199 replies to this topic

[fionab]

Emily opens a can of medieval West Virginia whoop ass on the guys.

Edited by fionab, Jun 11, 2012 @ 9:20 PM.

[msburg]

I laughed out loud when she said to Sean that she was ready to take off her earrings and go at it. There's some of the real Emily coming out, and I found it much more endearing than this southern belle shtick.

[TomGirl]

I must say, I really have respect for how Emily is handling this whole thing. She is straightforward and no nonsense, but still kind hearted and humorous. I think she looks more gorgeous every week, too. She's showing a lot more substance than we ever saw on Brad's season. I really like this girl!

[superpole2000]

I guarantee Ricki is going to need to hear the "You're not special!" speech at her high school graduation.

Emily went to the "Right?" well early and often on her date with Jef.

I thought Emily's insistence that the bachelors stick up for her, defend her, and "have her back" against Kalon was ridiculous. Were they supposed to kill him? Beat him with a stick? Call the police and have him arrested? Emily, you are not in distress, and you don't need to be rescued. Get over yourself. The guys all thought he was a loser, so just let it go already.

[Ketzel]

I am starting to find Emily very dull and limited. Isn't there anything else she wants out of life aside from a husband and three or four more children? Not that raising a family isn't a perfectly laudable goal for one's life, but -- there's nothing else? Children grow up and leave, you know, Emily, and what are you going to do with your life then? Do you want to travel? Do you have a passion for movies or Italian cookery or ice-skating or playing the flute or, well, anything at all? Religion? Charity? Home design?

And what does she want from these men aside from (1)protection and service, and (2) sperm?

I understand why she wouldn't want any of her suitors labeling her child as 'baggage.' For sure, it is disrespectful, dismissive and insensitive. Kalon behaved like an ass. But he didn't confide his evil plan to force Emily to abandon Little Ricki in an orphanage the minute she said, "I do" to him. He just expressed a selfish discomfort at the thought of taking on a ready-made family. I thought her reaction was over-wrought, to say the least, and her crisis of confidence in all the other men who didn't tell her about Kalon's attitude was sort of silly.

She wants a man who would fight someone who said that about her and Little Ricky? Seriously? Was Doug on the right track when he said anyone who called his kid "baggage" would be laid out on the floor? I was fairly horrified at that, myself, because I would assume anyone bothering to characterize Doug's family situation in that way would be a woman considering dating him. "Doug," she says, "I'm sorry, but you have too much baggage for me to take on at this point in my life, so thanks for asking, but no." And then what? POW! Right in the kisser? Sheesh.

[Wibnix]

Was it explained how she lost her voice?

I'm afraid I am not part of the Emily lovefest going on here. She is just so one-dimensional. Everything is all about her/single mom/little Ricki and on and on ad nauseum. The show is pretty much background for me and not must-see TV by any stretch.

The Shakespeare thing was pretty funny, especially Arie and Doug. The Jef date was just a nightmare during the whole etiquette lesson. Who thought of that for a date? I would have been pissed too. Who gives a shit? I don't know why she still keeps the smarmy guy who gave her a necklace-- I think? Can't be bothered to look up his name.

I think she and Sean are well-suited and they can have more blonde children. How many does she want anyway?

Edited by Wibnix, Jun 11, 2012 @ 9:49 PM.

[Madmarsha]

I'm afraid I am not part of the Emily lovefest going on here. She is just so one-dimensional

I admit I am part of her lovefest, only because she's kicking these guys' ass like no other 'ette has ever done at least within the confines of the show. So tired of being promised a dramatic confrontation only to get "gee, I don't know if Wesley is a total butthole or not so I guess I'll keep him around till I'm sure". So at least with this one we're getting the promised "get the fuck out" confrontation. I do agree that she is 1 dimensional and bland but she ain't no doormat ... either to these guys or to the show. She is having the show on her terms as much as possible which I appreciate from this exploitative show which pretends it has its Bachelorettes' backs.

Loved how she turned around Kalon's line and used it back on him and he had no choice but to shut.up when he finally realized how this whole deal works. In this artificial dating scenario, TB has got the upper hand which means YOU listen.

Edited by Madmarsha, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:14 PM.

