169 replies to this topic

[DoctorDogBoy]

There we go.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Aug 22, 2012 @ 2:25 AM.

[applepie77]

Sorkin really brought it in Will's reporting of the death of Bin Laden. That lead in made me want to cheer -- I wish the real news guys could deliver like that. Will being baked was pretty funny. I thought Don was going to be arrested. Do airline pilots wear the stripes of their former military rank on their airline uniforms?

[Princess Aldrea]

WTF. I can't believe that Mackenzie actually put Will on the air when he was high. I don't care if he's the face of their channel, it was stpuid and irresponsible and she has no excuse. Maybe that's why Elliot and Sloan were on a plane, though, so there weren't any viable alternatives.

Plane lady was annoying but I liked Don, Elliot, and Sloan. And the bit where Don broke the news was kind of exploitative but I still thought it worked.

Lisa and Kaylee (she's still around? I wonder if she made it to 'girlfriend' status yet) were officially promoted to good characters tonight. I still don't think that Lisa needs to consider Maggie's feelings at all since she's done her best to point out Maggie and Jim's mutual pining and Maggie still won't leave Don but I can see why she doesn't want to be second choice. I still thought Jim's speech at the end to her was kind of cute.

Maggie is still unbearable but what else is new? And Mackenzie continues to fail and that's not news either. Whereas with Sloan she can do things like set a guy on fire and I'm willing to bet that there's a story there and not just her being a dumbass like I would have with Maggie or Mackenzie.

I refuse to believe that anyone was still watching and found out about the kill from Will, though, since he announced it twenty minutes after everyone else did.

And I can't believe Mackenzie thought a guy she's never heard of who was actually really important was hitting on her while Jim instantly knew what was going on. How much more can she possibly fail?

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Aug 5, 2012 @ 10:09 PM.

[DrivingSideways]

OMG. Worst episode yet. Corny and contrived on about 1000 levels. I needed an airline sick bag during the scene where Don breaks the triumphant news of Bin Laden's passing to the airline pilots. Don acted like an irrational psycho on the plane - it was the first scene where I understood his connection to Maggie. And Sloan Sabbith set an international dignitary's hair on fire? HOW WACKY!

Sam Waterston got several people killed with his reporting. And of course, Dev Patel's girlfriend's dad died in the WTC. Who on this show has not had a personal friend or family member killed in a terrorist act? Talk about saccharine and crappy writing.

[Colonel Green]

I'd like to believe that Jim asking Lisa out at the end means he's realized that Lisa > Maggie in every respect, and that'll be the end of their irritating subplot, but I can't. Seriously, Maggie hits new levels of hateability on a weekly basis.

[Princess Aldrea]

And of course, Dev Patel's girlfriend's dad died in the WTC. Who on this show has not had a personal friend or family member killed in a terrorist act? Talk about saccharine and crappy writing.

I don't think it's that strange. Thousands of people died and she lives in New York. Of all the people who worked there or happened to be there, the odds are decent that somebody would have known somebody.

[Colonel Green]

Yeah, of all the show's various connections, that one is easily the most plausible.

[dubiousegg]

It really felt like Sorkin did not have enough to fill an hour here, which is downright bizarre considering the subject matter. Seriously, there was some heavy-duty dialogue padding, with EVERYTHING being repeated for no good reason. I think if you cut out all the repeated dialogue you would lose 20 minutes.

Will, Mac, and Maggie? Still insufferable, although Maggie clearly wins the prize here. Run away, Lisa.

Will's speech irked me because he took way too long to get to actually delivering the news item. Compare with Obama's superior speech in the credits. Also, it's nice that he magically was able to time it exactly right.

Also, how did Will have time to be a superstar high school athlete while skipping all those grades?

I totally was team-Jane-in-DC.

Despite multiple "ugh" moments on the plane, I still would far rather watch the Don-Eliott-Sloan show.

