407 replies to this topic

[FrogsRule]

Since snowbunny's thread seems to have disappeared (I went back twelve pages to May 2012 and it wasn't there), starting this. Oops, commercial's over. Later!

[foodle]

Hmmm, still up in the air about this show. I think my main problem is that the characters that were annoying in the Closer (Raydor, Taylor) are still just as annoying here, have effectively won (promoted, Brenda gone, plea bargains galore, rules and more rules), and no longer have their primary foil (Brenda). Flynn and Provenza are trying to fill those shoes, but we're so used to them being supporting characters that it's hard to see them as the primary pro/an-tagonists.

The new female detective is also beyond annoying. And the Raydor/Rusty relationship is just too forced.

Some good elements remain, and the members of the team are as entertaining as ever (Tao's deadpan "Ok ..." on the phone was great), but I'm not sure if this show will be able to solidify into a standalone show instead of a very extended epilogue.

[taiko]

I don't get trying to be topical with new chief/LAPD politics and the like but then ignore the current death penalty politics. I almost expected the soldier to laugh at the threat of the needle. In the end his locked up life will probably be just the same death row or supermax at one of the other state prisons

[foodle]

My primary gripe with MC is that the new primary mission of the squad (get plea bargains, save money) is a complete betrayal of Brenda's principles (justice for the victims at all costs). We, the audience, bought into Brenda's viewpoint and so MC also feels like a betrayal of our principles. I don't want to spend an hour a week watching Taylor and Raydor spit on Brenda's memory/legacy.

[FrogsRule]

I was surprised that the first episode of Major Crimes felt so ragged. I would have expected a more "finished" product, since we know almost all the characters. MC shouldn't have to spend time on back stories (except for Raydor), since we have these characters' back stories nearly memorized. So they shouldn't have had the usual freshman issues. But I felt like they did.

Wish they had waited till next week to introduce Sykes. I think she will be good, add a bit of non-Provenza humor to the mix.

Me: That was a good article, Z. I'm wondering if the lingering resentment implied by the article comes from one or two on the squad who feel they should have been promoted to Brenda's job? I.E., not Provenza, but maybe Flynn?

Well, I was half-right... The lingering resentment came from Provenza's thinking he should have been (or rather, had been) promoted to Brenda's job.

[Enero]

The new female detective is also beyond annoying. And the Raydor/Rusty relationship is just too forced

I thought she was the best thing about the show. She was lively and thus interesting - a breath of fresh air. Everyone else was dull as dishwater. I don't doubt that MM can knock it out the park when necessary, but here she was just boring. Her low key presence and monotone voice wasn't helping matters either. The rest of the crew seemed to be working way too hard to fill the gap left behind by Brenda which made things feel forced. And I too laughed when the soldier was threatened with the death penalty considering the state of the DP in California. I'm just not seeing how they are going to create suspense and tension and excitement with this show. As stated before, watching the team plead out cases is not an interesting concept.

I'll give the show another episode in hopes that last night they were just working through the kinks that comes with a new show. However if things don't significantly improvement next week I'll be moving on.

Edited by Enero, Aug 14, 2012 @ 3:16 AM.

[CatsWithAxes]

My primary gripe with MC is that the new primary mission of the squad (get plea bargains, save money) is a complete betrayal of Brenda's principles (justice for the victims at all costs). We, the audience, bought into Brenda's viewpoint and so MC also feels like a betrayal of our principles. I don't want to spend an hour a week watching Taylor and Raydor spit on Brenda's memory/legacy.

I, as a member of that audience, didn't buy into Brenda's viewpoint as anything other than the viewpoint of the main character on a TV show that I happened to like a lot. I don't feel "betrayed" at all. That character is gone now, and the next main character will possibly have a different viewpoint. That's totally fine with me, as long as the writers keep the show entertaining and engrossing. Which I feel they did, in the pilot. I liked the way putting the Closer finale back to back with the Major Crimes pilot realistically portrayed how life changes and goes on, and how people react differently to those changes.

Flynn and Provenza are trying to fill those shoes, but we're so used to them being supporting characters that it's hard to see them as the primary pro/an-tagonists.

I didn't have a problem with this either. I enjoyed seeing the supporting characters driving the investigation and the story more than usual.

Edited by CatsWithAxes, Aug 14, 2012 @ 1:02 PM.

[MdMaxx]

I would have expected a more "finished" product, since we know almost all the characters.

That's only true if you've been watching "The Closer" from the beginning. "Major Crimes" is a new show and as such has to take into account new viewers. The writers would have to be mad to think that MC viewership would only consist of Closer fans.

