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12-11: "Jingle All the Way Home" 2012.04.29


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#331

Jumelle

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:14 AM

Seeing a different side of Dayana, through the most recent editing choices, does not mean suddenly being on Lisa's side. I would never condone Lisa's overwhelming nastiness, apparent prejudice and incredibly foul-mouth, both on and off the show. It doesn't excuse every single thing Clay said this past episode, either. It just means that I no longer see Dayana as a complete innocent who everyone marginalized and hated on, simply because she is so pretty, or just out of principle. I do think she played no small part in her own firing this week, and it is very likely she got an extremely favorable edit up until a week or two ago.

ETA
I agree clotilde. Dayana's comment when Clay was in the recording booth and the Debbie Gibson remark were unpleasant, to say the least.

Edited by Jumelle, May 3, 2012 @ 10:17 AM.


#332

operasinger

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:25 AM

I have a real problem with the above quote. How does this homophobic moment turn against Clay when it was Dayana delivering the slam? Clay is singing the line "he's the man (Sam) and Dayana yells out while.Clay.is.recording. to make sure her opinion is heard. Her opinion is that a gay man must not sing that generic line. I was so pissed.

Another moment was the Dayana slam about calling Debbie Gibson. Que camera close up on Clay's face. Yeah, really classy Ms. Dayana.


WORD. This was exactly my take. I had been squarely in Dayana's corner until this last episode. She was clearly being annoying, and was (as has been mentioned numerous times upthread) clearly out of her element with this task. My husband felt the same way about Dayana. I don't condone Lisa's treatment of Dayana under any circumstances, however, I do think that Clay's frustration with Dayana was justified and in no way do I feel that he treated her disrespectfully.

#333

Jon N

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:39 AM

I have a real problem with the above quote. How does this homophobic moment turn against Clay when it was Dayana delivering the slam? Clay is singing the line "he's the man (Sam) and Dayana yells out while.Clay.is.recording. to make sure her opinion is heard. Her opinion is that a gay man must not sing that generic line. I was so pissed.

How is that homophobic?? How is that a slam against gay people? Where did she insinuate that gay guys can't sing that line? When did she even say gay guy can't sing that line???

I'm positive that anything gay related was nowhere to be seen in the whole entire episode. Except Aubrey's charity.

I think that's an absurd leap and jumping of conclusion. So saying that she thinks that line is better sung by a woman insinuate that gay man can't do it?

Another moment was the Dayana slam about calling Debbie Gibson. Que camera close up on Clay's face. Yeah, really classy Ms. Dayana.

Debbie Gibson has been singing/writing for almost as long as Clay been alive. That was a great suggestion!!

And Clay, "I'm a grown ass man", if you have to say it out loud to validate yourself? You're not that grown, and not much of a man either, especially if you have to yell it in the face of a woman. Keep it klassy Clay!!

#334

basketweaver

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:40 AM

Dayana has never seemed to understand deadlines on any task so far. Remember on the guidebook task where they needed to quickly shoot each person at a location and she demanded more than 30 shots of her as if they had all day? She often drove her teammates crazy with her delays and trying to make last minute changes in other people's work, and that was just what we saw. Who knows how many other times she was annoying?

Sunday was another case where hey had an unbreakable deadline. Dayana had delayed them so much while she was cutting and pasting a few lines for a flier (normally a really short task) that they had only 30 minutes left for rehearsal, staging and choreography (normally a several hour task).

Yet, even once they finally got to the studio, Dayana was niggling around tryimg to make changes in staging, changing who was singing what lines, when there was not enough time left for Clay to possibly finish the necessary steps for doing it well. I can only imagine how frustrating that would be, with so much for his charity depending on winning the task.

Clay seemed to me to be pretty desperate to make her just stop talking long enough so he could have even a slim chance of getting finished in time. And she would not, would not, stop talking so he could get it done. I don't admire any kind of confrontative behavior, but in this case, I think I would have said a lot worse.

