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#31

karra

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:42 PM

I mean, all those clients Michael, Pam and Ryan stole from DM just ended up being DM clients again, right? And Prestige is just going to end up with DM, too, I would guess.



Not if DM gets absorbed by Prestige/Big Red/Whatever. Then it'd be the new company's rules.

#32

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:45 PM

I can't be the only one hoping that Robert California mops the floor with Andy in this "street fight", as California put it. Andy is no match for Robert California, not even this bloated, queasy, drunken version of California who posseses even worse taste in women than Andy.

Does he have to be? If David Wallace is going to be the money behind Big Red Paper? If Andy is backed by a multi-millionaire (and is, I believe, also from money?), wouldn't that be a lot for California to contend with?

Given that we've seen that Robert California is pretty much doing worse to this company that the Dunder Mifflin CEOs ever did (and I don't think we ever saw that was David Wallace's fault, he came in at Eleventh Hour to clean up, and got a bad rap I think), and that James Spader has a one year contract, I suspect Andy will win.


Well, as I said, the outcome here is going to be all too predictable, so a California victory is just wishful thinking on my part. Like I said, I was just hoping that would happen.

While I only caught the last 10 minutes, I did catch Andy visiting David Wallace, and I believe his proposition was for Wallace to purchase Dunder Mifflin, not back Big Red Paper. Frankly speaking, Wallace would be better off burning his money "Joker in the Dark Knight" style than investing in either Dunder Mifflin or Big Red.

I like David Wallace, but it was under his leadership that Dunder Mifflin's gigantic failure occured. He may have been brought on to right the ship, but he failed miserably at that task. Even without specifics, he has been characterized as being very much a part of that failure.

And Robert California's ineptitude seems to be something the writers pulled out of their ass, not unlike their decision to make Charles Minor suddenly inept and a suckup. Granted, Robert California has been mainly portrayed as a smooth talker, who seemingly had the power of mind control over everyone. But it was established that he had lived a successfull life, so his suddenly being an idiot reeks of writer desperation. I mean, not a few episodes ago we saw California being smart and shrewd enough to let the whole Sabre retail division, with Nellie in charge, play itself out to its inevitable failure at the idea stage. Which allowed him to placate Jo in regards to Nellie, and kill any future attempt at a retail division. He never seriously put Sabre on the line financially by backing the terrible idea of creating a retail chain, which in this day and age where even previously successfull retail electronics giants are biting the dust, would have been suicide. Yet suddenly he is a drunken idiot who has lost his balls and powers of persuasion, mainly because, for some unknown reason, he thinks Nellie is attractive. If the writers want to go that way, they certainly can, but that doesn't make it plausible, or enjoyable.

But most of this depends on the Nard Dog suddenly seeming capable when everything we have ever seen shows Andy to be an clueless nimrod incapable of any type of success. Last week he was parked outside of Dunder Mifflin like a stalker and adopting 12 nearly dead dogs in a pitiful attempt to upstage California. Now all of a sudden he is a power player with a plan to take California, and possibly even Sabre down. Again, they can do this if they please, but it is ridiculous.

Andy isn't an idiot.


I disagree completely.

Edited by reggiejax, May 4, 2012 @ 2:52 PM.


#33

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

But most of this depends on the Nard Dog suddenly seeming capable when everything we have ever seen shows Andy to be an clueless nimrod incapable of any type of success. Last week he was parked outside of Dunder Mifflin like a stalker and adopting 12 nearly dead dogs in a pitiful attempt to upstage California. Now all of a sudden he is a power player with a plan to take California, and possibly even Sabre down. Again, they can do this if they please, but it is ridiculous.


You're right about Andy's general characterization throughout the show (and even this season), but I think this is supposed to be his "moment in the sun." This latest arc has pushed him to the brink of desperation, he has never been so low before, so I think the message is that when the chips are down and he needs to, Andy can pull it together

This would all be a lot more dramatic if we didn't know that Spader is leaving the show, or if the writers did a better job of raising the stakes

#34

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:01 PM

I cheered for joy when Andy showed up at David Wallace's house. YES. Get rid of Robert California and Nellie and bring this show back to sane for its final season!!!!!! I'm suddenly interested in the show again.

#35

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:05 PM

The fact that the second Andy heard about the big client and the branch closing, he left and left behind his "important cooking tools" makes me wonder if this was his plan all along, to get a large client to come to him, or to get dirt on California in order in order to do something big.