[LadyJaney]

I thought Emily's insistence that the bachelors stick up for her, defend her, and "have her back" against Kalon was ridiculous. Were they supposed to kill him? Beat him with a stick? Call the police and have him arrested? Emily, you are not in distress, and you don't need to be rescued. Get over yourself. The guys all thought he was a loser, so just let it go already.

This. I get where she would be pissed at Kalon for his callous remarks and general douchiness, but to go off on the rest of the guys for not "having her back" was a bit too much. She got pretty snippy at them. Even Doug, who came out and told her what was going on. These are a bunch of guys. A bunch of young dudes who probably don't want to turn everything into a big drama scene (well some of them do). For her to carry on at them like that after the fact might be a foreshadowing of what life with Emily is like if you don't constantly dote all over her.

Then at the cocktail party she grilled them again and was like"but I don't want to talk about it". Then let it go, girl.

I don't know. I was liking her, but I don't like the "all about me princess" side she shows now and again.

Sean is lovely. He is sweet and pretty and a good kisser (from what I can tell). He seems to lack a certain sort of substance about him. Like either he is hiding something, or just isn't overly bright. But maybe he just is what he is. Either way, he is definitely dreamy and would be my choice if I were in Em's shoes. I almost hope he goes far but doesn't get picked so he can be the next Bachelor.

Jef seems pretty cute and sweet too.

[kate123]

Oh, so many little tidbits in this episode! Where to start? Who knew Doug had a sense of humor? He was actually laughing during the Shakespeare rehearsal. Who knew anything could rattle Arie? He was so nervous about acting and then he got all kind of nervous when he was the last one to get a rose. I'm liking Jef more and more. He is just one righteous dude (to quote Ferris Bueller).

Chris Harrison pimped out this episode as the rise of Sean, but I'm sorry, I see absolutely no chemistry there. I think she actually had more chemistry with Ryan tonight than she did with Sean. And what a comeback for Ryan. I suspect the producers are getting him drunk, putting him in front of the camera and hoping that he'll start pontificating, making him look like an arrogant gasbag and giving them all kinds of good tape. But, when he's not talking to the camera, he actually seems kind of charming . . . maybe.

Alejandro, don't worry. You're going to have women hanging all over you by tomorrow morning. You are one sexy mushroom farmer. I think Travis needs to have a show of his own. He's so funny! Should have left Shelly at home and brought the good funny earlier. John/Wolf, you're kinda cute and getting cuter every time I see you. Chris/Squidward, you're fast becoming forgettable. Time to step up your game, bud.

And finally, Kalon, you were a giant douche from the start and I haven't changed my mind on that. Did I forget anyone? Oh, wait, I think that Kalon might have been teh vampire that Allessandro warned everyone against.

Edited by kate123, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:28 PM.

[msburg]

Sean is lovely. He is sweet and pretty and a good kisser (from what I can tell). He seems to lack a certain sort of substance about him. Like either he is hiding something, or just isn't overly bright.

The term for this is "decorative, not functional." This is problematic for he and Emily, as generally one of a pair should be functional....

[Mood Indigo]

The teenager inside of Emily wants Jef because he's such a carefree spirit. He would be someone she would have dated before having her daughter.

Deep down, she probably knows that Arie is a bit of a bad boy. He's fun to have around, but probably isn't marriage material for her.

Sean is likely the most reliable and sensible - at least how it plays on tv. I would imagine he's the safe choice and they could potentially have a future outside of this show.... which means she will probably pick Arie. Ha!

Did we ever see a shot of her in any of the promos with her at a proposal spot? I thought they usually showed that "golden camera shot" in the premiere episode.

My guess? Ryan will be getting the swift kick out of Croatia next week. Ta-ta!

[PetuniaP]

I thought Emily's insistence that the bachelors stick up for her, defend her, and "have her back" against Kalon was ridiculous.

