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3-20: "Do Not Go Gentle" 2012.04.26 (recap)


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#91

ande

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 7:22 PM

Maybe he should have expressed that maybe he took the easiest quickest MOST destructive way to solve the problem.


Actually, I think the easiest, quickest most destructive way to have solved the problem would have been if he immediately went and turned the first Bennett he found as soon as Elijah threatened to kill Elena. That's what season one and probably season two Damon would have done. What season three Damon did was find an alternate plan of daggering one of the originals to thwart Elijah. That plan actually worked (the whole gang, sans Bonnie, helped) until Klaus caught them and reversed it at which point Elijah then moved up the deadline giving Damon, Stefan and the rest of the gang virtually no time to come up with another plan. Damon then turned Abby, not Bonnie, which I'm pretty sure was on purpose, to save Elena. Bonnie placing pretty much all the blame on Damon and to a lesser extent, Stefan, is unfair. Esther and the other Originals are far more to blame than him, especially since I feel very strongly that if he'd have let Elena die, she'd have been just as ticked off at him, which is why I think his snarky 'apology' to her was exactly what she deserved.

#92

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:45 PM

I realized after this episode that I am over this show. We got more grief and mourning for Alaric than Elena & Jeremy ever showed for Jenna, their freaking aunt. Seriously?! I want to rationalize that this was the final straw that broke Elena's vampire-loving back, but the emotions felt so ridiculously misplaced to me. And I say this as someone who liked Alaric.

I am so sick of the Salvatores mowing down everyone to save Elena. This is not a "save the doppelganger; save the world" scenario. The only thing Elena's trying to hold on to her is her humanity; while everyone else gets turned/killed so she can stay human. I've lost all sympathy for the character and it's just beyond stupid now. Who else loses their humanity/life so this insipid, self-absorbed girl can retain hers? And I still can't understand what is so appealing about the character that the others continually keep protecting.

At least Buffy saved the freaking world about a 1000 times.

Edited by Sarkygal, Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:46 PM.


#93

Luluzinha

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:28 PM

We got more grief and mourning for Alaric than Elena & Jeremy ever showed for Jenna, their freaking aunt. Seriously?! I want to rationalize that this was the final straw that broke Elena's vampire-loving back, but the emotions felt so ridiculously misplaced to me. And I say this as someone who liked Alaric.

[As I recall], the show skipped a large amount of time after Jenna's death and we didn't get to see their most crying/desperate moment. And the fact that they held it together was largely helped by Alaric's presence, who's now gone. They have no one left now (which was true before, but he was willing to step in) and this all is on the day it happened, so I don't think it was misplaced at all. I've cried like that for people I was a lot less close to...

The only thing Elena's trying to hold on to her is her humanity; while everyone else gets turned/killed so she can stay human.


While I agree that the show is a little overboard with "saving Elena's life is the only thing that matters" this seems to me to be inaccurate. Here's the thing: they can turn her, but they have a living-dead exaple (Katherine) of what would happen if they'd tried that move: Elena would have to go on the run and Klaus would kill just about everyone she's ever met (Salvatores included) so not turning her is not only protecting her humanity, but everyone else in their close circle as well. The only person that's been sacrificed so Elena wouldn't be a vampire was John, and he did that voluntarily.

The other possible solution (stop trying to kill Klaus, let him use her blood) is fine by me, but probably risky as well, since if Klaus wants to leave, he would want to take her with him. In my head this is less risky than trying to kill him all the time, but since he hasn't tried to kill them back, maybe it's not. Also, this solution means sitting still and doing nothing and becoming completely subservent to Klaus's will, which probably doesn't sit well with any of our protagonists (although I wish Elena would at least point out that it might not be worth the effort... she can handle a few blood donations every once in a while, let's not pretend she gives a shit about the hybrids he creates/the people they kill).

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:47 PM.


#94

wildling

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:32 PM

As used to as I am to Damon's non-apologies to Bonnie, we're talking about the same guy who said he would kill her off if that's what it takes to save Elena and, this time, it was a win/win situation for it would've saved Bonnie's mother as well. Damon knows it, Bonnie knows it, even my dog knows it and yet I haven't heard a single line to justify why Damon didn't take the obvious call in this matter when all the people involved knew what that call was.

