18 replies to this topic

[SnideAsides]

I don't think we've ever seen a season start so well and then shoot itself in the foot so damn quickly.

From a challenge perspective, this started out above average. The accident in the first challenge was clearly more "freak coincidence" than "ignorant contestant" as the show would have us believe, and the return of separate reward challenges as early as the second episode (for the first time since CHINA) was very welcome. But then as soon as the tribes merged, we were "treated" to a bunch of copies of old challenges. It was nice to see the auction and Three Strikes again, but did we really need to see so many challenges recycled from the past few seasons? It's not like they were any good the first time. The very final challenge actually wasn't bad for a fine muscle control challenge, which makes a nice change, but it didn't feel like a final challenge.

What did you think?

[Yogurt Baron]

It's funny: I think I feel about this season how a lot of people feel about Thailand. Great winner, but very little to actually enjoy, mostly because the winner was so great that she made it look easy. My opinion may change in time, but I can't imagine ever wanting to watch this one again, and RI is the only other season I'd say that of. After a decade away from Survivor, I caught up on most of the seasons over the course of 2011, and Vanuatu and Cook Islands and Fiji and Pearl Islands are awesome even if you know who wins. I can't imagine One World would be. All it really has to offer is, "Is she going to pull this off?" Once you know she does, there's not much to enojy.

I agree with you about the challenges being weak (and could we get a new locale, for the love of little apples?), but from a gameplay perspective:

I don't think we've ever seen a season start so well and then shoot itself in the foot so damn quickly.

I disagree. I'd nominate everything before Colton left as being perhaps the worst stretch of the show - especially, but not exclusively, the parts actually involving Colton.

Early stuff I hated:

1. Colton.

2. Colton.

3. The increasing Hantzening of the show---complete focus on Colton with no time for anybody else. No credits, even in the first episode. Remember the first few seasons when they'd devote a few minutes - just a few seconds per castaway, that was all, to, "This is Ethan. He's a soccer player. Hi, Ethan!"? Not this year. Probably my least favourite non-Colton moment of the season was in the first episode when Alicia, who we'd never seen before, popped up and announced that she'd made an alliance with four people we'd also never seen before: Kim, Sabrina, Chelsea, and, as a fifth, "Kitty-Kat, who bugs me, but she knows she bugs me." Ever heard of "show, don't tell", Burnett? We hadn't seen or heard from any of these people. One of the strongest, most enduring alliances ever, and instead of actually watching it come together, we got to see its least-likable member recite a few meaningless, contextless names. And until Colton was gone, that's really all we saw of them. It was weeks before I could tell Kim, Chelsea, and Kat apart, and one of those people is one of the best to ever play.

3b. I direct you to Kim's first confessional. "I didn't plan to form an alliance right off the bat. I was just gonna lay low, but I think when the guys started stealing off the truck, that was a huge rivalry right off the bat. And when the guys did that, the girls were, like, women power! Which I'm not a big fan of, but I'm goin' with it...*laughs*...so...*trails off*." These are not the words of a mastermind (and I don't blame her for saying them---I blame editing for making them our first introduction to her). I think Kat is mostly smarter than this, never mind Kim. You "lay low" in this game, you become Monica, especially when you've got an Alicia Shane Powersing around and trying to make 39-day alliances in five seconds. And what in the hell being angry at the other tribe has to do with making sure you're in a power position within your own tribe, I'm not sure. But it's nice that when somebody invites you to be part of an alliance rather than get voted off second, you'll "go with it", even though it contradicts your earlier plan to "lay low" and get voted off second. And stop saying "right off the bat". But that was the narrative of the Colton-era One World: Colton is big and brassy and In Your Face, and everybody else can just go jump in the fire.

4. This year's token early boots were all either more passive or more annoying or dumber than usual. Couldn't stand Nina. Or Kourtney. Or any of the "roosters", including (as bad as I feel for him for having to put up with Colton) Bill---how about if a racist idiot is trying to take you out of the game, you don't give up immunity so that he can?

But then after Colton went, it was a whole new game. Bat Lady turned out to be a genius. They brought back the only challenge I've ever liked (rank your tribemates/coconut chop). So...below-average season for me, but at least they had a great winner.

[Constantinople]

There's already a thread for One World?

That reminds me of the article from the Onion.

