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Megan and Don: Nanny and the Possessor


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#61

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 8:54 AM

Down low gossip is something the audience could easily be shown even as the staff makes sure Don and Megan don't hear it. He marries his secretary, promotes her then she puts on a mild burlesque for him at his swinging bachelor pad in front of everybody who works for him? They keep flextime - coming in late, leaving early?

This office would gossip, and more than "Boy is Megan hot." They'd gossip about DON. Jokes would be flying. This is way bigger than rumors about Peggy, or Don sleeping with Allison or Faye. This is bringing his bedroom into the office and meantime he's not doing his job, and everybody would be conscious of it. We should see that.

This story is weird, like Mad Men Lite, despite all the emoting from Don and Megan.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Apr 27, 2012 @ 8:57 AM.


#62

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:06 AM

makes me wonder if the entire marriage to Megan was done to patch in a hole caused by Weiner finally giving up the ghost and freeing Betty from the hell that was being married to Don Draper. That the whole thing is a heavily rewritten version of how Betty/Don was supposed to go before Weiner gave up the ghost and gave the fans the divorce we all wanted for the two:

What makes you think the Betty/Don divorce was Weiner pandering to fans? I think he has a specific story arc for each season. Last season he wanted to show us the effect of divorce on Don and the kids. But as Weiner noted, men in Don's position didn't stay divorced for very long. Ergo, enter Megan. The storylines with Megan this season would, IMO, have been impossible with Betty.

This season, and Don's marriage to Megan, have a very different feel from earlier seasons. It's often unsettling, but I don't find it boring.

#63

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:14 AM

I don't think that the office (or town) would gossip disparagingly about Don, especially not in the short term - Megan is not that foolish of a choice, she is younger but not Sinatra-Farrow or Grant-Cannon younger and she was not a dance hall girl. Usually the woman takes brunt of the heat and if Don is looped into the gossip, then people tend to be more circumspect.

There has been chatter about Megan and / or the Don-Megan relationship: Roger and Harry mocking the Megan's performance, Roger made a quip when Don re-tooled the Howard Johnson's trip, Pete said something in the taxi, Peggy has commented as well and finally Bert's little talk with Don - which wasn't gossip but an acknowledgement that Don's slacking off has not gone unnoticed and it is due to him being in love.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:19 AM.


#64

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 1:01 PM

If I worked there, I would be biding my time until I could sneak over to someone's desk to talk about how late they are, how Megan lives in Don's office, Zou Bisou!, her sudden relevance to meetings, Don's job performance, how Jane is/was/will forever be prettier, how Don looks in plaid (it sucks), how I miss working with Faye, etc...
They gossiped about Peggy and Ken even thought about her long enough to guess Peggy got fat due to Don's sperm. These are gossipy people. They gossip all the time, but not about Megan, who is the gossiping gift that keeps on giving. Today, people would be leaking tales of her to Gawker.
However, as a watcher of this TV show, I want something weightier. Don shirking work isn't even new territory. I can't figure out what exactly I am learning about him. And everyone else's reactions to Megan is beginning to feel forced and fake.

#65

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 1:24 PM

I would think people outside SCDP might be gossiping by now about Don's new young wife, and about whether he still has "it."

I am sure by now Faye Miller knows who Don married. It would be interesting to see if that ever comes back to haunt him. (I kind of doubt it, as the show doesn't seem to go in for that kind of thing.)

ETA: One thing that I find weird about the season is how SCDP seems to exist in a vacuum and we don't see or hear much of what's going on in the industry. I hope the lack of communication with the outside world is intentional and doesn't reflect cost-cutting measures behind the scenes.

Edited by BBDi, Apr 27, 2012 @ 1:28 PM.


#66

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 2:06 PM

Actually, didn't Don step out of the role of perfect husband with the ill-judged party? In Megan's head he was supposed to think the party was awesome and she was awesome and instead he made the mistake of grinning through the party and then...telling her how he really felt. And, like Megan, he had to repeat it several times, more and more bluntly, until she heard it. This, after acting in a way that everybody else could see projected discomfort.



I was really only talking about Don's pereception of Megan - but that's true.

It's a really weird relationship that they have. Don has Megan on this impossible pedestal, and seems to barely want much to do with anyone but her. Megan seems to want to please him, but when is she ever allowed to be her own person? How long can that last?

Something that struck me is how similar Hamm and Pare are, too. Both tall, lean, dark, with longish faces and good cheekbones. I'm sure it's totally incidental - but it can sometimes be oddly unsettling when Megan and Don are in scenes together.

