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Titanic (2012 Miniseries)


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#31

BooksRule

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:54 PM

I think that an 'After Titanic' miniseries would be great! There were so many interesting stories that could be told, such as how the Allison family relatives had to deal with the fact that only the nanny and baby Trevor survived (and there was a story years later about a young woman who came forward and claimed to be Lorraine Allison, the little girl who died with her parents. It turned out to be a hoax, but that could take up an entire hour at least). And what about the nanny, Alice Cleaver? What about the young man, Jack Thayer? He was one of the few survivors who insisted that the ship broke in two--most others contradicted him. Violet Jessup? Bruce Ismay, who was considered to be a coward for surviving, would make a good story.

Back on the topic of this particular miniseries: I was not rooting for the snobbish Irish woman (but I did like her hen-pecked husband), the 1st class woman who looked down on the Irish couple, or anyone who was rude to the actress (Dorothy Gibson) or Guggenheim's mistress (Madame Aubert). Although both of them seemed to take the veiled (or obvious) insults in stride.

#32

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 7:07 PM

I did think that people who were in the water died almost immediately so anyone at all being rescued after some unknown time in the freezing water was fairly implausible for me.


The series showed Lifeboat 14 going back and rescuing three men from the water, one of whom died. That's pretty true to reality, as No. 14 was the only one to go back (after the existing passengers had been transferred to other lifeboats) and did rescue four men from the water, one of whom died in the boat.

#33

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 7:27 PM

Yeah Lord Manton surviving was just strange. I love me some Linus Roach but come on! At least he could have been on the overturned boat or a debris raft. I believe there was a First Class man pulled out of the water but he died within minutes if I remember the book (A Night to Remember) clearly.

A look at the aftermath would be interesting. The Carpathia took days to get to New York, which must have been agonizing. A point of view of the Carpathia crew could be interesting too.

The problem with the fictional accounts is that the the true stories are just so much more compelling. Even where embellished there is something about knowing these people were real. You can actually read the transcripts from the inquiries that were held afterwards. It's fascinating to see the clear prejudicies and influences that were likely at play at all levels. Class and power in 1912.

Officer Lowe was seriously a piece of work! (in both great and not so great ways) He ran away from home to go to sea at age 14 and it shows. I don't think he was too fond of the Senators questioning him. Paraphrased (I love this):

Senator: Do you know what the iceberg was made of?

Lowe: Ice I would expect Sir.

#34

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 7:39 PM

I was totally baffled, both with the jewelry box and her being locked in a cabin.


She had some story about how she was poor, was going to sell the broach in NY. The Lady wouldn't miss it because she never wears it and when she did realize she was missing it they'd investigate the guy in 3rd class. The valet to the Earl convinced her not to do it (and then proceeded to leave her his money when he died).

She was locked in the cabin because she went back for her book-- it was a book that her father had given her and one that she'd cherished. The valet had it all along but in looking for it, the White Star people were locking up the cabins and she got locked in. The White Star people stupidly thought the boat would stay upright and wanted to protect the belongings of the wealthy so they were locking up the rooms.

As an aside, I was so damn sad that Paolo kicked it. Especially since Mario (I think) lived. After everything Paolo went through to save the Italians, save Annie, he deserved to at least live. Made me so sad that all the good people died and all the annoying, despicable people lived.

I hated the snippets. Nothing made sense. I'd rather this have been drawn out for 12 episodes where we could've learned more about the characters' motivations. The Irish wife was the most confusing of all. She seemed to know the weird guy from steerage. Also was weird guy a murderer? *confused*

#35

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:09 PM

I did think that people who were in the water died almost immediately so anyone at all being rescued after some unknown time in the freezing water was fairly implausible for me.


There were a handful - 4 to 6 depending on the source - pulled from the water alive, but yes, most did die of exposure. /titanic_geek

There were a number of small details the production did get right and do well - Lowe's moving his passengers to other boats to make room for survivors, for example (unfortunately, one of the reasons there were so few people picked up alive was because he took so much time to get organized and row back), the First Class passenger taking a dog in the lifeboat, the private restaurant.

I think that an 'After Titanic' miniseries would be great


I agree!

#36

snowflakey

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 5:24 AM

The problem with the fictional accounts is that the the true stories are just so much more compelling. Even where embellished there is something about knowing these people were real. You can actually read the transcripts from the inquiries that were held afterwards. It's fascinating to see the clear prejudicies and influences that were likely at play at all levels. Class and power in 1912.



I agree, while creating fictional characters can expand artistic license, they could have created a compelling story from actual accounts.

Thanks for the link, that will keep me busy for days.

I too wanted to see the snobby lady (Georginia's mother, the one that hated Muriel) die. I actually liked Muriel and kind of understood her bitchiness with the class system.