...the U.S.'s exponentially decreasing retro gap is in danger of achieving parity with real-time historical events early in the next century, creating what leading retro experts call a "futurified recursion loop," or "retro-present warp," in the world of American pop-cultural kitsch appreciation. U.S. Dept. Of Retro Warns: 'We May Be Running Out Of Past', The Onion, November 4, 1997

I tend to agree, it probably won't be worth watching again once you know who won. In contrast, Cook Islands, which also had some of that aspect -- ex. can the Aitu 4 pull it off -- also had, IMO, one of the most beautiful locations; great challenges, whether it be Ozzy dominating or Yul figuring out the boat / cannon ball challenge; and some interesting characters, even if most of them went early.

Edited by Constantinople, May 15, 2012 @ 1:25 PM.

[Unconditional]

I actually re-watched the season between the 2nd-last episode and the finale. I have to say it's probably one of the best-edited seasons in the last 10 seasons in terms of comprehensiveness. We got a glimpse of everyone without blatantly ignoring someone or a handful of people. Tarzan didn't get many confessionals but he got plenty of screentime. The only two people that we didn't see or hear a lot from were Lief and Christina and I was fine with that because it's pretty clear neither one of them had any strategy, and Lief didn't even seem to understand the game despite being an longterm fan.

Everyone in the F3 were fleshed out and you knew exactly how they *could* have won if they did win, and you understood how or why they lost. Kim played wonderfully and we saw every aspect of her dominance. There weren't any mysteries in why people were voting the way they were (outside of wondering for a few episodes why Tarzan wouldn't work with the men at the merge) and there were somewhat less "obvious" boots this season. The show was very good about showing us how each bootee had produced their downfall and we understood why each person was being voted out when they were. I think there were also more genuine instances of humor instead of it feeling forced, and that really showed the human side to these people that we don't often get to see. The season also had one of the most "responsible" juries ever in that there were no visible grudges (I know people are still trying to force that narrative that Troy is bitter, but I think the finale makes it clear he wasn't) and they all didn't soapbox their speeches about how awesome they were and how much the F3 sucked. It was SO refreshing after last season's biblical bully pulpit.

It was surprisingly a pretty good season. The first 4 episodes were an absolute nightmare but it really turned it around. In my mind it's better than Nicaragua and South Pacific, and tied with Redemption Island in terms of enjoyment and strategy.

[Jyn]

This is actually my favorite post-Heroes vs. Villains season. Mainly because, despite being a man and gay, I love women on this show, so seeing them pretty much steamroll the men is what made it enjoyable for me. I don't care how predictable it got. With women dominating, I was happy from week to week. GO, GIRL POWER!

And yeah, I do believe that the editing was much better compared to Redemption Island, which was All Rob All the Time with a Side of Crazy Phillip, and South Pacific, which was the Coach, Ozzy, Brandon, and Cochran Show with a side of Jim. We saw a lot of Colton early on, but after he was gone, it was great seeing all facets of Kim's game, as well as seeing it made clear exactly how her F3 competition got to the end of the game with her. This was probably the strongest, most solid F3 since . . . well . . . last season! You really could make a case for any of them winning!

The rehashed challenges were definitely a weak point, as were personalities like Colton and Tarzan, but the focus on actual strategy instead of big characters was more than enough to make up for it. Favorite moments include the men burying themselves with the unnecessary Tribal Council, and Troyzan's utter, humiliating defeat at his final Immunity Challenge. Oh, and obviously, Kim's win. Hee!

I found myself so impressed with the season, I downloaded the entire thing! In fact, I plan to buckle down and rewatch the whole thing over a matter of days sometime over the summer.

So I give it an A+.

And Unconditional, Troyzan didn't vote for Kim and made hugely bitter rants against the six women left in the game on Twitter since even before the week of his vote-off. That sounds pretty bitter to me.

Edited by Jyn, Jul 20, 2012 @ 1:17 PM.

[Unconditional]

And Unconditional, Troyzan didn't vote for Kim and made hugely bitter rants against the six women left in the game on Twitter since even before the week of his vote-off. That sounds pretty bitter to me.