Edited by MdMaxx, Aug 14, 2012 @ 5:16 AM.

[Silverstar1610]

I've watched The Closer since Mary joined, and while I grew to enjoy some of it, a lot of it has always rubbed me up the wrong way a bit. Which I fully admit to being biased because I adore Mary, I also just enjoyed the whole episode of Major Crimes more than I've enjoyed most episodes of The Closer.

Something about the way the whole cast worked seemed fresher to me. They seemed rejuvenated, more lively, more able to show their individual characters than I've felt for a while. I loved the way they were all given a chance to do something - Raydor was clearly the lead, but all the cast got more opportunity to just be. And I really enjoyed that. The eye contact between Sharon and Sanchez in the conference room where they communicated without saying a word stood out for me, as did the scene with Sharon and Flynn where they started out just as antagonists and then so quickly started working together. It feels to me like there is some kind of backstory there between those two characters - I don't know what, and I may be imagining it, but the fact that she called him Andy, immediately, when she's never referred to any of the others by their first names, and the fact he seemed to have her on speed dial in the Closer ep 'Old Money' makes me think they maybe know each other a little better than the others know her.

I also like the different focus. The big set piece confessions got a little old for me after a while, and it's nice to see something new and different, and perhaps with a little more variety to them. It seems that this will still allow shades of grey, but in different ways than in The Closer.

I'm very much looking forward to learning more about Sharon Raydor. I adore the character but she's never been given much to do before, outside of antagonising/supporting Brenda. I'm dying to see who she turns out to be. I love her calmness and her intensity, and I also love the little cracks that she showed, now and then.

All in all, this is my kind of show, and I really hope it continues and grows.

[jbd1263]

I have to admit [snip] I have loved Sharon Raydor since she first appeared on The Closer. She was such the antithesis of Brenda Leigh. And I for one loved her biting stoic monotone response to just about everyone and everything until she is pushed to the edge and she lets loose. I look for this to happen more and more as the show settles into a new routine and the characters get use to working with a new Chief.

Her taking over the division will have to provide a new direction. After all, Brenda Leigh was hired because she was THE CLOSER. That person is no longer with the unit. I suspect they will at some time get confessions, sometimes seek pleas and other times do what most investigations do, get enough evidence to convict (more realistic that The Closer, since rarely do police actually get usable confessions unless there is a plea bargain.

I think Major Crimes will achieve the success the network anticipates because it is a limited runs summer show and frankly there isn't a whole lots of competition for that time slot in July and August.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Aug 15, 2012 @ 12:15 PM.
"I'm the only one" is boards on boards

[myyellowrose]

As I am enduring personnel changes at work myself, I understood and appreciated the unsettled, suspicious feelings going around in the pilot. Big changes suddenly thrust upon them and some of them can't roll with the punches as well as others. Tao, Buzz and to an extent Sanchez, handled it a little more gracefully, but Flynn and Provenza, of course, had more trouble. Major Crimes Division acted under a protective umbrella for many years. Brenda made sure that she got her way and the squad got used to it. It's not unrealistic to have the squad be angry and irritated. Brenda closed cases and had a high conviction rate. And honestly, most taped confessions I've seen resulted in plea bargains anyway. To now have to sit and listen to the prosecutor bargain with the criminal, and see the plea process is a bitter pill. Also a totally unrealistic one. There is no need for an entire group of detectives to sit in a room and watch (with mounting horror). But since a city as large as LA can have a small squad to handle all "major crimes" and they all work on once case at a time, all together, and from start to finish, I guess we go with it. Kind of the bad guys to wait their turn, isn't it?
Detective Sykes has not endeared herself to me yet. Yes, she did a great job assisting the team, and the video game/firing range suggestions turned out to be great. However... she sucked up better than any vacuum cleaner I've ever owned and that trait makes me suspicious (IRL and in my tv shows).

Edited by myyellowrose, Aug 14, 2012 @ 6:31 AM.

[Silverstar1610]

I have to admit [snip] I have loved Sharon Raydor since she first appeared on The Closer. She was such the antithesis of Brenda Leigh. And I for one loved her biting stoic monotone response to just about everyone and everything until she is pushed to the edge and she lets loose. I look for this to happen more and more as the show settles into a new routine and the characters get use to working with a new Chief.

