140 replies to this topic

[DoctorDogBoy]

A lot of emotional highs and lows this episode.

[DoctorDogBoy]

Screwed up the other post title.

Let us begin.

[Princess Aldrea]

I don't think I was supposed to like Mac's ex but I was rooting for him when he was telling Mac off. Mac is still awful and unprofessional.

[jessied112]

First and farmost, can I ask why the hell Maggie looked so upset at the end of the episode? She's upset because Don went out with other women when they were broken up? So, I'm guessing that they're pretty much over, not that I can blame Don. She was practically seething with jealousy at the end when Lisa kissed Jim- WHILE DON WAS IN THE ROOM! Jesus Christ, Maggie is really insufferable for me.

Mackenzie, however, isn't as insufferable as she used to be. But figures that the power would come on after her speech. Although I did love Emily Mortimer's acting there. "SON OF A BITCH!" But can we move on from Love Triangle of Doom?

Why did Will suddenly look incompetent with pants? I genuinely don't get it.

Best line of the night though? "Eat me."

The Neal/Sloan troll subplot was stupid, but it did actually lead to something. I was afraid the episode would end with the troll who sent the death threat to appear in Will's house or something because of Neal pretending to be the hacker. Although I guess it could still happen.

That's all I can really process right now.

[Princess Aldrea]

Why does Jim think Mac is a good person to take romantic advice from? And poor Lisa! She deserves more and better friends than Maggie. Also, since when isn't Don in love with her? There is a plane full of people who would say otherwise.

And where, exactly, was Lisa going during that interview? Did she have a kid or something? Was she a child like that? Did she just want to show the world her feelings on abortion?

[DoctorDogBoy]

Lisa said something incredibly stupid on air, the kind of things people ramble about in private or with their friends when they're not thinking.

[NarrativeGirl]

It took me a moment of reflection before I got a sense of Don's motivation for confessing to Maggie. Somehow, I didn't immediately get that Don's realization that Jim came to talk to Maggie, not Lisa, was a fear that Jim was going to tattle on Don. My gut instinct was that he thought Jim was coming to woo Maggie. (Though I can see how, to Don, tattling on Don might have been an effective wooing strategy.)

As annoying as some of the acting can be, Jeff Daniels really sold it to me when we got that reaction shot of Will looking at Mac, just after her in-the-darkness rant.

[BoDiva]

I expected Maggie to find the card in Don's pocket. They made a big enough deal of his putting it there.

I'm sure prior episodes have brought this up in the forums, but I'm not usually on epi threads. It's been illegal to smoke in a workplace in NYC since 1989. The idea that Will lights up in his office all the time is ludicrous. I've been in situations where building management has come down on a corporate tenant for not enforcing that rule. You don't even need a staff member to whistle blow. The janitorial staff, who work for the building, not the tenant, are required to report.

[Pallas429]

It took me a moment of reflection before I got a sense of Don's motivation for confessing to Maggie. Somehow, I didn't immediately get that Don's realization that Jim came to talk to Maggie, not Lisa, was a fear that Jim was going to tattle on Don.

Very interesting take, NarrativeGirl. My take was that Don impulsively decided to come clean with Maggie, inspired by several things: his own bravery earlier that day; his respect for Will's stance and by extension, his respect for Will's opinion; and in the spirit of Jim's choosing to gather his rosebuds at midnight -- which (Don believed) was prompted by the rosebuds now gathering dust in Will's office.

But I see that I may have projected onto Don my own impulses. I think you're right. Don wasn't inspired; he was panicked. Which I don't mind and which doesn't turn me against him: Don remains the character who most resembles a person.

Sadly, Emily Mortimer's manic delivery of Mac's St. Crispin's Day speech made me agree with Mac that she is really an older version of Maggie. I'm surprised it didn't fall as flat with the troops as Maggie's Bachmann oration.

