73 replies to this topic

[Jyn]

Hi. My one claim to fame is . . . my spiky hair.

As long as she's not there just to be the "ironic" or "different" person, I'll stomach her presence. But comparing yourself to Rob in any way is never cool in my book.

[NilesSobek]

I'm interested in seeing her try and start something with Jeff, but I doubt he'd want to work with her.

That was a pathetic display in the running part of the challenge, though. She and Katie were both pretty sucky.

[Freeoh]

I'm interested in seeing her try and start something with Jeff, but I doubt he'd want to work with her.

Looks to me like one of those early alliances that fall apart when people start to, you know, talk and stuff. Superficially they're perfect, but once he gets overbearing and alpha and Prop 8-y in Dana's presence, I can see the bloom coming off that particular rose quicksticks.

[snoopythecat]

I guess Dana didn't make much of an impression on most people, given how buried her thread has been, but I for one am bummed to see her taken out by illness. She was the toughest female on her tribe (per the men on the tribe), and it's always refreshing to see a girl who a) doesn't fit the fake-tits-and-bikini cookie cutter of most young female players and b) doesn't immediately align with a big strong guy in hopes that he'll protect her. And there's been a scarcity of openly lesbian players over the years. Of the ones we've seen before, Ami was the strongest player but a bit too close to the cookie cutter for my taste (though with a bit more upstairs than you often see with the cookie cutter), I liked Scout but she pretty much got lucky making it as far as she did, and don't get me started on Shambo (if in fact she is one of us; I don't think that's ever been officially confirmed, although the way she presents herself kind of screams it). Did I miss anyone? I was looking forward to seeing how an unconventional tomboy with spiky hair and tattoos would fit into the tribal dynamics, but what little we saw of Kalabaw before tonight was pretty much the Jeff and Jonathan Show. I'd like to know if she did try to bond with Jeff over their mutual Southern roots, only to be put off after learning he was a Prop 8 supporter.

And if Dana is going to be tagged as a quitter, I sure hope she's viewed in a similar light to Jenna Morasca (who usually gets a pass for the reason she quit) and not tagged as the wimp who couldn't tough it out with a horrible bug in incessantly miserable weather that would no doubt have compromised her immune system. It's easy for people to judge from their couches, but if I were out there in those conditions and in the level of agony she was clearly in, I almost certainly would have pulled myself from the game no matter what the doctor said. Dana was not another Osten or Janu or NaOnka who just got tired of roughing it; the impression I got was someone who was tough as nails but lacking in body mass (as Penner pointed out) and struggling with a situation beyond the standard starvation/sleep deprivation/insect bites that everyone out there has to put up with. And at a certain point, even a million dollars no longer seems worth it.

Edited by snoopythecat, Oct 18, 2012 @ 4:31 AM.

[FrogsRule]

I actually think the people who get a stomach virus or the flu or other illnesses that could be treated with meds - and aren't - get a raw deal. If someone gets a gash in their arm or leg, they get stitches. If someone sprains an ankle, they get it wrapped.

I know that Survivor's medical staff cannot act as a dispensary and hand out aspirin and Aleve, but I would certainly think that an antibiotic or anti-nausea med would be administered along with the choice to continue.

Otherwise, they need to stop giving stitches and wrapping ankles. It's a double standard.

In other words, I think Dana got ripped off. They should have given her an anti-nausea med.

[kikaha]

Jim Early claims Dana quite because she was in lust, and wanted to get close to another player who had already been ousted. Sounds like the other player had to be Angie. If true, it casts Dana in a not so favorable favorable light.

[jersey guy 87]

I actually think the people who get a stomach virus or the flu or other illnesses that could be treated with meds - and aren't - get a raw deal. If someone gets a gash in their arm or leg, they get stitches. If someone sprains an ankle, they get it wrapped.

I know that Survivor's medical staff cannot act as a dispensary and hand out aspirin and Aleve, but I would certainly think that an antibiotic or anti-nausea med would be administered along with the choice to continue.

Otherwise, they need to stop giving stitches and wrapping ankles. It's a double standard.

In other words, I think Dana got ripped off. They should have given her an anti-nausea med.

They offered Dana some degree of medical care and a chance to try and recover, she decided she wanted out. I know they've given players with cuts antibiotics during the game in the past so they're not against giving players regular meds during the game.

Jeff asked her a couple of times if she wanted to try and continue, told her that the condition wasn't life threatening and she asked to be taken out. Sorry, I don't think she got ripped off.

[NYC2007]

Jim Early claims Dana quite because she was in lust, and wanted to get close to another player who had already been ousted. Sounds like the other player had to be Angie. If true, it casts Dana in a not so favorable favorable light.