Well, in reality, him voting for Sabrina doesn't just automatically make him bitter. That characterization might fly if he had voted for Christina or Lief, but Sabrina had her set strategy and it was designed to scoop up votes like Troy's that would have agency once other people (Kim and Chelsea in this instance) made the solid commitment with him and then had to break it off. It's a sound strategy because it's produced several winners and it worked to some extent this season, and Troy has all the reason in the world to vote for that person and playstyle.

As far as bitter ranting, Alicia and Kat and several others have done that both on the show (Ponderosa) and through media so I'm not sure if that practice is really indicative of anything. Obviously he would have preferred to win, and he did try to sledgehammer Kim across 5-6 days on the show to try to get rid of her as being the most threatening person, but that's Survivor.

[Jyn]

and the return of separate reward challenges as early as the second episode (for the first time since CHINA) was very welcome.

Not true. Separate Reward Challenges were done as early as the first episode in Samoa and Heroes vs. Villains.

Well, in reality, him voting for Sabrina doesn't just automatically make him bitter.

Yes, it does. He knew Kim was the best player of the F3 and still deliberately didn't vote for her. And I think continuing to rant about Kim on Twitter that she's the same deceitful person in real life that she was on the show when he had no proof of that is plenty of proof of his bitterness.

[Yogurt Baron]

Yes, it does. He knew Kim was the best player of the F3 and still deliberately didn't vote for her. And I think continuing to rant about Kim on Twitter that she's the same deceitful person in real life that she was on the show when he had no proof of that is plenty of proof of his bitterness.

I agree 100% with the second half of your statement---his post-show comments are ridiculous. I hate people who don't understand that Survivor is a game and that deception is a big part of it. I'm picturing Troy: "I was playing chess with this person the other day, and he just went ahead and captured my queen! Obviously he's a thief and a burglar in real life! Make sure you lock your doors if he's in the neighbourhood!"

On the other hand, I think it's totally kosher for jurors to vote however they want, for whoever they want, period. I think Colton is, in some respects, a good player; if he'd made it to the end against two duds, I still wouldn't have voted for him. If somebody plays in a manner that leaves you "bitter", they don't get your vote. That's one of my favourite things about Kim: she knew that burning the men was likely to cost her a jury vote or two, but also knew that it was the way most likely to maximize her chances of getting to the end with a majority of the jury liking her, so she pulled the trigger anyway.

[snoopythecat]

I finally watched this season last week after almost swearing off Survivor. I'd become disgusted with the increasing marginalization of female players in the last several seasons while Probst openly roots for his man-crush of the season and mostly ignores the women at the reunion. (Seasons 1-12 = 6 male winners, 6 female winners; Seasons 13-22 = 7 male winners, 3 female winners, two of whom were widely derided as having won by default because of a bitter jury and not through any merit of their own (though I strongly disagree in both cases).) I had figured I'd go out on a high note after Season 23 with a relatively satisfying female winner in Sophie.

Then I found out I'd missed the season where a women's alliance held together to the final five and a reputedly strong female player won the season.

Can I just say that Kim is my absolute favorite winner ever? True, I'm a bit biased, both because a woman was able to mastermind the game to a resounding victory and because I developed a massive crush on her. But let's examine:

1) Although she had a low-key start (and remember, I was particularly watching her because I went in already knowing she was the winner), there was a moment in episode two where her brilliance shone through: when she calmly and tactfully explained to Colton why he was being asked to vacate the women's camp.

2) She found the Immunity Idol. Now, presumably, each tribe's idol was hidden on the opposing tribe's side of the beach. Did any of the other women think to look for a Salani idol on the Manono side of the beach after the tribes were switched up and separated?

3) One of the cardinal rules of Survivor is that you have to be flexible; you can't put all your eggs in one alliance. Kim was the epitome of flexible, continually lining up multiple options for herself and examining which one was her best path to the end.

4) Of course, one of the great unknowns of the game is what would have happened if Colton had stayed and Alicia or Christina been voted out. It would definitely have been a challenge, but I think Kim could still have pulled it off. I could see her keeping up the facade of her nuSalani alliance and pulling in the survivor of Alicia/Christina, then identifying Colton as the biggest nuManono threat and blindsiding him, then picking off Jonas as a nuManono threat. From there it gets tricky because you now have a 5-5 tie rather than the women being up 6-4, but if Kim and her girls are able to maintain the illusion that it's really a 7-3 nuSalani advantage, Kim can still play Troy's ego like a violin to get rid of Mike. The women are now up 5-4 and the Pagonging can begin.

