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#2821

Brocks

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 12:54 AM

Did I miss something about a lot of time passing, or did Oliver go from not being able to draw the bow to being easily able to do it in a few hours of slapping the water?
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#2822

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 1:00 AM

Oh Tommy Tommy Tommy.. I'm with Oliver on this.

How... Harry Osborn of him.

It's been years since I saw that movie but didn't Harry Osborn not know the identity of Spiderman nor what his father did when he chose his side? Because, Tommy does know about Oliver being the Hood and to borrow this quote from an interview with Colin (that contains spoilers)

“I’ve been saying this a bit lately: I think if [Malcolm] was willing to show him once, there’s no reason to think that he maybe wouldn’t show him again. You never know,” he teases.

I do think the show will go there and the Dark Archer would reveal his identity to Tommy too before his final battle with Oliver, and I can't see how Tommy would choose his dad's side for even a second. At least Oliver shoots criminals, Malcolm killed their family friends.

I liked them acknowledging that Oliver is killing less and less people now. Diggle and Felicity did manage to get into him. I also liked seeing Oliver having Diggle's back for once and accepting to go after Deadshot and make this their priority.

We're so going to see the Count again.. the only question is Seth's availability with the new ABC pilot he's shooting.
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#2823

Conell

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 3:30 AM

Actually liked Laurel tonight. I really do think Katie Cassidy is good, when her material isn't lame.


When her material is better thats when I see clearly how weak an actress she is. The writing fluctuates between good and bad, but she never changes, always poor performances or at least not anything groundbreaking/breathtaking, always the same, forgettable imo. I guess what I find missing from her scenes the most is emotion, there is no warmth to the actress. The script is saying how much she helps people, gives "inspirational speeches", believe the good in people blah blah but the actress just aint bringing that empathy and other emotions across.

The difference between KC and Colin Donnell is striking, whenever he occasionally get good material too like this episode, he rises to the challenge as Tommy and brings it imo.



When Shado and Slade were fighting, I was surprised Ollie didn't tell them to get a room. Yowza.


The island scenes are getting awesome with those three. Yes island Ollie is a total dumb dork, he is funny too. Like the contrast between him and the broody Slade.


Somebody upthread said that Emily Bett Rickards must have the best agent because she always gets the best lines. Well, that held true tonight.


Do agents get to write lines for a character their client is playing or have a say in what shows write??

Edited by Conell, Apr 4, 2013 @ 4:50 AM.

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#2824

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:36 AM

Do agents get to write lines for a character their client is playing or have a say in what shows write??

I think this is a joke..

I liked Laurel in this episode too and as for Tommy, if they intend to kill one of the Merlyns this season, I prefer Tommy to have a heroic death while attempting to stop his father than to see him turning evil after Oliver kills his father. A girl can dream, right?
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#2825

ivn

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 8:14 AM

I don't think Merlyn Sr. will be dying anytime soon. If he did, I think his "Undertaking" would die with him since none of his co-conspiritors seem to have the stomach for it anymore.
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#2826

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 9:27 AM

I don't think Merlyn Sr. will be dying anytime soon. If he did, I think his "Undertaking" would die with him since none of his co-conspiritors seem to have the stomach for it anymore.

I think they are aware of Barrowman's popularity and hope they can find a way to include him next season too because of that, but I don't think they'll keep him because of the Undertaking.
Spoiler

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#2827

KalEl

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 9:59 AM

I'm glad that they continue to show that Tommy has serious ethical problems with what Oliver does.


So they've gone from Tommy being horrified by it, to not caring to back to being horrified by it. I did enjoy them calling out Oliver for basically being nuts and unable to see any perspective outside of his crazy black & white view of the world and being utterly hypocritical with Diggle. His whole mission is more about his family than actual concern for the city and he's giving Diggle shit for putting his own family based mission first?

Speaking of nuts, because Diggle is crazy too you forget how crazy Oliver is until he's talking to someone normal like Felicity and you see her reacting to him. Now the question is, why is someone sane hanging out in a basement with these two nutjobs. We've seen Tommy do what any normal person would do and walk away.

