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4-20: "Worlds Apart" 2012.04.27


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#91

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 8:59 PM

Sydney! I shrieked when they showed that, even if the image of the Opera House and Bridge is flipped (that picture is not possible) because the map Sally Clarke looked at is real, I used to take swimming lessons in the pool shown on it.

I'm in denial there's any split-screening at all, it's so well done and I see all the characters are separate people. I was surprised how sad I was seeing everyone say good bye to their alternate. I was also really, really scared that Peter wasn't really there again, I desperately wanted Walter to poke him in the shoulder.

I felt irrationally bad for Olivia that all the Cortexi-kids were out there but she hadn't had a chance to meet any of them. I also felt really bad for Agent Tim, he was a victim of people forgetting what Nick Lane had done to people back in the Blue timeline.

I'm glad we got this episode and the proper good bye to the alt universe.

#92

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:41 AM

If the adult blueverse Peter had never reappeared in the amberverse, things would still be crappy, with the two sides distrusting each other even though the physical Machine-built bridge had opened a door.

I disagree. Peter's turn as the "neutral party" existed only until both sides faced the fact that they had a common enemy. If Peter had never returned, Jones would still have acted. "One Night in October" showed that the two sides could work together. While I like Peter, more than I've ever liked Olivia, I think you're giving him too much credit.

#93

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:07 AM

If all of the cortexi 'kids' dopplegangers were all rounded up and sent to the blue verse, would this not have messed up Jones' plan?


Even if they moved universes, they'd still vibrate at their original universe's frequency, so Jones' plan would still work. And then there's the problem of locating all 27 of them in less than a day.

the map Sally Clarke looked at is real, I used to take swimming lessons in the pool shown on it.

Woah, cool!
I can't help but think showing Australia is a shout out to John and Anna's home country. And of course Vancouver would be mentioned as well since they do their shooting there.

Edited by zwhippersnapper, Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:08 AM.


#94

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 8:00 AM

This is the only show I can recall where I felt emotionally about the characters - the writers/actors/directors bring so much feeling and heart to even the simplest of scenes and moments - seeing them vanish last night; wow. I paused my DVR to take it in. I never do that sort of thing with any other show - ever; regardless of how good it is. My other favorite show is Justified and then Mad Men, which this season is losing me, but while I enjoy those shows, I do not get the emotional wallop I do with Fringe.

I nearly teared up when I read about the 13 episodes we get next year. I was so disappointed to say good bye to them this year.

I would like to believe that at the least, if they go with an ending that is positive (which, of course, they may not) - that we learn that alt universe is healed or is able to now heal itself; I don't like to think of them over there dying.

#95

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 9:31 AM

Yes, but the two sides still distrusted each other intensely until Peter went over there in 408-409 and established a trusting personal link. There's no way they would have been meeting round the Hall of Justice table unless Peter had gone over there. His going over there was key to moving the alliance forward.

#96

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 9:50 AM

In a lot of ways, Peter himself was the "bridge" between universes.

#97

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:04 AM

I don't disagree that Peter played a role -- identifying Jones as a Blueverse criminal, which the Blue Fringe team didn't know, certainly speeded things up. But I think that the cooperative spirit would have prevailed once they realized that Jones was a threat to both sides. Olivia was the main holdout, the most suspicious of Walternate and his motives, but was able to work with the rest of the red team. Lincoln was ready to cooperate without limit as long as he got information about the human shapeshifters. Walter was sidelined by his own paranoia and would have been less effective.

The fact that the Observers' leadership believed Peter was dispensable means that nothing they found unacceptable could have occurred in a world without him. It might have taken longer, been messier and had more casualties, but things would have worked out.

#98

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:08 AM

The fact that the Observers' leadership believed Peter was dispensable means that nothing they found unacceptable could have occurred in a world without him. It might have taken longer, been messier and had more casualties, but things would have worked out.

But now that we've seen (in this episode) that there are Observers and then there are Observers, we can wonder if perhaps the observer in the earlier episode who stated that Peter was not necessary had an evil agenda
-- or maybe even didn't believe Peter was no longer necessary, but was just saying that Peter was expendable for the benefit of the eavesdropping evil observers.