5) Kim knew when it was better to give in to her alliance than to force the issue, e.g., going along with the Kat blindside even though she wanted to vote out Sabrina instead. And it worked to her advantage, as we learned that Sabrina planned on being a bitter juror if she got blindsided and would likely have campaigned against Kim at Ponderosa.

6) If there was ever any doubt that Kim was well-liked, the coconut chop challenge put an end to all doubt. It occurred to me that she was like the female JT, the player with the mysterious witch powers. Kim may not have won over the entire jury like JT, but a) Kim had two opponents at FTC while JT only had one (and as I recall, Taj had promised to vote for Erinn if she made it to FTC, so that's one vote JT would have lost if his season had a F3 instead of F2), and b) Kim didn't have a strong-but-less-charismatic strategist like Stephen propping up her game.

7) People can talk all they want about bitter juries, and there have been a few jury decisions that felt less-than-satisfying. But Kim is living proof that you can be the mastermind and engineer blindsides and backstab people and still have them vote for you, IF you're also willing to play the social game and be congenial and treat them with respect, and IF you can do this in a genuine enough manner that you don't come off like a used-car salesman. Li'l Russell's raging ego simply won't allow him to play the social game, and his scorched-earth approach is a losing strategy. Sash and Albert tried harder to play the social game, but they were too transparent and were seen as smarmy and fake. Kim had a way of making people feel that she genuinely liked them as people and that her voting them off was nothing personal.

8) Kim topped it all off with a brilliant FTC performance, owning her game while putting things in perspective for the jury (i.e., I genuinely liked all of you and I didn't enjoy voting you off, but I had to remember that I've known you all just a few weeks, and I'm here playing for my family who have been there for me all my life). And she gave confidence, concise responses to the jury without hemming and hawing and falling all over herself trying to placate them. It seems apparent to me that she realized that Troy's and Leif's votes were already lost causes, and she wasn't going to make a fool of herself trying to win them over.

9) And finally, Kim's post-season interviews have been the epitome of graciousness, humility and class. She may be the one player in all the seasons I've seen who never said or did one single thing that bothered me even a little bit.

Hmm, I didn't intend for this post to be all about Kim, but if the moderators feel it more appropriately belongs in Kim's thread, by all means, feel free to move it. I did want to note a few other things, though:

- I've rarely been so pleased with the first boot from a tribe as I was when the men sent Matt home. I have no problem with young buff guys in principle, and I know they tend to excel at the game (at least the physical aspects of it), but I cannot stand the sense of entitlement that alpha guys like Matt exude.

- Though I was glad she at least showed a modicum of remorse at the reunion, Alicia is a disgrace to her profession.

- Colton. Ugh. I'm loathe to even waste space and bandwidth on him. Suffice to say, as a member of the LGBT community, I'm disgusted that THIS is the first gay castaway we've had since Tocantins. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall any others over the last few seasons.)

- Kat's FTC speech was a thing of beauty, especially given how bitter she appeared in the jury box before FTC.

- Troyzan is just lucky he played with Colton and therefore doesn't come off as the biggest douchebag of the season.

- Tarzan...I can't decide how I feel about this guy. On the one hand, it's sweet that he and his wife still love each other so much after 30 years. On the other hand...how many different ways can someone offend with underwear? And I'm pretty sure half of those polysyllabic SAT words don't mean quite what he thinks they mean.

- It's interesting that, as good a read as Kim seemed to have on her fellow players throughout the season, the one thing she missed was the fact that Chelsea was so widely disliked. Every post-season interview she gave suggested that, prior to FTC, she thought her main competition at the end would be Chelsea and not Sabrina. And do we even know why Chelsea was disliked? The only person I remember her clashing with was Tarzan over Poopgate (and I for one was entirely on her side in that argument).

Ok, I've been dying to discuss this season, but I'll finally shut up now!

[Yogurt Baron]

Agreed, snoopythecat - Kim's awesome. She and Brian are the only winners who got very visible edits who I nonetheless wish we'd seen more of. And unlike Brian, Kim's...what's the word I'm looking for..."not terrifying".

I'd become disgusted with the increasing marginalization of female players in the last several seasons while Probst openly roots for his man-crush of the season and mostly ignores the women at the reunion.

