88 replies to this topic

[TWoP Tennison]

Because of weird software problems I'm not locking this thread, so please don't post in it until after the episode.

[Gwonk]

Oh goody. We're back to Angels and Demons and One True God shit.

I like Meg. I don't like how they have to continually turn Castiel into an A) caricature for the lolz or B) rapidly change his personality somehow to continue making him relevant.

Still like Meg though.

Just can do without all this chatter and Unkillable Enemies bit. Kind of dull, to be honest.

[morrigan2575]

I really enjoyed this episode. I find that when Castiel is on my screen I find that I miss him, I get very nostalgic. However, when he's not around I still enjoy the show I guess it's like a college reunion type thing.

I can't tell if I like or hate the Meg/Castiel thing but I do find it a wee bit disturbing.

Anyone else Kevin Tran's actor looked oddly like Michael Jackson in that first scene where he's sitting at the computer? It was kind of scary.

I look forward to seeing how they wrap this season up and I hope we get to see Castiel again.

[hat]

You know, Grimm actually allows the lead of the show to do something. Why is it that SPN won’t allow Dean to do anything?

The episode was ok, rather messy. Edlund, what the fuck has happened to you? You kind of suck right now.

I too like Meg, but I wish the leads of the show got some action. Dean's been listening and watching for so long I'm wondering if he still knows how to fight.

The story was rather bland and meh, what I saw of it. Not really all that impressed and jeez, two more episodes to go.

The one fun part was where Dean gets blamed for Cas falling. Well duh stupid female OTT angel, we all knew that.

Well at least next episode looks like Dean gets to do more than talk and watch.

[lynnea6]

This was a meh episode for me too. After it was over I was trying to figure out whether I liked or disliked it. The best part was Edgar killing the angels at the end. Go Edgar!

[hat]

The best part was Edgar killing the angels at the end. Go Edgar!

They were angels? I thought they were Levis. Black goo came out of them. This episode really was a confusing mess.

[DrScheme]

I liked it. I've never been a Cas-Fanatic like some but I can't deny that the hour seems to go by A LOT faster when you add Castiel to the mix. He seemed much more like his old self, though with a new twist (that being humor that he alone understands or appreciates) and it gave Dean and Sam something to play off of which livened up their characters as well.

And super interesting to me is the dynamic that became undeniable to me this episode. Castiel is VERY fond of Dean and is indifferent or friendly by proxy to Sam. While Sam has always been nice to Castiel and in this episode seemed genuinely sorry about what happened to him. J.Pad totally sold it that while Dean was frustrated with Castiel though worried about him, Sam was worried about Castiel and determined to find some way to help him. Just very interesting and somehow entertaining.

[Kitten Poker Cheater]

I liked Meg. Her response after she killed that annoying blonde angel was great. I hope the mildly heroic Meg gets to stay around for a bit.

And I like Castiel- in almost any persona. But I wish the writers would merge the quirky/funny/fallen angel with the Castiel of yesteryear- when he first brought Dean back form hell. Mischa whatever his last name is *owns* me he plays Castiel. Dammit.

I guess the new prophet is toast now?

The leviathan story is boring me to tears. Hopefully next season will be more fun/interesting.

[awab]

The first part was good and started to hope Ben is back as a good writer but then he forgot canon and made the second part a Meg show and ruined everything :/
Another episode in a long row of episodes when The Winchesters are the viewers of their own show. Meh.

[Parcae3]

Well, that was a disappointing episode. Edlund really has lost it. I won't mind if he leaves with Sera. He just seems to have lost interest in the show and it shows in his writing.

I like Meg, but I HATE this whole "racist to demons" thing. I despise that argument, and it reminds me too much of Ruby. Such a stupid argument. Yea, demons rape and murder people and try and destroy the world, something Meg has tried many times, but Dean and Sam are racist to them *rolls eyes*

I'm very disappointed that Edlund managed to take two of the rare things that Dean had, and hand them off to Meg. Now Cass is bonded with Meg and now any old demon with a sword can kill an angel (or a Leviathan). I hate when Show throws out it's own canon like it's nothing.

I really hope that Carver can fix the mess this show has become. And I hope pretty much all of the writers that are there now, move on, because none of them are really worth anything anymore. Well, actually I like Robbie Thompson, so he can stay.