#335

clotilde

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:40 AM

This conversation reminds me of tvgasm.com's recap of the show. They pick up on the irony of Dayana's comment to Clay. They do lots of screen caps in their reviews and add their own captions.
http://www.tvgasm.co...wahahahaha.html

Dayana interrupts the groove to ask Clay if he really wants to sing the lyrics, Sam is my favorite man. I don’t see how Clay would have a problem with that and he tells Dayana not to worry about it right now. She thinks maybe the background women should sing it. Strange, conservative choice to be concerned about for a woman fighting for people with AIDS.


They show the moment with Clay's two thumbs up assuring Dayana through the glass that he had heard her and "gotcha."

Tvgasm's caption: Clay hopes this is the Venezuelan symbol for fuck you.

eta:

And she would not, would not, stop talking so he could get it done. I don't admire any kind of confrontative behavior, but in this case, I think I would have said a lot worse.

Yup. I'm no Lisa fan but I can hear hear yelling "shut up, shut up, shut up" to Dayana in some other episode as Lisa tried to write. Rude Lisa. Poor Dayana. Hmmmmmm. Dayana knew how and when to poke the hornet's nest.

(bolding mine)

Edited by clotilde, May 3, 2012 @ 11:48 AM.


#336

operasinger

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 11:49 AM

Clotilde - thanks for sharing the tvgasm recap - it was GREAT!

#337

Softwhere

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 12:15 PM

IMO Lisa's behavior is point blank unacceptable. It has never been acceptable. She is a bully. Imagine a court scene - "Your honour, I was told I was a loud. This is why I reacted that way."

I thought Dayana's behaviour in the last boardroom was quite classy - she actually stood up for herself. It appeared to me that she had it and wanted out.

Now she can call her friends in Venezuela and tell them that if they think their president is bad, just wait until they meet Lisa.

Edited by Softwhere, May 3, 2012 @ 12:16 PM.


#338

angelita100

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:31 PM

I also disagree that Dayana's line about who should sing the line was homophobic. That's a huge leap.

And while the comment about calling Debbie Gibson wasn't complimentary to her team it was a very mild comment if you put it in perspective of the entir show. I don't even think it was sacastic but it was funny. And certainly not the worst thing that has been said to anyone. Hell I'll give Debbie props on that one for beating the drum long and loud that she was a great singer. Clay's ego can handle it.

I won't even start on Lisa. She is so beyond the pale that I don't give her the benefit of any doubt on anything.

Edited by angelita100, May 3, 2012 @ 2:32 PM.


#339

lynnerself

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 2:57 PM

I will grant that the comment about calling Debbie Gibson might have been clueless not delibritly insulting.
After all she had worked on a team and seen Debbie write the sort of thing they were talking about.
Who knows if she had any knowledge of Clays skill as a songwritter (not performer)

#340

intuitive

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 3:48 PM

The Debbie Gibson comment by Dayana was way out of line and insulting to Clay. I also thought it was intentional, that is, unless she's entirely clueless. Judging by the look on his face he agreed with me.

Also her interruption of Clay in the booth was insulting. I don't know how her gay innuendo could be missed by so many.

She just isn't all sweetness and light and that's how I thought of her for weeks. She's one smart and tough cookie on the inside with an angel face and demeanor on the outside.

#341

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 3:50 PM

Who knows if she had any knowledge of Clays skill as a songwritter (not performer)


This morning she said on Good Day L.A. that Clay is an amazing singer and that she is a Clay Fan. Any Clay fan would be familiar with his songwriting skill. I think she knew and was getting under his skin to play the game. She played dirty but pretty girls often get away with it.

#342

misterbfd

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 3:57 PM

Dayana has never seemed to understand deadlines on any task so far. Remember on the guidebook task where they needed to quickly shoot each person at a location and she demanded more than 30 shots of her as if they had all day? She often drove her teammates crazy with her delays and trying to make last minute changes in other people's work, and that was just what we saw. Who knows how many other times she was annoying?


I think Dayana is likely used to being given extra allowances because of her looks. I'd be willing to bet that for years deadlines have probably not been something she's had to worry too much about. I'd imagine she's accustomed to being able to operate in life at pretty much her own pace.