I think the show has always had these tendencies, but given the almost-completely-invisible edits for HVV Sandra, Natalie, and Sophie, I agree, it's getting worse. The interesting non-returnee players for this coming season mostly seem to be women, so here's hoping Kim started a trend.

Colton. Ugh. I'm loathe to even waste space and bandwidth on him. Suffice to say, as a member of the LGBT community, I'm disgusted that THIS is the first gay castaway we've had since Tocantins. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall any others over the last few seasons.)

Papa Bear in South Pacific. Almost certainly Shambo. Otherwise...well, it's hard to say. The show so rarely identifies who's gay. (I just rewatched China, and but for James's belittling remarks about "the stewardess", I don't think Todd is ever identified as gay on the show.) It's unfortunate that the most openly gay contestants - Colton, Chet - are often depicted as either villains or useless, with Colton being the epitome of that.

[snoopythecat]

Agreed, snoopythecat - Kim's awesome. She and Brian are the only winners who got very visible edits who I nonetheless wish we'd seen more of. And unlike Brian, Kim's...what's the word I'm looking for..."not terrifying".

I've never seen the Thailand season, so I haven't seen Brian in action. From what I've heard about him, I think I'd probably respect his gameplay but not like him very much as a person. And I've heard the cast from that season, much like the OW cast, described as a bunch of weak players who were too stupid to see that Brian was conning them all and had F2 alliances with everyone in sight.

Which brings up an interesting point. Is that so much the mark of weak opponents or the remarkable skill and charisma of a master strategist? Kim certainly had Alicia convinced that she and Christina were the real F3 alliance, and that they shouldn't panic if they saw Kim talking to Chelsea and Sabrina a lot because she was just trying to reassure them and keep them complacent. Chelsea and Sabrina, of course, believed the same thing when they saw Kim talking to Alicia. Is this a sign of players who are too dumb to compare notes, or is it the mark of Kim's superior game that the women didn't feel they needed to compare notes because each pair was supremely confident that they were the real alliance and the other pair was a decoy.

I think the show has always had these tendencies, but given the almost-completely-invisible edits for HVV Sandra, Natalie, and Sophie, I agree, it's getting worse. The interesting non-returnee players for this coming season mostly seem to be women, so here's hoping Kim started a trend.

Exactly. When you think about it, Sandra's original season had probably the two biggest grandstanding personalities of the early days -- Rupert and Fairplay -- and yet she got a much stronger edit in that season than in HvV. (Ironically, one could argue that her signature moment in PI -- throwing away the fish -- was a positively Hantzian move.) But, having been spoiled in advance of the HvV season, I spent most of it scratching my head and wondering how in the hell Sandra was the projected winner when she was almost invisible. And I think she played the best game she could under the circumstances, particularly in recognizing that she already had Courtney's vote and just needed the Heroes, and that the best way to do this was to present herself as the anti-Russell. And don't even get me started on Samoa and the producers' decision to go with the narrative that Russell dominated the game and was robbed of a victory rather than that Natalie observed his tragic flaw early on and let him have enough rope to hang himself while she built relationships with the jurors who would be deciding her fate.

Papa Bear in South Pacific. Almost certainly Shambo.

Thank you. I had completely forgotten about Papa Bear, and I had a feeling I was missing someone. Do we know for sure about Shambo, though? I certainly thought so when I first saw her, but I could swear I remember her mentioning a husband or some such indicator that she was into men. (Granted, that doesn't always mean anything, and perhaps as a retired Marine she was afraid disclosing might jeopardize her VA benefits because of Don't Ask Don't Tell.) I was also certain that Denise in China was a lesbian until her husband showed up for the family visit episode. If Shambo isn't one of my people, she's certainly the butchest straight woman on Survivor since Denise and Sue Hawk.

The show so rarely identifies who's gay. (I just rewatched China, and but for James's belittling remarks about "the stewardess", I don't think Todd is ever identified as gay on the show.) It's unfortunate that the most openly gay contestants - Colton, Chet - are often depicted as either villains or useless, with Colton being the epitome of that.