#67

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 2:51 PM

Even in today's world Megan/Don would be Topic A of office gossip. She's Jr. in the creative team, senior as far as minding your p's and q's around her. Her being a former secretary. This stuff doesn't die - people talk about it years on. I know they do - I know a few cases that are less extreme yet when idle office chatter begins it goes straight there. When idle social chatter begins it goes there. I was at a party last year where a few people who hadn't gotten together in a few years socialized and conversation zoomed straight back to a "situation" at work a lot less glamorous than Don/Megan but still related to in-house canoodling by a couple of higher ups.

On top of Megan being a former secretary and new to creative, the two of them come and go together at off hours. There is no universe even today that's not going to chew the fat over that one. It would be climate changer number one in any office. Then you throw in her song and dance in front of everyone in the office at his b'day party and the jokes would never quit. I also find the reactions to Megan forced and weird. There was a reaction to the birthday party but not, IMO what the reaction to the b'day party would actually have been. It's like a gossip and mockfest dropped in people's laps and they ignored it. Instead the gossip was more about how she'd breached the Don code instead of what I firmly believe would actually have happened - OMG she did that in front of all of us!!! Let's get out of here so we can kill ourselves mocking and laughing! The schedule is just icing on the cake.

Hamm and Pare are similar in type but I think it's more that Weiner's own wife (to whom he's reputedly very attached and devoted) is an angular brunette with fair skin and striking coloring. I've always figured that's why Don's (non-Betty) types have been pretty much Hollywood versions of that physical type.

Here in New York a Don/Megan scenario - divorced ad man, creative head, impossibly handsome with a "reputation" (per Bobbi), who has three young kids and a remarried Grace Kelly-esque ex-wife in Westchester, marries his French-Canadian secretary after a whirlwind courtship that consisted mostly of her brilliant "nannying" of his kids" at Disneyland, promotes her to creative, they keep flextime hours arriving together late and leaving early, his mind is not in the game anymore and she throws a surprise party where in front of the entire office she does a quasi burlesque song and "dance" that includes hiking up her hem - dear Jesus. Page Six of the New York Post would get a year out of just that - no more details. Two available people in the same office, 14-15 year age gap (no biggie here) - add in that she was a secretary and was promoted after the marriage and a pre-existing creative team has to teach her the business but she comes and goes on his whim, and throw in that birthday party...

There's stuff at Conde' Nast, ad agencies, production corporations and elsewhere not nearly as juicy and fun that gets played to death- and that's in public. In private it never stops buzzing.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Apr 27, 2012 @ 3:07 PM.


#68

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 3:22 PM

It's like a gossip and mockfest dropped in people's laps and they ignored it. Instead the gossip was more about how she'd breached the Don code instead of what I firmly believe would actually have happened - OMG she did that in front of all of us!!! Let's get out of here so we can kill ourselves mocking and laughing! The schedule is just icing on the cake.


It makes me think of the Seinfeld ep where Elaine "dances" at the office party and she looks so ridiculous she loses everyone's respect overnight. There's a scene where she's talking on the phone not understanding the weird atmosphere in the office (since she doesn't know she's a terrible dancer) and while she's talking 3 people happen to walk by, stop, and all begin mimicking her dance behind her back.

Zou Bisou was totally at the level of that. As the show even admitted when Lane fantastically described watching Don's "soul leaving his body." It would become a catchphrase in the office for years to come. And it's not like it would be difficult to hide it from Don and Megan since they work their own schedules apparently. Ginsberg would have probably seen the story performed. Joan would have demanded Peggy's version of it as well, knowing Peggy's not only a woman but has just the right insight into Don and Joan to hit all the best points. (Love that there's no reference to it on MM now, but 30 Rock got in under the wire with a relevent parody this week.) I'd imagine there would be times when people in the office didn't even mean to be thinking about it and someone (especially Don or Megan) would do something that reminded them of it and they would start laughing. I almost imagine them pinching each other as it was happening to make sure it was really happening.

And that's not even referencing the jokes that would probably go on about their schedules. The season started (obviously intentionally) with Megan apologizing for being late when she walked in. By the last ep Megan was walking in after Stan who had apologized for being late and didn't even reference being late herself. You know they'd be riffing on the ad campaigns Megan and Don would be coming up with at Howard Johnson's ("Where all the Ho's take their Jo's!" or "Take your daughter--or somebody young enough to be your daughter!" or whatever).

I've just seen that HoJo's is doing a special deal where anybody named Don Draper stays for free. LOL!

#69

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 4:07 PM

Don is not Donald Trump or Rupert Murdoch - he is a big fish in a small pond. I doubt if he is known outside of industry circles and if he is it is because of his promiscuity, not his advertising genius. It sounds like Henry is more famous than Don and if there was a missed opportunity for a scandal, it was Betty's divorcing Don and immediately taking up with Henry.