#343

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 4:14 PM

Who knows if she had any knowledge of Clays skill as a songwritter (not performer)



This morning she said on Good Day L.A. that Clay is an amazing singer and that she is a Clay Fan. Any Clay fan would be familiar with his songwriting skill. I think she knew and was getting under his skin to play the game. She played dirty but pretty girls often get away with it.

Of all of the songs that Clay has recorded, he had only recorded two that he co-composed, neither of which were released singles (the melody of one was written by David Foster), so his fans should be aware that he has not shown himself to be much of a songwriter. I don't know if Dayana is enough of a fan to know that, but Debbie has composed pop songs that have been very successful and produced them as well. In fact, her achievements in composing/producing hit songs is pretty impressive and if Dayana knew that, it would be reasonable for her to think about contacting Debbie for help.

#344

Travid

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 4:23 PM

Of all of the songs that Clay has recorded, he had only recorded two that he co-composed, neither of which were released singles.


That one song "Lover All Alone" is better than anything written by anyone in the last decade. Clay never had a label supported radio single with RCA since Invisible. LAA never had a chance.

I don't care if Dayana suggested calling Paul McCartney instead of Debbie Gibson. It was still an insult meant to upset him.

Edited by Travid, May 3, 2012 @ 4:26 PM.


#345

clotilde

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 4:36 PM

It would be the same as if Clay had said during the perfume task, "Hey guys! Maybe we should call Tyra Banks to be the model for this task" while they were riding in the van.

#346

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 5:13 PM

Clay from the beginning was being rude to Dayana, it didn't start at his "I'm a grown ass man.." BS. How was Dayana askig him if he could stand in a different spot trying to take over or say she's better at songwriting/staging? What was the reason for "I'm a grown ass man"? How was she questioning that?


My understanding was that Dayana wasn't understanding or respecting the need for rehearsal. She INTERRUPTED the song, to ask him to stand on the other side, and she interrupted them to add that the girls should sing the onl line. Clay's blog said that because of the delays, they had a very short time to rehearse and they had to work out who was singing what. "I'm a grown-ass man" was his way of saying "Let me do what I know how to do, and stop interfering and side-tracking". They needed to get the song down, first, and then get the staging details.

Thinking about all the past episodes, and the criticisms of Dayana, what I am surmising is this - Dayana is the kind of person who "thinks aloud." when thoughts occur to her, she processes them by saying them, and doesn't even completely realize what she is thinking before she says it. In some situations, it probably works for her. But when cooperating with others, under a strict time deadline, she ends up being a hindrance.
Many times, team members were annoyed by her, not so much for what she said, but for the way she interrupted and side-tracked the task.

#347

angelita100

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 5:16 PM

Yep, Dayana has been nothing but gracious about Clay since the show ended. I'm a big Clay fan. As far as I know he wrote Lover All Alone. My mom is a big Clay fan. She wouldn't know that. I am a big Michael Jackson fan. I have no idea what he wrote or what somebody else wrote for him.

ETA..Backformore that's a good point about saying aloud what she's thinking. Could be.

Edited by TWoP Pembleton, May 4, 2012 @ 4:17 PM.


#348

Travid

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 5:31 PM

Yep, Dayana has been nothing but gracious about Clay since the show ended.


Yep, Clay has been nothing but gracious about Dayana since the show ended.

#349

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 5:47 PM

I've read everyone's posts finally!

I just want to say, Dayanna is one of the most beautiful women, I've ever seen. And that is both inside and out. She's far from stupid, and I'm sure she will continue to have a nice career. Picture taking or looking pretty, is more than that, as countless seasons of America's Next Top Model have shown. Plenty of beautiful women's pictures came accross like cardboard repeatedly. The photo she took, portrayed great warmth, and was stunning. She speaks three languages, which is not an easy feat, and was instrumental in many of the tasks. I admire her poise, and wish her luck and success!

Clay disapointed me two week's straight, not for being on the side of Lisa, but just for being a bit mean. But hey, that can happen, and I get he might have been frustrated...but some of his remarks/reactions were a bit low class. I also believe he is "playing the game." He's a competitive fellow, and I wouldn't be surprised if he made the top two.

Lisa is pitiful, and Aubrey is a close second.

Theresa is sweet, and endearing mostly...