Bonnie and Abby aren't blameless in all this. They involved themselves in the anti-original mix and Abby got burned. I get Bonnie being pissed (even though blaming it solely on Damon seems all kinds of wrong), but I think she's pushing her anger at her mother for leaving (both times) onto Damon, because he really didn't have much of a choice unless he was willing to let Elena die...

And I'm sure it's also Alaric's fault that he got turned, much like it was Esther's fault she got killed and probably Bonnie's fault that she got possessed. Only thing is, with that kind of premise, I couldn't care less about the episode. If there's no one to blame, then I don't see the point to watch a bunch of suicidal non-victims 'blame it' on monsters who 'don't have much of a choice' in this.

Feels as useless as to spend 98% of an episode saying goodbye to a history teacher that's not really gone because he's a vampire.

Edited by wildling, Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:45 PM.


#95

NickyJean

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:46 PM

The other possible solution (stop trying to kill Klaus, let him use her blood) is fine by me, but probably risky as well, since if Klaus wants to leave, he would want to take her with him. In my head this is less risky than trying to kill him all the time, but since he hasn't tried to kill them back, maybe it's not. Also, this solution means sitting still and doing nothing and becoming completely subservent to Klaus's will, which probably doesn't sit well with any of our protagonists (although I wish Elena would at least point out that it might not be worth the effort... she can handle a few blood donations every once in a while, let's not pretend she gives a shit about the hybrids he creates/the people they kill).


The only way he can use the blood she gives him is by him going off and killing werewolves to make hybrids. I have a problem with that. He's turning werewolves that probably haven't hurt anyone purposefully (I say that because you need to kill to turn but it can be an accident). These people probably don't want to hurt anyone but sure Klaus won't kill anyone Elena loves but he's killing other people/werewolves. In the choosing sides of Vampires vs Werewolves. Vampires are monsters and evil, Werewolves are cursed some enjoying some tortured by it. I've always sided with Werewolves it's just who I am.

I'm back on the Kill Klaus train. He wants an indestructible army because his mom who is in a coffin at his mercy might someday be a hazard to him. He's on the cray cray train and it's annoying and sad.

#96

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:50 PM

Feels as useless as to spend 98% of an episode saying goodbye to a history teacher that's not really gone because he's a vampire.


It's a little bit more than that. The person known as Alaric Saltzman, history teacher did in fact die. The thing in possession of his body now is NOT Alaric. Esther deliberately destroyed a good person and created a raging psychopath in his place - a psychopath who is now practically indestructible. Nice work, bitch. May you die many horrible agonizing deaths.

#97

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:53 PM

it was Esther's fault she got killed

Well, in fairness Esther was kind of bitch who blamed her son for her mistakes and apparently killed his first doppelganger gf. She couldn't be killed too many times for me. Also, esther is the queen of 'look what somebody else did that was so bad that is actually my own fault' so maybe she's not the best example (this might be a witchy trait!).

Only thing is, with that kind of premise, I couldn't care less about the episode. If there's no one to blame, then I don't see the point to watch a bunch of suicidal non-victims 'blame it' on monsters who 'don't have much of a choice' in this.

Sometimes bad shit happens and it really is nobody or maybe everybody's fault. If Bonnie wants someone to blame for Abby, she could always blame elijah (or anyone else on the list). She choses to blame Damon because she hates him already, that doesn't make it entirely logical.

Edited by My Way, Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:54 PM.


#98

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:55 PM

We got more grief and mourning for Alaric than Elena & Jeremy ever showed for Jenna, their freaking aunt.


Well I myself was very happy that they did not prolong the moaning of Aunt Jenaís death that was just too touching for me. Although the parts leading up to aunt Jenaís death was long and grief stricken for me, I cried right along with Elena and Aunt Jenna. That is why; to this day, I Do Not like Klaus.
But for Ric, it was just not the same, yes I teared up, but I guess it was because Ric was taking it like a man, not crying so hard like Aunt Jenna and Elena.
Well I must say from Season 1 though Season 3 ďLOVED ALL OF THEMĒ This episode really showed each and every characters great acting skills, they truly performed. I am glad Bonnie got a little fun, and Damon interrupting her 7 minutes of Heaven, was funny. I wonder if Damon will run back in the tomb and save her, maybe then she will start liking Damon as a friend. Or will Bonnie become a vampire too, that would mean Ester got two for the price of one.
Also, I donít know, maybe itís me. But I think Nina and Paul have that deep down chemistry working for each other, itís just something there, and itís not their expert acting either. Maybe I am a psychopathic viewer.
Thank you V.D. writers and directors, loved every minute of this episode, feed me C-mo.
Poor Beckka..