These endless thoughts of what-ifs regarding peoples' (and observers') motivations is why I've never been picked for jury duty.

Edited by shapeshifter, Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:16 AM.


#99

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 3:25 PM

You know, at the risk of getting flamed, I found this episode disappointing in a bunch of ways.

I thought that Walter's presentation at the start was embarrassing and out of character. The drawings were silly. His only evidence offered was his dream. Walternate really saved the situation. Walter could easily have given some real data but failed to. It seemed way out of character for someone of Walter's talents.

I also thought that Torv's portrayal of Bolivia was off. She kept bobbing and weaving and using up/down cadences. Torv has done this character much better before. She seemed to be going for some sort of free spirit happy version to contrast to blue Oliva's very restrained version.

It seemed completely obvious that they were being manipulated into turning off the machine. That's fine as they had no real choice. However, at least they should have acknowledged that this might be exactly what Jones wanted them to do.

In all it felt like not their best work. Admittedly they've set the bar very high in the past.

#100

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 3:30 PM

sleepingwalker
ITA

#101

NorthTexas

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 3:38 PM

I also thought that Torv's portrayal of Bolivia was off. She kept bobbing and weaving and using up/down cadences.


True enough, this has been pointed out (at least twice) to Torv by journalists this season but she says she hasn't done anything different. Many fans have commented on it but I guess if she doesn't see it, she doesn't see it. The original Alt Olivia was a allot different, more restrained, less 'jazz hands' and imo more real, less cartoonish. She is a superb actor, one of the best on television but her new and apparently unintentional characterization of Alt Livia is disappointing to say the least.

#102

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

I don't think I'm going to propose this idea very clearly, but what if, due to a lot of minute differences (the difference in Walternate's personality, for example) from the Peter's kidnapping/death, affected things that might have otherwise altered Faux's own personality (I don't know how much Walternate has control over everyday life, but I guess I'm what I'm suggesting is the idea of a butterfly flapping it's wings and all that). I have a harder time believing this version of her would murder a deaf guy or be as easily cajoled by the likes of Newton. I realize it really just comes down to Anna Torv not thinking she's actually playing her any differently, but at least I can kind of fanwank it to myself in that regard. Ultimately it doesn't bother me because I disliked Faux so intensely before...I've always felt that she was over-the-top.

#103

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:26 PM

I'm surprised to hear that AT doesn't think she is playing them differently, I see this Faux as quite different (my thinking was also along the lines of the minute changes Ageha suggested) and I assumed it was intentional on ATs part to play this version of Faux as a third iteration of the Olivias. She strikes me as less hard, more open to our universe and more interested in Olivia as a person rather than simply an enemy from over here. I can't see this Faux behaving quite the way Faux1 did in that scene in her apartment at the end of season 2, nor killing the deaf guy. And I can feel more kindly towards her because she didn't sleep with Peter!

Edited by anatolealice, Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:27 PM.


#104

supercrusader

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:11 PM

More than Likely , Anna subconciously changed Altlivias gestures and mannerisms as she consciously altered the characters pereception of her paralell counterparts .
Simply put , once Altvia started to trust the other Fringe team her body language around them changed .
I doubt Torv even knew that she was doing it .

Edited by supercrusader, Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:15 PM.


#105

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:17 PM

This is interesting info that Torv says that she does not think she is playing Bolivia differently. Clearly Noble is playing Walternate very differently. Hell, AmberWalternate is nothing like the Walternate that would lock Olivia in a dark room and cut her into small pieces to ship her back. I assumed that AmberRedOlivia (AmberBolivia) was different. The original Bolivia was a much tougher character. Her time with Peter may have softened her up a bit but she was still a tough nut. AmberBolivia is swishing around and looking for rainbows.

What these actors do is amazing and I mostly assume that everything is intentional. Perhaps not.

#106

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 8:33 PM

One point with BOlivia: she's spent most of her life in a deteriorating world, which made her tough and her team enjoy a gallows-humor camaraderie, but since the bridge was built the deterioration not only stopped, it was reversing. It seems to me that that could leave her more cheerful, even a little giddy.

