36 replies to this topic

[legaleagle44]

Bringing this over from the "Future Olympic Games: Where Will the World Party Next?" thread, since it's more on-topic here:

No runoff tonight between Felix and Tarmoh, as Tarmoh has given Felix the spot. Hmm...I wonder what went down.

Good question. I was on the fence about whether to watch the Track and Fields tryouts tonight, and this news made up my mind for me. The Bachelorette can wait -- I want to find out what happened, and why!

Edited by legaleagle44, Jul 2, 2012 @ 1:21 PM.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Regardless of what happened I feel for Tarmoh. She was told she placed third, did a victory lap and thought she was going to the Olympics but then had it taken away. I realize it's all in the name of fairness and getting it right but it still stinks for her.

Edited by MyAimIsTrue, Jul 2, 2012 @ 1:37 PM.

[soymilk]

Yeah, it does suck for Tarmoh, although she will be going as part of the 4x100 relay team, so she's still got a great chance to win a medal. I know she and Felix are training partners and good friends; this must be so awkward for them.

[braggtastic]

If anyone was going to pull out, I thought it would be the runner who already had a spot in the 200, so they could each have a solo spot in the Olympics. I agree it is weird.

[ToothbrushFence]

Curious decision. Why wait until now to back out? This is ostensibly her choice, but the comment above about the 100 being "taken away" suggests otherwise?

Edited by ToothbrushFence, Jul 2, 2012 @ 2:12 PM.

[MV007]

If anyone was going to pull out, I thought it would be the runner who already had a spot in the 200, so they could each have a solo spot in the Olympics. I agree it is weird.

I have no idea what went down, but what I do know is that Allyson Felix is the face of American Track & Field so its in the best interests of USA Track & Field, NBC, USOC, and the IOC to have Allyson Felix on television as many times as possible.

[kems28]

Deadspin thinks she might have pulled out because she's going to appeal the original results and competing in the run-off would be admitting it was a tie. It'd be interesting if that was true, although it seems like arbitration would take longer than 3 weeks to resolve.

Edited by kems28, Jul 2, 2012 @ 3:25 PM.

[MyAimIsTrue]

I have no idea what went down, but what I do know is that Allyson Felix is the face of American Track & Field so its in the best interests of USA Track & Field, NBC, USOC, and the IOC to have Allyson Felix on television as many times as possible

The conspiracy theorist in me (which doesn't come out too often) wonders if the above organizations somehow convinced Jeneba to back out for the very reason you mentioned about Allyson being the face of the US team.

[chesslover]

T&F use to be on regular tv a lot more back in the 70s and 80s. Those were the days.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Anyone else catch Lewis Johnson's interview with Jeneba Tarmoh last night during NBC's primetime coverage? She was so charming and just lovely, and I am definitely a new fan of hers.

[Ohwell]

I saw the interview, and yes, she was very nice but it also looked like it was very difficult for her to keep a straight face--like there was so much more that she wanted to say but wouldn't or couldn't. Bottom line for me is whether or not TPTB wanted their darling Allison Felix to win, Tarmoh should have put her fate in her own hands and run the damn race. Win or lose, at least she could have said that it was her own doing. As it stands now, she's either portrayed as a quitter (my opinion), or as someone seen in a sympathetic light because of the big bad mean bullies of the track federation and the Olympic committee who piled on her to pull out. I wouldn't want to be in either of those positions.

I was a track and field junkie back in the 70s and 80s. Now? Not so much, just the Olympics. Too much drama and too many prima donnas (and that includes the men).

[MyAimIsTrue]

I saw the interview, and yes, she was very nice but it also looked like it was very difficult for her to keep a straight face--like there was so much more that she wanted to say but wouldn't or couldn't.

I noticed that as well which brought me back to my original theory that she was asked to step aside by the federation, NBC, whomever in favor of Allyson Felix.

[MV007]

Tarmoh doesn't win any points with me. I can't ever remember a world class athlete in an idividual sport like this not having the balls to make a go for it. If these athletes have anything in common its the size of their competitive spirit and the self-belief that they can beat anyone at anytime. It's no wonder she finished third, she doesn't have the mindset that she's the best. Because if she did she would have competed in the run-off.

Edited by MV007, Jul 3, 2012 @ 7:16 PM.

[lacey81]

I don't know much of anything about Felix, but I kinda feel bad for her here. How is it her fault it ended in a tie? Now she's seen like bullying Tarmoh out, when she shouldn't have been expected to drop out either just because she got in fair and square in other races. It's not like Michael Phelps would drop out in a swimming race to give someone else a chance just because he has other races.

It's a sucky situation.