#99

vgerd

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

But I think Nina and Paul have that deep down chemistry working for each other, itís just something there, and itís not their expert acting either.


Funny. I see no romantic chemistry there at all. Friendship, yes. More than that, no.

#100

wildling

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 11:10 PM

[Bonnie]choses to blame Damon because she hates him already, that doesn't make it entirely logical.

If I'm supposed to believe that Damon acting like Bonnie should be grateful he didn't turn on her has nothing to do with this, then I'd have to say this episode has done an particularly bad job trying to sell the idea.

It's a little bit more than that. The person known as Alaric Saltzman, history teacher did in fact die.

Then I'm confident you can understand the kind of problem I have with the situation of Bonnie, Esther and so on in light of this.

Edited by wildling, Apr 27, 2012 @ 11:18 PM.


#101

Suspectno1

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:19 AM

And how could they even be sure she would help? She and Abby appeared to be on Esther's side when they helped her cast the spell. Yes, she wants to save Elena in theory. But maybe she would have thought sacrificing Elena was worth getting rid of the Originals.

To be fair everyone agreed with Esther's plan and were on her side except Elena at the last minute due to Elijah. IMO I think that Bonnie would not have sacrifaced Elena, Elena is one of the main reasons she is always helping and getting involved.

#102

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 2:44 AM

Or will Bonnie become a vampire too, that would mean Ester got two for the price of one.

Ester wouldn't want Bonnie to become a vampire because it would mean she is no longer a witch. She is only useful to Ester with her powers intact.

But I think Nina and Paul have that deep down chemistry working for each other, itís just something there, and itís not their expert acting either.

I don't believe them as a couple because I don't see any chemistry there. Friends, yes, but not romantic partners.

#103

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:00 AM

The other possible solution (stop trying to kill Klaus, let him use her blood) is fine by me, but probably risky as well, since if Klaus wants to leave, he would want to take her with him. In my head this is less risky than trying to kill him all the time, but since he hasn't tried to kill them back, maybe it's not. Also, this solution means sitting still and doing nothing and becoming completely subservent to Klaus's will, which probably doesn't sit well with any of our protagonists (although I wish Elena would at least point out that it might not be worth the effort... she can handle a few blood donations every once in a while, let's not pretend she gives a shit about the hybrids he creates/the people they kill).


I agree. Elena said she do not want to see any of her friends hurt /or killed, than she should try to talk to Klaus . Not let Damon ,or Stefan do it for her. Hell, she can have Elijah talk to Klaus for her. Elena should offer to put donate blood to a blood bank, where Klaus can get the blood if he needs it. Klaus is a reasonable person, the fact that he hasn't already killed Damon and Stefan means he can be reason with. So if she explain that it not reasonable for her to have to go with him, and how it would slow him down, and all, he might not take her along with him. Especially if she makes it clear that she do not want to turn,and will not be turned. I think Klaus might only want to take Elena with him because he think she will be turned by the Salvatores. I think that would be much better than risking all her friends lives to save her blood.


The only way he can use the blood she gives him is by him going off and killing werewolves to make hybrids. I have a problem with that. He's turning werewolves that probably haven't hurt anyone purposefully (I say that because you need to kill to turn but it can be an accident). These people probably don't want to hurt anyone but sure Klaus won't kill anyone Elena loves but he's killing other people/werewolves. In the choosing sides of Vampires vs Werewolves. Vampires are monsters and evil, Werewolves are cursed some enjoying some tortured by it. I've always sided with Werewolves it's just who I am.