I feel so opposite on this point. I find myself liking Emily a lot but this is the first time I related to her. Maybe it's a certain personality trait but if I'm with any of my friends, my family, or anyone I really care about and something goes down and someone says something disrespectful to them, I turn into a tiger and immediately get very protective and I will say something. Even if my loved one can defend themselves and is taking care of it. It's not something I even think about, it's just a gut reaction instinct to protect and defend. And it's not like I'm a fighter looking to throw down. Perhaps because I have that instinct, I *do* want to feel like I have people that would do the same for me as well. I get that it's not everyone's personality to be like that...but I know for sure that I wouldn't marry a guy that didn't feel that gut reaction to protect me and get into someone's face on my behalf. It might be a backwards way of thinking but I empathized with her hurt feelings that none of the guys stood up for her in that situation. Perhaps, they aren't there yet in their feelings for her but it would have sent up red flags for me as well.

I think Arie fell a good bit in Emily's eyes tonight at the same time as other guys, like Sean and Jef, are starting to become bigger threats. Even Ryan is sneaking his way in. I'm very interested to see how Arie recovers....based on previews, he will recover...but will it be enough?

I thought Emily's season had the potential to be a great one but surprisingly, it's not for the reasons I expected it to be. I thought the bachelors would be amazing and I'd fall in love with them and find Emily wanting. But now, I'm really invested in her story and intrigued to see who she picks and for what reasons.

Edited by PetuniaP, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:21 PM.

[reggiejax]

Great that Emily lashed out at that dickhead Kalon, but that doesn't make her any different from any other parent, so she can stop with the "Mama Grizzly", or in this case "West Virginia hood rat" schtick.

But to act all offended that none of the guys "had her back" was stupid. What did she honestly expect them to do? Did she want them take turns beating his ass? And that's another thing, this isn't the average situation. Of course she would want her man to stand up for little Ricki, but in this case, one could argue that none of them are her man. Or all of them are. So how do any of the remaining bunch of suitors go about defending Emily and Ricki's honor. Do they take turns, draw straws, or is it first come, first serve? Or is it too presumptuous for any of them to think they have that right?

Kalon's defense, that it was taken out of context, was incredibly lame, and I certainly wouldn't expect Emily to buy it either. But what was rather ironic is that, later on during her date with Jef, in the course of the natural flow of conversation about the topic, Jef made the statement that if Ricki were baggage, she would an expensive, cherished and valuable piece of baggage. A Louis Vouitton, or what have you. This made Emily smile. All I could think was that apparently there can be context to referring to Ricki as baggage.

Edited by reggiejax, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:28 PM.

[LakeGal]

It annoyed me the way Emily went after the guys for not having her back. What did she expect of them? They were upset with what Kalon said and she was told about it. Were they suppose to attack him and send him away so she did not have to deal with him? Doug handled it well. He asked Kalon if he had said it before he told Emily. In the past people that have told on others have not always been appreciated. Emily went overboard about this. And she would not let it go. Take it out on Kalon, not the other guys. Her actions are all about wanting all the guys to guard and protect her. Maybe she needs Kasey and his tattoo.

I wish the guys would ask her about her ambitions or interests. Other than wanting a man to take care of her and Ricky plus giving her future children we know nothing about her. She is behaving like a princess.

I do not know what she sees in Jef. He seems like a boy among men.

[fionab]

I thought her reaction was over-wrought, to say the least, and her crisis of confidence in all the other men who didn't tell her about Kalon's attitude was sort of silly.

I totally 100% agree. First of all, there may have been some nuance to what he said that got lost -shocker-as it was past from person to person to Doug. While I don't think that taking the time to understand the nuance would have saved Kalon, it might have helped her understand why the guys didn't react more strongly. But no, she was pissed at them, without knowing whether that was fair.

Plus, when were they supposed to say something? were they supposed to interrupt her tour of London with Ricki? Were they supposed to interrupt the date with Sean? Were they supposed to start the group date on that note, and ruin the whole date and their chance to spend time with her? You can't be upset that people didn't talk to you when they barely have any opportunity to talk to you, and would prefer that to be positive.

I am really looking forward to the Chris Harrison confrontation, though something tells me the producers have overblown it.

Edited by fionab, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:44 PM.

[TheFinalRose]

Chris Harrison pimped out this episode as the rise of Sean,

I saw this episode as Jef becoming a main contender. What a cutie. Even with the weird hair.

I would not want to eat dinner in the Tower of London, considering its history.

Edited by TheFinalRose, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:00 PM.

[merkay]

Jef seems like the only one of these guys with any depth or character. I suspect he would eventually get bored with Emily because I haven't seen any evidence that she has much depth. She's very sweet, but Jef seems very ambitious and intelligent.

