Jump to content

Arrow


  • Please log in to reply

15047 replies to this topic

#1

Chas411

Chas411

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 4:51 PM

Couldn't find a thread for it but I'm excited and wanted to find fellow fans. TWOP listed it as one of more promising shows for the upcoming season based on the trailer.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ViFb0paKdgg
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3pNNaAZRsO0
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=l-GmfyLV45Q

Starring:

Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen/Green Arrow
Colin Donnell as Tommy Merlyn
Katie Cassidy as Dinah "Laurel" Lance
David Ramsey as John Diggle
Willa Holland as Thea Queen
Jamey Sheridan as Robert Queen
Susanna Thompson as Moira Queen
Paul Blackthorne as Detective Quentin Lance


Have to say I'm especially excited about the return of Willa Holland to television.And I think Katie Cassidy is long overdue a series regular gig.
  • 0

#2

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 5:03 PM

I love Stephen Amell so I'm really looking forward to this series. Judging by previews, it looks a bit darker in tone. More like CW's other show Nikita than Smallville and that makes me happy. I have to say I'm not crazy about the prospect of Katie Cassidy as Dinah Lance though. I've seen a number of things that she has been in and I haven't been all that impressed with most of her performances. I'll admit though that Dinah is one of my favorite female comic characters and because of that I tend to set my expectations pretty high. I liked the previous actress who played her, Alaina Huffman, but she's probably a bit too old now for this project.
  • 0

#3

Chas411

Chas411

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 5:22 PM

I don't mind Katie's casting, she can bring a lot of feistiness to her roles and once they don't Lana Lang her, I think she'll be ok.

I'm really excited about Willa Holland though, I've loved her since she rocked into the failing OC. I feel like she's been missing for years.

Overall I like the older tone the show is giving off, I just hope that it won't hurt the ratings as the CW is largely tween orientated no?
  • 0

#4

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 5, 2012 @ 6:19 PM

I don't mind Katie's casting, she can bring a lot of feistiness to her roles and once they don't Lana Lang her, I think she'll be ok.


That's my big concern, that they'll pull a Lana Lang with her character. Since these are different showrunners from Smallville though so I'll reserve judgment. For the most part I like Greg Berlanti's work so I have a lot more faith in him than I do Gough and Millar.
  • 0

#5

Slingblade

Slingblade

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 11:26 AM

Funnily enough, the only reason I heard about this show is that I was obsessively reading every possible bit of information on the CW's renewal/cancellation decisions this year, trying to figure out Nikita's fate. (Which, it got renewed, yay!) Obviously, that included the pilots the CW ordered and those they picked up.

However, after seeing the promos and reading quite a lot about it, I'm pretty excited for Arrow. I'm all sorts of ready for a dark, thrilling action show about a superhero who kicks some serious ass. People mock it for trying to imitate The Dark Knight and the Bourne trilogy, but since these are among my favorite movies, ever, that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I'm all for this gritty, more grown-up style.

Of course, the CW being what it is - my fear is that we'll instead get 32 minutes of the heroes' contrived drama and love lives in each episode, and 10 minutes of action scenes/stuff that has to do with the actual plot. Having read so much about the CW lately, it seems like their new president Mark Pedowitz is a vast improvement over Dawn Ostroff and aims to broaden the network's appeal, making it more friendly to older viewers. That's probably smart, because their ratings are horrendous and unless they pull off a successful overhaul, they won't survive past 2016 (which is when their contract with their affiliates ends). With him renewing Nikita despite its crappy ratings (which, THANK YOU MARK) and bringing in some interesting shows that target a more adult audience, like Arrow and Cult, I do have some faith in Pedowitz. Let's hope it's justified.
  • 0

#6

nicole8705

nicole8705

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 1:32 PM

I don't mind Katie's casting, she can bring a lot of feistiness to her roles and once they don't Lana Lang her, I think she'll be ok.


Does the CW have Katie on lease or something? I love her but its crazy how 90% of her work seems to come from CW shows.
  • 0

#7

ElymianDucat

ElymianDucat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

The CW inherited the WB's predilection for recycling actors.