Well all werewolves have killed already. So all of them are responsable for someone's death. They do not have control over their action as a werewolf,and it's painful to turn, but as a hybrid they do have more choices, so I agree with Tyler, it much better. So in some ways Klaus is freeing them. Did anyone notice that Klaus set out to make a hybrid family because he didn't want to be alone. He didn't want to be the only hybrid in the whole wide world. Yet when he threaten by his parents, ( First Mikael, than Esther) he want to make a hybrid army? He only need the army to stop them.


Well, in fairness Esther was kind of bitch who blamed her son for her mistakes and apparently killed his first doppelganger gf. She couldn't be killed too many times for me. Also, esther is the queen of 'look what somebody else did that was so bad that is actually my own fault' so maybe she's not the best example (this might be a witchy trait!).



There is only so much abuse one person can take, and it seem like Klaus was single out for abuse even before his father found out that he wasn't his child. Esther allow the abuse to continue and never step in to stop it. But not stopping it she contribute to it. Then when her misdeed was discover instead of blaming herself, she made Klaus the blame when she agree with Mikael. To top it off they killed/or turn Klaus's one true love to place the curse on him. So I understand why Klaus killed her in a fit of rage. What I don't understand if why he didn't drop her in the middle of the ocean? Esther do not seem like a loving mother, she seem like a selfish one. She turn her kids into vampires because "SHE" couldn't handle the grief of losing another one. She took away their choice of getting married and having a family. It wasn't witches who made vampire to keep the werewolves in line, it was Esther. It wasn't witches who felt that Klaus was too powerful , that too was Esther. Now she wants to kill all of them just when they starting to have a life. So I do not feel sorry for Esther. I hope Bonnie kick her but back to the 1300 century .

Edited by luvprue1, Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:50 PM.


#104

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 5:10 AM

Though at this point, losing Elena is a price I'm willing to pay heh.

WORD TO ALL OF THIS. She has officially leaped into Bella Swan category for me; I loathe her. Good riddance I say.

The triangle is all sorts of boring. I don't care who she ends up with. I just want her to leave town with her choice.

The Salvatore brothers, please grow some dignity and respect and stop pining for the same woman.

Alaric's so called "death" was predictable and pretty meh.

Liked Caroline, Tyler, Bonnie and Jeremy scenes. Matt wouldn't be a such a bore if they gave him an actual storyline that lasted. Make him a hunter already.

Klaus, the worst and most pathetic villain ever. Please leave town as soon as possible and take the doppleganger with you.

Bring back Elijah only. Get rid of the rest of the originals, they are a waste of space.

Worst season so far and the ratings reflect it. Also can't wait till the season ends and that's a bad sign for me to want that.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 28, 2012 @ 11:29 PM.
Fixed quote tags


#105

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 5:26 AM


The only way he can use the blood she gives him is by him going off and killing werewolves to make hybrids. I have a problem with that. He's turning werewolves that probably haven't hurt anyone purposefully (I say that because you need to kill to turn but it can be an accident). These people probably don't want to hurt anyone but sure Klaus won't kill anyone Elena loves but he's killing other people/werewolves. In the choosing sides of Vampires vs Werewolves. Vampires are monsters and evil, Werewolves are cursed some enjoying some tortured by it. I've always sided with Werewolves it's just who I am.



Well all werewolves have killed already. So all of them are responsible for someone's death. They do not have control over their action as a werewolf,and it's painful to turn, but as a hybrid they do have more choices, so I agree with Tyler, it much better. So in some ways Klaus is freeing them. Did anyone notice that Klaus set out to make a hybrid family because he didn't want to be alone. He didn't want to be the only hybrid in the whole wide world. Yet when he threaten by his parents, ( First Mikael, than Esther) he want to make a hybrid army? He only need the army to stop them.


A sired Tyler, one with so little free will he bit the love of his life and weened Jeremy off of vervain. It's one thing to have a force yourself in a locked room and go through an agonizing change once a month on the full moon. Its quite another to have no control at all unless your sire allows it. But allowing that maybe some werewolves would chose that much like agreeing to be turned like Lee or Isabel. I can completely accept that. If Elena makes a deal with Klaus that only willing people can be turned then I'm ok with that. I also freely admitted that a Werewolf can only become on if he's killed someone, but that could be accidentally, self defense or heat of war. People already carry that guilt around. That is upped a notch by turning into a werewolf and having a torturous change once a month. I don't think that should condemn them to Klaus's army because Klaus is lonely.