I don't think the story of the Irish lady and the Russian murderer was ever truly explained. I'm hoping that there was a deleted scene of their backstory, like she had an affair with him or was connected with his "anarchist" rebel group. I would hate it if she never met him before and she got all weak in the knees and overcome with the vapors at the mere sight of him.

#37

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:56 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by that! And why did he just happen to be wandering through the flooded corridors with a convenient wire suitable for lock-picking exactly when Paolo needed him?


He had the wire on him because the ladies' maid Watson had given it to him earlier when she was trying to frame him for the brooch she was planning to steal and sell. When the Russian was with Paulo outside the door, the Russian said it was given to him earlier "to pick a lock that didn't need picking." (on the jewellery box).

Did the Irish mom know that guy previously, or did she just get the hots for him after seeing him?


I think she just got the hots for him after seeing him. I can't entirely blame her - he was pretty hot, in a slightly brutish kind of way.

As a fun game, how many of the characters did we actually want to die? I'm not good with names, but I can at least list a few: Lady Manton, her maid, the 1st class lady who wasn't invited to the Italian restaurant and who was the biggest snob on board, and Muriel.


I'd agree with all of those. Muriel was right about a lot of things - the class system, Lady Manton's anti-Irish feelings, Lord Manton's hypocrisy - but she was such a shrewish bitch about everything that I wasn't sorry to see her go. I wish Lady Duff-Gordon and her husband had died too - the ones in the barely full lifeboat who refused to let it be rowed back, tried to bribe the crew members and were more worried about the loss of a nightdress than hundreds of people dying. Those two were real people and I still kind of wish they'd died, as they apparently really were that insensitive and horrible in reality.

Like others, I was sorry the lovely Paulo didn't live, as well as Lord Manton's valet (that ladies' maid didn't deserve him being so nice to her, as she was such a snobby bitch, especially towards the other servants on board), and Harry Widener.

Did the Italian crew members really get locked in a room like that? I know a lot of third-class passengers were stopped from going up on deck, but it seemed extra callous that crew members would have been purposely locked in a room like that and left there. Hopefully that plotline was a bit of artistic licence.

It's a shame some of the more interesting stories were left out, like the Titanic's chief baker, who rode the stern of the ship down as it sank and survived even after being in the water for hours with just swollen feet to show for it (you see him a little in the James Cameron film). I don't think they showed Archibald Gracie either, who wrote a book about the sinking soon afterwards.

#38

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:29 AM

Did the Italian crew members really get locked in a room like that? I know a lot of third-class passengers were stopped from going up on deck, but it seemed extra callous that crew members would have been purposely locked in a room like that and left there. Hopefully that plotline was a bit of artistic licence.


Those weren't actually crew members. They were the waiters from the ala carte restaurant (the one that all those first-class passengers had dinner in the night of the sinking). They were in a tough spot because they weren't considered passengers or crew, so they were kind of at loose ends during the sinking. As I recall, they all died that night (although the chef and assistant chef from the restaurant got in a lifeboat and lived). But locked in a closet? Yeah, I don't think so. That was just weird. They did show Bruce Ismay (I think it was Ismay) telling a crew member to shut them up or something when they were asking where they should go because they would upset the women. Or something like that. I'm pretty sure none of that ever happened. And why was Mario (Mario? Paolo's brother, anyway) locked in the closet just for saying that they should let the third class passengers through the gates? I never did get that.

#39

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:43 AM

It played in canada over the last month and I thought it was good but not great. I thought they could do with maybe 1/3 less characters, since for a miniseries it was hard to keep track of everyone. I mean the there was the young first class woman who was playing cards and flirting with the 1st officer, what was her deal. And the young guy in the last episode who wasn't allowed to go with his mother because he was too old to be considered a child. I had no idea who he was.

I too agree with others that seeing the aftermath would have been way more interesting. I mean I remember seeing a show or reading something one time about how men who survived the titanic were often seen as cowards for boarding lifeboats when so many women died. How did those guys deal with their lives, especially the ones who wore dresses.

Also one minor thing confused me. I noticed that all of the lifeboats were labelled the "SS Titanic" except everything I have ever read or seen on the Titanic, including an awesome travelling museum exibition that came to my home town and had actual artifacts called it the RMS Titanic. Was this just an error by the production design people?

#40

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:54 AM

It was alright but it might have worked better as a 90 minute special than four 1 hour long episodes. The repetition of scenes certainly didn't help matters.

#41

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 8:03 AM

I mean the there was the young first class woman who was playing cards and flirting with the 1st officer, what was her deal. And the young guy in the last episode who wasn't allowed to go with his mother because he was too old to be considered a child. I had no idea who he was.