[jessied112]

I do get why Don went a little psycho, though. Being stuck on a plane for a couple of hours but then the plane lands, you get news about something major happening and then finding out that you not only can't leave the plane, but you also can't stand up because an annoying flight attendant is threatening to arrest you? And they were still stuck on that plane for another hour and a half. I understand Don's frustrations. He wanted to be a part of the story (and Sloan did manage to get the first confirmation) but not being there to report it has got to be really difficult, especially for somebody as committed as Don. Some people don't do well in enclosed spaces, and I guess Don is one of those people. Interesting, seeing as Sloan and Elliot were pretty calm.

That being said, him breaking the news to the pilots and flight attendant was pretty cheesy. I still smiled. I think that's all he wanted; to be there to report the news and that's what he did.

Mackenzie letting Will go on the air totally baked was stupid. But I don't think she had a choice, given all the pressure she was under with figuring out what was going on. So I won't blame her much for this. She had to take a chance and luckily, it wasn't horrible. It also caused a hilarious moment of Tess bringing Will two sheets of paper that said in big letters that 'Osama Bin Laden is dead' (or something like that).

Maggie, why must you still be the weakest point? Jesus, it's none of your business. But at least she tried to help Jim? Even though that moment was really not the time to do so. And I wish Jim just let it go for the night as well, but he did try. I really hate this Jim/Maggie romance. Stop. It. I just know now that Don will do something that makes him look like the bad guy and leaves room for Jim and Maggie to hook up. Because Maggie is an angel, can do no wrong and wants to help everyone.

[reeneebob]

And of course, Dev Patel's girlfriend's dad died in the WTC. Who on this show has not had a personal friend or family member killed in a terrorist act? Talk about saccharine and crappy writing.

Why is that saccharine and crappy? I have friends who live in New York and all but one had a close friend or a family member who was in the WTC, knew someone killed in the WTC, or had someone they are close to who they helped deal with the loss. They've told me that even for their friends who DIDN'T know someone who was affected or were themselves directly affected, the memory of that day is still terribly traumatic. A couple have a hard time even being near the site.

I don't find it saccharine or crappy at all.

[Princess Aldrea]

Will's speech irked me because he took way too long to get to actually delivering the news item.

Although given how baked he was, it was pretty good.

It also caused a hilarious moment of Tess bringing Will two sheets of paper that said in big letters that 'Osama Bin Laden is dead' (or something like that).

Actually, one said 'Obama Good' and the other said 'Osama Bad.'

But at least she tried to help Jim? Even though that moment was really not the time to do so.

I disagree with that. Maybe she thought that was her motivation but Lisa saw her face when Jim said "me too." Maggie was overly invested in them before and the minute he implied the l-word she wants them to break up. Immediately. And Jim is not allowed to sleep with her again. And who cares if that's a bad time? It must be immediate! It was so about her. And I agree that Lisa did not need to know that Jim was planning on dumping her.

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Aug 5, 2012 @ 10:44 PM.

[bluepencil]

It also caused a hilarious moment of Tess bringing Will two sheets of paper that said in big letters that 'Osama Bin Laden is dead' (or something like that).

The papers said "Obama=Good" and "Osama=Bad."

[jessied112]

The papers said "Obama=Good" and "Osama=Bad."

Ah, got it. That makes more sense. It's still a hilarious moment.

I disagree with that. Maybe she thought that was her motivation but Lisa saw her face when Jim said "me too." Maggie was overly invested in them before and the minute he implied the l-word she wants them to break up. Immediately. And Jim is not allowed to sleep with her again. And who cares if that's a bad time? It must be immediate! It was so about her. And I agree that Lisa did not need to know that Jim was planning on dumping hre.

That's why I put a question mark at the end of my sentance. She did get too invested. I hate how she wanted it to happen immediately. Uh, no. It can wait. But she did keep pestering on and on. She probably did want to help, but for her own reasons. Not because of anything else.