That said, I find it hard to believe that Oliver wouldn't have already taken care of the secret lair issue long before the club opened. That was pure contrivance to provide drama to push Tommy out when it was totally unnecessary. I'm pretty sure learning your best friend is a stone cold killer and then being assaulted by his equally murderous ex-girlfriend was enough for him to take a walk. The idea that Tommy might still be a bad boy bringing out the crazy in Oliver was poorly handled and should have been the actual focus of the episode.

One day of water training? Are you kidding? At least have it be a week later. C'mon! This is also the problem with Tommy taking the Lex Luthor/Harry Osborn turn. It would take years for him to be a viable threat to Oliver. It's more likely Meryln Sr. will accidentally kill his own son and then blame Oliver for it, kicking him into crazy super-villain overdrive.

Edited by KalEl, Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:06 AM.

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#2828

ScorpioGirl2

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:16 AM

Gotta disagree with the Oliver being hypocritical comment; if Oliver acted like Diggle he would have abandoned the list and focused on who sabotaged the yacht instead.Oliver truly believes in saving the city and Deadshot is not important to him now because he isn't in Starling city now.

Good episode.I hope Tommy changes his mind and returns to the club.
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#2829

Cynthia187

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:27 AM

In control club owner Tommy was hot! I wanted to kick Oliver for being an ass.
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#2830

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:27 AM

Did I miss something about a lot of time passing, or did Oliver go from not being able to draw the bow to being easily able to do it in a few hours of slapping the water?

I wondered the same thing. I'm going to fill a bowl with water so that I will have enough hand strength to begin my archery practice tomorrow.

I know everyone made a big deal about Stephen Amell doing that salmon ladder at the beginning of the season but I am even more excited about Celina Jade's handstand to splits to front walkover. Strength, flexibility, balance, grace, and control. And all at the ripe old age of 27!
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#2831

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:36 AM

I wondered the same thing. I'm going to fill a bowl with water so that I will have enough hand strength to begin my archery practice tomorrow.

LMAO, let's all fill bowls of water together. :)

if Oliver acted like Diggle he would have abandoned the list and focused on who sabotaged the yacht instead.

That reminds me we didn't hear about the yacht since Oliver found this wasn't an accident. Why isn't he looking into it?

It's more likely Meryln Sr. will accidentally kill his own son and then blame Oliver for it, kicking him into crazy super-villain overdrive.

That's the scenario that I prefer. It'll end the Oliver\Tommy\Laurel triangle talk, Malcolm is already crazy enough and I think he has plenty of potential left as a big-bad, and Tommy getting killed will serve as a good excuse to drive Laurel into the path of becoming the Black Canary.
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#2832

gazebogrl

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:40 AM

I'm very upset at the massive falling out between Tommy and Oliver. I didn't understand why Oliver did not defend Tommy to Quentin over the embezzled money that may have supposedly been used for buying drugs. But now that I think about it, Oliver and Tommy probably ran around doing drugs and drink before Oliver went on that ill-fated boat trip. Of course it's not a surprise when Oliver just stares at Tommy disapprovingly. And of course Tommy has every right to be angry because he's changed into a responsible adult and Oliver didn't recognize that. It's painful to see their brotherly relationship go to hell. It's nice to see that Tommy could go back home to dad, but it's not so nice when you know that Tommy's dad is not a good guy and that he's the Dark Archer. Still not enough of John Barrowman on the Show......damn! I'm curious to see how Tommy will cope when he finds out that Dad is an evil dude! He'll have to rethink his judgemental attitude towards Oliver and see how strong or how weak his moral center is concerning his father.

You mean if a person can slap a bowl of water all day long, he'll be able to draw a bow? That made me laugh. This reminded me of all those goofy Chinese kung fu (Run Run Shaw) movies I use to watch as a kid, especially the movies where the teacher tells the student to carry buckets of water and run up and down the stairs before the teacher would teach the student anything.

Did Tommy carry all those boxes of wine by himself to the downstair basement/secret lair of Arrow? Did anyone help him carry all those boxes? If so, who? Was it ever found out who was the one that embezzeled the money from the club? I mean, $20,000 was missing, who did it if it was not Tommy or Oliver? Will these things ever be adequately explained?
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#2833

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:43 AM

Tommy used the $10K to bribe the inspector.
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#2834

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:45 AM

Was it ever found out who was the one that embezzeled the money from the club? I mean, $20,000 was missing, who did it if it was not Tommy or Oliver? Will these things ever be adequately explained?