He managed to pull off what Michael couldn't manage.

#36

ConstableClyde

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

The opening to the episode last night was hilarious!

#37

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 7:36 PM

After several weeks of cringe-worthy Office episodes, last night was finally a good one! I LOVED Andy showing some smarts by, first, going to the big client and pulling off the sale and, second, heading over to David Wallace's. He gave RC a chance to "bargain" - get DM's large client back in exchange for restoring Andy to his [rightful] position but the hungover and petty RC couldn't/wouldn't budge.

A cool way to end the series would be David Wallace becoming the majority owner with the rest of the staff being part-owners. Having a financial and personal stake in a company is a LOT of fun, just not really fun-ny. And Andy's right about being able to pick up the failing paper company for a song...

#38

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 7:58 PM

This was the first "The Office" episode I've seen in a long time that felt like one. Loved watching them work together for their common good. I wonder if Jim and Dwight would have joined Andy if they knew what he was up to. I bet both of them would prefer Wallace to California.

#39

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:12 PM

Back when Pam made up that fake/new office to threaten Dwight, she told Jim it was near a bike path to get him on board.


Thanks for that. I think I missed that episode - I've been less than a regular viewer the past couple of seasons. I'm glad there was some character continuity in that bikes were mentioned before. I would have preferred Jim's ambition to be related to his Second Life computer character from several seasons back - Philly Jim who was a sportscaster with a guitar (was that it?), but I guess that would have been really out there.

This was one of the better episodes of this season, and I think the only one where I actually did laugh out loud. The elevator stunts were quite funny. The plot was just recycling of the Michael Scott Paper Company story but I suppose they need some way to get them out of this Sabre/Rbt California/Nellie mess they wrote themselves into.

#40

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:56 PM

This episode was choke full of characterization inconsistencies; but, I've come not to expect much from the Office writers anymore. Robert California became incompetent far too abruptly and in complete contrast of what we've seen of him. Jim and Dwight had become far too chummy. Andy Bernard, who was hardly articulate, manage to steal a huge client.

The plot was not that realistic either. The Syracuse salesperson was angry enough to have 911 called on him. Dwight's antics with the salesperson during the race to prestige were far too outlandish. They recycled the Michael Scott Paper Company plot. The difference, however, is that the Michael Scott Paper Company has a hint of plausibility. Michael was failing wildly toward the end. Andy's actually works. (You don't recycle clever plots like that, though. It's to noticeable.)

Despite all the flaws, this episode was still funnier than over half of the episodes this season, which is disappointing. I think my favorite part of the episode was when Angela tried to make girl talk with Nellie to back up Pam and then have Gabe join in. That was probably the most humorous moment of this entire season.

#41

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 9:23 AM

AT least the show is finally acknowledging how truly horrible Robert California is as a boss.

I always liked David Wallace, so I hope he gets back on the show. Though I am a bit annoyed Andy seems to be following the same storyline as Michael did when he left and formed his own company

Robert California became incompetent far too abruptly and in complete contrast of what we've seen of him


I don't think this is true. I think looking back over the season he has always been that way. He is just able to talk a good game and make it seem like he is some genius when in fact his mind games are undermining, counterproductive and don't produce long term results.

He created a list of the "good" and "bad" employees and seemingly let everyone see it when he first appeared. He tried to make Andy hire his wife/ex-wife and put him in a horrible no win situaiton in that scenario. He gave them unrealistic sales goals that resulted in Andy freaking out and trying the incentive program that resulted in his tattoo. He allows an idea for a Saber store to go through to the final stages when he knows it will fail, then fires someone over it. I think this is completely consistent with how he has acted all season. He isn't a good boss just for playing strange mind games with the employees.

Edited by HickoryColt, May 5, 2012 @ 9:28 AM.


#42

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 9:55 AM

I watched one of the deleted scenes where Harry is talking to the camera guy asking him why they don't film at the Syracuse branch since they've got a lot of quirky people there including 2 people he describes at the Jim and Pam with a will they or won't they kind of thing going on. And if they got together it would probably ruin everything. It would seem like the writers aren't too oblivious to the message boards.

This episode wasn't as bad as the last 2. And while I agree that we've seen signs that Robert California was more of a smooth talker than an effectual boss it's still very repetitive since it seems like everyone on the corporate level ultimately end up that way.