[catrina]

BoDiva I mention the smoking thing every Sunday night on Twitter but I didn't know the specifics of it being outlawed by the city since 1989. I know Aaron Sorkin loves Goodnight and Good Luck but that's no excuse for a detail that everyone knows is wrong and takes us out of the "drama" everytime it's on screen.

[thuganomics85]

I am so confused. So, Don dated, perhaps slepted, with another woman during one of his and Maggie's break-ups. I get that part, but this whole thing with this woman who sent him flowers is confusing me. I guess it is bad that he didn't tell the woman it's over, but I got the impression he thought it was just a one-night stand/rebound kind of thing and seemed surprised over it. Are they trying to say he was leading that woman on while still dating Maggie? Because Maggie was acting like he pulled a Mackenzie or something. I just... you know, fuck it. I don't care. Just break up, guys. Maggie clearly wants Jim and Jim wants her for some dumbass reason, so just free Don.

Dev Patel and Olivia Munn are the only reasons I don't flat-out despise the troll plot. Those two have a decent rapport and chemistry with one another. But I just find it silly. Neal wants to use Sloan as his target because he didn't want to just troll someone he didn't know? If that's the issue, he doesn't have to pick one. You don't just have to troll certain, single people. You can provoke reactions by trolling ideas, sport teams, movies, etc; why doesn't Neal just do that if he feels uncomfortable attacking a person who isn't a colleague? Is it because this troll community won't accept it, unless it's a person? I just feel like not much effort has been put into this plot.

I can't believe everyone was that stunned over the RNC guy not liking the debate format. It doesn't matter if they are right; I personally agree with them that debates should have more substance and harder questions, and not be full of a bunch of soft-ball and stupid questions like what I see now; but they should have been prepared for he possibility that the RNC would not be down with exposing the fact so many of their candidates are idiots. It's politics; these days, everyone is dodging questions and taking the easy way out. I did like both Don and Sloan telling them to shove it after they dropped Will.

I still really dislike Mackenzie, but damn, Emily Mortimer really looked like she was about to pop a blood vessel during her yelling scenes. At least she's giving it her all, I guess. Too bad I still find Mac preachy and unlikable.

No matter how cliched or silly his scenes were (the pants scene especially), Jeff Daniels was on fire tonight. Whatever issues I have with the Will character, Jeff is owning whatever is thrown at him.

[3 is enough]

Best part of the whole episode was the montage at the end and Amy Winehouse singing.

[whatchootalking]

BoDiva I mention the smoking thing every Sunday night on Twitter but I didn't know the specifics of it being outlawed by the city since 1989. I know Aaron Sorkin loves Goodnight and Good Luck but that's no excuse for a detail that everyone knows is wrong and takes us out of the "drama" everytime it's on screen.

I don't know if it's gotten more stringent in the last say seven, eight years, but this has absolutely not been universal since the ban and well after (the idea that no building will allow it).

I know with 100% certainty that a certain prominent talking head smoked like a freaking chimney in his particular office, and despite the smoke-retention systems employed, smoke regularly billowed out from beneath his office door.

At least as of the time period I indicated, if you swung a big enough line, I can assure you that at least one workplace in NYC was willing to flout this rule.

[Brian C]

It took me a moment of reflection before I got a sense of Don's motivation for confessing to Maggie. Somehow, I didn't immediately get that Don's realization that Jim came to talk to Maggie, not Lisa, was a fear that Jim was going to tattle on Don. My gut instinct was that he thought Jim was coming to woo Maggie. (Though I can see how, to Don, tattling on Don might have been an effective wooing strategy.)

Oh yeah, definitely that was Don's motivation there. I really liked that aspect of it all, that we have seen Don screw with Jim in the past (having Maggie call Jim when Don knows Jim is with Lisa) and therefore Don cannot imagine that Jim would not do the same thing if he was in his shoes. It was a very nice touch.

The troll storyline is quite silly, but what was especially silly was the way Sloan reacted to Neal's suggestion. She acted like he had not just made the exact same suggestion one day earlier. Very weird.