I would think that most players that go on Survivor are not regarding it as Match.com. She looked miserable. That fact was reinforced by her tribemates and the doctor. I feel sorry for her that she really didn't have an opportunity to play.

[bparhad]

Jim Early claims Dana quite because she was in lust, and wanted to get close to another player who had already been ousted. Sounds like the other player had to be Angie. If true, it casts Dana in a not so favorable favorable light.

I saw that in the spoiler thread too, and I mentioned it there, but I didn't believe it before I watched the episode, and I really don't believe it after watching it. Dana looked truly miserable and in pain, she didn't look like someone who gave up because she was "love sick" (Jim Early's words). I wish she hadn't left; I had her pegged as someone who would get decently far.

[RescueMom]

Jim Early claims Dana quite because she was in lust, and wanted to get close to another player who had already been ousted. Sounds like the other player had to be Angie. If true, it casts Dana in a not so favorable favorable light.

I would think that most players that go on Survivor are not regarding it as Match.com. She looked miserable. That fact was reinforced by her tribemates and the doctor. I feel sorry for her that she really didn't have an opportunity to play.

Jeff Probst has an interview on EW where he says that Dana was truly sick and in pain, and he flat-out says he would have left if he was in her shoes.

She looked terrible. She looked like she was suffering from the kind of sick where even when you are in your own comfy bed under a ton of blankets, you are still freezing cold and in misery. I don't blame anyone for quitting under those circumstances, and I doubt if anyone feeling that way was thinking about snuggling up with her crush.

[soymilk]

And if she had stayed she would've been the weak link in the Immunity challenge and they would have definitely lost. I know they lost anyhow but I don't think it would've even been close. Then of course she probably would've been voted out anyhow out of pity, but at least they would've only been down 1 player and not 2.

But she did look awful so I certainly don't blame her for not thinking about strategy at that point.

Edited by soymilk, Oct 18, 2012 @ 2:49 PM.

[snoopythecat]

Given how Dana was on the ground moaning in pain, I highly doubt her alleged crush on another player even entered her mind when she was deciding whether to stay or leave. If anything, she may have said something like, "Oh well, at least that hot chick who was already voted out will be there," by way of consoling herself after concluding she was in too much agony to continue. But I could see someone possibly overhearing that and extrapolating from it that her departure was partially motivated by a crush on someone at Ponderosa.

Jeff Probst has responded with nothing but sympathy. A woman made a choice to leave the game, and Probst is not condemning her as a quitter. This tells me Dana was in very, very bad shape out there, even if the footage hadn't already made that fact obvious.

I don't think she got a "raw deal" any more than Penner did when he was injured in FvF from probably the worst clusterfuck of a poor challenge design we've ever seen. But I'm bummed, because I was hoping against hope that Jim Early's spoilers were incorrect and that she'd go far in the game.

[AyerBoothe]

I'd known that she was gone pre-merge before the season, but based on how tough she was, I couldn't see how.

Now I do, and I'm sad.

It was hard to watch her moaning and crying, but based on what happened to her, it was probably just as well that she left.

It's strange that she's only the second woman to be evacuated, while eight men have been.

[ReverseFleckerl]

With her symptoms, I was honestly shocked they gave her a choice. Sudden, acute abdominal pain, diarrhea (according to Penner), fever (according to Penner and Dawson), chills, vomiting = get thee to an ER in real life, much less when you've been stuck on an island. The 12 hour wait-and-see offer blew me away completely.

[areed]

well, in real life, get some fluids in and you're probably going to be ok and not incur a major medical bill, but you're also probably not going to attempt a reality show challenge in the next few hours, which you will obviously not be up to. I doubt she needed more than IV fluids (if it was really bad), and possibly antibiotics. They may have been more concerned that if she'd actually contracted something, others would get it, too.

and she had a fever, so obviously she had something.

[snoopythecat]

AyerBoothe:

I'd known that she was gone pre-merge before the season, but based on how tough she was, I couldn't see how.

Same here. And while I'm bummed for her and wish she could have gone further, I'm also relieved it was circumstances beyond her control and not that her team took issue with a tattooed, spiky-haired, non-gender-conforming female. Especially when she was on a team where a strong male alliance formed, and despite being a tomboy, she didn't seem like the sort who easily fits right in with the boys club as a sort of honorary guy. She was the most vocal about the girls forming their own alliance and clearly felt she was being written off because of her gender. ("The worst thing you can do to a woman is underestimate her.") As much as it sucks to see her leave because of illness, I'm really glad it wasn't because, say, she got into it with Jeff Kent over Prop 8.