I can actually believe Andy could poach this client since he seemed very affable and is probably one of DM's coveted long time clients who sticks with the company since he sees no reason to switch. Even Andy could handle that much. Overall I'd say he's been a good manager even if he's a substandard salesman. Nellie on the other hand is like an English Michael in a dress and since I don't know how good she is with sales I'm not sure if she's even that. You feel bad for her some times until you realize just how grossly stupid she is and so much of that is her own fault.

As for Jim creating a fake salesman as long as the IRS get their cut I don't see the legal problems. Plenty of people make money using a stage name so I'm sure there is a loophole.

#43

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 10:00 AM

On Jim's bike shop dream, didn't biking also come up when Jim and Pam were talking about what they'd do with lottery winnings, and they ended up compromising on the dream house that was in the city, near museums and cultural stuff, but also near a good area for mountain biking, or something like that? I'm pretty sure there was something about biking in there.

I guess we really don't see a lot of their personal interests since they're usually at the office, and the bike only came to the office when the boss rode his bike to the office. I don't recall getting the sense that bicycling was entirely new to Jim even then, just that riding to the office was a new thing he did because of his boss. He could be into biking on his own time without using his bike to commute.

Anyway, the bike shop probably is a more realistic dream than Philly sports writer, since he does have experience selling things and thanks to the brief Sabre retail experiment he even has some retail experience and knows what it takes to open a store. The sports writer thing was probably more along the lines of the "be a rock star" or "be a movie star" dream, something you may daydream about but that you know you're never going to be able to do.

I thought at first with Andy that we were going to have Michael Scott Paper Company 2.0, but buying the company could be a fun twist on that. I don't think he ever planned to start his own company and go it alone. The idea was to make himself more valuable by having a major account attached to him. Doesn't Andy have a trust fund? It would be even more interesting if he's also part of the bid to buy the company, so that Andy becomes a part owner.

#44

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 12:49 PM

I didn't hate the episode and I think part of it was Harry. I don't think I've ever seen the actor in anything before (I don't watch The Wire), but I found him more entertaining than Nellie or Robert California.

#45

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 1:18 PM

But what is with Gabe's new haircut?

He did have a weird haircut! And that made me recall another funny scene - when Dwight eats the protein powder straight.

#46

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 8:28 PM

But it is rather insulting of the writers to go ahead and recycle the extremely unrealistic plot of an ex-employee (an imbecilic one each time) creating their own paper company and actually doing damage to Dunder Mifflin.

See, I loved it precisely because it wasn't recycled, it was Andy taking Michael's idea and making it better. Michael stumbled into being bought out, this was Andy's plan all along and he brought it to a guy he knew had the capital to do it and at least some interest in the company. I really liked David Wallace as a boss, so I'd love to see him back.

I don't recall getting the sense that bicycling was entirely new to Jim even then, just that riding to the office was a new thing he did because of his boss. He could be into biking on his own time without using his bike to commute.

That's the impression I got as well. Biking to the office involves logistics of bringing clothes and grooming to do at the office and dealing with sweatiness (and with a sales job, it makes it more difficult to go see clients) but I could definately see Jim enjoying it on the weekends. I doubt he bought that bike just to suck up.

#47

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 11:15 PM

Rewatching Nellie's first Scranton episode, I notice that Robert refers to Jo Bennet as "his boss", so I wonder if Wallace and Andy will go to her for a buy into DM.

Edited by karra, May 5, 2012 @ 11:15 PM.


#48

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 1:38 PM

This was a great episode! I don't agree with everyone who has said though that they are making Robert an idiot. He is clearly very smart, I think he is just too wrapped up in himself and his personal life to care about running the business properly. I get the impression that wandering into the office and giving out orders doesn't occupy much of his mind most of the time, he's often thinking about his divorce or sex or relaxing and drinking in his mansion. This is what causes the business to fall apart under his rule- he just doesn't care about it. I do enjoy that he is an actual threatening presence in the office though. The scene with Pam where he asked her to list the things she would be doing aside from helping him really stood out to me as showing what a terrifying boss he'd be. And the phone call with Andy! "You don't even know my real name" would have given me chills. I loved that. And I also loved that he called Andy a debutante. I really like the dynamic of having him around, because he's the first character on this show that I would ever describe as scary.