[snip] I utterly adore her, and have from her first episode, which, yes, is partly because I adore Mary too, but I also simply enjoy her type of character a huge amount, so I was delighted to see that she was heading the spin-off.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Aug 15, 2012 @ 12:16 PM.
"I'm the only one" is boards on boards

[Feleron]

I'm not sure how I feel about this show. I agree plea bargaining every episode will rob the show of a lot of its drama. BUT I don't mind the Raydor character and actually think putting her in charge will be an interesting turn for the show.

I understand why they put the first episode right after the Closer finale, and certainly made me more likely to watch it, but did anyone else feel like it hurt the episode a little? To go straight through like that I think lost some of the feel of a week passing. The tension and stress of Brenda being gone for a week and Provenza taking over just didn't work. I know, TV time isn't real time, but I think if a week had passed in my time the week in TV time would have felt more natural.

Did anyone else think Rusty would end up going home with Fritz and Brenda? He kept yelling he wanted to see Brenda and I'm like, her husband is in the next room idiot! But I guess having him go home with Raydor is to give us a more intimate look at Raydor by seeing her home life outside of work. Which seems a little sad and lonely.

[Mpress Elle]

Not bad for a series premiere, but the concept is seriously wack. The plea bargain scenes were BORING.

Love MM and the rest of the cast, but I just don't see how "drama" can be pulled from 'will he/won't he (or she) cop a plea.' Hopefully more focus will be directed to solving a crime and catching the perp, and they'll kinda let this whole plea bargain thing die a quiet death.

[Francie Nolan]

NOT a fan of the Sykes character.


At least Gabriel was an endearing suck up.

Something about her just rubs me the wrong way.

All of the ambition but none of the eagerness/moral compass.


Also I think that if they have Raydor bringing home strays in the very first ep it says not good things about the direction of her/her character/the show.

It's like they're hedging their bets that just the cases won't be enough to keep us interested.


And for me they're right.

[taiko]

And honestly, most taped confessions I've seen resulted in plea bargains anyway. To now have to sit and listen to the prosecutor bargain with the criminal, and see the plea process is a bitter pill. Also a totally unrealistic one. There is no need for an entire group of detectives to sit in a room and watch (with mounting horror). But since a city as large as LA can have a small squad to handle all "major crimes" and they all work on once case at a time, all together, and from start to finish, I guess we go with it. Kind of the bad guys to wait their turn, isn't it?

Well as his honor Mayor V. tells us Los Angeles has its lowest murder rates since the time of Dragnet. I suspect The Closer/Major Crimes mother show was Prime Suspect thus the squd looks like that and not the traditional lead detectives of most American murder shows.

My major complaint was the L&O CI feel. I could see Det Goren going on with a defense attorney in a special circumstances case, picked men and women, just sitting there while Cap Raydor made her needle threats

[crankyone]

What happened after Rusty was hobbling to the bathroom in Raydor's home? My DVR didn't realize TC and MC were 5 minutes over and cut off. Thanks. I hope they find Rusty's mom soon cuz he's annoying.

It wasn't bad and entertained me well enough. It didn't draw me like The Closer did, but I'm sure the show will go through some growing pains.

[elephant0303]

Feleron, yes. I kept thinking they were going to send him home with Fritz or at least have Fritz call Brenda and talk to Randy.

It will be interesting to see if they take off on the story line that was brought up at towards the end of The Closer where Raydor told Gabriel that she had been separated from her husband for over 20 years. Will we meet him or the kids?

[ZeteticinTexas]

I like the character of Sharon Raydor and the actress who plays her. I love the continuation of the Major Crimes Squad, and what I hope will be storylines that delve into each of these characters more (I read an article this week where this has been promised by the writers). I LOVE the awareness that Brenda Lee is happy and moving forward in life and that we will get to know tidbits about how she is doing, through Fritzi and through guest star appearances by KS (which I assume will be during sweeps week). I also liked how the foster teen was written, having worked with CPS cases for several years, the Rusty character was well-written. The actor did a great job, too, IMHO.

So, I'll be watching Major Crimes for awhile because these things are enough to keep me tuning in - for awhile.

However, I did find the pilot here to be much less smooth than I expected. I agree with the earlier poster, the intro of the new detective could have waited - but bigger deal for me was the whole plea bargain negotiation in the conference room.

Disappointing to me for several reasons, procedurally, not the least of which is the reality that California doesn't execute people on its Death Row. Raydor's big threat of lethal injection in her "deal or no deal" would have been easily dismissed by the defense attorney even if the guy didn't know any better. Heck, some inmates seek out a Death Row cell because the living conditions are supposed to be nicer there than for the ordinary Lifer.

All this jibber jabber about make a deal for face death in California just didn't ring true (now if the show were set here in Texas, totally different story....).