Add me to the list of people worried about the casting of Katie. I still remember her in Supernatural and she wasn't very convincing as an ass-kicker.
  • 2

#8

Chas411

Chas411

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 4:10 PM

I think Katie is in a difficult position either way as the female lead in any show (especially action/superheo) always comes under scrutiny. Unfortunetly so many past shows have Mary Sue and Lana Lang'd them to death so it's almost impossible to like them. I've found Katie likeable in most her work (at the very least she gives it her all) so I think this will be a case of writing being on her side.

I love her but its crazy how 90% of her work seems to come from CW shows.


I feel like her and Arielle Kebbel are all over the network for some reason.
  • 0

#9

ElymianDucat

ElymianDucat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 4:47 PM

I think Katie is in a difficult position either way as the female lead in any show (especially action/superheo) always comes under scrutiny. Unfortunetly so many past shows have Mary Sue and Lana Lang'd them to death so it's almost impossible to like them

I'm not refering to her likeability or lack thereof. She can be the most charismatic and likeable character in the show, for all I know, but that will not make her a convincing action hero. Conversely, there are plenty of unlikeable characters that get on everybody's last nerve, but you still have no problem accepting the fact that they are very competent in the fighting and shooting department.

It's matter of good casting coupled with good writing. Look at Nikita in the same network, for example. Leaving Maggie Q aside because of her extensive previous experience playing badasses in movies, let's focus on Lyndsy Fonseca. As far as I can tell she had zero experience playing action heroes, and yet she's absolutely convincing. She can be intimidating. You can buy that this is a girl that can kick your ass.

The same cannot be said of Katie's role in Supernatural, which is the one by which I'm judging her badass bona fides. Nothing in her body language in the action scenes in that show was in the least bit conductive to one saying "Yeah... I can picture her beating someone up".

Edited by ElymianDucat, Jun 6, 2012 @ 4:51 PM.

  • 0

#10

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 6, 2012 @ 5:13 PM

t's matter of good casting coupled with good writing. Look at Nikita in the same network, for example. Leaving Maggie Q aside because of her extensive previous experience playing badasses in movies, let's focus on Lyndsy Fonseca. As far as I can tell she had zero experience playing action heroes, and yet she's absolutely convincing. She can be intimidating. You can buy that this is a girl that can kick your ass.

The same cannot be said of Katie's role in Supernatural, which is the one by which I'm judging her badass bona fides. Nothing in her body language in the action scenes in that show was in the least bit conductive to one saying "Yeah... I can picture her beating someone up".


Lyndsy Fonseca is a good example because before Nikita I remembered her most for being the ingenue on The Young and the Restless. If you had told me then that she would go on to kick so much ass on Nikita I wouldn't have believed you. Now because of that I am willing to at least be open-minded to finding out if Katie Cassidy can prove me wrong. I didn't see her stint on Supernatural so I don't know how she did there.

For me, their are a couple of factors at play that color my bias when it comes to Katie Cassidy playing this character. One being that this particular character is an established comic book character that I am very fond of. Another, is that I am so used to the abysmal CW/Smallville way of writing these DC female characters and they tend to Mary Sue the hell out of them or make them the distressed damsel type. One of the only ones I actually did end up liking was Smallville's version of Dinah who was played by an older, more athletically built actress. This will be the CW's third try with the Dinah Lance character(after Birds of Prey and Smallville)and if they ruin Dinah Lance for me I don't know if I will be as forgiving this time.

From a writing standpoint, it's going to really piss me off if we get episode after episode of Oliver having to come to Dinah's rescue. Dinah is more than capable of taking care of herself. She is a fellow superhero on the same level as Green Arrow, both are members of the Justice League and Dinah is also a member of Birds of Prey so I hope they stay from making her too helpless to serve the plot of the week.

Edited by Turkish, Jun 6, 2012 @ 5:22 PM.

  • 0

#11

Slingblade

Slingblade

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 2:22 AM

New extended trailer - much more detailed. We see Oliver's mother for the first time, more interaction with family/friends, and Katie/Laurel finally getting some lines.