It really is pathetic how little the Winchesters are involved in anything anymore. And I miss Dean being the leader of TFW and getting to kick some butt, too.

I did like Kevin. He was a good actor and a cute character, I felt bad for him. Poor kid IS totally screwed.

Anyways, at least we have a season 8 coming with a new person in charge. We actually have a chance of something better next season and getting this show back on track. Fingers crossed.

Edited by Parcae3, May 4, 2012 @ 9:28 PM.

[hjohnson]

They were angels? I thought they were Levis. Black goo came out of them. This episode really was a confusing mess.

Yeah I was super confused about who was who at the end of that, but the punching-one said "Leviathan beats angel" before he gut-punched them. I'm not sure WHY they'd have black goo in them. Or why that would kill an angel in any way....

Also, what is the deal with killing angels now? I thought it was only a holy one could... then it was only with their own angel-sword... now its anyone with any sword? Or was that always a thing?

I was all about the angel storyline when it came up but the Leviathans never ever grabbed my attention. I don't care what Dick is doing, I never did, and I want to move on. I liked Meg in her first incarnate and hated the new one though she appears to have gotten rid of her lisp so she's a bit more tolerable...

[orangeslice]

I thought I was the only one who hates Rachel Miner's version of Meg, so this episode did almost nothing for me, because it seemed so Meg heavy.

Did enjoy seeing more of Castiel and I love when him and Dean are together.

I also thought the new Prophet Kevin looked like Michael Jackson right from the beginning.

[Kendall95]

This episode felt like a mish-mash of things. I liked Kevin and wish they could have spent more time on him. One minute he's studying for an exam, the next, he's a Prophet with monsters chasing him. Couldn't blame the poor kid for freaking out.

IA that the Winchesters are becoming supporting players this season. Lame.

Castiel was cute. The "pull my finger" gag could have gone into goofy slapstick, but it was handled well. However, I don't care about Meg. Maybe because the way Miner plays her is so weird, with the wannabe gravelly voice. It just feels like she's trying too hard and IMO, it doesn't come across as natural.

Have no idea who was killing what in the end.

The story was rather bland and meh, what I saw of it. Not really all that impressed

My feelings exactly. Won't keep this one on the DVR.

[PrussianBlue]

Castiel is VERY fond of Dean and is indifferent or friendly by proxy to Sam. While Sam has always been nice to Castiel and in this episode seemed genuinely sorry about what happened to him.

This at least makes sense to me. (Other aspects of this episode...not so much.) Cas pulled Dean out of hell. So Cas is fond of Dean and Sam is very forgiving of Cas. But Cas broke Sam, so Dean won't be as quick to forgive him. Castiel gave something to Sam and took something from Dean.

[ster1]

I found the first half of the episode pretty entertaining- lots of great one liners, it moved quickly, and there was some interesting exploration of the dynamics between the characters. The actor playing Kevin did a terrific job and I found myself hoping he'd survive into next season. He was really convincing as a freaked out, regular guy who ends up being "chosen."

Not feeling as much love for the second half, though. I cheered Histrionic Hester's "couldn't come soon enough" demise, although I did like her male counterpart. And what is it with this season that the secondary characters are suddenly as important as the brothers? The witch couple,Bobby, Garth, Charlie, now Meg- it's a bit much. I was also wondering since when can a demon hold an angelic blade, much less be able to kill an angel? But hey, I guess now that Meg and Cas apparently share some sort of profound bond of their own, she gets to be the BDH. The way things have been going, Bobby'll use his nifty ghost powers to stab Dick while the Winchesters sit in the car, eating candy corn.

I'm beyond ready for this season to end so we can start with a new mytharc and hopefully, a new direction for the show.

[Lemuria]

IA, ster, the first half was definitely the stronger half. Too much Meg in way too important a role. It's really annoying that they can't seem to write something with the Winchesters in general in a more active role than they have of late. Considering that Gamble was talking up season 7 as "Butch and Sundance" and isolating the brothers, you'd think she and her cohorts would have at least had some idea how to do that without ending up sidelining the main characters, especially Dean, as Sam at least had the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't worst Hellpain ever story thread (it's hard to label anything in the last two years an actual arc).