#107

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 9:49 PM

I think the difference in amber Boivia is more a result of the difference in the society of hate in the alternate universe. Walternate published ZFT in the original redverse; Bolivia seemed to be completely drawn into this line of thinking, enought that she followed him blindly into the assignment to infiltrate the blue verse. I know this happened in the amber verse as well before Peter reappeared, but I would wonder if there was less maliciousness in this mission, and our amber Olivia was apparently held but unharmed. I think amberBolivia is different because amber Walternate is different. As a person of influence and power, he would have a huge impact on the culture and beliefs of those around him.

#108

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:38 PM

Love the episode, but one thing has been bothering me. If all of the cortexi 'kids' dopplegangers were all rounded up and sent to the blue verse, would this not have messed up Jones' plan? I know the writers can only fit so much into each episode and season, but I feel that the cortexi kid side of things was mishandled, as someone else stated further up thread.


The way Walter explains it, Jones's Cortexiphan kids were drawing on their doppelgangers' frequencies to re-tune the areas they're standing on to the middle frequency (and the re-tuning happens in the alt-verse as well as part of their crossing over powers I guess). So I don't think this would have worked, because they still could have drawn on the alt-verse frequency even if the doppelgangers were in our universe.

#109

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 11:10 PM

Oh, my heart has broken. I loved that Bridge and the easy travel between the universes. I hope we can still see the Red side sometimes.

#110

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Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 4:32 AM

I think also we should remember that from 3x01 to 3x08 the Bolivia we saw most of the time was one trying to pretend to be OurOlivia and therefore more restrained so to speak.
Then in the second half of season 3 she was changed due to her time over here, miss trust of Walternate and her pregnancy. The only unchanged Bolivia we saw prior to season 4 was the Bolivia in Over There pt 1&2. And I think she was kinda cocky in her Olivia/Bolivia interactions.

i'm probably in the minority that I don't have a problem in the ways AT has portrayed any of the Olivia incarnations.

Edited by jloub, Apr 30, 2012 @ 5:08 AM.


#111

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Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 10:06 PM

My feeling was that it was Bolivia's undercover mission itself that warped her personality a bit. That is, she was always breezy - until she was asked to go on a mission (on very short notice!) that she wasn't prepared for, or even mature enough for. Bolivia was very much out of her depth on the mission. It got messy very fast - and it ended badly (with her needing a risky extraction). We weren't seeing the real Bolivia.

In the yellow world, the war between the universes was more of a Cold War instead of a deadly, bitter struggle. This was (IMHO) because Peter was dead years ago. In the S1-3 timeline, Peter was alive, he had chosen to stay Over Here, and Walternate knew this and it created intense bitterness that infected everything. With Peter dead, I think the bitterness was not such a present thing. And while Bolivia did do a spy mission Over Here, in the yellow timeline, it seems to have been a breezy lark for her.

So, while I personally haven't really enjoyed S4 Bolivia sometimes (though sometimes I have), I think the way Anna Torv is playing her is a valid choice. She's trying to play her as a less dark Bolivia and I can understand why.

And, I would add, IMHO... I wouldn't want to go back to S1-3 universe now. Because the war between the universes was horrible and we already saw the dark place it would lead to. Walternate telling his own son, "If I was actually there I would kill you," then vengefully shooting his son's wife in the head? And the whole altverse destroyed? Something had to change.

ETA:

Here's my opinion on why saying goodbye (even if temporarily) to the altverse is so sad. It's because the altverse stands for everything we want to be, but can't be. It's freakishly different, but also kind of like heaven. And when they first introduced it at the end of Season 2, that's how it came across. It was all about blue skies and sunlight and zeppelins floating in the sky, and Mom cooking bacon in the kitchen. I think we all want to believe there's an altverse we can escape to.

Edited by Money Magnet, Apr 30, 2012 @ 8:37 AM.


#112

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 2:56 PM

Here's my opinion on why saying goodbye (even if temporarily) to the altverse is so sad. It's because the altverse stands for everything we want to be, but can't be. It's freakishly different, but also kind of like heaven. And when they first introduced it at the end of Season 2, that's how it came across. It was all about blue skies and sunlight and zeppelins floating in the sky, and Mom cooking bacon in the kitchen. I think we all want to believe there's an altverse we can escape to.