[Princess Aldrea]

Somehow, I didn't immediately get that Don's realization that Jim came to talk to Maggie, not Lisa, was a fear that Jim was going to tattle on Don.

Since Don has the card, though, and Will got rid of the flowers why is he so worried? If Jim made unsubstantiated claims and Don denied them, does he really think Maggie would believe Jim over him?

[CK1Czar]

I loved this episode. The montage at the end was well done. For once, the love quad between Lisa/Maggie/Don/Jim became slightly interesting at the end. Will be sad to have the end of season one when it just started to become compelling

[Brian C]

Since Don has the card, though, and Will got rid of the flowers why is he so worried? If Jim made unsubstantiated claims and Don denied them, does he really think Maggie would believe Jim over him?

Why would Jim make up something like that?

I mean, it wouldn't hold up as evidence in court or anything like that, but I am sure that it would be pretty darn convincing for Maggie. She knows Jim well enough to know he's not going to lie to her about something so big.

[Princess Aldrea]

Why would Jim make up something like that?

Well, he does want to be with Maggie and she won't break up with Don despite the fact it's been about a year and a half at this point.

I felt terrible for Lisa. She spent weeks trying not to let a guy she wanted to be with win her back and having Maggie try to talk her into it as well. And then when she finally gave in, Jim was there to break up Maggie's relationship. And he didn't even have the decency to let Lisa know that a renewed relationship was off the table first.

[RachelKM]

I know Don took it as Jim was coming to tattle, but are we supposed to think so too? I thought that Jim and Mack were talking about Lisa and how he'd given up; so I thought the "Gather ye roses" crap was about Lisa. I got the impression it was only the "Maggie convinced me" part that made Jim look over at her and notice Maggie was on the verge of vomiting while trying to look supportive. At that point Jim looked uncomfortable.

That may have been my wishful thinking because I: 1) like Lisa so much more than pretty much everyone on this show with the exception of Sloan (even Neal sometimes grates with his Bigfoot shit), 2) want to like Jim, and 3) as a result of 1 & 2, desperately want Jim to get the fuck over Maggie the insufferable.

Seriously, Lisa desreves so much better than this shit. And Maggie is just sorta terrible in every way. On the personal front, she uses Jim and a emotional emergency flotaion device, Lisa as a dating surrogate/place holder (and also emotionally blackmails her into being a guest), and moons over Jim in Don's presence. On a professional front, she's been insubordinate, unprofessional, and frequently incompetent.

As to the rest of this episode, I'm of two minds on the debate thing. On the one hand, I agree that political debates, particulalry this last year but in general, have become a joke as far as allowing candidates to use it as a stump speech permitting evasive and sometimes completely off topic responses without follow up and/or softballs only. On the other hand, it is inconceivable that Will or anyone else on that team thought they were going to get that much of a flogging through for a primary debate sponsered by the RNC for their own candidates (the DNC wouldn't do it either). At least it wasn't such a fairytale that it got approved, but fuck me they look like idiots for spending the last episode and a half burning all that credibility capital on such a completely futile project.

Edited by RachelKM, Aug 20, 2012 @ 2:18 AM.

[Brian C]

Well, he does want to be with Maggie and she won't break up with Don despite the fact it's been about a year and a half at this point.

I felt terrible for Lisa. She spent weeks trying not to let a guy she wanted to be with win her back and having Maggie try to talk her into it as well. And then when she finally gave in, Jim was there to break up Maggie's relationship. And he didn't even have the decency to let Lisa know that a renewed relationship was off the table first.

But that's the thing, I don't believe that is why Jim was there. That's what Don thinks Jim was there for, but Jim was actually there for Lisa.

It is just that when Maggie confronts Lisa with what Don told her, all you know what will hit the fan and Jim will likely end up with Maggie.

But yeah, Lisa is really screwed in this whole thing (as an aside, how absurd was it for Jim to interfere with her job today? That was Neal-level of dumb).

