked it, but it was the first one of the series that didn't make me laugh out loud at least once. Let's do more laughing and less preaching Ryan, ok?

#310

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 8:07 PM

It's like I can see her eyes trying to remember her lines.


I always look at her eye line to see where they have pasted her lines to the scenery. I am not saying that happens but her "acting" makes me think it's a possibility.

#311

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 9:03 PM

I always look at her eye line to see where they have pasted her lines to the scenery. I am not saying that happens but her "acting" makes me think it's a possibility.


It's like a nervous kid at a Spelling Bee cautiously saying each letter, praying he gets it right.

Edited by Morbs, Oct 24, 2012 @ 9:09 PM.


#312

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 9:12 PM

I'd never seen Nene Leakes before she showed up on Glee. I think she does fine. She's not a strong actress, and I think that showed last night when she had to be comforting and emotional, but I think she does the snarky bitch thing really well. I liked her as Black Sue and I like her on this.

I'm not religious and I thought this episode was fine. Not great, but not awful either.

I don't think Bryan was referring to protestant churches in general when he said he didn't want to go to an "other" church. I thought he was specifically referring to a UU type church.

Was neglect really the cause of death? I know that was the accusation, but hamsters aren't long-lived to begin with.


Yeah, I'd be will to bet he died of LWBH (living while being a hamster).

#313

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 11:34 PM

I thought Marshmallow was a guinea pig. If it's the class pet, they shouldn't have risked a replacement, because even if Shania didn't notice the change, some other kid or the teacher could have.

I think Bryan was thinking specifically of gay churches, not Protestant churches that are gay-friendly. Which is why he likened them to having to use a separate water fountain.


That's my point. Why did he pretend that gay-friendly Protestant churches didn't exist? Why did he focus only on so-called hippie churches?

"Denomination shopping" may be frowned upon but I saw it all the time when I was in college, among both gay and straight students. Students who lost faith in their own religions that they were raised as, went looking for other religions that were compatible to them. Many were attracted to Buddhism, which made me laugh, because that was the religion I was nominally brought up as, and I hated going to temple as a kid. It just goes to show that the grass is always greener on somebody else's lawn.

It's one thing if Bryan just preferred the Catholic church because it's how he was raised, but to pretend that any other gay-friendly church must be a hippie free-for-all church that was founded yesterday, seemed ignorant and rude of him. Besides, he's perfectly willing to include David's Jewish faith in the kid's upbringing, and whatever spiritual views Rocky and Shania have. Why isn't that considered "denomination shopping" too, if they're going to mix and match lots of faiths for their kid? Why not join a church that already accepts their family and not a church where the priest says they'll be "fighting" against hostile doctrine?

#314

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 11:53 PM

Was neglect really the cause of death? I know that was the accusation, but hamsters aren't long-lived to begin with.

I'm pretty sure he's a guinea pig (or else that's the biggest damn hamster I've ever seen), but even so, would it really die after one weekend of dodgy care? Usually a full bowl of food and a water bottle last a couple days, and death should take a couple more at least.

I kinda liked Bryan's comments about the Catholic church because, if I still believed in God, I'd only want to be Catholic (or maybe not since they changed the service, but still...). And having kids often brings parents back to church out of obligation, if nothing else. My parents only started going again to get us from Communion through Confirmation and then quit going again. None of us kids went after Confirmation until one of my brothers decided to join a church after he had kids (and not the Catholic church) to do the same for them, essentially. I really liked that David was allowed to stick to his guns and not return to Judaism because his issues aren't about his religion's acceptance but his lack of belief in God.

I don't know if they're going for an actual Catholic baptism godparent deal, but if so, neither Rocky nor Shania qualify, iirc. Shania's too young, period, and neither are, as far as we know, confirmed Catholics who are currently practicing.

ETA

It's one thing if Bryan just preferred the Catholic church because it's how he was raised, but to pretend that any other gay-friendly church must be a hippie free-for-all church that was founded yesterday, seemed ignorant and rude of him.

Oh. Er, that part actually rang kinda true for me. *ducks* In a flippant conversation, I'd probably say the same thing - every Protestant church I've been at feels like a hippie free-for-all compared to the weight of Catholicism. Judaism and Islam are at least old enough to feel less like rebellious teenagers in comparison. But take that with the ginormous grain of salt of someone who finds all religious kinda pointless (for herself!).