[DrivingSideways]

Why is that saccharine and crappy? I have friends who live in New York and all but one had a close friend or a family member who was in the WTC, knew someone killed in the WTC, or had someone they are close to who they helped deal with the loss. They've told me that even for their friends who DIDN'T know someone who was affected or were themselves directly affected, the memory of that day is still terribly traumatic. A couple have a hard time even being near the site.

My entire family lives in NYC and luckily, were not personally affected by knowing somebody in the towers. However, even if they had, I still would have found it completely contrived. Dev was on the trains that were bombed in London, his GF's dad was in the towers... I expect next season we will see Maggie getting caught in the drama when she goes to see The Dark Knight midnight show on a visit home to Colorado, and then maybe Gary Cooper will be devastated when his second cousin Whitney Houston OD's in a Beverly Hills hotel the day before the Grammies, etc. It's just lazy storytelling, in my opinion. Judging by the fact that Sorkin fired his whole team of writers, I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's working.

[mrc12671]

"It's just lazy storytelling, in my opinion. Judging by the fact that Sorkin fired his whole team of writers, I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's working. "

Respectfully, if you think anyone but Sorkin has final say on every word of every episode, you don't know Sorkin. He gets the silver to Mad Men's Matthew Weiner gold on the General Zod, complete control contest -- and, unlike General Zod, nobody gets to rule Australia.

Episode was good. My wife cried (Anything 9/11 related moves her in a very personal place) I sometimes wonder if Sorkin feels there's no going back in regards to how he's set Maggie up to be character wise.

Edited by mrc12671, Aug 5, 2012 @ 10:54 PM.

[Unusual Suspect]

It's getting very hard for me to enjoy Jim when he's stuck in scenes with the relentless badgering annoyance that is Maggie. Someone drop a house on her.

Aside from that, Will on drugs was awesome, and the episode hit some damn good emotional notes with me.

[catrina]

By the way from a journalism perspective, the desire to "break" news early that is going to come out at a given time is the WORST PARTS OF TV JOURNALISM. (See CNN on reporting on Supreme Court's Affordable Care Act decision. Also every vice presidential pick every four years). I'm not saying it's unrealistic for producers to pat themselves on the back for getting that story, but it's not at all good journalism because it means nothing. We were all going to find out the news when the President announced it. Was was an extra 5, 10, 20 minutes earlier going to do to the story? Was bin Laden going to be any less dead?

[Princess Aldrea]

I don't really remember so how realistic was it that when the White House said 'special announcement' everybody and their mother knew that it was bin Laden?

[URFloorMatt]

I don't really remember so how realistic was it that when the White House said 'special announcement' everybody and their mother knew that it was bin Laden?

As I recall, it was pretty clear before the announcement. Probably around 10:30. (Granted, to anyone who was watching Geraldo, well, maybe they thought differently.)

This episode was not as good as the last couple, but it had good moments. Will being high was kind of hokey, and I agree with the other comment that said Sorkin really didn't have much of a story here and threw anything he could in to pad it.

Don, Elliot, and Sloan were good, and surprisingly the stuff with the flight attendant wasn't annoying. Jim and Maggie was better than the disaster that was the second episode but that's not saying much. Sloan actually had a really funny delivery at one point, but I forget now what it was.

[X Factor]

"Obama Good, Osama Bad": Just a big sloppy valentine to Obama 3 months before Election Day
filled with a lot of fluff. Easily the weakest of the seven episodes so far.

With respect to the Geraldo bit shown from Fox News, these are the facts: despite the urging
of his producer, Geraldo at first refused on air to report the death of Bin Laden. Then,
with multiple sources confirmation, he did report it on air at 10:40 pm that Sunday night
after having rumors for about an hour and a half (the plane with Don and Sloan landed at
LaGuardia at 9:07 pm). Will McAvoy reported it 54 minutes after Geraldo did at 11:34 pm.
Even if he had not been wasted on Marijuana and Vicodin and had reported it 20 minutes
earlier, he still would have been 34 minutes behind Fox News. This is not an example of
not reporting rumors until they have confirmation (Charlie reported it internally before
they had confirmation). It is an example of bad news reporting.