An executive marrying his younger secretary is a cliche, although Megan continuing to work at SCDP is unusual, but I cannot see that being an actual scandal, rather it is a source of awkwardness and resentment around the office, which is being portrayed on the show. I just don't see DON being the subject of gossip in the short term other than as a supporting player to Megan. I don't think that the feedback mechanism is that quick, and in Don's case he has gone through malaises before, in addition to the disappearances, come to think of it, he is kinda a diva, a male version of Judy Garland. I guess if he was a more solid guy, then maybe the tongue-wagging would start right away, but I am still inclined to believe that the gossip will still be directed at the woman, unless he does something off-the-wall like growing his hair long and starts dressing like an English fop.

Now if Heinz is not put back on track and there are other debacles like Heinz, then that will start to reflect on Don, but the times are so tumultuous that I don't know if it will be attributed to Megan or to him just being a dinosaur from a previous era. Heinz should not have played out the way it did and Bert called Don out on it, if it serves as a proper wake up call for Don and he gets back in the game, if only as a mentor to the younger folks, then he will likely get a pass for his love leave.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 27, 2012 @ 4:13 PM.


#70

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

Now if Heinz is not put back on track and there are other debacles like Heinz, then that will start to reflect on Don, but the times are so tumultuous that I don't know if it will be attributed to Megan or to him just being a dinosaur from a previous era. Heinz should not have played out the way it did and Bert called Don out on it, if it serves as a proper wake up call for Don and he gets back in the game, if only as a mentor to the younger folks, then he will likely get a pass for his love leave.

It occurs to me that this explains why Don was more of a subject of gossip and grumbling last season than he is now -- because last year the new agency was in such a precarious position that he had to be held to account for every failure and foible. Everyone's livelihood depended on him being at the top of his game.

Now, though . . . the agency is stable and coasting. It doesn't really matter what Don does, so everyone just lets him do it, even if it's not doing the company a lick of good.

Which, come to think of it, is what's happening in Don's marriage as well. He proposed to Megan because it seemed to promise a life of little resistance. He didn't have to worry about dealing with his past or upsetting the kids; even their romance itself just seemed to fall into place thanks to a series of unplanned events. So now he's stable and coasting. He chose a life where it doesn't really matter what he does, so what he does becomes more and more empty and perfunctory.

What Pete said about the agency applies just as well to Megan and Don's relationship: "Stable is that step backwards between success and failure."

#71

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:46 PM

I don't think Don isn't being gossiped about now but the show isn't focusing on the people who would do the gossiping. Last year when Joey would say something about Don Peggy shut him down. She doesn't do that. Especially about Don. (Her moment with Joan, a favorite, was about her frustration and Joan is someone you can trust to vent to.) And now Joey is gone. Ginsburg is new. Stan has only had a few lines. Harry isn't really a focus. Ken couldn't care less about any of that shit. Pete has his own issues as does Roger. None of these people have had the time to just gossip about Don's habits.

I think, like Don, everyone is checked out to a degree and they just don't care about anything other than themselves. I am sure they are all annoyed with the situation.

Edited by Betsyb, Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:47 PM.


#72

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 11:58 PM

I think there's an undercurrent of gossip about the two of them, if only in small asides. After Megan is excited about the students in front of their apartment and mentions casting them, the instant she leaves the room, Stan asks, "She goes to casting now?" with barely concealed amusement. But Peggy's obviously Don's biggest advocate (even when he's frustrating her), and I think she's trying with Megan, or maybe sympathizes with her, which is why she defends her to Stan. She seems to be placing the blame solely on Don for things going downhill - her rant about being overworked at his birthday party is directed at him, not on Megan, which is pretty refreshing. Bert, also, makes it clear that responsibility for Creative's problems rest solely on Don's shoulders.

#73

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:42 AM

Here's something interesting: a GQ interview with the writer/producers of Far Away Places where they briefly talk about Don and Megan's relationship:

GQ: What was the key moment for you with Don and Megan's story?

Maria: Certainly a moment we discussed at great length in the room was Megan eating the orange sherbet.

André: That was the key to that story.

Maria: The idea that here's this beautiful, vivacious young woman who's completely different than Betty Draper in so many ways, and Don's just utterly enamored of her, yet wants to control her so desperately that he's even telling her what to eat. And this experience of having this ice cream, the fact that she doesn't like it really hurts him deeply. And that this is a story that was going to be about showing the audience just how deep his love for her and his attachment for him goes.