I think he's actually the most mature of any of these guys. He may look young, but he doesn't act like it.

[kate123]

Of course she would want her man to stand up for little Ricki, but in this case, one could argue that none of them are her man. Or all of them are. So how do any of the remaining bunch of suitors go about defending Emily and Ricki's honor.

Word, word, word! I can tell you why the guys didn't rat on Kalon. It's because they've all had that same uneasy thought before. They may not have called Ricki baggage, but Emily is coming into this with some major baggage that could cause some complex problems. If they have some dreamy notion that this is all going to run smoothly, then they may be dumber than I thought.

First, she has the memory of her dead fiance. She compared Arie to him in an early episode and said that he was her one true love. So, most of the guys can figure they're going to play second fiddle to the memory of her daughter's father.

And then you have her relationship with Ricki. They've been a pair for six years. The new guy in the house is now going to be playing third fiddle. I can't imagine that there aren't going to be some major jealousy problems between Ricki and the new guy. And I get the sense that Ricki is always going to come first for Emily. New dad is probably going to be banished to the periphery until they have their first child together.

And then you have Emily's controlling ways. She has been in charge of her own life for so long that she really doesn't need a man to play the traditional role. She has gotten her way exclusively for six years because she's been the one to make the decisions. It's a tough thing to abdicate control after all that time. So the new guy will now move back to fourth fiddle.

And finally, you have Ricki's grandparents, who have probably been an important part of her life. How are they going to react if Emily drags the only child of their dead son across the country to live in Utah? They've got a vested interest in this too, but maybe not a fiddle.

That's what these guys are thinking about. They may not say the word "baggage" but there should be some concerns. If there aren't, then they're walking into a divorce that's just waiting to happen.

[Fallacy]

I don't think Emily was looking for any of the guys to get physical with Kalen. I think she wanted one of them to at least verbalize agreement with her while she was telling him off. A little verbal back up seemed to be what she was looking for there. She seemed to make that clear when she said, "I can't believe nobody said anything."

On the other hand, with Arie, I think she was very disappointed that he wasn't the one that told her first. Prior to this week, she was obviously closest with him. I noticed that Ryan kept going on and on about how Arie had to wear a dress while he got to kiss Emily. To me, those comments seem to suggest that the rest of the men know Arie is a front runner. And of course, being Emily, she punished Arie by picking him last in the rose ceremony this week. However, I still see the most chemistry between her and Arie, even if she had "amazing" dates with Sean and Jeff.

[ljw948]

Did we see/hear Kalon refer to Ricki as "baggage"? Or is this something that he was heard to say that was not shown? If it was shown, was it early in the episode? I heard Kalon say that any date with Emily would be a group date, or words to that effect, because she has a child. But I didn't hear him call Ricki "baggage." So I don't know if I just missed it, or if it wasn't actually shown.

[Madmarsha]

I think Emily was kicking herself for not getting rid of Kalon before London and took it out on the guys by assuming he had said things like this before. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't but she was acting like Kalon was directly insulting little Ricki by calling her a brat or something which I don't think he did so she was def letting her anger overreact. I'm hoping she realized that after she calmed down after finally doing the right thing and booting Kalon. I think she was projecting that he had been blatantly saying things like this all along so she was pissed the guys didn't tell her because she knew her intuition was telling her before that something wasn't right with him but she kept giving him a rose. But, frankly, I'm not sure he said anything in London than we didn't already glean from his "I like hearing you talk but it's time for you to shut up now" conversation about how he felt being a stepfather. He didn't say it outright and candid, but dude did NOT want the job.

Oh, yeah. That tea party disguised as an etiquette lesson was the dumbest thing ever but that was a very pretty tea service. I think Jef's a cool guy but I'm thinking more friend zone or even brother material than love connection.

Oh, and the name you're looking for for Ryan, Emily, is Lothario, not Romeo.

Edited by Madmarsha, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:28 PM.

[Neuromancer]

I admit I am part of her lovefest, only because she's kicking these guys' ass like no other 'ette has ever done at least within the confines of the show. So tired of being promised a dramatic confrontation only to get "gee, I don't know if Wesley is a total butthole or not so I guess I'll keep him around till I'm sure".