The last execution in California was six years ago, and right now there is a pending vote to repeal the death penalty by Constitutional Amendment (to be voted on in November). Since 1978 when the Death Penalty was reintroduced to California, only 13 executions have taken place. There have been moratoriums in place by both federal and state courts for several years now.

We each watch from our own perspectives, but that one scene in the conference room making the Big Bargain disappointed me greatly, so much so that I'm wary of what is down the road in this new "make a deal" cornerstone now that The Closer and her goal of getting a confession has left the building.

Oh, and the fact that I won't watch that show which is scheduled to follow Major Crimes -- with JosiePussycat as an FBI agent -- doesn't help me turn in either. Ewww.

[jenniferes]

I liked it well enough. I don't mind Raydor -- I'm not invested in her like I was with Brenda, but I don't mind seeing someone try to do things by the book. I'm mostly a by the book type of person myself. Her voice/intonation and her long hair bother me a little (the hair because I think they are trying too hard to make her seem young), but I think I can cope with that.

I love the gang and will stick with this show for them. Even Sanchez, Chupa Cabra that he was (TXF). In fact, I kind of like that they had varying opinions about what happened with Gabriel and now they have varying opinions on what's happening with Raydor.

I don't even mind the plea bargain aspect. It doesn't matter to me if a prisoner goes to jail for life for one murder or 10 murders, as long as he's behind bars for life. Of course, given overcrowding and budgets and such, there may be a better chance that they get out, but maybe Major Crimes can deal with this issue to create more drama.

For me, this was an enjoyable hour of TV and that's about all I'm looking for in a summer series.

Edited by jenniferes, Aug 14, 2012 @ 11:18 AM.

[Gata]

I can watch this show, but I really, really really, don't like the plea bargaining portion; that was way to lenient in my opinion. And there wasn't a reason given for the person to commit those crimes (I may be remembering incorrectly), but I needed more than how the murders were carried out. I wanted to know why in the hell the ex-military men decided to go on a thieving binge!!!

[Skycatcher]

I wanted to know why in the hell the ex-military men decided to go on a thieving binge!!!

Yeah, I missed this too. The lack of a motive made the whole episode seem rather random to me.

[Meredith]

It doesn't matter to me if a prisoner goes to jail for life for one murder or 10 murders, as long as he's behind bars for life.

This is why I didn't get Provenza's whining. I would have to watch again but I thought he was belly aching because the guy went to jail for one set of deaths instead of another in spite of the fact that he got a good long sentence.

[taiko]

Well they had changed the crazy Nam vet to the crazy Iraq vet with good guys like the FBI Agents of Bones and Numb3rs being Afgan vets. With the pull out from Iraq an attempt to have a character without a specific date has lead to the crazy Afganistan vet like here and on Longmire. In effect they are like Ice-T says in his bio, they have a skill and then used it in face of a recession

[Homo_Sapien]

The Closer was fun to watch because of Brenda and her methods of getting a confessions. I agree that premise had run its course. But it was the character that was the hook for the show.
Compared to Brenda Leigh Johnson, Sharon Raydor seems like a cardboard cutout. Is her quirkiness supposed to be following rules and saving money?
..And Mary McDonnell is good, but I always seem to get stuck focusing on her mouth and lips -- probably because her face always seems shrouded by her hair. She could benefit from updating her look.


The plea bargaining and LAPD bureaucracy were actually depressing -- definitely not the type of show I want to watch at the end of a Monday. Those scenes made me wish for some character to go all "Law Abiding Citizen" on their asses.
For that type of compromising realism there is always the nightly news or documentaries.

Edited by Homo_Sapien, Aug 14, 2012 @ 11:47 AM.

[kailess]

I really liked it. I think it's a keeper. Coming literally right after The Closer it was hard to not compare the two shows, but I think Raydor will do well standing on her own.

I have loved Mary on many things, especially Battlestar Galactic. After you've seen her order someone airlocked to their death, you have no doubt Mary can pull off steely, but she can also do kind and compassionate too, as witnessed with the teen. (Who I hope isn't staying around permanently.)

Raydor will be a different type of leader but at heart of it she is hard core for justice just like Brenda - she just gets there on a different path.

I liked the interaction with Provenza, showing that the transition wasn't all peaches and cream. As other posters have said, I think it would have served well to wait until the next episode to introduce the new squad member, but I like Raydor's comment: "I need someone here who likes me."

Loved Fritzi showing up to get Brenda's candy - can't wait to see what Raydor fills the drawer with!

