300 replies to this topic

[TWoP Tennison]

Mr. Gold is determined to know August's true identity; Emma wants answers from Regina about Kathryn's disappearance; and David tries to reconcile with Mary Margaret.

Mod Note:

Please remember to keep the discussion on topic so that your fellow posters have an easier time following and joining the discussion. Also, spell things out. One example: It's not "FTL," but Fairytale Land, or Fairy Tale Land, or something recognizable like that.

Edited by TWoP Tennison, Apr 29, 2012 @ 2:42 PM.

[mustbekarma]

Since the locked thread remains locked, I'll start a thread.

I loved this episode! I felt so sorry for Mr. Gold; everything he's done is to try and get his son back. I can try that motivation. I really believe he can be saved. He has Baelfire and Belle to ground him.

I get why Mr. Gold hates fairies.

[djsunyc]

This show is really starting to cook. The storylines are on point and they are delivering some solid stuff. Great episodes. Things are making sense.

August has got to be Pinocchio...

[prodigalchicken]

So, this pretty much seals the deal that August is Pinnochio, right? They had me going for just a second, but even then, I was pretty sure August was pulling the Pinnochio lying deal with Gold. Why is he dying? Does that relate back to Fairy Tale World because I don't remember Pinnochio being ill. . .unless he's now turning back to wood or something.

[Corydora]

I had a feeling we were being led down a fake trail but some questions were answered at least. I feel sorry for Rumple.

[djsunyc]

First of all, mustbekarma is GANGSTA for starting this thread :)

I'm intrigued to see how they explain the Pinocchio/August thing - but so far they have done a good job relating everything together.

Regina...my goodness woman...you are pure evil...but still so damn hot!!!

[jessied112]

Ack, this was such a frustrating and emotional episode for me. I kept trying to keep my hopes and expectations low, but my emotions were like a rollercoaster. I've never been so obviously emotional that my mom even noted how emotional I was getting.

Damnit, I was so hoping August would be Bae, one of the reasons being that he wouldn't be Pinocchio. Oh well. Time to prepare myself for that.

Did anything else actually happen in this episode besides August and Gold? Oh, Henry teamed up with August, which was actually pretty awesome. Some more emotional crap from mary Margaret and David and Archie came back. Oh yeah, Emma wanting her son back and not falling for Sidney's awful act. Finally, Ems, you grow a brain!

[xqueenfrostine]

Oh that was awesome. I wasn't one of the ones who had been convinced that Auguest was Balefire, but I still accepted the idea easily once the episode started fostering the idea through the Fairytale flashbacks and Gold's scene with Mother Superior. I never saw the fakeout coming. Well done.

I also loved Emma's line about Rumple working "diagonally." He clearly was and is, as this episode finally give us the answer as to why Rumple created the curse. I'm assuming his motivation for wanting Emma to break the curse is so that he can leave Storybrooke to find his son?

And hooray for Emma standing up to Regina!

[Scrapper]

I agree August is Pinnochio no magic means no Pinnochio. So Rumple pulled an intensely long con using the Regina family to finally check mate. lol Glad we are getting some answers and Emma is doing something! Liking her hair much more mostly straightened. It flatters her face.

Poor Bae. I think everyone who has a lot of magic remembers. So, Regina, Rumple, Blue Fairy, and maybe some of the other top witches.

Edited by Scrapper, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:18 PM.

[KCJenna]

Poor Gold, I think Booth felt bad for doing that, but he had a mission. So the Blue Fairy must have her memories too. And Mr. Gold is dangerous, even without magic.

[oldandnewfirm]

Edit: Lost most of my post when the other thread got deleted. Let me add it back in, in summation.

1. Rumplestiltskin was a dick, no denying that. But I wonder how much of that was the curse and how much was just him relishing in having power for the first time in his life and abusing it as a result.

2. August is a terrible person. Using the hope of seeing Bae again against Gold? That's a Regina level low-blow.

3. One thing that did surprise me was Blue's innocence. I suspected she was going to have an ulterior motive for helping Bae, but nope. If you overlook her little scene in Dreamy, she does seem to be good and helpful overall. Interesting. And possibly misleading. I wonder what August asked her Mother Superior counterpart? And if the Blue Fairy is the most powerful being in the world, I wonder if she too remembers the curse...