Problem is, if it had been Doug telling her about Arie (or another of her faves), would she have believed him or gone after Doug? Usually it's death on this show to criticize any of the other players. Look at Emily (the doctor) getting a warning last season from Ben for daring to criticize and question Courtney and her motives. Emily didn't care about Kalon, so it was easy to believe Doug.

I found it disingenuous that Emily said she was upset no one stood up for her -- after Doug came and told her about what Kalon said. I guess Doug, not being one of her faves, is relegated to "nobody" status. Not that I care for him, but way to discount the one guy who did actually "have your back."

God, the whole thing was much ado about nothing (cue Shakespearean reference.) Big frikkin' deal if he called your daughter baggage. He's never even met the darling perfect Princess Ricki, the Great Blessing Emily will Bestow upon her Chosen One. And Kalon's earlier comment to the guys that future dates after the show would be "group dates" because of the little girl was not wrong at all. Especially if she's really the full-time mother the show is portraying her as.

Emily is still deadly dull to me, and it's worse the more she talks about her kid and her dreams of popping out three or four more babies. Her eggs are rotting, and she's only 26, because she's on a schedule for Ricki's sake. She doesn't want brothers and sisters to be too much younger than her. Emily is tedious to me. Very one-dimensional.

Did we see/hear Kalon refer to Ricki as "baggage"? Or is this something that he was heard to say that was not shown? If it was shown, was it early in the episode? I heard Kalon say that any date with Emily would be a group date, or words to that effect, because she has a child. But I didn't hear him call Ricki "baggage." So I don't know if I just missed it, or if it wasn't actually shown.

We never got to hear it, no. Must have happened off camera.

First, she has the memory of her dead fiance. She compared Arie to him in an early episode and said that he was her one true love. So, most of the guys can figure they're going to play second fiddle to the memory of her daughter's father.

Exactly. That's huge baggage, emotional baggage, that would be really off-putting for a lot of guys -- not because the woman had this relationship, but because she's actually called him the "love of her life." How can any man compete with that?

Edited by Neuromancer, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:23 PM.

[neptune42]

Oooh. First I was on Team Sean. They'd have lovely blonde babies together and be blissful. Then sweet and earnest Jef started talking about dance parties with Ricki and I don't know how Emily restrained herself from jumping his bones right then and there.

So glad that Kalon's pompous ass is gone. Can Ryan be next?

While I get why Emily shut down the group date, she could've acknowledged Doug as one who was looking out for her, since he did tell her about Kalon and his "baggage" remark.

I agree that this season isn't what I was expecting, but I'm enjoying it. I'm glad that the producers have stopped giving Emily the Tragic Edit - the Sweet But Sassy Single Mama Edit is much more interesting. I still don't know who all of the men are - I had no idea who Travis was but he's cute - but she's got some good contenders. I loved that Doug totally committed to being dressed as a nurse with a ridiculous headpiece.

And I got to visit Dubrovnik a few times as a younger lass, so I'm really looking forward to the location shots next week.

[isotonerz]

Kalon was right:

For all the reasons itemized by Kate123, Emily does have lots of baggage, and
what he said WAS taken out of context. The other guys jumped on it.

He never said "Ricki is baggage". But, since Emily chose to believe the slant the other guys put on what he said, so be it. Pffft.

Edited by isotonerz, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:26 PM.

[seb]

I thought Kalon basically confirmed that he considered Ricki baggage and said something to Emily along the lines of, "I'd rather have my first child be mine." And... yeah. There's no way of coming back from that. With a bunch of guys who aren't expressing that, why would she keep him around? I'm probably coming at this from the position of a woman in a serious relationship with someone who has a daughter, but either you're willing to be a stepparent or you're not. The time to think about that is very early in the relationship, and weren't these guys cast knowing it was Emily? It's ok not to want to be a stepparent, and it's ok not to want your children or someone else's, but it's not ok to date a parent if you feel that way. If you start out thinking the kid is a problem, you're not going to come around to wanting the joys and frustrations of helping to raise a child. Chris needs to bring back the old intro to rose ceremonies of inviting suitors to quit.

[Neuromancer]

The term for this is "decorative, not functional." This is problematic for he and Emily, as generally one of a pair should be functional....