[Yogurt Baron]

I didn't really like Dana. She seemed determined to be the outcast, kind of like Palau Angie - so certain that she was going to be the outcast because of her "hair" (which she mentioned repeatedly in her bio and on the show---is that a code for lesbian, or is she just weirdly obsessed with her hair?) that she actually made herself something of an outcast. (I didn't sense any genuine affection for her amongst the tribe when she got sick.) Her first-episode "I want to be pals with Jeff, the big strong man" versus her Swan's-boot-episode "I'm practically a man myself!" routine suggested some...confusion, to me.

All that said, I think it's bizarre and possibly homophobic to accuse her of feigning illness due to a crush on a woman she never met. Dana was in a good, if not great, position in the game. Suggesting that she's so sex-crazed that she would throw that away just to hang out with a straight woman she'd never met...problematic.

[snoopythecat]

YogurtBaron:

I didn't really like Dana. She seemed determined to be the outcast, kind of like Palau Angie - so certain that she was going to be the outcast because of her "hair" (which she mentioned repeatedly in her bio and on the show---is that a code for lesbian, or is she just weirdly obsessed with her hair?) that she actually made herself something of an outcast. (I didn't sense any genuine affection for her amongst the tribe when she got sick.) Her first-episode "I want to be pals with Jeff, the big strong man" versus her Swan's-boot-episode "I'm practically a man myself!" routine suggested some...confusion, to me.

I hadn't really noticed a particular lack of affection for her among her tribe--I thought they seemed very supportive and caring--but then, I'm not the best person in the world at reading people (which is why I'd make a horrible Survivor player even if I could handle the elements). As far as her hair and that sense of "confusion"...well, I wouldn't be surprised if Dana's had a hard time of it, not so much because she's a lesbian as because she's a butch, non-gender-conforming lesbian. The hair may indeed be significant for her; I know that for many butch lesbians, cutting their hair short is an important step in embracing their identity, particularly if they came from the sort of background where girls were under strong pressure to wear their hair long. I lean more toward the femme end of the lesbian spectrum myself, but I've known butch girls who said it felt unnatural for them to wear their hair long or wear feminine clothes. One even compared the latter to being dressed in drag. I think some butch lesbians do experience a hint of gender blurring, though not to the degree that they're going to cut off their boobs or change the F to an M on their driver's license. A lot of them identify more with the opposite gender (similar to how Colton initially felt more comfortable in the girls' camp last season).

In any case, those of us who more easily fit the societal expectations of our biological gender may not notice so much, but there is a LOT of pressure on both men and women to conform to specific sets of gender norms. For whatever reason, it throws a lot of people for a loop when a woman displays masculine traits or vice versa. Not too long ago, I read something about negative comments being directed at German Chancellor Angela Merkel over the pantsuits she wears. Yes, it's 2012 and some people are still uncomfortable with women wearing pants. And while women usually can carry off short hair or tattoos these days, there are still a lot of people who are put off by a woman with the particular sort of spiky short haircut and/or the number and placement of tattoos that Dana has. The comparison to Palau Angie is a good one, although the tribe dynamics among Kalabaw seem quite different from the hapless Ulong. I think both women were painfully aware of their potential to stick out like a sore thumb, although Angie seemed more crippled by it in the beginning than Dana. And considering Dana went from talking about a potential Texas alliance with Jeff Kent to being all, "The worst thing you can do to a woman is underestimate her," I'm guessing she felt out the men and sensed they were more interested in a sausage fest. Whether it was because of Jeff Kent's documented anti-gay beliefs or because they wrote her off as useless based on the fact that, for all her tomboyish toughness, she has a physique many feminine girls are starving themselves to attain, it seems apparent that she felt excluded from the boys club. Her best hope was to rally with the girls to form a counter alliance, and that's exactly what she was doing when she fell ill.

[enlightenedbum]

With her symptoms, I was honestly shocked they gave her a choice. Sudden, acute abdominal pain, diarrhea (according to Penner), fever (according to Penner and Dawson), chills, vomiting = get thee to an ER in real life, much less when you've been stuck on an island. The 12 hour wait-and-see offer blew me away completely.

Eliza has said (and did again this week) that she was in much worse shape (104 degree fever!!!) than what we saw of Dana, and was actually recommended to withdraw by medical but refused as long as it wasn't life threatening.

[FrogsRule]

They offered Dana some degree of medical care and a chance to try and recover, she decided she wanted out. I know they've given players with cuts antibiotics during the game in the past so they're not against giving players regular meds during the game.