Edited by oldandnewfirm, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:19 PM.

[Blue Plastic]

Way to make your kid popular with the townsfolk, Rumpel!

I realized I was leaning forward during the scene with Regina confronting Mr. Gold. Those two actors have great antagonistic chemistry and ability to make me believe the story.

Everything about the fairies is so annoying to me. The jellyfish dresses, the giant magic Jelly Belly beans.

So, now we know why Rumpel wrote the curse. And the reason he hates fairies. I am shocked about August but don't get why he's dying. He looked ridiculous shaking his leg in that bed. I guess he has the dread Deadly Leg Cramp disease. Many posters have said all along that August must be Pinocchio - I must be super dimwitted because I didn't see it and still don't. Maybe because I don't want to. I guess it would make Gepetto happy if he could be reunited with Pinocchio...but I just don't care.

[djsunyc]

Is the Blue Fairy playing a long con herself?

[Kitten Poker Cheater]

Ah, phooey. I didn't want August to be Pinnochio. In the folks tales I read as a child, Pinnochio was a brat multiplied by a million.

But I loved the work of the actors, and I thought the episode was very well written- congrats to whomever wrote it.

Rumpy/Mr. Gold broke my heart with his plea to his "son." Wow. Felt myself getting a little choked up.

I hope we learn what happened to Baelfire, or that the character shows up as an adult. And that someone take a fly swatter and gets the blue fairy. I'm beginning to think she might be more manipulative than Regina.

[Tzigone]

Okay, so Rumpel has set this all up, done this all, in his son's name. Done exactly what Bae did not want him to do. Killed, kidnapped, destroyed a world, all in pursuit of his son. He hasn't learned anything - he hasn't understood that the problem wasn't letting Bae go, it was not going with him. Bae wanted him to be what he was, to not hurt and kill innocent people. But Rumpel still does so, in pursuit of his goals. Still because of Bae, which is exactly what Bae didn't want. It is also still a selfish act - it's about getting back what he wants, not keeping the Dark One curse from being passed on.

Major kudos for Emma. Firstly, for totally calling Gold's involvement and saying he was working diagonally and flat-out saying that not being on Regina's side is not the same as being good. Also awesome for calling Regina a sociopath - some of us have been saying that for months.

Loved the Blue Fairy. She was totally in the right and Rumpel twisted things to make her the bad guy, when what she did was give him the best chance, the best opportunity to break this spell and not trap anyone else. And he didn't take it. And she gave Bae the last magic bean they had. The sheer magnitude of the gift cannot be discounted. I certainly believe her when she says that she couldn't just undo the curse. Also, to note, it's not wholly a gift to Bae and Rumpel, but also to the world. And then he attacked her and she didn't even fight back. She was totally he drove Bae away, too. She was just so awesome in this episode - much better than in "Dreamy."

I really, really, really don't want August to be Pinocchio. He doesn't look like him (hair dye) and he's dying and he hasn't talked to Marco and I still find it a cheat since only one person should be able to be sent and we already have one set of parents who didn't get to raise their kid.

The Sidney-fall-guy bit was both tragic and awesome.

Biggest disappointment: so little Kathryn. I wanted the details about her being back and questioning and issues, and we got two little scenes. And didn't get to see the Gym teacher, either.

Edited by Tzigone, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:21 PM.

[mustbekarma]

I had a feeling we were being led down a fake trail but some questions were answered at least.

I held my breath for a few seconds waiting for paranoid Mr. Gold to run August through and it really was Baelfire. I know; this show wouldn't get that dark, I think. I've watched too much gloom and despair sci fi television, so that tends to color my perceptions, sometimes.

I was never so relieved for a character not to be who I wanted him to be, if that makes any sense.

I swear, the power that curses have over people is scary. Rumpelstiltskin digging in the dirty crying for Bae really got to me. In that moment, I think he would have jumped after Bae. Those curses are so terrible. If it could make a father give up his son, I can see how it tears apart people in the "real" world.

I will never tire of the scene with Mr. Gold verbally bitch slapping Regina. Define tragic, lady.

[MisterGlass]

Agreed, poor Gold. This managed to fill in the backstory in a way that made sense for all characters, and I was very impressed. The idea that Rumple would sacrifice an entire world to reach his son is touching and terrible.