Hah! I know, right? I don't think Sean is Bachelor material, but I can definitely see him with Emily. They'd be so perfect (-ly bland) together.

Jef made the statement that if Ricki were baggage, she would an expensive, cherished and valuable piece of baggage. A Louis Vouitton, or what have you. This made Emily smile. All I could think was that apparently there can be context to referring to Ricki as baggage.

reggiejax, you're right! It really is all in the delivery. And the level of money spent, apparently. (My child is an object only if she's a really expensive one!)

Her actions are all about wanting all the guys to guard and protect her. Maybe she needs Kasey and his tattoo.

You made me laugh out loud, good one!

Kalon should have confessed that he came along for the free trip to London.... Probably true of at least half of the guys left.

ITA with a post above that all of the guys have been thinking, though not saying, that Ricki is baggage. They'd be idiots not to wonder how that would affect their lives.

Emily really needs to get over herself with the "have your back" stuff. None of them have committed to her in any way, other than going on occasional dates. That does not an obligation make.

Edited by Neuromancer, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:43 PM.

[MaryShelley]

I was really taken aback by Emily's criticizing the other bachelors for not "having her back" when she was reading Kalon the riot act. I actually fully agreed with Arie's interpretation, that she seemed like she had it under control. I would have thought it condescending if one of the guys had jumped in like they had to come to her rescue. She seemed fully capable of articulating her message! [Side note: Watching this show makes me think the traditional wedding vows should be changed to, "Do you, so-and-so, promise to have her back...?"]

Loved how she turned around Kalon's line and used it back on him

That was a great moment. She does have some gumption and self-respect, which is nice to see.

I'm glad that the producers have stopped giving Emily the Tragic Edit

Word! That got unbearable during Brad's season.

And of course, being Emily, she punished Arie by picking him last in the rose ceremony this week.

I don't think the Bachelors or Bachelorettes have anything to do with choosing the order in which they hand out the roses. I think the producers determine the order based on the need to create drama. (Haven't you noticed how the one person who is on the fence always, always, always gets the last rose?) Anyway, there was no way Arie was going home just for that. He's way too hot. I also think he actually really likes her; he looked genuinely concerned when she was upset over Little Rickygate, and had a very sad puppy dog face during the RC.

Edited by MaryShelley, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:44 PM.

[Ludwig73]

"So, like, I like really like you, and it's like, you like, like me too and like, you know, like, we like, like each other, and that's like super-cool cause like, liking is like loving but, like, not, but still like, what I'm trying to say is, like, I like you and like...like wow. That's like, awesome."

-Shakespeare, "As you like it"

[Maddingcrowd]

I didn't understand why Emily was so upset at the guys for not telling her-one of them did tell her. And I'm not even sure that all the guys even heard him say that (if he did). If any of these guys watched the show before they would know that the tattletale person is always looked down on and given the boot not long after. Ryan kind of said something like "We thought you knew what kind of person he was or have figured it out". Even if he did make the announcement in front of all the men were they supposed to jointly wake up Emily at midnight to tell her? I wish Doug would have just said "We are telling you".

Kalon may be a jerk, but he really didn't say anything all that horrible. I think he tried to say a few times that he had always envisioned his first child as being his own, but that he was open to the idea of being a stepfather. I'm sure all the guys feel exactly the same way but they certainly would be afraid to mention it.

Emily seems quite the pampered princess to me and she expects these guys to worship and wait on her hand and foot. And yes, for God's sake mention something other than wanting to have endless amounts of kids to 27 year old guys.
Still don't see her with Jef as he looks like a little brother for some reason. I still kind of crush on Ryan and think he is funny (but probably wouldn't like him in real life). I actually think she has some cute guys: Arie, Ryan, Sean, Doug and some so-so guys: Chris, Jef, Travis and Wolf guy.

Edited by Maddingcrowd, Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:54 PM.

[Mood Indigo]

"So, like, I like really like you, and it's like, you like, like me too and like, you know, like, we like, like each other, and that's like super-cool cause like, liking is like loving but, like, not, but still like, what I'm trying to say is, like, I like you and like...like wow. That's like, awesome."

-Shakespeare, "As you like it"

Goodness, I do love me some Jef with one F screentime, but this quote is golden!