Have to say the funniest moment of the episode for me was when Dwight said "And where can he put his grapes, Jim?!" and Jim immediately says "In the fridge!" The two of them working as a team is actually hilarious.

#49

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 12:58 AM

Interesting episode. I wonder if we will get to see some sort of David Wallace/Robert California showdown in the finale - each would be a very capable adversary. I agree that California's "you don't even know my real name" speech at the end was brilliant and unsettling, and so far the RC character has been almost everything I'd hoped for.

#50

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:55 AM

Well, as I said, the outcome here is going to be all too predictable, so a California victory is just wishful thinking on my part. Like I said, I was just hoping that would happen.

I like David Wallace, but it was under his leadership that Dunder Mifflin's gigantic failure occured. He may have been brought on to right the ship, but he failed miserably at that task. Even without specifics, he has been characterized as being very much a part of that failure.


I'm never going to say this show has been consistent, so maybe. But it is just as plausible that David Wallace was a decent guy who had to try to fix a disaster made by others higher in the food chain, and he couldn't do it and was out. Maybe he was blamed, but was he actually the cause?

And Robert California's ineptitude seems to be something the writers pulled out of their ass, not unlike their decision to make Charles Minor suddenly inept and a suckup.


I don't think they have ever portrayed RC as anything specific. He has been brilliant, and he has been pathetic. Part of his brilliance may have been naming Andy as manager. At one point, which I thought was well done, Andy managed to increase office sales through his odd, uneven leadership style. It still worked, and RC acknowledged that. Then they created the Andy/Erin thing that made Andy an idiot.

But most of this depends on the Nard Dog suddenly seeming capable when everything we have ever seen shows Andy to be an clueless nimrod incapable of any type of success. Last week he was parked outside of Dunder Mifflin like a stalker and adopting 12 nearly dead dogs in a pitiful attempt to upstage California. Now all of a sudden he is a power player with a plan to take California, and possibly even Sabre down. Again, they can do this if they please, but it is ridiculous.



He hasn't always been a failure. There was his success I just mentioned. And he did have a normal girlfriend outside the office. And people do like him. He has some assets. He just has spent his whole life looking for daddy approval in his family and at the office and that doesn't fly as the top guy.

Can I buy that finally, Andy has reached his "enough" point and has a brilliant idea that is shining through all his frustration and past failures? Yes. And if David Wallace is a better manager than we think, well, that could mean we replace the boobs with well-meaning office types who understand how to manage. That's as much sense as this show will make at this point so I'm going with it.

Edited by Westy8283, May 7, 2012 @ 11:57 AM.


#51

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 12:41 PM

probably because it dealt with actual office stuff.


I completely agree with this. When The Office uses actual business happenings as a basis for an episode, it usually results in a good, solid, funny episode.

I've never seen Andy as being an especially poor salesman just someone who lacked the confidence to be better. Confidence is why Dwight and Jim succeed. An inexplainable over abundance of confidence is why Michael was good. Getting kicked to the curb and humiliated by Robert California seems to have sparked Andy's fire and now he's ready to formulate a plan and carry it out. And lo and behold, it appears to be a GOOD plan.

I'm actually looking forward to next week's episode.

#52

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 3:28 PM

I couldn't figure out what was different about Gabe. Thanks guys!

#53

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 12:18 AM

this was Andy's plan all along and he brought it to a guy he knew had the capital to do it and at least some interest in the company.



But it couldn't possibly have been Andy's plan all along. His "plan" is only in effect and working because of three implausible and completely unpredictable events:

1) Robert California, in a drunken stupor, shutting down a Dunder Mifflin branch that did not need to be shutdown, and apparently doing so literally overnight.

2) The CEO of Dunder Mifflin's biggest account being an imbecile. And he is an imbecile because he just switched his most important supplier (as a paper supplier would be for a company that does direct mailing) from an established company that handled his account for a long time to a guy who comes in off the street, representing a fictional company, totally unprepared to give him any logical or valid reason to switch. Are we really supposed to believe that Andy, of all people, is such a good salesman that he can get this guy to switch, without even so much as a price list, or any type of projections for how "Big Red" paper will handle the account. Oh but wait, Andy said that he could crash at his place if need be. So I guess Andy has that over Dunder Mifflin.

3) David Wallace's stupid "SuckIt" idea gets purchased by the military for $20 million dollars and Wallace is just itching to buy a company (one that isn't for sale by the way) that he already ran into the ground once.