Jeff asked her a couple of times if she wanted to try and continue, told her that the condition wasn't life threatening and she asked to be taken out. Sorry, I don't think she got ripped off.

jersey guy, I don't blame her for choosing to leave, not even a little bit. But heavy duty anti-nausea meds work fast and last long. And in the episode thread, someone noted that Lex had been given an IV in Survivor Africa. Why was Dana only given the choice of hydrating on her own?

If they are going to intervene more drastically for things like cuts, gashes, and sprains, then they should have given Dana the anti-nausea shot, hooked her up to an IV for an hour, and then asked her if she wanted to stay.

Either that, or the next time someone gets a big old gash (hi Skupin!), they should have to quit if they opt to get stitches.

All of that said, I realize that it's Probst-and-Burnett's game. They can make the rules, and they can change the rules. Their whims are the final decision. They pay for it, so it's their right. But I feel sorry for Dana, because with a little more medical attention, she would have felt better fast (exactly what Jeff Probst said!), and probably would have stayed.

Which in turn would have changed the entire tenor of the game. Even if she were still voted out as the weakest link, the tribe would be down only one, and not two players.

[jersey guy 87]

jersey guy, I don't blame her for choosing to leave, not even a little bit. But heavy duty anti-nausea meds work fast and last long. And in the episode thread, someone noted that Lex had been given an IV in Survivor Africa. Why was Dana only given the choice of hydrating on her own?

If they are going to intervene more drastically for things like cuts, gashes, and sprains, then they should have given Dana the anti-nausea shot, hooked her up to an IV for an hour, and then asked her if she wanted to stay.

In her post-show interviews she said she spent four days in the hospital receiving fluids and antibiotics before she started to feel better and that she had been sick from essentially day 1. She talk about blacking out leaning against trees and throwing up constantly. I'm not sure there's anything the medical staff could have done for her while she was on the island that would have changed her condition. Dana herself said that she knew she had to leave in order to get better.

[neplusultra]

I had never heard anything about this accusation of a crush, and I liked Dana fine. I'm certainly not homophobic: I'm straight, but consider myself an LGBT ally.

So those caveats aside: I think she was faking (that is, exaggerating), not because of any of that but simply because she looked and talked like she was faking/exaggerating, and because of what the doctor said. People have been saying in this thread that she had a fever, but I think the doctor would have mentioned it if she did actually have one. Everything the doctor said could be paraphrased as:

"She reports tummy pain, but I don't find any sign of infection or anything seriously wrong with her. My recommendation is for her to drink some water and hang in there."

And she looked sheepish while lying there (previously I think she stayed under the blanket to make it look more serious while not having to act out symptoms in front of the camera and her tribemates), and sort of lamely offered the excuse that "it comes and goes".

[bosawks]

All that said, I think it's bizarre and possibly homophobic to accuse her of feigning illness due to a crush on a woman she never met. Dana was in a good, if not great, position in the game. Suggesting that she's so sex-crazed that she would throw that away just to hang out with a straight woman she'd never met...problematic.

I would think you would want to be stone cold positive before you spread that kind of information about another person.

Given the circumstances of the way it played out upon viewing and the fact that Jeff Probst, of all people, is defending her the most charitable description I can come up with for this guy is complete and utter jackass. But it certainly leaves me wondering if he does have the proverbial axe to grind, at the very least dude sounds like a prick.

[Thumper82003]

Given the report of being hospitalized for 4 days, the report of a fever, IMO, she wasn't faking. Many of the past Survivors have returned with GI bugs like Giardia that took months to get rid of after their stint in Survivor. IIRC, Sandra turned down All Stars because she hadn't recovered from stomach problems in her first season.
Jeff's lack of calling her a "quitter" tells me she looked even worse than we saw.If she were to wait until she was in Russell's shape (severe dehydration to the point of collapse)would we be saying anything about her faking? Without getting better, she wouldn't have lasted in the game, but picked off as a weak link. She wouldn't have been able to perform in the challenges. Look at her in the reward challenge: she was bent over holding her stomach.