Pinnochio it is, I think, but if he is an adult here, does that mean he crossed over with Emma? It does seem likely that the Blue Fairy knows, if she is using him as, well, a puppet. That makes five, assuming Jefferson lives.

[Senna]

Rumpel/Mr. Gold was so, so good this episode. His heartbreaking "reunion" scene almost made me forget he killed two innocent people earlier in the episode. (Well, he's still my favorite anyway.)

If August needs magic to survive, how has he lasted the last 28 years? (Assuming he was in our world the whole time ... which may not be the case of course.)

It was nice to see Emma wising up a little (finally!). I just about cheered when she called Regina a sociopath to her face.

Despite the Blue Fairy's apparently ulterior motive-free magic this episode, I still don't like or trust her.

[stopeslite]

Oh my goodness, this was so good. I had been starting to tire of the lack of getting the darned story going, but this was right back on form. And I love Gold and his faults even more.

So he actually gave Regina that curse so he could get his son back, and get to the world his son always wanted him to be in. That's almost cute, really.

I'll be annoyed if Bale turns out to be Pinnochio, but whatever. Shouldn't Dr. Whale recognize him somehow, then, if they ever see each other? I don't understand what kind of illness could require magic to heal, yet still be affecting him in the real world. Unless things that are incurable here are curable by magic no matter what they are. Are they maybe trying something like turning into wood in fairy tale land translates as Parkinson's or the like?

Interesting that the Blue Fairy turns out to be the oldest and most powerful being. But I don't think she was trying to help Bale so much as get rid of the Dark One.

Edited by stopeslite, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:24 PM.

[Gin and Tonic]

I loved August teaming up with Henry. That kid desperately needs someone to believe in him, even if August was kinda acting like Honest John.

Not sure that I want Rumpelstiltskin to have a happy ending. He's always been devious and has killed people before, but walking out of the mute maid's hut with her blood on his shoes? With his son a stone's throw away? Geeze.

Loved all the meta jokes. Archie asking how old Bae was and Gold wanting to start with something easier? Hilarious. As was August asking if he even looked like Bae. You don't darling, but you don't look like the kid playing Pinocchio either, so ...

Raphael Sbarge has a wonderful, dry comic delivery. No, Archie, children killing their parents isn't a normal expression of parent/child conflict.

In the shallow end of the pool, I loved the shirt August was wearing when he woke up. It's nice to see him in something other than his leather jacket and it was a really pretty blue.

ETA: There were two things I didn't like. Archie and August were both at Mary Margret's party. If August is Pinocchio, did he not recognize Jiminy in human form? Was he just playing it ridiculously cool? I loathe it when shows try to preserve surprise at the expense of logic.

The second thing: Gold finds out there's another person from Fairy Tale Land and he doesn't try to find out who the hell this person is? Are we to assume Gold figured it out? He's all about the importance of names and pointed it out in this episode!

Edited by Gin and Tonic, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:33 PM.

[kariyaki]

Wow, it seems a lot of people remember. Rumple, Regina, Mad Hatter, and now it looks like the Blue Fairy remembers too.

Rumple probably had to bide his time finding someone to enact the curse for him. Someone who had something they loved to sacrifice and was crazy and desperate enough to do it. Enter Regina.

[marysue22]

I can't respect or root for Emma wanting to get custody of Henry when it's about wanting to take away something Regina loves, Regina is the evil queen, but I still think some part of her harbors love for Henry.

She gave him up for adoption and that should be that, Regina hasn't actively tried to harm Henry, she named him after her beloved father.

Edited by marysue22, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:32 PM.

[Chicken Wing]

I have to admit that my heart tightened a bit when Rumpelstiltskin was frantically clawing at the dirt, crying "I want to go with you, Bae! I want to go with you!" It almost made up for the fact that Bae went into the portal because his dear Papa let go.

[Miss Muffet]

I still don't think he is Pinocchio. Let's be real here, August felt a little misunderstood when Gold said he couldn't be Baelfire. He instinctively thought that Gold could relate to him. He seemed puzzled, what does that say about his possible character. He is desperate to regain magic for his world and is obviously from the Enchanted lands. We are missing something here! Being mislead just as Gold was. He knows the stories, he knows the consequences, he wants a happy ending!
Baelfire got a magic bean from the Blue Fairy, tried to save his Papa, got good advice from Morraine, and slipped out of that world alone. He obviously was not going to give up, his Dad was what mattered in his life.
Sydney is such a pussy! He is so evilwitchywhipped!! He does it soo well!
I Love Gold’s vulnerability! Made me cry, for him and Bae…;(

[mustbekarma]

Rumple probably had to bide his time finding someone to enact the curse for him. Someone who had something they loved to sacrifice and was crazy and desperate enough to do it. Enter Regina.