And why does it take 15 minutes to get the studio warmed up? News outfits learned that lesson
to always be ready on November 22, 1963 when it took about 11 minutes to get on the air
with video because they didn't have a hot camera.

The second big story of the day is that the ACN has a personal pipeline to the Vice President.
Not really, but it should be. Is this team able to report on Biden's Gaffetastic utterances?
Why not? They have no problem getting Neil's personal friend Amen and his family killed and
Sloan's Japanese personal friend's career destroyed to get a story (the world's most
predictable outcomes, which in fact, do not happen because of the magic of scriptwriting).
Just what is Sorkin's point with this series except to illustrate the wackiness of his
thought and logic and to try to affect the election? Talk about working against one's own
interests.

Edited by X Factor, Aug 5, 2012 @ 11:56 PM.

[thuganomics85]

I won't lie: I'm bummed we didn't get to see the adventures of Elliot, Don, and Sloan. OK, some of it sounded like typical stupid stuff (Don whining about Maggie, Sloan accidentally setting someone on fire because apparently Sorkin thinks women have to either be clumsy and goofy, stupid, or mean), but it also sounded kind of fun and the three actors really played off each other well. But seriously, Don. Just dump Maggie's ass. You're too good for her.

It's kind of sad that I already prefer Lisa and Kaylee (I think that's the name; whoever Neal's girlfriend/Natalie Morales is playing) over Mackenzie and Maggie, but there you go. Lisa was actually mature over the way she handled Jim and Maggie being idiots and it was much better then her getting all freaked out over Jim forgetting Valentine's Day. It's stupid though that she seems willing to give him another chance because it's obvious that Maggie will always be the one for him, for reasons I can't figure out. As for Kaylee, her father being a victim of 9/11 was kind of contrived (I agree that when Sorkin tackles Aurora; and you know he will; either someone is going to happen to have a family member there or will even be visiting there themselves when it happens), but I can look past it. And anyone who can do Guitar Hero blindfolded is good in my books. Better keep her, Neal. How many woman would be willing to stick with a Bigfoot-believing, bringing up aliens in a meeting room geek like you?

Will being baked was amusing. Poor Terry Crews though. He might end up retiring after having to "protect" him.

So, among other things, Mackenzie apparently either doesn't know the Red Soxs are a baseball team or that the Superbowl is the big game for football and not baseball. Don't get me wrong; not knowing much about sports is not a bad thing at all, but I would think even the biggest non-fan would know either of those. Still, I guess that isn't as bad as not knowing how to subtract 17 from 30 or what LOL means.

[Princess Aldrea]

This is not an example of not reporting rumors until they have confirmation (Charlie reported it internally before they had confirmation). It is an example of bad news reporting.

Well, that wasn't what they were trying to do. At first, Mackenzie refused to report it without two confirmations but when she went in to tell Charlie that they could report it now, he brought up how back during the Gulf War he reported where bombs were being dropped (after getting it confirmed twice, I'm assuming) and somehow this got Americans killed. He wasn't saying they didn't have confirmation, he was worried taht the white house was holding off on telling people to report the news because letting the news get out would endanger people involved with the killing.

[URFloorMatt]

Do airline pilots wear the stripes of their former military rank on their airline uniforms?

I don't think that's what that was, but anyone correct me if I'm wrong. I think that's just flair that United pilots wear (it mimics the U logo), and it wasn't until that moment that Don realized how much of an ass he was being to a flight crew that may well have been flying on 9/11 when everything went to hell. And whether they were or weren't, in the wake of the attacks, they were likely all faced with the harsh realization that if they had been flying on that day, they could've ended up crashing either into the WTC or the field in Shanksville.