Maybe this belongs more in an overall "Fringe and What It Means" thread, but I wanted to tag along with this assessment, MM, especially in the bit I emphasized. Our very first glimpse of the altverse was in the Season 1 finale, with that spectacular sunrise-gold shot of the Twin Towers still standing. It was completely shocking, and audacious; it made me shout in amazement at the t.v., at the sheer brass balls of the showrunners; but also it was gorgeous. So, so beautiful, so lovingly rendered, that it did read as heavenly, in a way. Everyone was safe! Everyone was still alive! The writers continued to play with this idea throughout their explorations of the altverse--see altCharlie, alive and well--and I think that's what helped me, and many others, find "Fringe" so much richer and more emotionally resonant than a "mere" sci-fi niche show would be.

I've long thought that "Fringe" was one of the most fascinating artistic reactions to 9/11, if not "about" it directly. Would I rush to the HeavenVerse if I could see my father again? Maybe...but what would I sacrifice on this side? How do you make the choice, and how will it ripple out? That is some deep, powerful stuff there. I remain awed. :)

#113

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 3:44 PM

And yet, for every life saved in the Altverse, one or more have been lost: the White House for the twin towers, Rachel and Ella for Charlie, thousands of casualties to rifts or smallpox or in amber. Until the bridge was built, prople lived in constant, rational fear of the next event. I can't accept that the other side is any better. Different in some ways, some better, some worse.

Edited by jophan, May 2, 2012 @ 3:47 PM.


#114

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 1:28 AM

This was the best episode for me in a while. I have been out of love with the show for at least six or seven episodes partly because of the romance, partly because it had lost its hard edges and partly because the longer the season went on there was no denying Walter and especially Walternate were being sidelined. But I will tolerate a lot to have got that incredible Walter-Walternate scene. Noble was simply stunning. Why Fringe when you have this man and the many dimensions of Walter did you let the show slip away from telling his story?

#115

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:37 AM

I think Fringe has so many angles to tell that they can't possibly concentrate on all of them at the same time. I feel confident though that next season will see a shift back to Walter (and Walter and Peter). I didn't have a problem with John Noble being left on the back burner this season, if only because Seasons 2 and 3 featured him so strongly. But yes, I too am wanting to see more of him next season.

#116

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:48 AM

I don't think any of our 3 leads get sidelined. The showrunners do a good job of exploring all 3 characters.

#117

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 8:51 AM

I don't think any of our 3 leads get sidelined. The showrunners do a good job of exploring all 3 characters.


I agree. There are ebbs and flows as stories play out but over time I think they all get their time in the sun :)

#118

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Posted Dec 2, 2012 @ 12:16 AM

I've been doing a rewatch, just one or two episodes a day for the past few months, and I have to say, this is the first episode that made me really, truly cry. I knew it was coming, I remember this episode from when it first aired, but still, when the altUniverse characters flickered out of sight I still gasped and started crying. I really didn't care one bit about Nick Lane or Jones or any of that stuff, but all the good-byes and final interactions between the characters just killed me.

I also loved when Peter and Lincoln are talking about which side Peter will stay on, how the camera angle suddenly moves so that we can see Lincoln's face reflected on the computer screen. He's suddenly realized that he can start over and have a new life over there and they're literally showing us two Lincolns. Just one of those lovely little details that Fringe is so good at.

#119

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Posted Dec 2, 2012 @ 10:24 AM

My favorite scene in this was the amazing John Noble acting opposite himself as they discussed Peter and how he had grown into the man they had hoped their own son would have been. Very bittersweet and beautiful.

#120

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Posted Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:56 PM

I rather liked getting to see s Nick Lane (from Over There) who wasn't a basket case. David Call was always a good guest star, and I'd love to see him on his own show. (or has he been on one slready?)

BTW, we should expect to see familiar guest faces from Fringe pop up on Joel Wyman's new show. Perhaps even in lead roles. I would LOVE to see David Call in a lead part.

The thing I liked most about the episode was the insistence that one world would suffer more than the other because of this solution. It was a desperation move that wouldn't come out even steven. How noble the Redverse was to accept that.