[braggtastic]

It's not like Michael Phelps would drop out in a swimming race to give someone else a chance just because he has other races.

Didn't he do exactly that the other day in one of the 200m events?

[selkie]

Doubly so for UASTF's handling of it all. Fairest thing to do for the athletes is to resolve the matter as soon as possible to avoid the week of mindfucking both athletes had to face. USA Swimming, which has a fair number of ties for selection or advancement because they only time to hundredths, says swim-offs to resolve a tie should be conducted no later than 30 minutes after the last scheduled event of the session. For track and field, I could saying ties would be resolved the day after the tie for distances 800M or shorter. And given how complex and commonly used the rules can get for resolving ties in the field events, I really am surprised that USATF had no procedure in place for resolving ties in running events.

Edit

As for Phelps, he dropped an individual event, which just happened to result in another swimmer (7th place guy in the 200M) getting called up because of how the relay pool for the 4x200 FR is chosen. Since Davis Tarwater hadn't qualified in another event, and they had room on the roster for another swimmer, he got called at the airport that he was getting put onto the team. If the guy who finished 7th had been a swimmer already on the team like Peter Vanderkaay, then PVK would be assigned the spot on the 4x200 FR in addition to his spot in the 400 free, and no additional athletes would have been added because of Phelps' scratch.

Same thing happened in 2008 when Dara Torres withdrew early from the 100 free as an individual event to focus on the 50 free- it triggered the 7th place swimmer in the event, Kara Lynn Joyce, being added to the team as part of the 4x100 relay pool, and the 3rd place swimmer in the 100 free got the individual 100 free swim in Beijing.

Edited by selkie, Jul 3, 2012 @ 8:26 PM.

[Ohwell]

Speaking only for myself, I certainly never accused Felix of "bullying Tarmoh out"; I specifically mentioned the track and the Olympic committee. However, I do believe that Felix is the one that they want to be the face of U.S. women's track and field (along with Lolo Jones and Sanya Richards--I am not looking forward to the slobberfest over these two). I'm sure she feels just as uncomfortable about this mess as Tarmoh. I just think Tarmoh should have run the damn race. Anyway, I wish Felix the best in the 100 at the Olympics.

[selkie]

I can't really hate Lolo because she's manged to become a functioning and generally pleasant and funny adult despite a crappy childhood of the homeless and shoplifting food for dinner variety, and when she crashes and burns, she picks herself up and starts working hard to again to get where she wants to be. And hey, it could be worse. We almost had Hey There Delilah on the Olympic team. (Delilah did manage to qualify for last year's track World Championships, but got beaten this year by up and comers in the steeplechase.)

[lacey81]

Didn't he do exactly that the other day in one of the 200m events?

He dropped out to improve his own schedule and chance to medal in other events, not to give a spot to someone else (though that was a consequence). I've read some stuff on how because Felix is already the favorite in the 200, she should've conceded the 100 spot to Tarmoh. That I don't agree with.

[ToothbrushFence]

He dropped out to improve his own schedule and chance to medal in other events, not to give a spot to someone else (though that was a consequence). I've read some stuff on how because Felix is already the favorite in the 200, she should've conceded the 100 spot to Tarmoh. That I don't agree with.

Exactly. Phelps dropped out of a race to benefit himself, not to give someone else a chance. This is elite athletics, not an elementary school soccer team. That is why Tarmoh's decision is so mystifying to me. It's hard to imagine an elite athletic conceding an Olympic spot to someone else in a situation like this.

[Ohwell]

I can't really hate Lolo because she's manged to become a functioning and generally pleasant and funny adult

Never said I hated her (or Sanya Richards-Ross) and I realize that it's not their fault that they get the hype and slobberfest. It happens in the most popular Olympic sports--the top athletes get the hype ad nauseum and the lesser known athletes, or the less attractive ones, get nada. I blame the announcers.

Edited by Ohwell, Jul 4, 2012 @ 10:27 AM.

[MittenGirl]

The only logical reason I can see for Jeneba dropping out is if she felt that there was a (potential) physical issue.

If she was "talked" out of it by TPTB, whomsoever they may be, or wants to take it to court, or is just in a snit because she feels she shouldn't have to run, I have no sympathy for her.

But if she felt that she may suffer an injury that would jeopardize her chances of competing at all, then I feel for her.

Still chuckling over Dan O'Brien's snark on Bruce Jenner.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Still chuckling over Dan O'Brien's snark on Bruce Jenner.

Which was a total thing of beauty.

And since we've been discussing Jeneba Tarmoh does anyone know how to properly pronounce her first name? Mostly I've heard JEN-eh-ba but then one announcer called her Jen-EE-ba. Wish I could remember who that was.