I know Don took it as Jim was coming to tattle, but are we supposed to think so too? I Thought that Jim and Mack were talking about Lisa and how he'd given up; so I thought the "Gather ye roses" crap was about Lisa. I got the impression it was only the "Maggie convinced me" part that made Jim look up and at her and notice Maggie was on the verge of vomiting while trying to look supportive. At that point Jim looked uncomfortable.

Lisa had to be the reason he went there. Mack's speech wouldn't make sense if it was about Maggie, so yes, I do believe we're to believe that Don was wrong about why Jim was there.

Edited by Brian C, Aug 20, 2012 @ 2:04 AM.

[thuganomics85]

On the other hand, it is inconceivable that Will or anyone else on that team thought they were going to get that much of a flogging through for a primary debate sponsered by the RNC for there own candidates (the DNC wouldn't do it either). At least it wasn't such a fairtale that it got a pproved, but fuck me they look like idiots for spending the last episode and a half burning all that credibility capital on such a completely futile project.

Exactly. I just can't figure out why they were so stunned over it. And it just makes them (mainly Will and Charlie) come off stupid for agreeing to cover the more gossipy news, for an idea that really was never going to work. I get bucking the system, but that idea probably at less then a 10% chance of working.

Oh, and of course Lisa ends up being a former classmate of Casey Anthony. This gang sure does managed to always be associated with people that play parts in the current news story.

[pleonasm]

Sorkin's America!! Where you are literally two degrees away from knowing any other citizen in the country. It was a contrived plot device in the pilot and now I just roll my eyes and speculate on what outlandish inane connection Tess or Don will have next season to McKayla Maroney or Paul Ryan.

This really was a painful hour of television to sit through. More hysterical rants from Mack, the Republican Mock debate nonsense (how much time and/or overtime was Mack paying the staff to simulate a mock debate that a 0.0001% chance of actually happening?), and my least favorite ongoing storyline... the Maggie/Jim/Don triangle. Technically a square with Lisa.

Was I really supposed to cheer for Don and Sloane as they rejected the offers for a more traditional debate? Sigh...

One more and then I'm done forever.

[Princess Aldrea]

Oh, and of course Lisa ends up being a former classmate of Casey Anthony. This gang sure does managed to always be associated with people that play parts in the current news story.

At least this time even Mac wanted to strangle her.

(how much time and/or overtime was Mack paying the staff to simulate a mock debate that a 0.0001% chance of actually happening?),

I don't think that this was such a hardship since apparently the kind of news that they were doing at the time required very little effort.

Why was Neal so fixated on trolling about Sloan? Why not, say, troll about Will? He's an easy target and if he knows that Neal doesn't really think that then nobody would care.

The absolute best part of the episode was when Will was asking who was freaked out by Mac's "We're a team!" speech and Don unabashedly raised his hand and kept it there. I was raising my hand right along with him.

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Aug 20, 2012 @ 11:28 AM.

[TwizzWhizz11]

The way I took the scene at the apartment:

Jim went there for Lisa. Don interrupted Jim before he could say anything because he was afraid Jim was coming to talk to Maggie.
When Jim saw Don, he was uncomfortable because he knew Don's secret. He probably felt awkward, knowing that and knowing that Don was there, hanging out with Maggie and keeping it from her. I don't think Jim had any intention of tattling on Don to Maggie or anything. But he still felt that discomfort when talking to Lisa, which was probably why it may have come off to some people as him coming to declare his love for Maggie after talking to Mac. But I think it was mostly the fact that he knew what was up with Don.

Overall, the episode was...meh. They've had a good run with the past few, so it was disappointing to not see the 'streak' continue.

Emily Mortimer's overacting bugged me a lot this episode. Her 'We're a Team' speech that culminating in her freak-out when the power turned back on was definitely cringe-worthy, as was her final talk with Will when she just became increasingly screechy and unintelligible. I actually had to watch that part twice (as much as it pained me) because I tuned out the first time and was afraid I missed something poignant there. But there wasn't anything.