[Barbarossa]

The whole Plane scene felt very Meta to me, with the whole evryone knows about Maggies schtick.

Yeah it does better in episodes where thers more focus on the news, less wacky hijinks. but they can be good like Baked!will as irresponsible as it was

[Anthony W]

Where was the Air Marshal on Don's flight? I find it hard to believe that he could make such a scene and have nothing happen.

[Red Snapper]

Ugh. I hated it. Here`s what I heard for an hour:

Hey, killed Osama bin Laden, isn`t that awesome! We killed him! He`s dead now, because of us| High five! Woooooo! We took a life! USA| USA!

Killing him may have been necessary, but it was NO ONE`s finest hour. Puke.

[DrivingSideways]

Next week are they going to discuss the fact that Bin Laden's body was dumped at sea and the conspiracy theories that that created? I assume the TMI crew will go after that story, since they seem to be the real investigative journalists on this show.

[dubiousegg]

I did laugh at the irony of Charlie telling the staff they couldn't spare more than three seconds to take stock of the moment. . .in a needlessly wordy speech. (Also, it's not like anyone except maybe Tess was actually working.)

The thing is, if Sorkin didn't take himself so goddamned seriously, and if he wasn't such a conventional* writer, I would think the weird pacing and repetitive dialogue, like that, was a meta-commentary on waiting to break the news. But I think Sorkin actually thinks I want to watch these people play guitar hero, and for Maggie to be utterly inappropriate and shrewish, and for Neal to talk about aliens and on and on and on.

*that's actually less of a value judgment than it sounds--but he does really like very traditional arcs and plot structures and resolutions. With lots of cheese. Like, on Mad Men, an episode about people waiting for something that was filled with stupid moments would definitely read to me as meta. On a Sorkin vehicle, it's just business as usual, with a big, not-as-great-as-he-thinks speech at the end.

[Breaker]

I really enjoyed the party and the cameraderie, and I mostly enjoyed the Adventures of Don and Sloan (and Elliott). Will was pretty funny. But the rest was sort of a hodge-podge.

The entire Jim-Maggie-Lisa bit was so tired. At this point I half expect Dawson to climb through a window.

The stakes about whether or not to report early seemed really inconsequential. (Although I found it pretty hilarious when Maggie was in the room to give her approval to Charlie.) I think maybe that's where the show really falls down, in that the drama is better when the stakes are about specific people (like Sloan last week) rather than about the big social consequences about how they're reporting the news, because the latter is undermined by hindsight bias and whatever other tools and coincidences Sorkin is arming the staff with. Not to mention that television news nowadays just doesn't feel as important as the show is making it out to be.

The major decision to use the death of Bin Laden as a rallying point and cause of celebration was... meh. I wish they hadn't been so hamhanded with Don noticing the lapels, etc, and with Will noting his bodyguard being an MP. And I couldn't help but thinking back to the moral ambiguity about Bartlet's assassination of that Qumari guy; IRL I vaguely remember some debates about whether the massive celebrations over Bin Laden's death went too far, and I think that might have been interesting here, though Charlie did put things into context a little.

Overall, a step back, but still better than most of the early episodes.

[henriPootel]

Easily the weakest of the seven episodes so far.

This episode finally made me understand why many folks hate Sorkin. This is the same guy who once brought tears to my eyes by having one character give another a carving set, now has a character say 'they killed Osama Bin Laden for you'. Ham-handed, manipulative, not to mention a tad offensive. Don't get me wrong - I thought the man really needed killing and wasn't upset at all when he ended up dead, but even when I heard the news that night I was a bit uneasy with all the high-fiving. I still think Obama had the tone right that night - he announced it plainly, he took direct responsibility, he did. not. strut.

Edited by henriPootel, Aug 6, 2012 @ 1:56 AM.