I will say that this episode didn't do much for any lingering belief I might have had in Sam's intelligence, though (season 4 pretty much put that issue to bed for me. Stupid is as stupid does, and all that). He thinks Metatron is a Transformer. And then--in a move demonstrating a total absence of anything resembling brains or rational thought--he leaves the Word of God in his duffle on the floor of an unlocked room to go chasing after Meg. Lucky it was only the newest prophet who grabbed it, isn't it, Sammy? (Sam, you're 22 feet tall and built like a brick outhouse. It was--what?--too heavy for you to grab the duffle when you went after the resident demon?)

Castiel gave something to Sam and took something from Dean.

I see it as going beyond Sam's wall for Dean, since Sam was already poking holes in the wall even before Cas broke it completely, and since Cas made it all better. I think it was the destruction of Dean's trust in Cas. When Dean spoke to "Emmanuel" about what had happened, it was that betrayal he indicated he was having trouble moving on from. I, for one, am glad that it isn't just about the breaking of the wall, that it's also about the relationship between Dean and Cas.

I was also wondering since when can a demon hold an angelic blade, much less be able to kill an angel?

We did see Meg handle Cas' sword in "Caged Heat," when she went out to hold off the hellhounds. Which is not the same as having her use one outright to kill an angel, something I'm not happy Edlund did in this ep, as it violates established canon. Then again, retconning has been the name of the game since 5.22, hasn't it?

The best part was Edgar killing the angels at the end. Go Edgar!

I like Edgar a lot more than I like Dick (and Edgar's comment about the name suggests he's not totally enamored of the top Leviathan), but this still bothers me, because in traditional lore, it was two archangels--Michael and Gabriel--who took down the Leviathan. It's in line with the way the show has repeatedly cut angels down to pretty much nothing, something I haven't been fond of, and I'm not even particularly religious. I still felt that angels should have meant something more. Kripke and Gamble have treated demons and Hell better than they treated angels and Heaven. (And Lucifer? Why, he's nothing more than your annoying brother.)

Edited by Lemuria, May 4, 2012 @ 11:39 PM.

[RestlessThought]

I liked the episode. There were some rough parts though.

Meg being the hero was the worst part for me. They could have cut out Meg vs the other demons. That really only served to prop Meg up more. I like Meg, but as a villainess. Plus the Winchesters would seriously stand around and let Castiel die again and the prophet be taken? That's never cool. And I too don't like how easy the angels are becoming to kill. I thought Dean was able to kill Zechariah not just because he had an angel sword, but because he was the Righteous Man. Same reason he could kill the Whore. Meg being able to kill an angel... no. Not cool. Ditto the Leviathans. Would have rather the Levis and Angels been more stalemated. I just really wanted angels to be as powerful or moreso, but were maybe standing aside because they had no clear orders or whatever. Although it was nice that the only badass Leviathan, Edgar, made another appearance.

On the plus side, this episode was chock full of great one liners, most of them Castiel's. I really adore him, though this version makes my heart hurt. The Sam & Cas scene was equal parts touching and hilarious. "You appear troubled Sam, although that seems to be a dominate part of your personality so I usually just ignore it." I almost missed the rest of the scene laughing. On the flip side, the Dean & Cas scenes were so sad. Dean's so angry. I was rather surprised when Cas said sorry and Dean dismissed it, saying "no, you're playing Sorry." Oh, Dean. The other angels weren't bad. I liked them, I liked the glimpse into Heaven, and again giggled at the 'you made a scary speech' and Dean ruining Castiel lines.
The Meg & Sam scene was weird though, I liked Meg's lines, but Sam wanting to play the whole 'who Cas owes who more' game was a little depressing. I hate it when it comes off as the Winchesters using people instead of saving them, Cas and Kevin in this episode, and particularly hate it when the show and characters treat Castiel as a tool. I wish Sam had said something about their longer history together or friendship or just threatened her or something instead of about favors owed.
Plus, "You know me, always happy to bleed for the Wincesters." ;_; Pure, undiluted tears.

Kevin was great. I was leery when I first heard he'd be in the final episodes, but I'm much happier now. Sure, he's a little too stereotyped Asian, but I did like him. Especially the part where he's translating and then just starts randomly screaming and hyperventilating.