[snoopythecat]

I've read/heard a couple of postmortem interviews from Dana, and she said she was sick from day one and tried her best to conceal it from the tribe (though not very successfully, according to Dawson) until it became unbearable. By the time she made the call to leave, she felt fairly sure she wasn't going to get any better while out in the elements. However, although she did spend four days in the hospital recovering with antibiotics, she also mentioned that, once she got on the boat, the medics gave her some sort of shot that brought almost instant relief from the pain. At that point, she was wishing they could turn the boat around. Going back to what FrogsRule was saying, why the hell couldn't they give her this shot while she was still in the game if other players have been given IV fluids, antiseptic for cuts, etc., in the past? Surely the producers would prefer that medevacs, whether by the doctor's call or the player's, be as few and farther between as possible. This is the second season in a row that it looks like someone was medevaced who might have been able to stay with some simple treatment administered on site. (Not that I'm complaining about Colton being removed from my screen prematurely; at the same time, it would have removed any "Oh, she wouldn't have had such an easy path to the win if Colton had stuck around!" asterisk some people might be inclined to place next to Kim's name.)

YogurtBaron:

All that said, I think it's bizarre and possibly homophobic to accuse her of feigning illness due to a crush on a woman she never met. Dana was in a good, if not great, position in the game. Suggesting that she's so sex-crazed that she would throw that away just to hang out with a straight woman she'd never met...problematic.

I meant to comment on this earlier. Not just problematic, but downright offensive. Why do some straight people seem to believe that, while they themselves can and (one would hope) usually do control their urges, gay people must have absolutely zero self-control? Newsflash to Jim Early: we're often compelled to have more self-control in situations where we're not sure how our feelings would be received, because the potential consequences cam more severe. A person who makes an unwelcome heterosexual advance might get rebuffed (or slapped, depending how aggressive the advance was); a person who makes an unwelcome same-sex advance may risk being defamed and ostracized by their peers (and, in the case of men, beaten up). Frankly, Dana's ability to behave herself around a girl who doesn't reciprocate her attraction is probably better than yours, Mr. Early.

[kikaha]

There's another interesting twist to the Dana love rumor. I read the other day that Jim Early got his spoiler info this season in large part from Angie. i.e. the story that Dana in part dropped out due to love/lust may have come from the alleged object of that love herself.

Make of it what you will...

[EggMan]

Tough? She didn't look very tough to me. Tough means more than a lip ring and some attitude. Everybody else was fine. She was a wreck. I didn't see 'tough'.

[FrogsRule]

However, although she did spend four days in the hospital recovering with antibiotics, she also mentioned that, once she got on the boat, the medics gave her some sort of shot that brought almost instant relief from the pain. At that point, she was wishing they could turn the boat around. Going back to what FrogsRule was saying, why the hell couldn't they give her this shot while she was still in the game if other players have been given IV fluids, antiseptic for cuts, etc., in the past? Surely the producers would prefer that medevacs, whether by the doctor's call or the player's, be as few and farther between as possible. This is the second season in a row that it looks like someone was medevaced who might have been able to stay with some simple treatment administered on site.

snoopythecat, thanks for the additional information! I feel so strongly about this (and the fact that the shot would have made her feel better immediately) because I saw it in my 76-year-old mother. When she was admitted to the hospital for other things back in August, the thing that made her amenable to going to the hospital was that she had been throwing up and was utterly nauseous.

They gave her the aforementioned shot - a single shot! - and within five minutes, she was feeling much better.

And not to belabor the point (I will shut up after this), but the move really, really hurt her tribe as well. Even if she had made them lose the IC - and that could have been the case, because she would have been weak still - they would've been down only one. Not two.

ETA: I can just about guarantee you that the shot was simply an anti-nausea shot, perhaps mixed with an antiobiotic. Nothing fancy.

Edited by FrogsRule, Oct 20, 2012 @ 1:35 AM.

[loki567]

There's another interesting twist to the Dana love rumor. I read the other day that Jim Early got his spoiler info this season in large part from Angie. i.e. the story that Dana in part dropped out due to love/lust may have come from the alleged object of that love herself.

Which still really means nothing. I mean it could be as simple as Dana hit on Angie in sequester and Angie runs back to Early, "She was so in love with me, she dropped out of the game to be with me!" Still really wouldn't prove that Dana dropped because of love-sickness or whatever. And I generally like Angie, I hope she had more brains than that.

[snoopythecat]

loki567:

Which still really means nothing. I mean it could be as simple as Dana hit on Angie in sequester and Angie runs back to Early, "She was so in love with me, she dropped out of the game to be with me!" Still really wouldn't prove that Dana dropped because of love-sickness or whatever. And I generally like Angie, I hope she had more brains than that.

Perhaps its Angie who's guilty of the assumption that gay people are sex fiends with no self control. Or perhaps Dana simply paid her a heartfelt compliment in regard to her physical appearance and Angie's ego grew three sizes that day. Unless Angie reports that Dana's behavior toward her in sequester was downright Dawsonian, I don't see any reason to believe she was booty-blinded (as Malcolm would say) into leaving the game.