Edited by MyAimIsTrue, Jul 5, 2012 @ 6:20 AM.

[luvbadTV]

The only logical reason I can see for Jeneba dropping out is if she felt that there was a (potential) physical issue.

I'll start by saying that I think Jeneba won the race, and was bullied out by Nike & NBC. I think she may not have run the race because it could have hampered her chances to be named to the relay team. If she ran poorly, they may have had reason to put someone else on the relay.

[getawayjordan]

I'll start by saying that I think Jeneba won the race, and was bullied out by Nike & NBC. I think she may not have run the race because it could have hampered her chances to be named to the relay team. If she ran poorly, they may have had reason to put someone else on the relay.

I love Allyson, but I have to agree with luvbadTV that Jeneba edged her out at the tape. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of photo-finish analysis, but I know in football once a call has has been made it is never overturned unless there is compelling evidence to do so. Personally, I didn't see anything in the photo finish that was compelling enough to overturn the original decision that favored Jeneba - especially considering how high the stakes were. So I am strongly compelled to agree with luvbadTV that there was pressure from above (Nike, ABC, et al) to change the decision.

[Ohwell]

I think Jeneba won the race too, which is all the more reason why she should not have dropped out of the runoff. Even if there was pressure from the bullies, what they going to do if she ran? Was Nike going to drop her, and how do you think that would look to the public if they did? She would have come out smelling like a rose even if she lost the race.

[Misty Rose]

USATF fucked up. They never should have named Jeneba the winner because it really was too close to call. She was still in the relay pool. Doing the runoff wasn't going to change that. I'll say it. I think she's a flake and shouldn't be on the relay. Any other athlete in her position would've jumped at the runoff. She strikes me as a fragile flower and not an Olympic athlete.

[MV007]

I love Allyson, but I have to agree with luvbadTV that Jeneba edged her out at the tape. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of photo-finish analysis, but I know in football once a call has has been made it is never overturned unless there is compelling evidence to do so. Personally, I didn't see anything in the photo finish that was compelling enough to overturn the original decision that favored Jeneba - especially considering how high the stakes were. So I am strongly compelled to agree with luvbadTV that there was pressure from above (Nike, ABC, et al) to change the decision.

This analogy doesn't completely work. In football and other sports that utilize instant replay and use that standard of needing the video replay to show evidence to overrule the call on the field, those sports have officials making a decision on the field. There is a human element. In track and field they only use a clock and replay. There is no human element. So the argument in football would be that the official is on the field and is in prime position to make a call. If the video doesn't directly contradict him then don't change the call. Here in track we have a stop watch and video making the initial call. Unless I'm mistaken and there is an actual judge at the line. But even if there were the runners are moving way too fast for a human judge to make an intelligent decision as to who won. I think the video shows a tie.

[getawayjordan]

In football and other sports that utilize instant replay and use that standard of needing the video replay to show evidence to overrule the call on the field, those sports have officials making a decision on the field. There is a human element. In track and field they only use a clock and replay. There is no human element. So the argument in football would be that the official is on the field and is in prime position to make a call. If the video doesn't directly contradict him then don't change the call. Here in track we have a stop watch and video making the initial call. Unless I'm mistaken and there is an actual judge at the line. But even if there were the runners are moving way too fast for a human judge to make an intelligent decision as to who won. I think the video shows a tie.

There is no human element in track and field judging? Really? If that's true, then how do they analyze photo finishes to determine the winner? If the film could always determine who won decisively, there would never be any need for further (human) analysis.

I still don't understand how Jeneba was declared the winner (of third place) one moment and then suddenly tied for third the next moment using the same photo finish results. Did something change between the first and second decision? IMO that kind of sloppy decision making really calls the judges credibility into question.

I agree with Misty Rose in that the USTFA f'd up, but I don't agree that Jeneba is a flake. A runoff would only help to cover the USTFA's butt as they never actually had a rule in place to cover this type of situation. That's their screw up and they need to own that instead of offering up a runoff and placing the onus on the athletes in question to settle the matter. The USTFA should first explain (honestly) why they declared Jeneba the winner and then suddenly (inexplicably) reversed their decision.

[HamTown]

If they had never announced the 3rd place finisher and simply kept up the "its a photo finish" idea, the reaction wouldn't have been as strong. Now it's very easy to believe (right or wrong) that politics came into play.

Worst case scenario: she's not just a flake but now a pissed off flake for losing her chance in an individual race and she screws up the relay. It will never happen, but feeling vindictive can do strange things to a psyche.