I really like Lisa, her indiscretion during the interview not included. I like how their little plan backfired a bit with her - shows that you can't always be all high and mighty and smug. I think I like Jim and Lisa together, but I know it will never last. It's just a roadblock for the inevitable Jim/Maggie pairing.

I like that Neal is actually getting some more airtime because I love Dev Patel, but a trolling story? I guess they had to loop it back to Will's very scary death threat. I liked the exchanges between him and Sloan though - they're a good pair.

In terms of the debate - it's mostly been said. Yes, that format would be admirable and we ideally should have debates like them. But it came off as a showboat for Will and of course the RNC would never agree to that grilling format because, IMO, most of their primary candidates this cycle would never stand up to that pressure. I know the timeline didn't allow for it, but I would have liked to see the format done with a different mix of candidates. The merit of the central idea of the debate was lost because the candidates looked like idiots, not because the debate was flawed. Don's 'Eat me' was great.

I always wonder about Don - he seems to spend a lot of time on News Night for being an EP for another show. Shouldn't he be working on that show all day? I think he was going to stay for a little bit to help the transition, but it's been almost a year and a half.

As much I love to hate on this show, I'm a little sad it's ending for a while in a week.

[thuganomics85]

The absolute best part of the episode was when Will was asking who was freaked out by Mac's "We're a team!" speech and Don unabashedly raised his hand and kept it there. I was raising my hand right along with him.

I thought that was him, but wasn't sure. That was pretty hilarious. I love Don; flaws and all.

Why was Neal so fixated on trolling about Sloan? Why not, say, troll about Will? He's an easy target and if he knows that Neal doesn't really think that than nobody would care.

Will probably wouldn't have minded, but maybe Neal wasn't comfortable trolling his boss. And it seemed like part of the reason was not just because of Sloan herself, but whatever website he went to, he made it sound like there was one of the more well-rounded, mature ones, that would take a lot of effort to cause everyone to lose their shit. I guess it's possible there wasn't any Will sites that would gain him that "respect." But really, I'm just speculating. As I said before, I just don't feel like much thought was put into this bit. It just seems like a reason to a) attack the internet and b) wacky hijinks were Sloan gets pissed at Neal, while he gets nervous over it. Which, once again, great job to Olivia and Dev for at least rising above the material. I wish certain other ones could do the same (hello, Allison Pill! You use to be so awesome; why are you so bad, here?)

Maybe they couldn't get the actor for this episode, but I wonder why RNC guy didn't ask Elliot. I guess by asking Don he was trying to make him ask Elliot for them, but I would think he'd contact Elliot himself, if they really wanted to get ACN on the debate.

[Jeremywilms]

I don't think I was supposed to like Mac's ex but I was rooting for him when he was telling Mac off. Mac is still awful and unprofessional.

I HATED Mac's ex. I really really do. I am counting the days until he leaves. With that said, I don't think the shows directory has done enough with his character to warrent him leaving, so I fear some dumb sub-plot is going to rise.

This entire episode was great, the end really got me laughing (where Will is at his desk on that website.) I appreciate how it is a moving part of the episode, but I also find it hilarious that Will's character would be on the website.

I thought that Jim was actually there to talk to Maggie's friend, but when they left and don started speaking, I started to think that Jim was there for Maggie.

If there is some sub-plot between Mac and her Ex (not Will) just to drag on the romance story between will and Mac I will freak out. I hate it when a tv series does stuff like that.

[retrograde85]

The thing that bugged me about the RNC debate (apart from the obvious that it was never going to be approved; I can buy Will not seeing that because he thought his old friend would side with him and even Mack because she thinks everything Will does is amazing and she's an idiot, but not one of the staffers questioned the concept?) was that because they use "real" people and events and footage on the show, you knew from the get-go that it wasn't going to happen because it just wouldn't have been feasible within the constraints of the show. So for two episodes, there was no doubt about how this plot would end.