Edited by CoyoteBlue, Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:03 AM.


#315

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 1:51 AM

I wonder if viewers unfamiliar with Nene Leakes from reality shows find her acting as noticeably weak as I do


I've never seen her or heard of her before this show because I avoid most reality shows. I don't notice her acting being bad or distracting. To me she seems like a regular and believable person compared to the outrageousness of Nana and how sometimes Bryan can go over the top.

#316

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 2:09 AM

Oh. Er, that part actually rang kinda true for me. *ducks* In a flippant conversation, I'd probably say the same thing - every Protestant church I've been at feels like a hippie free-for-all compared to the weight of Catholicism.


My main issue was the show tried to have it both ways; everything but Catholicism is hippie nonsense but the Leader of the Catholic Church, a singular position that has sustained influence for around 2000 years, is just the crazy drunk uncle spouting nonsense; that gays should stand up to and fight against to make themselves welcome in that church. One as if they haven't tried to do that and two as if the Catholic Church makes real changes at anything other an a glacial pace. It just strikes me as such an ignorant view of the Catholic Church worldwide and even in the US where Archdioceses have threatened to suspend priests from doing communion for supporting the wrong political candidates.

Edited by biakbiak, Oct 25, 2012 @ 3:11 AM.


#317

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 4:59 AM

I didn't interpret what he said about gay-friendly churches as implying it's all hippie nonsense, just that he had no interest in it, which, for something like religion, I don't really think one necessarily needs a well-reasoned argument. Basically, if it didn't "feel right" to him and he really wanted Catholicism, there's kind of nothing one could do to convince him otherwise. Sure, you'd think one might try it first before deciding it's not for you...but...again I'd circle back to...it' religion, people tend to be especially knee-jerk about it. Especially once he established himself as not-a-denomination-shopper.

Edited by theatremouse, Oct 25, 2012 @ 5:02 AM.


#318

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 8:19 AM

To me she seems like a regular and believable person compared to the outrageousness of Nana and how sometimes Bryan can go over the top.


Her character seems more normal than Nana but her acting is very wooden and unnatural to me.

I did like that she mentioned how many other tv shows have tried the old replacement pet routine and failed because IT IS TRUE!

#319

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 8:58 AM

And someone commented that there are a few more parallels between Murphy's life and TNN: the show has Brian and David; in real life they are Ryan and David; Brian runs a TV show about teenagers called, "Sing," which is obviously "Glee."

OK then, so who's the lazy anorexic actress David was referring to when Brian was praying?

I don't think she's a strong actress or possibly all that versatile, but NL is OK enough in this role (and in her Glee part). I didn't know when I first saw her in Glee that she was from reality television, but figured she was somebody not-an-actress.

I didn't find this episode all that funny; in fact, it was probably my least favorite after the political episode. The Nana break was kind of nice; although, when Goldie was going on about all of her family abandoning her, I was wondering how she could overlook a certain someone who raised her, helped with raising her daughter, and followed them both to California.

#320

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 9:45 AM

Judaism and Islam are at least old enough to feel less like rebellious teenagers in comparison.


Considering Judaism is OLDER than Catholicism, I should hope so!

I liked the episode overall, but it did feel a bit heavy handed at times. Still, as someone in an interfaith relationship, I liked that they laid the seeds of balancing both faiths for the guys.

#321

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 10:21 AM

Why did he pretend that gay-friendly Protestant churches didn't exist? Why did he focus only on so-called hippie churches?


I thought by "hippie churches" he was talking about Catholic churches that had guitar Masses and tambourines and that might generally be more tolerant of different lifestyles. He wanted a more traditional Mass that was inclusive to gays.

I'm enjoying how everyone has a different interpretation of what was said, depending on one's religious background (or lack thereof).

Edited by dubbel zout, Oct 25, 2012 @ 10:22 AM.


#322

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:11 PM

I'm pretty sure he's a guinea pig (or else that's the biggest damn hamster I've ever seen), but even so, would it really die after one weekend of dodgy care? Usually a full bowl of food and a water bottle last a couple days, and death should take a couple more at least.


Guinea pigs are prey animals and hide illnesses well. Marshmallow could have had over grown teeth or an abcess or gastrointestinal stasis and been hiding the symptoms (especially around handsy kids). It's notorious with rabbits (another prey animal), they'll seem fine on Friday, picky with food on Saturday, not eating Sunday, and dead on Monday morning.