It was already answered in this episode. Tommy supposedly used that money to bribe the inspector from inspecting the club in order to hide the Arrow cave's existence. Apparently he forgot to notify Oliver on this..
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#2835

Sakura12

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 1:06 PM

Oliver is a huge hypocrite. He pretty much tells everyone that only people on the list can die and only he can kill them. them. Everyone else can't kill people no matter what their reason is. Killing the Count was definitely personal, he kept saying that the Count almost killed his sister. So with that logic, Helena's dad killed her boyfriend and Deadshot killed Diggle's brother. So they should be able to kill them.

Helena and Diggle are just as crazy as he is, so none of them should be killing people. Oliver's a hypocrite because he thinks he's in the right and both of them are wrong.

Also I really don't think Oliver's father meant for him to go around murdering people. So he took that to the extreme because he went crazy on the island and needs serious help. However he is finally learning that killing people is bad and made the decision to not kill a man that's pretty much a walking zombie. So I guess it's baby steps.

I thought the water slapping thing was to teach discipline (with how long he would he keep doing it) not to be able to pull a bow string back. That's what most that running up a hill with pails of water is for. If you do something like that it shows your dedication to learning the craft and how far you are willing to push yourself. My karate teacher would make us hold our arms to the sides and hang folding chairs on each one, then would add more chairs just to see if we would push through the pain and continue to hold our arms up.
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#2836

stealinghome

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 1:13 PM

How... Harry Osborn of him.

It's been years since I saw that movie but didn't Harry Osborn not know the identity of Spiderman nor what his father did when he chose his side?

You're correct: in the Spiderman movies, Harry doesn't know that Peter is Spiderman (nor that Peter killed Norman in self-defense). It's a BFD when he finds out. Tommy knowing Oliver's secret makes a Harry Osborne trajectory for his character virtually impossible.

I forgot to add that I liked Laurel and Det. Lance last night (though I agree they don't seem to know what to do with the latter). Those two have become really believable as quasi-estranged father and daughter, and their relationship is a great counterbalance to Oliver and Moira.
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#2837

dubbel zout

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 1:59 PM

I almost felt sorry for Quentin when he asked Laurel if he'd messed up their relationship again by serving the search warrant on the club.

It'd be nice if Katie Cassidy could (or would) move her forehead.
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#2838

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 2:39 PM

Press release for episode 1.20

ARROW — (8:00–9:00 p.m. ET)
“Home Invasion” (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DEADSHOT (GUEST STAR MICHAEL ROWE) FIRES OFF A NEW ROUND IN STARLING CITY — Deadshot (guest star Michael Rowe) returns to Starling City after taking down a U.S. Ambassador and six others overseas. By keeping tabs on A.R.G.U.S.’s manhunt for the assassin, Oliver (Stephen Amell), Diggle (David Ramsey), and Felicity (guest star Emily Bett Rickards) learn that a sting operation is underway to capture Deadshot – alive. Diggle is determined to see his brother’s killer dead, with or without Ollie’s help. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) takes drastic steps to protect a young witness, exacerbating friction between Tommy (Colin Donnell) and Oliver. Later, Roy Harper (guest star Colton Haynes) unconventionally pursues all leads to find his new hero, but runs afoul of Detective Lance (Paul Blackthorne). Back on the island, Oliver recalls how Shado (guest star Celina Jade) helped him incrementally gain confidence with a bow and hit the target for the first time. Willa Holland and Susanna Thompson also star. Manu Bennett, Byron Mann and Audrey Marie Anderson guest star. Ken Fink directed the episode written by Ben Sokolowski & Beth Schwartz (#120).



Tommy knowing Oliver's secret makes a Harry Osborne trajectory for his character virtually impossible.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Of course it won't stop the comparison between the two..

It'd be nice if Katie Cassidy could (or would) move her forehead.

Hee, good to know I'm not the only one that thinks that.