--moving on--
I have to go back to the Alric topic. When he killed Ester that was completely him. If we are to believe Ester then she talked to Alric constantly between death points. So where did that leave Gilbert girl. Damon killed her but did she die more then once. Also what was the obsession with the Founders, even if they weren't killing enough vampires, killing them still made no sense. somebody give me some theories on this because this so doesn't add up. I'm thinking that a Damon/Alric will be in the finally because of it.

#106

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 6:02 AM

The other possible solution (stop trying to kill Klaus, let him use her blood) is fine by me, but probably risky as well, since if Klaus wants to leave, he would want to take her with him.


He also wants Elena to have children so the Petrova bloodline can continue and explicitly said he would make sure of that. I think the only thing they can do is kill Klaus, or find a way to neutralize him.

So where did that leave Gilbert girl. Damon killed her but did she die more then once. Also what was the obsession with the Founders, even if they weren't killing enough vampires, killing them still made no sense. somebody give me some theories on this because this so doesn't add up. I'm thinking that a Damon/Alric will be in the finally because of it.

[snip] I'm afraid it doesn't make any sense.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 28, 2012 @ 11:31 PM.
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#107

Luluzinha

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 7:37 AM

He also wants Elena to have children so the Petrova bloodline can continue and explicitly said he would make sure of that. I think the only thing they can do is kill Klaus, or find a way to neutralize him.

Shit, I'd forgotten about that. You're right, gotta get rid of him... or distract him somehow... for about 80 year or so heh.

#108

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:32 AM

In the choosing sides of Vampires vs Werewolves. Vampires are monsters and evil, Werewolves are cursed some enjoying some tortured by it. I've always sided with Werewolves it's just who I am.


I could not be more different. While the class aspect between the species divide has been explored in other series (e.g. Underworld, Trueblood), that is the lens through which which I view it-- it's just who I am. Vampires are urbane, cultured, and sophisticated-- the nobility of the supernatural. Werewolves are trailer trash that depress the quality of any vampire series in which they appear. The fact that there is such a paucity of werewolf-only or werewolf-primary shows and movies clearly establishes the pecking order in the supernatural Zeitgeist. Werewolves can't carry their own series. They always have to piggyback off vampires. I wish werewolves could stand alone. Then they could be on their own show, and I wouldn't have to see them.

Also, don't forget, that unless a vampire asks to be turned, what he or she essentially is is a murder victim

I also have to chime in about Bonnie's irrationality in pinning the blame for her mother solely on Damon. Does she even know he only did it to spare Stefan from it, who was fully prepared to do it? Would she have preferred that he kiiled her mother? Or turned or killed Bonnie herself? Or let Elena die? Because those were the five choices from my vantage point, and the Salvatores picked the best from the quintet of all bad ones. They gave Abby a chance. She could've learned to live like Stefan, Caroline, and even Damon has started to. It's not the brothers' fault she's an abandoner by instinct.

That being said, I'm now going to contradict myself and defend Bonnie's lack of ability to have rational perspective in the this case. She's one who always gets hurt, and directly or indirectly, it happens because of the existence and presence of vampires. Really bad things, other than Elena's parents death, didn't start happening to her friends and family until the Salvatores came to Mystic Falls.

#109

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:59 AM

Also, I donít know, maybe itís me. But I think Nina and Paul have that deep down chemistry working for each other, itís just something there, and itís not their expert acting either. Maybe I am a psychopathic viewer.


No it's not just you. The first time I watched season one I was drawn by the way they looked at each other. Then the lame Klaus storyline came alon and pretty much killed their relationship to make room for Delena but I still love the intense way he looks at her, like during the dance. That's why I can't stop shipping them despite how much their relationship is screwed up now. Yes, Delena have chemistry and they are hot but it doesn't seem so deep to me.

#110

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:03 AM

Really bad things, other than Elena's parents death, didn't start happening to her friends and family until the Salvatores came to Mystic Falls.