I've certainly seen it underplayed, such as Spencer's decision in Tocantins to keep his sexual orientation to himself because, rightly or not, he feared the good ole boy tribe leader who hailed from one of the most homophobic parts of the country might have an issue with it. But it's usually at least mentioned in the player's bio on the CBS site. As far as I know, Survivor has never gone as far as The Amazing Race does in forcing gay contestants to hide their sexual orientation on the show because they've already been cast as the male African-American team or whatever. I can think of at least five instances on TAR where gay racers were never identified as such on the show; three were African-American, one was Asian-American, and one was deaf. It seems the producers think Middle America doesn't want to watch anyone who is more than one standard deviation from the white, heterosexual, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied "norm" -- a curious notion, given that one of the most popular gay teams in TAR history was two Hispanic guys. I would hope that Survivor doesn't adopt this approach, but it does seem that almost all the gay castaways I've seen are white. (I didn't see all of Cook Islands, but I know Brad and JP were both gay; are they the only known minority gay cast members?) And I wonder if Mark Burnett's inclination to make any effort to cast gay castaways has been affected at all by his rumored religious conversion. In any case, there appears to be at least one lesbian contestant in the Philippines cast, so that's good news.

It's interesting that I was not all that shocked by the malicious glee with which Colton expressed himself because I'd seen his personality type before so many times on Project Runway. In fact, if I didn't know he was a superfan, I'd wonder if Colton had taken a wrong turn on his way to the Project Runway auditions and somehow ended up on Survivor instead. Usually the elitism on PR takes a different form -- young, catty gay guys with fashion school degrees looking down their noses at fellow designers who have no formal training but took up designing and sewing as a hobby and realized they had a talent for it -- but the bitchy, condescending and often malicious attitude is much the same. It always seems to be the more effeminate gay guys, and it probably originates as a defense mechanism to cope with the harassment effeminiate gay guys usually endure growing up. But it's ugly and unpleasant to watch, and I don't want Survivor turning into Project Runway minus the fashion.

[KimberStormer]

I'm pretty sure at least one Probst voiceover, and I feel like several, says "THE GAY MORMON FLIGHT ATTENDANT" when referring to Todd.

[Yogurt Baron]

Is that so much the mark of weak opponents or the remarkable skill and charisma of a master strategist?

I think more the latter. It's just the nature of the beast---there's only so much credibility to go around, so if Kim looks great, everyone she beats looks worse by comparison. But if you put the 20 greatest players ever all on a season together, somebody's going to get voted out first, all but one are going to get beat, and many of them are going to look foolish along the way. I believe the Thailand cast was about average; the One World cast was, in my opinion, much stronger than most. On a season with no Kim, Troyzan is Terry Deitz; on a season with Kim, he's the bumbling buffoon who Kim made a fool of.

I'm pretty sure at least one Probst voiceover, and I feel like several, says "THE GAY MORMON FLIGHT ATTENDANT" when referring to Todd.

You're right. I was thinking more in confessionals---we don't see any of the contestants talk about it that I remember.

[Jyn]

Of course, one of the great unknowns of the game is what would have happened if Colton had stayed and Alicia or Christina been voted out.

Just to clarify, both Colton and Jonas gave interviews saying that without Colton's evacuation, Alicia, not Christina, would've been tossed. In what had to be Christina's one moment of brilliance, she apparently did sell Alicia's boot to Jonas, and he told Colton about her original alliance with Kim, Sabrina, Chelsea, and Kat. That prompted Colton to make the call to boot her instead of Christina, though he decided to keep playing it up like they were still booting Christina to throw Alicia off the trail.

) Kim knew when it was better to give in to her alliance than to force the issue, e.g., going along with the Kat blindside even though she wanted to vote out Sabrina instead.

While it still ended up working out for Kim, as she got Kat's vote, anyway, I still don't understand why the women blindsided her. I really thought they missed a trick by not playing it straight and just completing the Pagonging by taking out Tarzan.

[dakeel]

Seriously, if Colton had not get injured the game would probably have been much better. The Monica boot was fun to watch, but if they had merged without Alica it would have been very interesting. The 4 girl alliance have all talked about planning on taking Colton out first and it would have been interesting to see what Jay and Troyzan would have done. Apparently Jay and Colton had a super close relationship that started during interviews. Kim and Chelsea both said that Troy and Jay were with them and would have taken out the other tribe.

With Colton out, Tarzan just wanted to play to the family visit and followed Alica who could have been gone, lief was dead, and Troy and Jay stuck with the 4 girls.