I liked Lisa's storyline this episode. As a journalist, I'm always shocked at how many people jump at the chance to speak to us on the record when there's really nothing in it for them. It's so hard-wired into people that being on TV/radio/print is a good, even flattering, thing, people often surprise me by agreeing to do interviews with me even I don't think they should. So I liked that Lisa refused (at first) and reconized she added zero to the conversation, and that -- unfortunate as they were -- we saw some consequences to what she said. Although it's against my own interests to say, here's a PSA: Never talk to journalists -- not the serious ones, anyway -- unless you have a really, really good reason to. We are not your friends. We just want your quote/soundbite. And when you screw up and say something silly like Lisa did (and you probably will if we do our jobs well and you've never this before), everyone is going to hear or read it and it will have real-life ramifications for you.

Speaking of journalists, I quite liked Mack's ex in the end. I was kind of unclear on what was on/off the record in his observations, but I laughed when Will said "Just tell the truth" (or whatever it was). Dude, if he told the truth about what he saw, it would not look good for you. So far, this guy has zero proof of your conspiracy theory about your boss and the tabloids and dozens of first-hand observations of you doing crummy journalism and being a jerk. Sure, the investigative piece would be the better one but also super difficult to prove and way more work. If I were unemployed and had just wasted a bunch of time doing some ludicrous "trial" for an article (and the subjects of the article had been such dicks to me), I know which I'd write.

Edited by retrograde85, Aug 20, 2012 @ 4:39 AM.

[Breaker]

Personally, I am amazed that there are people connecting with this half-baked nonsense. Every time it gives me something to like, it gives me two others that set my teeth on edge.

Whole passages of time dissolve into blurry recollections of Jim/Maggie/Don/Lisa going in circles about their love lives. Mackenzie rants and loses her mind for so long that I am pretty sure she's going to be revealed to have PTSD or something. Will and Mackenzie's entire relationship woes are even worse than a straight-up flashback, because it has to be explained to the audience ad nauseam by characters in the present, like the psychologist or the reporter.

And aside from these vast wastelands of idiocy there are cringeworthy wtf moments that punctuate them. Sloan giving an f you to the GOP guy, Lisa's bizarre abortion rant, the idea that Maggie would know something who personally knows Casey Anthony.

This show has now joined The Walking Dead as one of the few shows where I think the quality of the actual show is weaker than the opening credits.

[Milburn Stone]

So, I guess Michelle Bachmann thinking she hears the voice of God is a little less ridiculous, now that we know that Mac actually believes God turned off the power in her building in order to make her newscast better.

Or at least we know that these people aren't in a position to judge Michelle Bachmann for her beliefs. I wonder if, while watching Mac's speech, Maggie had that thought occur to her.

The mock debate was the one moment in the show to date that I unreservedly said to myself, "You know, TV news would be better if it were like that." Most of the time when Newsroom shows us Will and Mac doing their kind of news it does come off like being told to eat our vegetables, but this mock debate was flat-out the way these debates really ought to be. They'd be better television as well as being better for the country. And, ironically, better for the political parties, as Will knew and Adam Arkin was able to see.

[TorontoFan]

Ah, I've always loved Adam Arkin. But that Republican Party guy nailed it...the mock debate was just a chance for Will to show off. That being said, I really would like to hear Michelle Bachman's response as to how God sounds.

I'm not liking what they are doing to Sloan's character. Why can't you just have a bright, educated woman sound rational and composed. I know...not in Sorkin-land. They have to all be bat-shit crazy.

Someone will have to explain to me what the stuff with Neal about the death threats meant. Neither MrTorontoFan or I understood what it was that he figured out. I'm blaming that on watching it late in the evening after a very busy weekend.

I'm a fan of romance and "chick-flic" movies, and even I am tired of the Jim/Maggie will they-won't they story line. Was Maggie really fondling that delivery note in bed with Don? Somebody drops a bombshell like that and you don't send him packing? That is just so wildly out of character for her. Again..Sorkin writing for women.