And the Salvatores only came to MFs because Stefan was stalking Elena which makes this all Stefans fault! Hee. (of course in reality every bit of it is ultimately Esther's fault)

Seriously, although I don't think it's fair of Bonnie to blame Damon for everything (and as I said earlier, I think she's pushing her anger at mother onto Damon-it's not his fault she's horrid), I completely understand her impulse to irrationally blame Damon for everything. She did the same thing when Caroline became a vampire. It's easier to turn that hatred onto someone else and Damon is there and easier to impact than Klaus/Elijah.

Edited by My Way, Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:06 AM.


#111

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:46 AM

I am completely spoiled most of the time but did not (but probably should have) see(n) the ending coming. I spent the last twenty minutes crying about Alaric's death and although we did actually have to mourn his death, here comes Super Original Vamp Alaric. I wonder if they're gonna kill him with The Stake.


I kinda knew where they were going with this when Ester took Elena to Alaric. I was really hoping that for once they'd have a human with enhanced abilities to counter all the overpowered vamps/werewolves/witches running around. I'd have accepted it if Ester turned Alraic to that kind of vampire hunter. That way he'd still remain his own self & we could still have the Damon bromance. This plotline was just meh... ANOTHER angsty vampire in the mix.

#112

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:53 AM

I also have to chime in about Bonnie's irrationality in pinning the blame for her mother solely on Damon. Does she even know he only did it to spare Stefan from it, who was fully prepared to do it? Would she have preferred that he kiiled her mother? Or turned or killed Bonnie herself? Or let Elena die? Because those were the five choices from my vantage point, and the Salvatores picked the best from the quintet of all bad ones. They gave Abby a chance. She could've learned to live like Stefan, Caroline, and even Damon has started to. It's not the brothers' fault she's an abandoner by instinct.


I agree, and I understand her right to be angry but I would love to know what other choice there was other than turning her or Abbie, or letting Elena die. The witches had to be turned or they would still be witches. Damon did make another choice, they staked Kol. They spent the time trying to find another way. It would have been nice if Damon could have been more sincere in his apology but everything that happens is not his fault. Also, I don't believe bad things always happen to her but no one else. I would say Elena and Jeremy have lost so many more people, sometimes it's just due to Elena's stupidity and sometimes to the fact she was born the doppelganger. If anything, Jeremy has it the worst. He lost his parents, Viki, Anna, Jenna, John, and Alaric in one year.

Edited by redbudrose, Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:53 AM.


#113

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

I'm back on the Kill Klaus train. He wants an indestructible army because his mom who is in a coffin at his mercy might someday be a hazard to him. He's on the cray cray train and it's annoying and sad.


If it helps at all, the costumes had me rehashing the dance scene thusly:

Klaus/Gatsby: Daisy! I mean Caroline! Come away with me! I'm wealthy and soon to be very popular with my future hybrid army. It'll be parties every night and splendor for eternity! Hot jazz and champagne flutes of blood!

Caroline: I simply cannot be with you! I'm not that girl! I love Tom, er Tyler!

Tyler: Tom? Really? You think I'm that big of a dick?

Caroline: Sorry, got caught in the moment.

Klaus: Be with me, Daisy! There is no way this could ever end badly!


That said, I enjoyed the episode if I made a point of not asking questions. I still don't quite understand why they brought up Samantha Gilbert if it wasn't really possession so much as Esther coaxing out the "darkness" in people. What was the point of having two characters go after the Council for supposed pro-vampire sentiment (which I never really saw in the 1864 Council, but I digress) if all Esther really wanted was a supreme Original hunter? I'll rewatch tonight, but that seems so muddy to me right now.

And I really wanted to feel surprised or shocked by Alaric becoming a vampire, but I felt more numb than anything else. So much crap happened to him, and I always felt he wasn't long for the world if he was going to stay in Mystic Falls. It also seemed like an inevitability that Elena and Jeremy would lose yet another guardian if only to further push Elena into feeling like she's all alone. I'm not saying she is all alone, but the writers seem pretty invested in that theme this season.

Edited by ardentshine, Apr 28, 2012 @ 1:40 PM.


#114

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 5:07 PM

I blame the "shocking twist" after "shocking twist", after awhile it feels recycled and dull. Especially when there's no follow-up between the last one and the next.


This is the crux of it I think. We need more light and shade, as they say in the music business.