André: At an iconic restaurant. [Laughs]


Huh. I saw the episode completely differently from these two. Like so many on this thread, I don't see Don's feelings for Megan as actually being one of love-- at least of the companionate and compassionate variety-- at all. I certainly believe he wants to possess her to the point where her veering in the least off-script as being something that can set him off horribly, even violently. But I can't see this true love the writers insist on-- and I don't even see that much attachment from Megan either. She seems more... playing along with Don, while not quite understanding just how deep his dysfunction goes just yet.

I can't shake off my feeling that Don and Megan are more play-acting at their version of the "ideal" marriage than actually being married. And the fact that the writers seem to take for granted my viewing Don and Megan as a true couple is... unsettling. Now I'm wondering if the signs of a relationship disintegrating aren't actually meant to signal that at all! In which case, maybe Don and Megan are in the end-game of the show after all?

Something that struck me is how similar Hamm and Pare are, too. Both tall, lean, dark, with longish faces and good cheekbones. I'm sure it's totally incidental - but it can sometimes be oddly unsettling when Megan and Don are in scenes together.


They totally look as though they could be a father-daughter combination, especially since Don has been looking craggier than ever this current season (you could drive a volvo underneath his eye-bags of late) and Megan acts less like a 26-year-old than a gawky 20-year-old. Eurgh, now I have another reason to be uncomfortable with their scenes!

Don is not Donald Trump or Rupert Murdoch - he is a big fish in a small pond. I doubt if he is known outside of industry circles and if he is it is because of his promiscuity, not his advertising genius. It sounds like Henry is more famous than Don and if there was a missed opportunity for a scandal, it was Betty's divorcing Don and immediately taking up with Henry.


He's still well-known enough to be the face of his entire company, to be interviewed by the New York Times, to be the cause for the buying-out of SDCP, to win a Clio, and so on. I'm with the other posters when I say that I find the lack of gossip to be rather mind-boggling. There was barely even a vocabulary that existed in the 1960s to describe working married women, let alone working married women who won their new jobs by marrying the boss and then put on a cabaret act in front of the entire office.

Realistically, Megan and Don should be haunted by Zou Bisou Bisou-- and not just in a "Oooh, the sleazy guys at the office can't stop thinking about my hotness" sense either. What she did would be gossiped about endlessly in today's workplace-- in 1960s conservative America, that's the sort of thing that should become an industry legend! I can easily imagine Don's rivals at other agencies-- especially ones that courted him before but failed to get him-- yukking up over as much endlessly.

But I guess the show doesn't have time to deal with something that interesting when we could go round-and-round exploring Don's dysfunction and deep, deep love for a hastily sketched Franco-Canadian instead. ::sigh:: What frustrates me most about these two is even when there's something interesting to explore about their situation, the writers seem determined to wheel away from as much.

Why, why for the love of God, are they making the writing decisions that they are? Their reasoning completely eludes me at present.

Edited by Mariagonerlj, Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:45 AM.


#74

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 1:46 AM

Don is not Donald Trump or Rupert Murdoch - he is a big fish in a small pond. I doubt if he is known outside of industry circles and if he is it is because of his promiscuity, not his advertising genius. It sounds like Henry is more famous than Don and if there was a missed opportunity for a scandal, it was Betty's divorcing Don and immediately taking up with Henry.


Actually Don is well known in the advertising world, but it's mainly for his work. The season four interview storyline made a point to state that Don is INSANELY reclusive to those in the industry about who he is, what with his identity theft past he is forever is afraid of coming out. Also, Don is loyal to Roger, which is why he's stuck with him all of these years (rather than let himself be recruited by a bigger firm). His divorce and remarrying might be seen as a "price" to pay by the men in the business, given that Duck and Roger both are divorced (and Roger remarried).

That said, and this was barely touched on in season two, but Duck and his "the client is always right" notions probably might also be why Don has stayed with Sterling-Cooper; Roger and Bert will let Don be Don and yell at the clients and agressively push his ideas on them and that probably adds to why any mocking of Don and Megan is being done heavily on the downlow: Don's got a temper and as we have seen with Peggy, in the past and recent, it's not a good idea to pet a cat who is not afraid to claw your eyes out. And hell, even Pete is probably staying quite on it because of his own experience with Don: dude will call your bluff and the fates will protect him and leave you at his tender mercies to repent and repent big or else.

Edited by BakerX2, Apr 28, 2012 @ 1:47 AM.


#75

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:43 AM

He's still well-known enough to be the face of his entire company, to be interviewed by the New York Times, to be the cause for the buying-out of SDCP, to win a Clio, and so on. I'm with the other posters when I say that I find the lack of gossip to be rather mind-boggling.