Heh. Both of those were actually real people. The young woman was Dorothy Gibson, the well-known (at the time) movie actress. She was flirting with Charles Lightoller, the second officer -- which probably never happened. Lightoller really never seemed to be a flirtatious guy in everything I read. Lady Manton (not real) and some of the other first-class passengers looked down on her because she was an actress.

And the young guy was Jack Thayer. He was traveling with his parents; they were one of the richest families on the ship, I believe. He lived by jumping off the ship at the last minute and swimming to the lifeboat that landed upside down. His mother lived, too, but his father died.

But I absolutely agree with you that there was very little background or context for them or a lot of the other "real" passengers. For example, you had the Allisons running around looking for their baby. It seemed weird if you didn't know the story -- just this couple carrying a little girl going, "We can't find our baby!"

#42

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

It was alright but it might have worked better as a 90 minute special than four 1 hour long episodes. The repetition of scenes certainly didn't help matters.


I thought it would have worked better the other way. I thought they could have used another couple of episodes to really explain who all of these people are, or alternatively drop some of the less memorable background stories.

#43

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:22 PM

I wanted to like this a lot, but I'm not sure it succeeded. There were so many characters and backstory crammed into four hours-- I think there either needed to be fewer characters to focus on or a longer series because I felt just as I was finally beginning to know the characters, it was over! I feel like I need to rewatch this just because to get a better sense of what was going on. I felt like the whole thing came together in the last hour, though.

I have to admit, I was pretty confused when the first hour ended with the ship hitting the iceberg-- I too wondered how they were going to fill 3 more hours.

One of my favorite scenes was when Toby Jones' character was on deck as Titanic hit the iceberg. I found it terrifying and effective. I actually ended up finding Maria Doyle Kennedy's character sympathetic in the end, even though I thought she was a shrill harpy in the beginning of the series. I found her to be one of the characters whose motivation I most understand and her frustration and anger felt very real to me.

Did the Irish mom know that guy previously, or did she just get the hots for him after seeing him?

I think she just got the hots for him after seeing him. I can't entirely blame her - he was pretty hot, in a slightly brutish kind of way.


I was so confused about this whole plot line, including the fact that the tall/dark/handsome dude was also a terrorist. This particular plot was so out of left field and I felt like it never got fleshed out properly.

I agree that an 'After Titanic' series would be really interesting. Of course, the tragedy of the sinking is fascinating and horrifying, but seeing the aftermath would be equally fascinating.

I found the actually scenes of sinking quite effective-- just the darkness and screaming.

#44

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:43 PM

And why was Mario (Mario? Paolo's brother, anyway) locked in the closet just for saying that they should let the third class passengers through the gates? I never did get that.

Because he was also Italian.

#45

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:28 PM

Quote
And why was Mario (Mario? Paolo's brother, anyway) locked in the closet just for saying that they should let the third class passengers through the gates? I never did get that.

Because he was also Italian.


Were they locked in a closet or were they closing watertight doors? I totally missed this.

#46

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:42 PM

I agree that the darkness was really effective. As someone already pointed out, there was no moon, and once the ship's electricity went out it was hard to see. I recall in the Cameron film it still being very lit, even after the ship went down.

#47

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 8:30 AM

Locked in a room. There were more than 30 of them in reality.

ETA: Though I doubt they were locked in a room in reality. Since they all died there was no one to confirm/deny it. And if you were the one who did it, would you admit it?

Edited by Starchild, Apr 18, 2012 @ 8:32 AM.


#48

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 6:08 AM

Fellows seems to enjoy offing Kennedy (Muriel). That's kind of what I took away from this. Also that the maid who was going to marry Paolo had the most irksome-looking hairdo ever. How'd she get it so puffed? Wouldn't it have been annoying? As the maids in Downton (not Drownton, heh) all have their hair rather neatly done up and slicked back, seemed weird.

I think the compact showing made it simpler to keep track of the varying characters, but I still didn't get what I now know, thanks to the thread, to be the Allison's storyline. I was just confused as to what was going on there when they had a baby were looking for a baby couldn't find the nanny but we saw the nanny, etc.

I thought whatsername was just driven to unaccountable, lower-class lust by the sight of Peter the Painter, then wondered later if it was supposed to be some thing where they'd known each other, though I don't see how that'd make sense. Agree it totally eemed as if there was something cut out there - he went to the trouble to give us that thin sketch of the guy's previous issues and then never followed up or anything really, save his wry comments at the end. It was strange.

A post-Titanic thing would be way more fascinating than another shipboard retread, I also agree. Interesting Fellows didn't think to do it that way, given that's the impetus in Downton itself for so much. He could've had a whole class thing with who survived, how, what changed about them, the wills, etc., etc. I think one of the really rich dudes who were on the ship but killed had a wife who lost her inheritance by marrying again. Got to be lots of stuff like that, and who took care of which children and etc., etc.