Rooting for Arsenio for the win!

Edited by Jamminduree, May 3, 2012 @ 5:48 PM.


#350

Unanimous

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 6:10 PM

That one song "Lover All Alone" is better than anything written by anyone in the last decade. Clay never had a label supported radio single with RCA since Invisible. LAA never had a chance.

Regardless, David Foster wrote the melody for that song and it took a long time for Clay to write the lyrics, and I think that itís really the only song that heís admitted to having a big part in writing. So itís not like Clay has demonstrated that heís a prolific songwriter and has the ability to write catchy melodies, an ability that would speak to the task and being able to write a jingle that sticks in peopleís heads.

I don't care if Dayana suggested calling Paul McCartney instead of Debbie Gibson. It was still an insult meant to upset him.

Iím not so sure, but I can see that as a definite possibility. No one knows how much Debbie told her team members during the tenure of the show, and thereís no doubt that Debbie has demonstrated the ability to compose hit songs.

#351

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 6:19 PM

So it’s not like Clay has demonstrated that he’s a prolific songwriter and has the ability to write catchy melodies, an ability that would speak to the task and being able to write a jingle that sticks in people’s heads.


Not sure what prolific has to do with it. All it takes is one great song. Regardless, Lover All Alone is a great song but it is a moot point. Lisa wrote the jingle, Clay performed it very well. Done.

Don't know anything about Debbie except that horrible Shake Your Love and the extremely over produced and nasal PomTini song. I'm not impressed and I wouldn't call her up.

Edited by Travid, May 3, 2012 @ 6:20 PM.


#352

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 6:25 PM

Clay's little blow-up at Dayana is the same as when a person loses patience with another whether a friend, family member, or even a fellow worker for any number of reasons. It's one of those things that happen then soon forgotten. Clay could have easily apologized after the task, but it wasn't aired--we will never know about that. However, it seems like neither Dayana nor Clay are holding grudges and it amazes me some people would hold a grudge against Clay for losing his patience--like they never have even once lost theirs.

Never would I stand up for Lisa's behavior toward others including Dayana even though I believe Dayana had Lisa's number and was deliberately pushing Lisa's buttons. Dayana's face said it all as she watched Lisa blow-up. As for Lisa, she may be an insult comic, but she still does it even when not on stage. I don't find insult comics funny. Not on stage, nor on nighttime talk shows, or in any type of media. People seem to think it's ok to hurl insults at others like it's a normal thing to do--just read twitter, message boards, blogs, comments to articles, etc. Sure that everyone knows this, but the ability to be anonymous on the internet seems to make some people think they have a license to be nasty.

#353

Unanimous

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 6:29 PM

Oops! Sorry, I think that was off topic.

Edited by Unanimous, May 3, 2012 @ 6:42 PM.


#354

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:42 PM

Yep, Clay has been nothing but gracious about Dayana since the show ended.


Agreed. Hell the only animosity I've seen at all is coming from Lisa to Dayana. But then I'm not looking for it. I think Dayana has treated Lisa with way more respect that she deserves.

Edited by angelita100, May 3, 2012 @ 7:42 PM.


#355

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:44 PM

Luckyfive, I think Lisa considers being on the show as being onstage, so it could all be a performance. I don't like it and it hasn't caused me to look her up or find her tour dates, but others may love it.

#356

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:32 PM

It would be the same as if Clay had said during the perfume task, "Hey guys! Maybe we should call Tyra Banks to be the model for this task" while they were riding in the van.


It would if Clay made his living as a song writer. He's a singer who happened to write a couple of songs. So what . Dayana was just making a comment and meant nothing by it.

#357

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:02 PM

Dayana was just making a comment and meant nothing by it.


Did Dayana say that somewhere? I don't remember her saying that and I wouldn't presume to know whether she meant anything by it or not without her say so.

#358

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:21 PM

Here's an excuse I've seen used for Aubrey that I haven't seen used for Dayana:

She's young and hasn't learned yet/doesn't know any better/is still figuring things out/etc.