It's still looking cool. I'm not crazy about the heavy emphasis on Stephen Amell's half-naked, chiseled body, but then, the promos for Nikita were all about Maggie Q in a bikini, and it's actually one of the best shows on TV (with a kickass female lead who rarely wears revealing outfits or relies on her sexuality). I've learned by now to separate how a show is being promoted from how it's going to be written, since the marketing department obviously only cares about appealing to the lowest common denominator. The creative team involved, however, may genuinely be out to make a quality show, which the promotion doesn't necessarily reflect.

I don't mind Katie's casting, she can bring a lot of feistiness to her roles and once they don't Lana Lang her, I think she'll be ok.


I've only ever seen Katie on SPN, where she started off mediocre (though not horrible) but improved considerably later, IMO. I'm willing to keep an open mind about her on this show (on a shallow note, she's really pretty as a brunette). My bigger concern is, like Turkish, that she'll be a helpless damsel in distress who Oliver has to save every week. That's the last thing I want to see. In the comic universe, the character is (to my understanding) a skilled martial artist who can hold her own. She should work with Arrow once she learns his identity, instead of constantly needing to be saved. Similarly, since we know
Spoiler
, I hope that when she inevitably sides with Oliver, it's because she agrees with his ideology rather than because she lurrrrves him so much.
  • 0

#12

Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 9:27 AM

In the comic universe, the character is (to my understanding) a skilled martial artist who can hold her own.


She does a bit more than "hold her own" she's the superior hand-to-hand fighter of the two and has an actual super power on top of that. Black Canary was also an established hero independent of Green Arrow. If she's relegated to a simple love interest/damsel role on this show it'd be a pretty huge betrayal of the character.
  • 0

#13

ElymianDucat

ElymianDucat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:04 AM

New extended trailer - much more detailed. We see Oliver's mother for the first time, more interaction with family/friends, and Katie/Laurel finally getting some lines.

I find that trailer very reassuring with regards to the show in general. It seems that the tone and action will be closer to Nikita than to Smallville.

The only thing I didn’t like is that the trailer pretty much implies that Katie Cassidy’s character is going to be Dinah Lance in name only. Not even the tiniest hint that she’s a badass. 100% damsel in distress love interest. This is no Black Canary.

Not good. Gail Simone is going to blow a gasket.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:05 AM.

  • 0

#14

caitlin claire

caitlin claire

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:15 AM

I'm not in love with the voiceover stuff that was in the clip, but the promos are OK and I'm still more interested in this than any of the CW's other pilots. I'm probably going to reserve any and all judgement until we see full episodes. With the CW's track record, it could go either way.
  • 0

#15

ElymianDucat

ElymianDucat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:37 AM

I think that this is a case in which the show would benefit from deviating even more from the source material. If they have already changed Dinah so much, then they might as well go all the way and split her into two separate characters.

Keep Katie’s character as Dinah “Laurel” Lance the love interest and cast someone else later on as Black Canary, the Arrow’s fellow vigilante.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:38 AM.

  • 0

#16

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:38 AM

The only thing I didn’t like is that the trailer pretty much implies that Katie Cassidy’s character is going to be Dinah Lance in name only. Not even the tiniest hint that she’s a badass. 100% damsel in distress love interest. This is no Black Canary.

Not good. Gail Simone is going to blow a gasket.


Oh, man. That's not good. Black Canary is so fierce. This woman was on the Justice League with Wonder Woman for crying out loud and is best buddies with Barbara Gordon(Batgirl/Oracle). Hell, she lead the Justice League on many occasions(taking over for Wonder Woman), is the current leader of Birds of Prey and has trained other well-known superheroes. Please show, don't fuck up this character.

A little history on Black Canary

Edited by Turkish, Jun 7, 2012 @ 10:40 AM.

  • 0

#17

rove3

rove3

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 11:25 AM

Funnily enough, the only reason I heard about this show is that I was obsessively reading every possible bit of information on the CW's renewal/cancellation decisions this year, trying to figure out Nikita's fate. (Which, it got renewed, yay!) Obviously, that included the pilots the CW ordered and those they picked up.