Edited by beezer, Apr 19, 2012 @ 6:10 AM.


#49

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 5:32 PM

Regarding the maddening storyline of the Irish wife and Peter the Painter. The dialog most definitely led you to believe they had known each other previously but that's it! Is there anyone in the UK who saw it there and can tell us if there might be scenes ABC cut out because of the umpty zillion commercials? Of all that was going on, that storyline made me want to throw my shoe at the TV.

Overall, I was disappointed. There were things to like and much to dislike but it's still better than Cameron's movie. I loathe that elaborate load of crap.

#50

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 6:49 PM

A post-Titanic thing would be way more fascinating than another shipboard retread, I also agree.


Agree with all who mentioned this. I watched a poorly acted reenactment/documentary thingy the other weekend and it was SO fascinating. I would have loved to briefly see the sinking and then the follow up.

Is there anyone in the UK who saw it there and can tell us if there might be scenes ABC cut out because of the umpty zillion commercials?


I watched the Canadian airings on Global TV and noticed the issues, FWIW. I think it was poorly done overall as a series, from the writing/research/acting/editing...so I really think it was just a mistake inherent in the series itself.

#51

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:56 PM

I was just reading reviews of the miniseries on Amazon.com (where they are selling the DVD); a couple of reviewers said that they recorded the miniseries and then watched it w/o commercial interruptions, and found it more cohesive that way. (I was also amused by those who said this version was even worse than the Nazi propaganda version.)

I would give credit to the producer for trying something different, showing events from the perspectives of different characters, since the Titanic story has been told so many times already. However, the end result didn't come off very well. I would agree with those who thought there should have been either fewer storylines or more hours to the miniseries.

As a musician, I would be interested in seeing a drama that focused on the lives of the Titanic musicians -- including the backstory and what happened to their loved ones afterward. Like Wallace Hartley, the violinist and band leader, who had just become engaged and hated to leave his fiancee behind, but went ahead with the Titanic voyage due to the networking opportunities he thought it would provide. Another violinist, John "Jock" Hume, left behind a fiancee and unborn child. All of the musicians perished in the disaster, and the bodies of some of them were never found.

Back to the miniseries, I probably wouldn't buy the DVD, except perhaps if I could get it very cheaply. I would rather watch my DVD of "A Night to Remember" (the best Titanic drama, IMO) or Cameron's "Titanic".

#52

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Posted May 10, 2012 @ 1:07 AM

Wow, I've learned some interesting Titanic stories just from this thread's 4 pages.

About the show, I'll just say that I was pleasantly surprised to see Steven Waddington as Lightoller. He's looking just as handsome as he was in "Last of the Mohicans" 20 years ago, if not more so.

#53

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 12:49 PM

I was hoping this thread was about the Encore mini-series Titanic: Blood and Steel. Can someone direct me to that thread please?

#54

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Posted Nov 15, 2012 @ 10:54 PM

I saw this series on Netflix recently. Count me as one who got confused about the first episode, why the ship hit the iceberg so soon. But I was able to watch the whole series in one sitting, so it was easy to follow. I liked the little things, like how Guggenheim's mistress was shuned, or how some hoity-toity woman refused to get in the boat because the actress (or was it the mistress?) was in the boat and the thing with the rum or whisky (to keep people warm, not because the actress was a lush).

Come to think of it, there was some mention of the music-box pig, right? I saw a Titanic exhibit in August and read some Titanic books at the same time, so I'm not surprised I got confused. But I did like that in the exhibit there was a short hallway of stateroom doors; it looked exactly how it was dipicted in the series.

. I wish Lady Duff-Gordon and her husband had died too - the ones in the barely full lifeboat who refused to let it be rowed back, tried to bribe the crew members and were more worried about the loss of a nightdress than hundreds of people dying.

I remember reading in one Titanic book that Duff-Gordon was just talking to the Titanic crew members ( I think they were stokers) and the crew members said they won't get paid for the next days (3? how many days it would have taken the Titanic to get to NY) since the ship sank and they weren't working. Duff-Gordon told them he would cover their wages. So of course in the inquests it made him sound bad.

Of topic, I also read a book called "The Titanic conspiracy" by Gardiner, Robin. The conspiracy is that the Olympic was damaged before the Titanic set sail (for those who don't know, Olympic is the sister ship of Titanic). Since none of the goods in either ship has the ship's name on them (say, no linen or plates say "Olympic" or "Titanic", just "White Star"), it was easily to change some things (like skrew in new name plates on the "Olympic" to read "Titanic") so that it was really the Olympic setting sail, not the Titanic. And Capt. Smith was suppose to get in a situation where the ship he was sailing would be disabled in such a way that it would be a loss. It was a really screwy book.