I did not quote a passage for my last two comments, but the point that I was trying to make is that at this stage of the game MEGAN would be the source of he gossip as opposed to Don, and the gossip about Megan and the Megan-Don relationship will still be in the office and at most on Madison Avenue. I acknowledged that Don is well known in the industry for his work, but save Zou Bisou, I don't think that Don or even the Megan and Don relationship is being talked about significantly outside of SCDP and especially not away from Madison Avenue by say investment bankers, the theater crowd and whatever the 1966 equivalent of Page Six was.

I think that there has been office gossip and some measure of industry gossip about Megan and the relationship - which will still be more about Megan, but I don't see there being extensive gossip about Don's job performance at this time. Peggy and Bert have noticed it and commented about it, but I don't see Peggy at dinner with what's-her-name (the one who works for the magazine) discussing the latest about Don's late arrivals, how inattentive he is, blowing off meetings and not giving good guidance, but I can see them gossiping about Zou Bisou and the upgrade in Megan's wardrobe. I just don't think at this point that Don's chickens would have come home to roost in regards to his love leave, and they never will if he gets his butt into gear after being chided by Bert.

ETA:

Huh. I saw the episode completely differently from these two. Like so many on this thread, I don't see Don's feelings for Megan as actually being one of love-- at least of the companionate and compassionate variety-- at all. I certainly believe he wants to possess her to the point where her veering in the least off-script as being something that can set him off horribly, even violently. But I can't see this true love the writers insist on-- and I don't even see that much attachment from Megan either. She seems more... playing along with Don, while not quite understanding just how deep his dysfunction goes just yet.

I can't shake off my feeling that Don and Megan are more play-acting at their version of the "ideal" marriage than actually being married. And the fact that the writers seem to take for granted my viewing Don and Megan as a true couple is... unsettling. Now I'm wondering if the signs of a relationship disintegrating aren't actually meant to signal that at all! In which case, maybe Don and Megan are in the end-game of the show after all?

I don't necessarily see them as saying that Don's love for Megan is healthy or long lasting, but at this time the love and attachment is deep. It makes sense to me because I see Don as deeply screwed up and likely an alcoholic, but he is not going to go to therapy or join AA. What I am seeing is that Megan is Don's new addiction, but I can also see the vision being that there are cathartic elements as well to their relationship. Yeah it is volatile, but as I mentioned earlier, I don't think that Megan has the gravitas that Bert has, so she cannot have reasonable conversations with Don about their issues - I am still struck by how Don reacted to women with strong personalities like Rachel and even Bobbi. IMO Betty tried to communicate with Don about their sex life, presumably as a measure to get his to stop cheating, and it did not work. I don't know if Megan's will work either, but she made it clear that Don and not Betty was responsible for his "careless appetite," and if he cheats on her, he will be the responsible in that scenario too.

As I mentioned before, considering the alternatives, I'd much rather Don and Megan be the end-game of the show, however that does not mean that I want Mad Men to be the Don and Megan show. I'd rather see him slay his demons out of love for Megan, even if it is not an entirely healthy love, or determination not screw up another relationship, than to see him be a skirt chasing adulterer or falling apart as a single man. I don't think that Don and Betty were miserable for all of their marriage, and I think that it is realistic storytelling for Don and Megan to have enough going for them to keep them together for the next few years, and if there are cracks, they not show be a threat to the marriage until the late 70s / early 80s, at which time the show will be off the air and I don't have to be subjected to it.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 28, 2012 @ 8:56 AM.


#76

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 8:58 AM

When Don proposed to Megan my reaction was similar to Joan and Peggy's but seeing them together this season has really sucked me into their web. I like them. The marriage was totally impulsive and reckless but seeing them together I think they do have a surprising compatibility.

#77

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:19 AM

From the GQ Interview

Maria: The idea that here's this beautiful, vivacious young woman who's completely different than Betty Draper in so many ways[Laughs]


Yes - very different. Betty has depth.

I want to try and like Megan - I liked s4 Megan - but if she's just going to be presented as some sort of angelic alternative to Betty (who was apparently the cause of all Don's woes) then they diminish the character, imo. It just wanders into Mary-Sue territory.

For me, Don and Megan married without really knowing each other. Don's whole self-examination kick totally sputtered to a halt. Megan's adventures in New York as a young, unattached working woman turned into life as the younger wife of her possessive boss. Exploring that, and whether they can actually build a marriage, might be interesting. At the moment, it's just vaguely irritating.

Edited by Jenn, Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:31 AM.


#78

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:55 AM

I want to try and like Megan - I liked s4 Megan - but if she's just going to be presented as some sort of angelic alternative to Betty (who was apparently the cause of all Don's woes) then they diminish the character, imo. It just wanders into Mary-Sue territory.

Perhaps the staffers in these interviews are laying it on a bit thick, and I can see why that would happen since the default position is Don the Adulterer, but on the show itself we have seen Megan's flaws: stubbornness over Don's party, playing sick knowing that Don would follow her in order to play punishing dominatrix, making a dig towards Betty and escalating the arguments that they had at HJ's and in the apartment.