Ditto for me (and yes, yay!, for Nikita's renewal). The trailer looks interesting and, I must be honest, the abs DID catch my attention but I also liked the overall darker look of it. I never watched Smallville though so what do the references to "not Lana Lang her" mean?
  • 0

#18

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 11:36 AM

IMO, Lana Lang was the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues. The girl had very few personality traits, was the perpetual damsel in distress and her mere existence seemed to only be as the love interest for Clark. She was Bella Swann before people even knew who that was. Just a giant writing fail when it comes to female tv characters.
  • 0

#19

rove3

rove3

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 11:47 AM

She was Bella Swann before people even knew who that was.


Ah, got it. *shudder* Hopefully these writers won't go that route. And since the Dinah/Black Canary dichotomy already exists in the comic books then there is a definite template for the writers to follow that should hopefully allow them to avoid the Lana Lang/Bella Swan syndrome. Even if Dinah in the show does not start out as Black Canary it's possible that she will evolve into that superhero identity throughout the course of the show. Maybe?
  • 0

#20

Angela627

Angela627

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 12:17 PM

I wasn't sure about this show when I first heard it but now I'm actually very excited. I agree that it seems more Nikita than Smallville and if that is the case, bring it on! Just yes, please don't Lana Lang anyone.
  • 0

#21

caitlin claire

caitlin claire

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 6:14 PM

Just a note about Dinah - the promo footage is most likely taken entirely from the pilot. They may very well not want to introduce another 'super hero' in the same ep they're trying to estabish their lead in. So the promos may or may not be a great indicator of where her story will go long term.
  • 0

#22

Chas411

Chas411

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 6:21 PM

It wouldn't shock me if they left the Black Canary stuff until season two and establish Arrow as a super hero first.

Wasn't feeling Laurel too much in the trailer, seems a bit Mary Sueish for me. Wasn't feeling the mother either but that was moreso the actress then the character.

I'm hoping the two breakout characters might be Tommy and Thea.
  • 0

#23

Slingblade

Slingblade

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 2:16 AM

It's my understanding that the character of Oliver's sister, Thea, didn't exist in the comics. Why would they add her? She doesn't seem relevant to the storyline. I just hope it's not to add some teenage drama to the mix and attract the young female audience the CW generally caters to. The last thing a dark action/thriller show needs is an angsty teen with drug abuse problems, or whatever.

For the record, I don't mind Willa Holland. I've only ever seen her on The O.C., and while her acting was weak at first, she did improve. I just don't see the need for this character. Of course, this is all speculation; there's no real way to tell what her role in the story is until the show airs.

Just a note about Dinah - the promo footage is most likely taken entirely from the pilot. They may very well not want to introduce another 'super hero' in the same ep they're trying to estabish their lead in. So the promos may or may not be a great indicator of where her story will go long term.


That's a good point. The footage is indeed all from the Pilot, since they've only just started filming additional episodes (obviously, they wouldn't have done that before CW picked up the series, which was recently). Let's hope there's more to her character than we've seen so far.

I was annoyed with Laurel's whole "That's what happens when your sister dies while screwing your boyfriend" rant - Oliver having slept with her sister feels dangerously like the soap opera, cheesy drama-ish storytelling the show needs to stay the hell away from. However, they may only be doing that to establish what an asshole playboy type Oliver was pre-shipwreck, and how different he is now (also illustrated by the old footage shown on the news, where younger Oliver rather amusingly goes, "Get your *beep* camera out of my *beep* face!").
  • 0

#24

Featherhat

Featherhat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 3:31 AM

It's my understanding that the character of Oliver's sister, Thea, didn't exist in the comics. Why would they add her? She doesn't seem relevant to the storyline. I just hope it's not to add some teenage drama to the mix and attract the young female audience the CW generally caters to. The last thing a dark action/thriller show needs is an angsty teen with drug abuse problems, or whatever


I would guess she's there to potentially add in "teen drama" aspects if/when the CW considers it necessary. ;) Probably also to add to the family dynamic and drama of a lost brother returning home and turing himself into a vilgilanty superhero. I can't decided whether wanting this to be "dark and gritty" makes it more or less likely the CW will want to include "troubled rich teen" storylines that Willa Holland is admitted good at playing.