Also, while it's fun and a drastic change of pace that Misha is playing beautifully, I was not expecting Castiel to be so off his rocker when he took Sam's crazy. Such a disconnect from how humans and angels are affected by hell memories. I'm going to assume Meg's got him doped up to heaven.

I'm very disappointed that Edlund managed to take two of the rare things that Dean had, and hand them off to Meg. Now Cass is bonded with Meg and now any old demon with a sword can kill an angel (or a Leviathan).

Yes agreed, I was surprised at Edlund. On the other hand, they all hugged and shared some jokes hehe. Too bad that didn't help much.

Also, DICK NO. Why'd you dig up the instructions on how to get rid of you? I just can't take these guys seriously!

[Blackmantra53]

I wasn't expecting the twist at the end, however I was expecting more from Mr. Edlund.
As a rule I find his episodes clever, layered and thought provoking, but perhaps because of his directing duties he decided to help himself by writing a simpler episode. It was packed with plot, too much in fact, yet seemed very...superficial in some ways.
Young Kevin was adorable, and very well acted but so stereotypical I found myself embarrassed by association.
Dean seemed like a caricature of himself, abrasive and uncaring, which seemed somewhat out of character to me, but perhaps that is what Mr. Edlund was striving for.

Giant Sam looked ridiculous chasing little Kevin which was probably the intent. I did snicker, but not in a good way. Sam's hair looked dreadful as well.

Misha Collins must have enjoyed this episode very much and the fingerpulling was priceless, however, this schtick is going to wear on my nerves quite quickly so I hope it's reined in soon.

Tonight was the first time I have not enjoyed Rachel Miner. I can't pinpoint the problem but her performance irritated me, and perhaps she is simply better in smaller doses.I can see her and her agenda playing a major part in next season but regrettably, I must ask she get another meatsuit, one with better diction.
The best part? Sam confusing Metatron with Megatron and Dean very matter-of-factly correcting him. Unfortunately for this show, Megatron is a far getter villain than anything I've seen on this show in several years, perhaps excepting the Leviathan Edgar, and the cheesy fellow whom Bobby beheaded.

Finally, the Winchesters seemed yet again to be the guest stars in someone else's story. Please stop that show.

Edited by Blackmantra53, May 4, 2012 @ 11:32 PM.

[yimhappy]

I haven't seen the episode yet. I guess the West Coast can't have everything good.
But my friends are buzzing with this rumor that this is Ben Edlund's good bye episode. It's just speculation, but it sounds like it's the tone of this episode.

In the past, I've really liked how BE's episodes talked about angels & free will. I hear this episode has profound/meaty bits. **fingers crossed**

Edited by yimhappy, May 4, 2012 @ 11:15 PM.

[Dynaformer]

I thought Misha was marvelous and I liked the episode by virtue of his presence. But I'd like not to have him remain in this particular characterization for long.

Major complaint is that we've gone from only an angel can kill another angel to all it takes is an angel blade and you, too, can vanquish the warriors of heaven. Really hate how show blatantly ignores it's own canon.

My overwhelming feeling is actually one of melancholy because this episode has only served to highlight how much I hate the path SPN has taken since the end of season 5. I'm sick of the angst and I'm afraid I don't see a way out of it.

Reboot?

Edited by Dynaformer, May 4, 2012 @ 11:16 PM.

[shamangrrl]

IA that the Winchesters are becoming supporting players this season.

Becoming?

[saltrounds]

I thought Misha was marvelous and I liked the episode by virtue of his presence. But I'd like not to have him remain in this particular characterization for long.

IA – he nailed it and seemed to enjoy himself but I'd like "our" Cas back for S8.

I enjoyed the episode and thought the kid was very good… I've had my fill of Rachel Miner though, and Sam and Dean were all but useless in the end confrontation. From what I read, that seems to be the norm now. Overall this episode was Dean and Castiel's, and I thought all of those scenes were wonderful. This is the only relationship that even remotely interests me on this show, and I thought Ackles sold Dean's anger and guilt and his regret and love for his friend in a way that was so real and in-character for Dean.

Edited by saltrounds, May 4, 2012 @ 11:32 PM.

[Dynaformer]

I've had my fill of Rachel Miner though, and Sam and Dean were all but useless in the end confrontation

I'm concerned with this emphasis on Meg. I do not want a demon/anyone TFW romance. Hasn't that been done already? Although I thought Meg had her moments, I really would have preferred if one of the Winchesters had rescued Cas. Definitely too Meg heavy when a demon appears more heroic than Dean and Sam.