Megan may be Don's Mary-Sue, as best represented by his idiotic comment to Pete in the cab about how he would not have been such a dog had he met Megan first, but I don't know if the audience is suppose to believe him, and they are certainly not to believe that his issues began and ended with Betty.

Exploring that, and whether they can actually build a marriage, might be interesting. At the moment, it's just vaguely irritating.

But that would likely mean giving even more air time to the Don-Megan relationship and do you really want that to happen?

#79

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 10:35 AM

Huh. I saw the episode completely differently from these two. Like so many on this thread, I don't see Don's feelings for Megan as actually being one of love-- at least of the companionate and compassionate variety-- at all. I certainly believe he wants to possess her to the point where her veering in the least off-script as being something that can set him off horribly, even violently. But I can't see this true love the writers insist on-- and I don't even see that much attachment from Megan either. She seems more... playing along with Don, while not quite understanding just how deep his dysfunction goes just yet.


Yes, I don't know what the writers actually mean by these things so I can't say whether it will turn out I agree with them or not, but when they said they were showing "how deep" the feelings went I couldn't help but think...not very? Just because I have a hard time not seeing these two as awkward with each other. I don't see a big chemistry, they don't seem like they have anything that would make the marriage last, only because when I watch their scenes together *I* feel so tired. It makes me think of how Roger said to Jane that it was such a relief to admit they didn't really like each other and just call it quits. That's what it seems like with Don and Megan. Maybe Don does have some huge love for the girl for being so "young and vivacious" and different than Betty, but there's nothing enjoyable to me in watching them hang out together.

For instance, Pete and Trudy went through their own difficulties in learning to work together, but they also have certain weird things about them that I can see clicking. Like when they did their Charleston--I have no problem imagining these two blocking out hours to choreograph and rehearse that dance and have a good time doing it because they were both really invested.

With Don and Megan it's like they just seem to swing between shallow heavy flirting about how square he is and how much in love they are and negotiations about all the ways their pasts and personalities create problems so they need to talk about their relationship some more. And we've also got the parallel big productions that don't go over at the party and HoJo's. So all these negotiations--like every time Megan gets Don to do something he isn't automatically interested in or stands up for herself it's a triumph for Megan and shows how uniquely great they are, when to me it just reminds me of how I'd rather be married to somebody I hung out with more naturally. These two seem to need naughty housemaid routines and chases around the apartment just to get through Thursday.

#80

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 11:25 AM

For instance, Pete and Trudy went through their own difficulties in learning to work together, but they also have certain weird things about them that I can see clicking. Like when they did their Charleston--I have no problem imagining these two blocking out hours to choreograph and rehearse that dance and have a good time doing it because they were both really invested.

But the Charleston did not happen until season three, and before that there were adulterous hook ups, wife-pimping and strife over apartments, adoptions and doing business with Trudy's father - and somewhere in there a roast chicken got thrown out the window.

With Don and Megan it's like they just seem to swing between shallow heavy flirting about how square he is and how much in love they are and negotiations about all the ways their pasts and personalities create problems so they need to talk about their relationship some more. And we've also got the parallel big productions that don't go over at the party and HoJo's. So all these negotiations--like every time Megan gets Don to do something he isn't automatically interested in or stands up for herself it's a triumph for Megan and shows how uniquely great they are, when to me it just reminds me of how I'd rather be married to somebody I hung out with more naturally. These two seem to need naughty housemaid routines and chases around the apartment just to get through Thursday.

I agree with this but I think that the alternative is Don straight jacketed in a padded room getting shock treatments. Now I am not going to hold my breath here, but between Megan making the "diminishes us" comment and Don getting called out by Bert, perhaps this is the end, or at least a back-burnering, of The Don-Megan Relationship Saga. Do we know if this season is also thirteen episodes, if so, we are a little short of the halfway point, and it seems like there will be stuff going on with Pete, Joan, Betty and Lane, and if that does not materialize to a significant degree, IMO that is more about the limitations of Matthew Weiner and his staff's storytelling ability and / or pandering for ratings, which still links back to Weiner because it represents him doing what needs to be done to get the biggest paycheck.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:28 PM.


#81

Sister Magpie

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:06 PM

But the Charleston did not happen until season three, and before that there were adulterous hook ups, wife-pimping and strife over apartments, adoptions and doing business with Trudy's father - and somewhere in there a roast chicken got thrown out the window.