Anyway, Dayana might have mentioned Debbie Gibson because she was feeling frustrated with Lisa/Clay (as we know they were with her) and meant it as an insult. She could have mentioned her because she was frustrated and remembered being able to get along with Debbie better or wanted someone on "her side" instead of being the odd one out. Maybe she genuinely thought Debbie could help them. It's hard to say.

I still think bringing her back might not have been a bad idea. Putting aside how talented Debbie may or may not be, that's the sort of thinking/risk taking that goes far with Trump. John Rich brought back a fired Nikki Taylor from the women's team to help the men's team last season, and it was great. He called up his friend Dee Snider to help with the retro 7-Up task, and it was great. He may have reached out to other celeb friends to help with tasks more directly than just a check, but I don't remember. The point is that the participants don't always have to do it all on their own (Lisa, I'm talking to you), and bringing in a "bonus" celeb might have given them the edge. But I do think Clay's ego was showing this episode a little.

#359

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 9:33 PM

I'm not so sure it was strictly ego, per se. Michael Andretti was fired when it (the task)was in his supposed wheelhouse and he conceivably didn't deliver; I would think Clay being a singer, one that Trump pointed out was talented, would add additional pressure to do well or risk the same fate. We know he would have done the task as PM but Dayana wanted it; even so, he was still under the microscope. As to the staging interference, Dayana doesn't/didn't seem to understand the issue of "just" moving from one side to the other. She needed to let him handle it.The man has staged shows for 10 years professionally and probably as much before that. He seems to know his way around that type of thing. His abilities as a songwriter really weren't necessarily up for debate but his ability to weave a melody and fit it to the lyrics came into play. You can't perform as many years as him and not feel relatively confident in his ability to pull it off, with.reasonable.time.and.cooperation. I think there wasn't necessarily intent on Dayana's part to interfer but she ultimately did. We only saw a minimum of their time together and it's more than plausible she did more than we saw that annoyed, but even without that, she did enough that I saw than encroached upon someone else's ability to do what they do and which she didn't have a clue how to. She should have trusted them to do their thing. I don't think he was out of line as I saw enough that warranted irritation and I didn't see him speak anywhere near the way Lisa has in the past, nor did I see him gang up. Ah, well, they appear to have mended any damage in real life. Cool.

As to Lisa, there's no way she's edited badly, no way. If she spoke that way once it would be bad enough but there's been more than ample ammo to show her speaking so very demeaning and beyond the pale. She needs serious counseling.

I am so hoping that Lisa goes first of the final four so AuBray thinks she stands a chance and then she's the last to go before the final. Soooooo looking forward to that.

Edited by itseleben, May 3, 2012 @ 10:25 PM.


#360

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:01 PM

I definitely don't think Clay and Lisa should be painted with the same brush in terms of how they treated Dayana. With one you have a pattern of consistent abuse over a number of weeks. With the other you have a frustrated blowup from someone who otherwise has shown their fellow teammates respect.

More importantly, it seems like Dayana feels the same way. She was on Good Day L.A. today and the first thing they asked her about was the way she was treated in the last task by Clay and Lisa. She definitely didn't see their behavior as being the same:

Dayana: "I think Clay... this was a specific task where Clay could show his attributes. He knows about music, he's an amazing singer. I'm a Clay fan. I think he had pressure for the same fact, he needed to do the best job he could. And probably that's what set him off a little. He couldn't hold himself, probably, because he was under pressure. I understand it."

Interviewer: "Clay Aiken is always like the nicest person on earth. So that's what's funny about watching this clip." (the "grown-ass man" clip)

Dayana: "I believe he's a great man. He's nice. What I think happened, he was probably too much under stress. I guess probably everything would have gone... would have fallen on his shoulders knowing it was a task about music."

Contrast that with what she had to say about Lisa: "There's an obvious situation there. We cannot lie. We can't hide to anybody. I think I did the best I could to maintain a professional environment, though she wasn't willing to be a grownup, an adult about it. And, you know, it's shown, and everybody can see it and America gets to sit in their house and enjoy it and she's going to have to live with it."

Bottom line, Dayana seems to dismiss Clay's behavior as a stress-induced aberration. I think she's in the best position to know.

Edited by GBB, May 3, 2012 @ 10:07 PM.