[snoopythecat]

YogurtBaron:

I think more the latter. It's just the nature of the beast---there's only so much credibility to go around, so if Kim looks great, everyone she beats looks worse by comparison. But if you put the 20 greatest players ever all on a season together, somebody's going to get voted out first, all but one are going to get beat, and many of them are going to look foolish along the way.

That's an excellent point. Case in point, there were plenty of players on HvV who were standout players in prior seasons. But only three could make it to FTC, and some (Tom, Cirie, Boston Rob) went out well before the merge.

Jyn:

Just to clarify, both Colton and Jonas gave interviews saying that without Colton's evacuation, Alicia, not Christina, would've been tossed. In what had to be Christina's one moment of brilliance, she apparently did sell Alicia's boot to Jonas, and he told Colton about her original alliance with Kim, Sabrina, Chelsea, and Kat. That prompted Colton to make the call to boot her instead of Christina, though he decided to keep playing it up like they were still booting Christina to throw Alicia off the trail.

I did see Colton's interview where he mentioned that, but I missed where Jonas backed him up. I thought that episode was evidence that Christina had way more potential than she showed us. It's too bad that a move she made early on to help the tribe (bargaining for fire) was so misinterpreted by Alicia and blew up in her face. That and whichever move she mentioned from early on (I think it was Matt's ouster?) that convinced her she needed to lay low seems to have spooked most of the game out of her. It was excellent strategy on her part to reveal Alicia's alliance to the guys at that point. And removing Alicia at that point would absolutely have been the correct move for the guys to make.

While it still ended up working out for Kim, as she got Kat's vote, anyway, I still don't understand why the women blindsided her. I really thought they missed a trick by not playing it straight and just completing the Pagonging by taking out Tarzan.

Yeah, I didn't understand that either. It seemed like the girls were having an emotional reaction to Kat's poor choices for the reward, but even Kim was thinking of targetting Sabrina instead. Didn't any of them see the Vanuatu season where the girls took their eyes off the Pagonging, and the result that followed? I'm really glad Tarzan didn't turn out to be a Chris Daugherty disguised as the crazy-but-harmless guy. Of course, the girls' alliance was tighter and better managed than the one in Vanuatu, where Ami and Leann made it all too obvious where Twila and Scout stood in the pecking order.

[Jyn]

I did see Colton's interview where he mentioned that, but I missed where Jonas backed him up.

It was in Jonas's Reality News Online interview. The week after Colton had made his, Jonas confirmed it in his own.

Yeah, I didn't understand that either. It seemed like the girls were having an emotional reaction to Kat's poor choices for the reward, but even Kim was thinking of targetting Sabrina instead. Didn't any of them see the Vanuatu season where the girls took their eyes off the Pagonging, and the result that followed? I'm really glad Tarzan didn't turn out to be a Chris Daugherty disguised as the crazy-but-harmless guy. Of course, the girls' alliance was tighter and better managed than the one in Vanuatu, where Ami and Leann made it all too obvious where Twila and Scout stood in the pecking order.

Exactly. Even Tarzan said, right at the beginning of the next episode, that he would've voted him out and was shocked that the women never even mentioned him for that vote. I thought he was well on his way to being Chris 2.0, though, until he overplayed his hand at F6 and Alicia and Kim realized what he was doing.

[snoopythecat]

Jyn:

It was in Jonas's Reality News Online interview. The week after Colton had made his, Jonas confirmed it in his own.

Thanks! I usually read the RNO interviews, but I somehow missed Jonas's. I couldn't remember if he'd been booted before or after RNO randomly shut down.

I thought he was well on his way to being Chris 2.0, though, until he overplayed his hand at F6 and Alicia and Kim realized what he was doing.

The thing I found interesting about that episode was how Alicia immediately went to Kim to spill the dirt on her conversation with Tarzan. Now I know women talk and all, but one of Kim's many Survivor superpowers was that people always seemed to come running directly to her about things like this. As I recall, Jay did the exact same thing (and was rewarded with a blindside) when Troy was going to use his idol against Kim.

[Jyn]

Thanks! I usually read the RNO interviews, but I somehow missed Jonas's. I couldn't remember if he'd been booted before or after RNO randomly shut down.

Definitely before. Jay was the last one booted before the site went (apparently permanently) down.