[birdythurs]

I liked little character touches in the show--Buzz's eye roll at "Assistant Chief Taylor," sweet-heart Tao's enthusiastic "Hi Chief!" when Fritz answered the phone, the coroner. I thought Flynn was a little over the top in his reaction, and Provenza seemed to Take!It!Personally! more than I'd expect, but I can give them time to settle down. Don't especially like suck-up Sykes, but as long as they call her on her shit and she knocks it off there's hope. (I was just glad they didn't have Sanchez leering at her, but who knows how he'll swing later.)

Although Rusty made me roll my eyes so far back it hurt. Because bringing home the poor abused/neglected orphan boy worked so well three seasons ago! Now with obnoxious personality and living with the main character! Ugh.

The plea bargaining thing doesn't bother me quite as much as a loss of justice. Devil's Advocate and all, but better to guarantee prison time (and two deaths would still carry a significant sentence) than risk trials, mud-slinging, all that mess. I do hope that with the rise of the ensemble they'll go beyond lead-character-has-the-aha-every-damn-case and show that, guess what, the other detectives have brains too! I agree that there was no real explanation or motive here beyond some PTSD hand-waving, would have been more satisfying but maybe now that they have scene-setting out of the way future eps can focus on the case.

[bumblehare74]

It makes no sense for Rusty to go and live with Raydor. There will be a trial coming up, and I do think his living arrangements are going to be an issue if/when Rusty testifies. I assume that they will make the trial part of the series, and that is when I would also assume that Brenda would put in an appearance.

This pilot episode suffered from the old, stuff as much crap into a pilot and see if they can draw an audience, concept. TPTB did not need to bring in a new cop, certainly not an obnoxious one.

The rest of the cast tried too hard when it came to their acting, it sounded forced.

[SanDiego]

I thought the first half was very choppy, but it did get better later in the episode. I hate, hate, hate the Rusty character and honestly don't see how he contributes to the overall story. Hopefully he won't be in every episode, whining for someone to find his mom. I suppose he will be a fixture in "electronics" with poor Buzz.
I also can't stand the new character, Sykes.
I'll give it a shot for my weekly Tao, Sanchez, Provenza, and Flynn love.

[CatsWithAxes]

Even Sanchez, Chupa Cabra that he was (TXF).

Nice shout out - I remember his big fungus head well :) That was the first time I ever saw Raymond Cruz in anything.

Something about the way the whole cast worked seemed fresher to me. They seemed rejuvenated, more lively, more able to show their individual characters than I've felt for a while. I loved the way they were all given a chance to do something - Raydor was clearly the lead, but all the cast got more opportunity to just be. And I really enjoyed that. The eye contact between Sharon and Sanchez in the conference room where they communicated without saying a word stood out for me, as did the scene with Sharon and Flynn where they started out just as antagonists and then so quickly started working together.

I totally agree.

but I like Raydor's comment: "I need someone here who likes me."

What I liked even more was her reaction after Provenza said: "But Sykes doesn't like you!" - instead of crumbling she just smiled and said "Still..." - LOL. I love how unflappable Raydor is.

It doesn't matter to me if a prisoner goes to jail for life for one murder or 10 murders, as long as he's behind bars for life.

This is why I didn't get Provenza's whining. I would have to watch again but I thought he was belly aching because the guy went to jail for one set of deaths instead of another in spite of the fact that he got a good long sentence.

That type of thing (the villain getting convicted of the "wrong" crime rather than the "right" one) happened on Law & Order occasionally and the cops would usually bellyache it about it on that show too. I don't know how typical of real life that reaction is - it seems to me that veteran police offices like Provenza and Briscoe (L & O) would be inured to it enough at their age to have gotten past the bellyaching stage - but whatever. I guess it makes for good dramatic conflict. I have no problem with the plea bargaining aspect of this show in theory - plea-bargaining was a large part of L & O and those writers kept it interesting, although of course they also featured trials often. If a lot of time is spent showing the investigations and the actual plea-bargaining aspect is kept to a minimum of screen time, I see no reason why this show wouldn't stay as interesting in its own way as the The Closer was.

I don't know, I like the way the writers took risks and really shook things up in the very first episode: having Raydor show up late to the crime scene, blindsiding Provenza on his promotion, introducing Sykes, allowing Taylor's oiliness to be seen as effectual, and having things be generally somewhat chaotic. I'm not really interested in comparing this show to The Closer - it may have some of the same characters, which is a plus, but to me it's a different show, and I'm very curious to see where it goes.

Edited by CatsWithAxes, Aug 14, 2012 @ 1:48 PM.