I'm on a wait and see mode with both Thea and "Laurel" neither impress me overly on paper or in the trailers but both are played by likeable, capable actresses and they seem like the kind of characters who's roles could be expanded after the origin story in the pilot and first few eps is taken care of. And I agree that I really hope that Laurel is more than a damsel in distress. KC strikes me as someone who can kick ass if required, but it would suck if she's dsetined to be the Lana Lang.

The trailers definitely established my interest in this so I hope they pull it off.

Edited by Featherhat, Jun 8, 2012 @ 3:34 AM.

  • 0

#25

Blisters

Blisters

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 12:12 PM

I'm on a wait and see mode with both Thea and "Laurel" neither impress me overly on paper or in the trailers but both are played by likeable, capable actresses and they seem like the kind of characters who's roles could be expanded after the origin story in the pilot and first few eps is taken care of. And I agree that I really hope that Laurel is more than a damsel in distress. KC strikes me as someone who can kick ass if required, but it would suck if she's dsetined to be the Lana Lang.

Okay, so I know pretty much nothing of Green Arrow except that he exists (I really don't know my superheroes) and the trailer for this has drawn me in, but I hope Laurel is a good, kickass character too. Katie Cassidy is brilliant at playing characters with some fire in them, and was one of the only good things about Season 4 of Gossip Girl. I caught her in one episode of that dreadful Melrose Place remake too, and she seemed like she was that show's saving grace. So for her sake I hope Laurel turns out to be a great character, because she is long overdue that breakout role.
  • 0

#26

Agent Dark

Agent Dark

    Video Archivist

Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 7:14 AM

Green Arrow without a goatee and 'stache is not Green Arrow :\ I don't like how DC rebooted him when they did their universe wide reboot last year - he's just a really lame Batman now (kinda ironic since I think he was originally created as a deliberate Batman clone in the '40s). At least they're going with his 'stranded on a island' origin.

Coming from a comics POV, I've always thought Green Arrow worked best when he was abit of a dick. No-one really 'liked' him, despite the fact that he was on the Justice League, but he was likeable as a character because he was un-likable (if that makes sense). I also liked that he tended to voice very left-wing/progressive political opinions, and frequently riled up the more conservative Justice League members (particularly Green Lantern). Not that I really care about left or right wing politics or anything, but it made for some good banter and friction between him and other Justice League'ers. I wonder how closely they'll follow his comic characterisation...

I really hope they don't screw up Black Canary though. She's an awesome character in the comics (just ignore her rather convoluted history though lol. Most of that is out of continuity anyway). Black Canary in the comics is one of the DC Universe's most proficient martial artists - and this is a group that includes Batman himself. She might not be quite at his level, but her "Canary Cry" (a super-sonic scream that can shatter steel) gives her quite an edge. I'm not sure I'm filled with much confidence based on those trailers though :( I quite liked Smallville's version of her. If they can get something like that going, I'd be pretty happy.

Edited by Agent Dark, Jun 11, 2012 @ 7:15 AM.

  • 0

#27

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 8:55 AM

One thing that stood out me in the trailers about the Dinah Lance character is that they didn't keep Katie Cassidy a blonde for this role. Dinah Lance has always been a blonde. It's one of the most iconic things about her, like Wonder Woman's black hair or Barbara Gordon's red hair. Why on Earth would they change that? Especially since it looks like the show is already filled with enough brunette's.
  • 0

#28

Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 9:54 AM

Actually Black Canary is a natural brunette in the comics; she used to wear a blonde wig as part of her superhero disguise, but now dyes her hair IIRC.
  • 0

#29

Turkish

Turkish

    Stalker

Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:27 AM

Yes, the original Black Canary wore a wig but she's been dying her hair for years and years. I think since at least the 80s when Dinah Laurel took over the Black Canary role from her mother. My point is all the images you ever see of Black Canary are of her with the long-blonde hair. She's even blonde in the cartoons. I suppose they could always change that in the show and have her wearing a wig to hide her identity, kind of like the way Batwoman does now where she has long hair with her costume but really short hair in everyday life.

Edited by Turkish, Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:41 AM.

  • 0

#30

ElymianDucat

ElymianDucat

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 10:35 AM

The hair color thing could be another indication that she's not going to be assuming the Black Canary identity for the time being on the show. The more I think about it the more I become convinced she's not going to be kicking anyone's ass for at least a season.
  • 0