#115

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 5:11 PM

A sired Tyler, one with so little free will he bit the love of his life and weened Jeremy off of vervain. It's one thing to have a force yourself in a locked room and go through an agonizing change once a month on the full moon. Its quite another to have no control at all unless your sire allows it. But allowing that maybe some werewolves would chose that much like agreeing to be turned like Lee or Isabel. I can completely accept that. If Elena makes a deal with Klaus that only willing people can be turned then I'm ok with that. I also freely admitted that a Werewolf can only become on if he's killed someone, but that could be accidentally, self defense or heat of war. People already carry that guilt around. That is upped a notch by turning into a werewolf and having a torturous change once a month. I don't think that should condemn them to Klaus's army because Klaus is lonely.


Damon said the sire bond is very rare, so we can't say for sure that everyone Klaus has turn will have the same bond as Tyler. Mikeal was able to turn them all against Klaus, so compulsion overrule the sire bond. But as Damon said the sire bond is very rare, and so far we only know Tyler to experience it. We do not know that all of them feel the same way. Klaus threaten to make a army, however he only does that when he is threaten by his mother,or father. Other than that he just want to have friends like him. He first set wasn't all that threatening ,and was way easy to kill. I think if his parent was no longer a threat, Klaus wouldn't need a army. Just a few friend. I also do not see anything wrong with Klaus wanting the Petrova 's bloodline to continue. Elena should want that as well. Although Klaus and Elena have different reason for doing so. I do not think it's a big deal, since they both want the same thing,and a doppleganger are rare and only come about every 500 years.



I have to go back to the Alric topic. When he killed Ester that was completely him. If we are to believe Ester then she talked to Alric constantly between death points. So where did that leave Gilbert girl. Damon killed her but did she die more then once. Also what was the obsession with the Founders, even if they weren't killing enough vampires, killing them still made no sense. somebody give me some theories on this because this so doesn't add up. I'm thinking that a Damon/Alric will be in the finally because of it.


I would like to know more about that too. So far we only know of two people who was affect by the ring, Alaric and Samantha Gilbert. So if it wasn't the ring that was affect Alaric , but it was was Esther instead, than was Esther messing with Samantha Gilbert as well?

#116

DigiKing

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 5:37 PM

Maybe she wanted Samantha to be her weapon, but it wasn't the right time? Or she couldn't get out to do some of the more hands-on aspects of the spell to create a new Original, and by the time she had the plan lined up Samantha was already dead?

So Alaric is just the most recent choice. I have to say, I'm glad Esther's not Katherine, or else as soon as they saved Alaric, Jeremy would start stabbing people. That woman loved her plan bcdefgh...etc.

Subscriber: I was thinking in the direction of human with "superpowers" as well when Esther pitched her idea. I actually have wondered about that ever since S1 when Matt was coming out of the school after Tanner's death...framed by light in profile and wearing under-armor, he looked like a superhero. What with his existing tie through Vicki and Elena and his growing suspicion, I was thinking that maybe they would go that way, but alas, it didn't happen.

#117

Viva Elijah

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 7:56 PM

I also have to chime in about Bonnie's irrationality in pinning the blame for her mother solely on Damon. Does she even know he only did it to spare Stefan from it, who was fully prepared to do it? Would she have preferred that he kiiled her mother? Or turned or killed Bonnie herself? Or let Elena die? Because those were the five choices from my vantage point, and the Salvatores picked the best from the quintet of all bad ones. They gave Abby a chance. She could've learned to live like Stefan, Caroline, and even Damon has started to. It's not the brothers' fault she's an abandoner by instinct.

That being said, I'm now going to contradict myself and defend Bonnie's lack of ability to have rational perspective in the this case. She's one who always gets hurt, and directly or indirectly, it happens because of the existence and presence of vampires. Really bad things, other than Elena's parents death, didn't start happening to her friends and family until the Salvatores came to Mystic Falls.

Yeah, night returns. I don't think enough time has passed for me to expect Bonnie to get caught up on the technicalities and nitty gritty of who was at the heart of that crazy ass plan. Damon actually committed the deed so the bulk of her rage is justifiably aimed towards him.