Right, but my point wasn't that the two of them didn't go through their own blow ups or that Pete wasn't at times acting like an animal in a trap who thought he had to chew his own leg off to get out. It's that Pete and Trudy, even before that, were people who seemed like they could hang out together while Megan and Don are tiresome for me to watch even when they're getting along. Maybe I can't really explain what I'm talking about it and maybe some of it comes from Pete and Trudy at least coming from similar backgrounds so there's some similarity there. (Maybe it's even that similar affected way of speaking.) It just seemed more reality based. I'm just aware of a feeling of relief when Don's talking to almost anybody besides Megan because it seems less of a strain. Early on Pete was definitely feeling pushed into a living situation that freaked him out, but that was easier for me than watching a marriage that's supposed to be a match made in heaven that doesn't look that way to me.

Edited by Sister Magpie, Apr 28, 2012 @ 12:12 PM.


#82

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 3:41 PM

When Don proposed to Megan my reaction was similar to Joan and Peggy's but seeing them together this season has really sucked me into their web. I like them. The marriage was totally impulsive and reckless but seeing them together I think they do have a surprising compatibility.


I like them also and I agree. They at least seem to have good physical chemistry,so there's that, but I do like that she calls him on his crap. And Ido think he wants this to work. He just can't be lazy and slip into old bad habits, as he is close to doing, or it surely won't.

Edited by newyawk, Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:14 PM.


#83

Paxton

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 9:53 PM

Their marriage is playing out much like I hoped it would. The main thing to me is that I wanted to see something different from Don, being tired of his zipper dropping for every available or unavailable female. I think we've set some sort of record with him going six full episodes (or is it seven? I don't remember if he was still sleeping with Faye as of "Tomorrowland") having sex with only one woman, and his own wife at that. I've liked Don's paranoia about her--worrying about her with young people, both at the party and when the waitress said she left with some young men, and his fishing comment about how there has to be some advantage to being his wife, to which she failed to respond (when he was clearly hoping for, "oh, Don, being your wife is the BEST!"). I think Megan loves him, but he's more invested in her than she him, so I expect her to get tired(er) of having to always reassure him. I like their chemistry and I enjoy their relationship, so I would be fine with them figuring out how to make it work, but given the nature of "Mad Men" I'm not holding my breath. I loved Don and Rachel and look where that got me, nowhere. Lesson learned.

Incidentally, I thought it was funny that Jon Hamm was talking in the Inside video on the AMC site about how it was going to be a weekend away from the kids . . . we've barely seen them with the kids. We've only seen them together in the first episode.

#84

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 12:05 AM

I intensely dislike Don and Megan as a couple. I don't know her true motive for marrying him, but I don't see love. I'll buy the argument that Don wanted new, young, and accepting. He's definitely in lust with her, but he doesn't know her--or even seem to want to know her. So, again, no love--just want and a pathetic "need."

#85

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:24 AM

Many things bother me about Don and Megan's relationship, but I think the biggest issue, for me, is how the writers want us to agree that it's perfectly natural and acceptable that Don married Megan for her youth, beauty, and vivacity. Need I remind everyone that he married Betty (who's also younger than he is, don't forget) for pretty much the same reasons? "Beautiful and happy", that's how he described her to Anna.

Now, it's fine and good to be attracted to someone for being young, beautiful, and happy... but it's not love. No, it is not. Youth and beauty fade, and even the happiest people have bad days sometimes.

Love is when you continue to accept and cherish that person, even when they're ugly and miserable. Love is when you don't mind seeing your significant other look less than perfect. Love has its ups and downs, but comes out all right in the end. My parents have been married for nearly 37 years. Lord knows their relationship isn't perfect, but it's good and solid, because they married each other for deeper reasons than mere physical attraction and amusement. They're in it for the long haul. I'm not sure how Betty feels about Henry, but I truly believe Henry loves Betty. He forgave her ugly behavior from last season, and he genuinely doesn't mind that she's gained weight. That is love. Can you picture Don being so gallant?

Don believes he loves Megan, but do you really, truly think he'll feel so strongly when her looks start to fade, her figure isn't what it used to be, she gets settled and predictable, and some young, cute thing starts making eyes at him? Hell, I think Don would pull an Edward Rochester on Megan if she had the unmitigated gall to, say, have a raging case of PMS.

If Megan has even one functioning brain cell, she'll get out of this marriage and never look back.

#86

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:00 AM

I don't think that the office (or town) would gossip disparagingly about Don, especially not in the short term - Megan is not that foolish of a choice, she is younger but not Sinatra-Farrow or Grant-Cannon younger and she was not a dance hall girl. Usually the woman takes brunt of the heat and if Don is looped into the gossip, then people tend to be more circumspect.