I'd actually like Quentin to find Oliver's secret and I'd like them to work on cases together, but I don't think Quentin is ready for that yet.. maybe in the next season.

Edited by LisaJ, Apr 4, 2013 @ 2:42 PM.

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#2839

emma675

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 2:41 PM

That reminds me we didn't hear about the yacht since Oliver found this wasn't an accident. Why isn't he looking into it?

And what of Walter? Are they even still looking for him?
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#2840

AudienceofOne

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:01 PM

I wasn't really bothered by Diggle hooking up with his late brother's widow before, but I did squirm a little at her kid calling him "Uncle John".


At this scene, my brother did a perfect Dig voice and said, "Call me Daddy" and it was all kinds of wrong.

And please tell me that arrow Ollie shot at the car had an explosive tip, because otherwise dear god.


It was one of his bomb arrows. Not to be confused with his recording arrows, his money-transferring arrows or his tranq arrows.

LMAO, let's all fill bowls of water together. :)


Forget the gym. My water slapping routine starts tomorrow.

I enjoyed this episode. In the first half of this season I disliked the island flashbacks as I thought they were superfluous, convoluted and didn't add anything to the plot. But now they're fantastic and I look forward to them. Felicity continues to rock - her brownie story was hilarious. The only thing was that it was a poorly directed episode and some of the directing choices threw me out of the story.
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#2841

TheLabRat

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:13 PM

In the first half of this season I disliked the island flashbacks as I thought they were superfluous, convoluted and didn't add anything to the plot. But now they're fantastic and I look forward to them.



Totally. I didn't hate them or anything but they threw of the episode pacing the first few times around. They are really meshing well now, though. My love of Manu Bennett absolutely does not bias me in any way in this regard. Nope nope nope.

Edited by TheLabRat, Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:14 PM.

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#2842

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:44 PM

Arrow Producer And Cast Tease What's To Come (spoilers)
Spoiler


In the first half of this season I disliked the island flashbacks as I thought they were superfluous, convoluted and didn't add anything to the plot. But now they're fantastic and I look forward to them.

I think the worst flashback was in episode 6, where IIRC we saw the ghost of Oliver's dad.. There are still times where I less like the flashbacks, like in episode 16, but overall in most recent episodes they were fun. It's also easier to relate to Oliver then than to Oliver now.
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#2843

AudienceofOne

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 8:42 PM

I think the worst flashback was in episode 6, where IIRC we saw the ghost of Oliver's dad


That went on forreeevvverr and raised the question - did Oliver's father really tell him to put right his family's wrongs or was it just his hallucination Daddy who did? As far as I remember, there was no "dying wish" except for the one his own fevered dying mind created.
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#2844

Lantern7

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Posted Apr 4, 2013 @ 11:18 PM

Good episode. Nice fakeout with "Count Vertigo" not being directly involved in the Vertigo upswing. Getting tired of Mr. Merlyn only popping up in the end of episodes. When Tommy finds out his dad is Dark Archer? He might wind up sharing a room with The Count.

And what of Walter? Are they even still looking for him?


I know, right? At least give us fifteen seconds of Felicity doing Walter-hunting stuff.

At this scene, my brother did a perfect Dig voice and said, "Call me Daddy" and it was all kinds of wrong.


I was thinking along those lines, minus the Diggle voice. Your brother has excellent comedic timing, AudienceOfOne.
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#2845

Miss Kubelik

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 12:17 AM

De-lurking to give my compliments to the Arrow writers for including maybe my favorite line from Hitchcock's Vertigo as one of the Count's psychotic ramblings:

"Here I was born, and there I died. It was only a moment for you; you took no notice."

Well done, sirs and madams!

Edited by Miss Kubelik, Apr 5, 2013 @ 12:18 AM.

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#2846

Conell

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 4:32 AM

This is also the problem with Tommy taking the Lex Luthor/Harry Osborn turn. It would take years for him to be a viable threat to Oliver. It's more likely Meryln Sr. will accidentally kill his own son and then blame Oliver for it, kicking him into crazy super-villain overdrive.