[snip] I think there are characters on the show whose actions are much more questionable than [Bonnie’s]. It doesn't speak well of the writers that regular viewers can't even remember that Bonnie has a father. She doesn't live alone. She has always lived with her dad. We've just never seen him. She is just so poorly and offensively drawn. She looked great at the dance though. I am impatiently awaiting the day that Bonnie tells everyone to go straight to hell and leaves town. But not before wreaking some havoc. Maybe Caroline can go with her. That would show Klaus that Caroline needs him for absolutely nothing. What's stopping Caroline from seeing the world now? It's not like Mystic Falls is such a safe and inviting place to live anyway.

Are Elena and Bonnie still in an iffy place? I wouldn't care. I just thought it was interesting that Caroline had to tell Elena that Bonnie was bringing Jamie to the dance.

I think Bonnie was possessed. She liked/cared for Alaric. I don't believe she would willfully use him as a tool to kill the Originals.

There has got to be a way to squash Esther. Were there no "sisters" on the other side that realized she was manipulating and condemning a fairly innocent human to a grotesque existence to rectify a situation that she herself created? No one tried to put a stop to that shit?!

I liked Tyler and Caroline, but I agree that Mr. Trevino's acting needs some work.

I could give a damn about Elena, Damon and Stefan.

I am also wondering why it is so necessary for every single one of Jeremy and Elena's parental figures to meet untimely and horrible deaths. Why? It's just getting old at this point. I drew the line at Jenna. John and Isobel had already died within a few episodes of Jenna's death last season. What's the tally now? Grayson, Miranda, Jenna, John, Isobel, Alaric...I am acknowledging that Isobel is not the best example of a parental guardian, but she was still Elena's birth mother. I get that she's the doppelganger and thus is kind of cursed, but damn.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 28, 2012 @ 11:33 PM.
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#118

luvprue1

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 8:45 PM

I think there are characters on the show whose actions are much more questionable than [Bonnie’s]. It doesn't speak well of the writers that regular viewers can't even remember that Bonnie has a father. She doesn't live alone. She has always lived with her dad. We've just never seen him. She is just so poorly and offensively drawn. She looked great at the dance though. I am impatiently awaiting the day that Bonnie tells everyone to go straight to hell and leaves town. But not before wreaking some havoc. Maybe Caroline can go with her. That would show Klaus that Caroline needs him for absolutely nothing. What's stopping Caroline from seeing the world now? It's not like Mystic Falls is such a safe and inviting place to live anyway.

I'm not a Bonnie fan, But even I must admit she was given a raw deal as far as storyline goes. She just met her mother,and most of the time they spent together was spent opening the coffin for Damon and Stefan. That after that the same guys Abby help to open the coffin turned her. So Bonnie storyline was not really about Bonnie getting to know her mother,because she didn't get to know her . Speaking of Bonnie, does anyone know if Bonnie slept with Jamie?

There has got to be a way to squash Esther. Were there no "sisters" on the other side that realized she was manipulating and condemning a fairly innocent human to a grotesque existence to rectify a situation that she herself created? No one tried to put a stop to that shit?!

I think Bonnie should be able to contact the witches on the other side to help deal with Esther. As much as the witches hate vampire, they will agree that what Esther is doing is wrong.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 28, 2012 @ 11:34 PM.
Quoted post was edited


#119

question fear

question fear

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 8:48 PM

I love this show, but this week I was screaming at the tv that there were two simple solutions to everyone's problems:

1) Turn Elena. Seriously, at this point she's more dangerous human.

2) Turn, then stake, Esther. Cuts off all her witchy interference AND if you definitely kill Klaus' mommy issues he might forgive Elena being turned.

Win/win. Of course, that's too logical....so we will probably not see either of those things happen. :(

#120

MidnightCupcake

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 3:07 AM

Stefan and Elena scenes make me want to vomit. Their relationship is so old and tiresome.

ELENA: I'm so hurt and vulnerable and teary eyed.
STEFAN: Don't be scared. I'll always be here for you. That is, except for the times I go off with Klaus and break your heart, because I can't stand to be with you unless I'm totally good.
ELENA: Oh Stefan! It's me 4 u foreva!

It was a fitting send-off for good Alaric. Now EvilAlaric can mop up some Originals and pave the way for next season's turmoil, which I hope will revolve around Bonnie no longer being a victim, or a handy nearby witch for evil guys to emotionally blackmail into helping them hurt everyone else.