If she had stopped working, I'm sure the gossip would have died down. But she's still working there in a higher level position. I don't think the age would be a target for gossip. The fact that he's pulling into his office all the time with the door closed? would be. The fact that she got a promotion into a position right after becoming engaged/married? would be? The fact that they come in late and leave early? would be. People resent that stuff. Even without party and song performance--the coworkers would be gossiping about it.

What we call flextime is a relatively recent and modern concept and not the norm back then. Back then? They're slacking off. Also it's not even flextime. They're not coming in late and staying later; they're coming in late and leaving early. The staff who are expected to work well into the night and on weekends start getting pissed off real fast.

#87

Dev F

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:38 AM

Love is when you continue to accept and cherish that person, even when they're ugly and miserable. Love is when you don't mind seeing your significant other look less than perfect.

Don's current fantasy isn't about perfection, though. I think there's a reason why the series has emphasized the fact that Megan is a failed actress with weird teeth -- to contrast her with Betty, the successful model whom everyone thinks looks like Grace Kelly. Don's fantasy ideal of Betty was her walking down the stairs of a fancy hotel in a glamorous dress on Valentine's Day; his fantasy for Megan is taking her on a road trip to Howard Johnson's to eat orange sherbet.

In other words, it's a fantasy of normalcy and easy charm, not glamor and the high life. And while there are many things Megan could do to screw up that sort of fantasy, I don't think getting old and less beautiful is one of them. I doubt that Don would really care.

Edited by Dev F, Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:42 AM.


#88

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:46 AM

Is Megan beautiful? To my eyes she is on the attractive end of the spectrum, but she is nowhere close to Betty or Jane. I think that her body type is in vogue for the times, but given that Don is from a previous generation, I don't know if she would be va-va-va-voom in his book. And then there are... the teeth.

ETA:

If she had stopped working, I'm sure the gossip would have died down. But she's still working there in a higher level position. I don't think the age would be a target for gossip. The fact that he's pulling into his office all the time with the door closed? would be. The fact that she got a promotion into a position right after becoming engaged/married? would be? The fact that they come in late and leave early? would be. People resent that stuff. Even without party and song performance--the coworkers would be gossiping about it.

What we call flextime is a relatively recent and modern concept and not the norm back then. Back then? They're slacking off. Also it's not even flextime. They're not coming in late and staying later; they're coming in late and leaving early. The staff who are expected to work well into the night and on weekends start getting pissed off real fast

The overall point I was making is that Megan would be the object of discussion more than Don, and most of the stuff that you itemized bear that out. I don't rhink that the ongoing talk of the town a few months after Don marries Megan is that SCDP is going down the tubes because the great Don Draper is being whipped by his young wife.

Edited by Tafatia, Apr 29, 2012 @ 8:28 AM.


#89

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 9:36 AM

Don's current fantasy isn't about perfection, though. I think there's a reason why the series has emphasized the fact that Megan is a failed actress with weird teeth -- to contrast her with Betty, the successful model whom everyone thinks looks like Grace Kelly.


I'm very wary of making that distinction between Megan and Betty because it so seems like splitting hairs to me. I don't know how glamorous Don's fantasies of Betty were--when we met them she was still pretty but they weren't living a glamorous life and he thought she was a great mother. But there's no way I can accept Megan as a step down in beauty, as if this time Don's chosen in a less shallow way, just because Megan has distinctive teeth and possibly can't act all that well. She's just as much of a dream girl as Betty. As someone else said somewhere, Megan and Betty *both* look like they stepped off the cover of a magazine. Don's just buying more current issues now--Megan's Euro-chic. She dresses to the nines and put on a whole show celebrating just how well she fits current beauty standards. She was established as the prettiest girl at SCDP last season.

If Megan had been played by the same actress who played Alison I don't know if they'd have even been able to play off Don's impulsive decision to marry her. Megan also was supposed to make him feel like a new man, a man who didn't have the sad, ugly history of Dick Whitman. That's a pretty big fantasy--one he probably didn't need when he married Betty because he wasn't as guilty.

I can't help but feel like he really is in some ways making the same mistake as Roger, marrying someone so different from him in ways he wishes he was (young) thinking that she'll make him feel more like that when it's more likely to remind him how much he isn't like that.

#90

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 4:39 PM

Many things bother me about Don and Megan's relationship, but I think the biggest issue, for me, is how the writers want us to agree that it's perfectly natural and acceptable that Don married Megan for her youth, beauty, and vivacity.

I don't think the writers are trying to portray their relationship as good or healthy or acceptable. Even the quote about love-- love is not always healthy and love is definitely not all it takes to keep a relationship going. I completely agree with you that this relationship is terrible and especially dangerous for Megan, but I do not take the fact that they love (or think they love) each other to mean that we are supposed to believe this is a good relationship or even a relationship we are supposed to root for.