Well, the Blue Fairy did say Rumpelstiltskin didn't have enough power to even create the curse, let alone enact it, hence his bottling true love from Snow and Charming, and all his other actions. That man can play a long con. Also, wasn't this the "curse to end all curses" in literally those words? Gold's diagonal play is really ambitious, then. He gets his son back, ends his own curse, and gives everyone their happy endings back, plus some major payback to Regina for Belle. No wonder he turned down Belle's love; his love for even a slight chance to get his son back trumped that. He really wasn't a coward after all.

Edited by mustbekarma, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:35 PM.

[suparshadow]

I must have missed something — why do we think the Blue Fairy has her Fairytale Land memories in Storybrooke?

[Tzigone]

Not sure that I want Rumpelstiltskin to have a happy ending.

I feel the same way. I don't know if you read/remember, but I said that second chances are okay, but I'm not big on thirds. He had his first chance to go with Bae. He had his second with Belle. He rejected both. I don't like unending chances in my fiction; it's not satisfying. Because it's leave a "well, it's okay, he can change later" type vibe: it trivializes the all the earlier (wrong) choices.

More importantly, he hasn't learned what was wrong in what he did: he's still doing it. Harming innocents in pursuit of what he wants. He's shown no remorse at all for the innocents he hurt and killed - only for what it cost him. There are only two ways for a character like that to be redeemed. The first is Darth Vader's - one big action and he dies. The other is the harder to work path - we have to see him work for it. To change his ways, to not use, manipulate and harm others. Consistently to help, even at a cost to himself. At least two seasons worth for me to buy it. Cosmic balance sort of thing.

Raphael Sbarge has a wonderful, dry comic delivery. No, Archie, children killing their parents isn't a normal expression of parent/child conflict.

Okay, that was funny. I loved that line.

As was August asking if he even looked like Bae. You don't darling, but you don't look like the kid playing Pinocchio either, so ...

I agree: I've always wanted him to be his own person instead of a previously introduced character.

He gets his son back, ends his own curse, and gives everyone their happy endings back, plus some major payback to Regina for Belle.

The happy endings he stole. Not to mention all the people has wronged and killed in the interim. This curse is in no way a selfless, noble or generous act. It is act of utmost selfishness - all these centuries of all these harms that he did to all these people - all so that he can get what he wants. That what he wants is to reunited with his son does not make it okay.

Edited by Tzigone, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:36 PM.

[Blue Plastic]

I really, really, really don't want August to be Pinocchio. He doesn't look like him (hair dye) and he's dying and he hasn't talked to Marco and I still find it a cheat since only one person should be able to be sent and we already have one set of parents who didn't get to raise their kid.

All I can figure is that he is made from the wood of the tree that sheltered Emma during the curse's enactment. But still, why would he have a human form and then slowly die? Why wouldn't he just be a wooden doll in Mr. Gold's shop?

[stopeslite]

No wonder he turned down Belle's love; his love for even a slight change to get his son back trumped that.

Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. Now it's all even so much more sad.

[MisterGlass]

Loved all the meta jokes. Archie asking how old Bae was and Gold wanting to start with something easier? Hilarious.

Agreed, that was quite fun.

Rumple probably had to bide his time finding someone to enact the curse for him. Someone who had something they loved to sacrifice and was crazy and desperate enough to do it. Enter Regina.

Could that be why Rumple started switching children and playing with fate? To get the right combination of people to inact the curse while arranging for people who would want to break it? Bae's loss and the time to reflect on it has changed Rumple. He has really embraced the idea of being without power in this universe, and does not act as though he is afraid, as he was before the powers. In fact he manages to be intimidating without them, limp and all.

I also have to wonder about the Blue Fairy. It is clear in the last flashback that when the curse comes to pass, she knows who is responsible. Why no mention of that at the conference in the first episode, when they were trying to figure out what to do?

Edited by MisterGlass, Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:38 PM.