Truth is, Andy had no reason to believe he could ever oust California or get his job back. The writers conveniently made one up for him. They also magically imbued him with the confidence, skill, brains and, lets be honest, balls to put this together.

Edited by reggiejax, May 8, 2012 @ 4:32 PM.


#54

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Posted May 10, 2012 @ 8:29 AM

But it couldn't possibly have been Andy's plan all along. His "plan" is only in effect and working because of three implausible and completely unpredictable events:


Man, you would really hate Arrested Development, one of the funniest TV shows ever.

I don't think situations one and two are implausible in real life, much less this silly TV show. There are lots of bad managers who do stupid things for no reason, and many examples of businesses that shut down with no notice (and the inevitable TV news story with shocked employees saying they had no idea). Changing a supplier based on liking a rep happens, too. And if the cost is the same or less, well, so much the better.

The third example rests on the existence of "SuckIt," which is a stretch. But there have been dumber examples of big companies buying out startups in the tech world. And in this case, it is the military so it is that much more believable. Anyway, in the end, this is a TV show. In fact, the logic you laid out makes me like The Office just a little bit more for connecting the dots of three entirely different plot lines.

Edited by Westy8283, May 10, 2012 @ 8:30 AM.


#55

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Posted May 10, 2012 @ 10:52 AM

But it couldn't possibly have been Andy's plan all along. His "plan" is only in effect and working because of three implausible and completely unpredictable events:


I don't think it was meant to have been Andy's plan all along. I think Andy's plan up to this point was mostly to hang around and make the staff like him by cooking them stuff, and then maybe do to Nellie what she did to him by finding the chance to run into the office and take over the job. If he even had that much of a plan. I think mostly he was hoping that while he was hanging out he'd have a chance to do something that would earn his job back -- any job, not just manager.

This only became his plan when he learned that Robert closed a branch in a drunken stupor, that two other branches were fighting over their accounts, and one huge prospect was hanging out there, waiting to be claimed. Then he came up with the plan to get it himself, making himself more valuable to the company or to some other company. Since he was parked in front of David Wallace's house while making the call to Robert, I'd guess his plan B was already in place by then, but I'm not sure he even had that much of a plan when he was pitching the client. I got the impression that when he won that account, his reaction was kind of "Yay! I got the account! But now what do I do with it?" Then he came up with his plan.

So I would say his "plan" was more a reaction to implausible events, not relying on them.

#56

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Posted May 10, 2012 @ 6:26 PM

I just wonder if an episode actually titled "Urf Wa" by the creative team could have been better than what was Turf War.

#57

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Posted Jun 7, 2012 @ 7:27 AM

I like David Wallace, but it was under his leadership that Dunder Mifflin's gigantic failure occured. He may have been brought on to right the ship, but he failed miserably at that task. Even without specifics, he has been characterized as being very much a part of that failure.


I am just catching up on these episodes now and I have always been annoyed by the way the writers have used David Wallace. It seems they want it both ways, with him supposedly being a competent business man stuck in a company surrounded by crazy people. But at the same time this is the guy who promoted Ryan and thought that Dunder Miffilin Infinity was a good idea. This was the guy who put up with Michael and Dwight for all those years without firing their asses, and actually considered Michael for the promotion. I don't really like Robert, and I hate Nellie, but having David Wallace back for me doesn't seem like a much better option.

#58

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Posted Jun 11, 2012 @ 8:52 AM

In "The Deposition", David Wallace admitted that Michael was never under any "serious" consideration for the promotion. That being said, I'm not so sure that we were ever expected to actually view David Wallace as this extraordinarily smart businessman...at least not one capable of single-handedly turning Dunder-Mifflin around. Maybe he was more competent than others, but let's not forget he was not totally "in charge" of D-M, either. He reported to the CEO and ultimately to the Board of Directors, both of which appeared (from the way that we saw the Scranton branch was run over the years) to be less concerned with the long term viability of the company than with short-term bottom-line gains resulting from nickel and dime cost-cutting measures (cheaper healthcare coverage and lower personnel costs resulting from branch consolidation for example) aimed at bolstering the company's stock price and protecting executive bonuses.

I think David Wallace was intended to be represented as a more "reasonable" face of the company in counterpoint to that given to us by Michael Scott, but not necessarily the kind of executive who could ultimately change the fate of a faltering company chartering a course on the economic waters of an antiquated business model.