#323

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:30 PM

I don't think Marshmallow would have died from lack of care over a couple of days with no food or water bottle refills alone, but my best friend accidentally killed a bunch of previously healthy guinea pigs by leaving them in a sunny room with no ventilation for an afternoon. If Bryan and David's laundry room was stuffy and overly hot, that might have done him in from overheating.

#324

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 2:25 PM

If Shania were catholic, she could be the baby's godmother. My godfather is only eight or ten years older than me. (I don't remember his age because I haven't seen him since that day, but I've seen the pictures and he's just a kid). But yeah, it's necessary to be catholic in order to be a catholic godparent.

I never like TV episodes about religion and this wasn't the exception. But I have a better opinion of Shania now that I know that she loves Quantum Leap so much.

ETA: Sorry, I was wrong, my godfather was maybe thirteen or fourteen.

Edited by Helena Dax, Oct 25, 2012 @ 3:07 PM.


#325

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 2:53 PM

Even my highly Catholic sister-in-law chose godparents for my niece and nephew to be more honorary than official. They all went through the baptism (christening?) and stuff, but I don't think my SIL expects any godparent to quiz the kids on what the Stations of the Cross are or anything. It's a way to honor the relationship she has with the people she chose, and I think that's how most people treat it.

#326

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Posted Oct 26, 2012 @ 1:31 AM

Yeah I've always seen godparents treated as honorary family members or legal guardians in case of the parents' deaths. They are being super serious about this spiritual guidance role.

#327

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Posted Oct 26, 2012 @ 11:46 AM

It's better than the most recent How I Met Your Mother. Their episode called Who Wants to be a Godparent? was all about finding guardians for Marshall & Lily's new baby. They completely misused the term. I appreciated this show using proper terminology.

#328

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Posted Oct 26, 2012 @ 5:07 PM

In a lot of ways, this was the best and worst episode so far.

Best: The writing was actually really good, I gave a sense that Ryan Murphy really reeled it in with some scenes. I actually loved the scene at the church, because while Bryan was being strangely hateful towards Gay-Centric Churches, they wrote the minister to be so good. John Benjamin Hickey knocked that out of the park and made such a likable, one-off character. (I hate his character on The Big C, but he's good at acting very nihilistic too). And I like that they addressed the issue of godparents in such a clear way. Also, NO NANA! Thank the lord. Just imagine what would spew out of her mouth if she went to that church.

Worst: Not funny. A few one-liners here and there, but really no setups for jokes. I didn't really laugh, but that also meant that nothing fell flat as a forced joke. And Rocky kind of built to me as a bad character. I still don't really like her, because she's still kind of a nasty person. (Bryan doesn't feel like that bad of a boss) I thought the message bordered on preachy, but not too much.

But I think this episode solidified everything I don't really like about Shania and how she takes me out of the show. She's...too perfect. I mean, all adults love her and she is so astute and smart that it takes me out of it. It's one thing to be book-smart, but she was so completely mindful about spirituality and death felt too forced. Every other kid has gotten flustered or honestly angry/mad about their situations, but Shania has this strange, zen-like quality to her. She knows everything, until she doesn't know something as a plot point, if you get what I mean. There's being an old soul who knows a lot, but it feels more like her brain was swapped with an old person, where she practically knows how to handle tragedy and has experience in anything intellectual.

I'll also say, there was one line that generally cracked me up when they were trying to replace that hamster.

Bryan: If it's good enough for Saved By The Bell, it's good enough for me!
Rocky: Mmm, I know that from watching your show

Edited by Nukerjsr, Oct 26, 2012 @ 5:10 PM.


#329

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Posted Oct 27, 2012 @ 2:52 AM

I saw a promo for the Halloween episode, featuring George Takei. I'm so there.

John Benjamin Hickey knocked that out of the park and made such a likable, one-off character.


I've recently seen him playing a bastard internet millionaire on The Good Wife, so it was kind of hard for me to just accept him as a priest.

Edited by Cress, Oct 27, 2012 @ 2:57 AM.


#330

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Posted Oct 29, 2012 @ 9:48 AM

Loved the no nana... the church thing was meh to me, whatever, if they are not religious the baby probably does not need it either, but whatever.

However I loved loved loved the scene where Bryan is praying. "what are you grateful for?" "My stuff" sly smile... those little scenes make the show for me and while we have them I will continue watching!