Well he is not really needed as a threat right now, maybe season 3/4 down the line. Lex luthor e.g took several season for his villainness to fully raise its head. Oliver can have other threats in the meantime, maybe Deathstroke for next season, with Manu Bennett being a regular next season.


Oliver is a huge hypocrite. He pretty much tells everyone that only people on the list can die and only he can kill them. them. Everyone else can't kill people no matter what their reason is. Killing the Count was definitely personal, he kept saying that the Count almost killed his sister. So with that logic, Helena's dad killed her boyfriend and Deadshot killed Diggle's brother. So they should be able to kill them.
Helena and Diggle are just as crazy as he is, so none of them should be killing people. Oliver's a hypocrite because he thinks he's in the right and both of them are wrong.


Speaking of hypocrites, Diggle too is one, to Helena.

Edited by Conell, Apr 5, 2013 @ 4:42 AM.

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#2847

Dicer3

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:07 AM

if Oliver acted like Diggle he would have abandoned the list and focused on who sabotaged the yacht instead.


That reminds me we didn't hear about the yacht since Oliver found this wasn't an accident. Why isn't he looking into it?


And what of Walter? Are they even still looking for him?


Oliver specifically asks Diggle to lay off the investigation. Another reason for why Oliver is a hypocrite. He knows his mother is involved in Walter's disappearance and the missing yacht. But he does not want to confront the criminal when it's his own family.

The minute the story comes back to Walter and the yacht, Oliver would have to address the tape Diggle secretly records where Moira is talking about the salvaged yacht. And of course his mother lied to him about the book with the list that Walter found and handed over to Felicity.

Edited by Dicer3, Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:08 AM.

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#2848

KalEl

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:17 AM

That's the scenario that I prefer. It'll end the Oliver\Tommy\Laurel triangle talk, Malcolm is already crazy enough and I think he has plenty of potential left as a big-bad, and Tommy getting killed will serve as a good excuse to drive Laurel into the path of becoming the Black Canary.


Okay, now we've got two good reasons for Tommy to die. Can I get three?

Oliver is a huge hypocrite.


Speaking of hypocrites, Diggle too is one, to Helena.


Neither Oliver nor Diggle is a hypocrite, THEY'RE BOTH JUST BAT-SHIT CRAZY! I cannot stress this enough.
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#2849

LisaJ

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:35 AM

He knows his mother is involved in Walter's disappearance and the missing yacht. But he does not want to confront the criminal when it's his own family.

Except that Moira is not the criminal in those particular cases, she wasn't even part of The Undertaking when the yacht was sabotaged (she replaced Robert after he disappeared but wasn't part of it before,) and I think she had no choice but to accept Walter getting kidnapped in hopes that Malcolm would then let him live.

I hope Oliver confronts his mother because I think she'll come clean when she learns his identity and finds he can take care of himself. Now she's constantly lying to him to protect him and that's not helping either of them.

As far as I remember, there was no "dying wish" except for the one his own fevered dying mind created.

I remember he did tell him something about saving the city before he shot himself but I'll have to watch that part again to remember.
I personally wish the show would get back to Oliver's relationship with his dad. Oliver found his dad carried a gun and saw his dad killing his bodygound before shooting himself, he should have as much daddy issues as Tommy has. I feel like they barely touched the surface of Oliver's feelings for his dad when he told Tommy he had a lot of anger at him in episode 1.16, and I personally would like Oliver to talk to either Felicity or Laurel and open up to one of them about his dad.

Neither Oliver nor Diggle is a hypocrite

MTE :)

Edited by LisaJ, Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:36 AM.

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#2850

RandomMe

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Posted Apr 5, 2013 @ 12:41 PM

Also I really don't think Oliver's father meant for him to go around murdering people.

Oliver found his dad carried a gun and saw his dad killing his bodyguard before shooting himself, he should have as much daddy issues as Tommy has.

I'll need to look at it again, but I'm pretty sure the "right my wrongs/save our city" speech emanated from the moment when Oliver's dad shot someone in front of Oliver and then shot himself, after giving clear instruction that he was doing this to save Oliver's life for a specific purpose. He may not have meant for Oliver to turn into a crazy, murdering vigilante, but he sure didn't give him any jump start on a sane approach to that mission.
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