Edited by Dynaformer, May 4, 2012 @ 11:54 PM.

[xanxus]

Kevin: "This looks like a sex torture dungeon. Is this a sex torture dungeon?"

I'm glad they didn't kill off that one other decent and non dickish Angel (Elias?). He was very understanding toward Cas.

[Zanne]

Kevin: "This looks like a sex torture dungeon. Is this a sex torture dungeon?"

Dean: [scythe in hand] "No, this is not a sex torture dungeon."

Oh, Dean...so coy!

Edited by Zanne, May 5, 2012 @ 12:20 AM.

[kara714]

I'm concerned with this emphasis on Meg. I do not want a demon/anyone TFW romance. Hasn't that been done already? Although I thought Meg had her moments, I really would have preferred if one of the Winchesters had rescued Cas. Definitely too Meg heavy when a demon appears more heroic than Dean and Sam.

The writers do seem desperate to shove a good demon down our throats one way or another.

I loved the teen prophet, despite the heavy stereotyping. I hope Kevin Trans gets to be the first Asian American President in the SPN universe some day. :) I thought the actor did a great job and my favorite scene of the entire episode was Dean dealing with his panic attack and gruffly showing him some empathy.

I thought this version of Castiel was fun for a short period of time, but my heart broke for Dean when said that he thought angels trying to care broke them. Cas was the one person that Dean put his complete faith in after coming back from Hell and in the end, he sees it as too heavy a burden for Castiel and of course, he feels responsible for that now. But I hope that Castiel gets back to normal.

There were certainly things I liked about this episode but overall I have to say it was another disappointing effort from Edlund. He seems to have lost interest in the Winchesters this year considering Meg ended up being the hero of this episode while the brothers just stood around and gawped. But that has been the case all season, especially for Dean, so I don't know if that was Edlund's choice specifically for this episode or the mandate of the season. If I believed for a second this was part of some larger theme that would actually give us some kind of pay-off on Dean's depression, I wouldn't mind it, but history has proven that these writers love to break things and then sweep the fixes under the rug so I think I would prefer to just have badass Dean back instead of dragging out all this depression and guilt stuff.

So we got a "righteous man bone" mention tonight. Is too much to hope this might actually have something to do with Dean? Nah, I don't think so either.

Edited by kara714, May 5, 2012 @ 12:22 AM.

[Demian]

So we got a "righteous man bone" mention tonight. Is too much to hope this might actually have something to do with Dean?

Dirty!

[AuntTora]

Meg bugs. Every once in a while I'll catch an old ep with her on TNT, and just can't square some of the things she did and the Winchesters hanging around with her now. Are they going to have to learn the lesson of Ruby AGAIN?

I liked tonight's ep (but I'm no judge, I'm just happy for new ones whatever the quality), and I thought Hester's statement about Cass having been corrupted the instant he touched Dean in hell was interesting.

[yimhappy]

I think that I'll cheer up by thinking of what Dean told Kevin, that it breaks an angel if they try to care. Angels are capable of free will, but their doomed to something depressing if they try to use it. SPN is genius at making SPN!verse even more horribly depressing. Now I wish that JC wasn't coming back. Now I'm hoping somebody puts a bullet in this show's head.

There was a lot to like in this episode. Kevin, Inais, even Hestor was interesting. Sam & Dean had interesting, meaty layers to them. Thank you Ben. I'm liking this new Cas.

But the seasonal arcs stuff isn't compelling or coming together. The Levis, the demons, the "bads" don't make sense either.

Also, I'm uneasy that SPN is reminding me more and more of "Heroes", where they'd make the heroes look bad, and the bad guys look good, only to switch it up again. Also, I'm afraid that we're going to see Cas/Meg shacked up on the beach in a future episode.

Edited by yimhappy, May 6, 2012 @ 5:15 PM.

[kara714]

Dirty!

Quite!


And...yes Dick was stupid enough to dig up the rosetta stone to the leviathans' deaths. Finding long lost instructions on how to kill you so that your enemies can figure out what weapons they need, is a brilliant strategy to winning the war.

Edited by kara714, May 5, 2012 @ 1:08 AM.