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Girls: Voice of Her Generation


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#121

finneganrules

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 4:15 PM

I can't believe they copped out of Jessa having the abortion. Subversive, my eye.
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#122

ccridernyc

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:25 PM

Two parts amused me - the "who are the ladies? I'm not the ladies" and "throwing a good abortion". Having lived that life post-college with 3 or 4 room mates, this show brings me back in spite of myself.

I didn't think the writer's joke last week was horrible. This is a tiny slice of a story in Brooklyn, not Brooklyn's story.
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#123

AudyGal0516

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:12 PM

I didn't really like the first episode. And then I watched Tiny Furniture. I hated every character, especially Lena's. Am I supposed to hate these people? Are these based on real people, because they all suck. Grow up, get jobs and be an adult.

I kind of want to slap Lena Dunham. She's not funny and she does not write funny characters.
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#124

Irlandesa

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:19 PM

I liked this better than the pilot. I still didn't find it very funny but the conversations were more interesting, at least.

I can't believe they copped out of Jessa having the abortion. Subversive, my eye.


This! I couldn't see the point of choosing this way to end the 'pregnancy' story. Her not showing up and then being 'saved' by the late period or miscarriage or whatever just felt cliche.

Edited by Irlandesa, Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:19 PM.

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#125

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:32 AM

Yes, a character who doesn't want to have a baby having a convenient miscarriage is something I've seen before on TV, and it's not something I'd expect or want in 2012. It seemed as if the show was trying to have its cake and eat it too- being cavalier about the abortion itself, but not actually have the character go through with it.

I get what Girls is trying to do, in making the characters (Hannah) unlikable to some extent, but it's just not working for me. Unlike shows like It's Always Sunny in Philadephia, they're not the kind of unlikeable that makes me laugh, and I don't particularly relate to them either.
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#126

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 8:35 AM

The four lead actresses are all daughters of variously famous and rich people, which completely annoys me. It's like it's the Wilson Phillips reality show, only with nudity and boring sex.

Who are Jemima Kirke's (Jessa's) parents?

So I've watched both eps, and I don't know if I want to continue. My main problem is that I just don't like these characters. I don't think we're SUPPOSED to like them, but it's hard to spend time with them. I've been tuning in because of the buzz, but the show actually makes me feel dirty, almost literally, and not just because of the sex.

I actually kind of like Hannah's sex buddy when they're not having sex. I like his sense of humor, but during sex? Ugh. Again, I think it is intentional that many people are very different when they're having sex.

As far as the racial issue, I think it's overblown. This is the story of these four girlfriends. They seem to live a pretty insular world. Have we even seen more than just their very small world? We see them in their apartments. We've seen them in the abortion clinic, and I believe there were people of color there, including the doctor. We saw a glimpse of Marnie w/her boyfriend at the art gallery where she works. Hannah at the restaurant w/her parents. I didn't notice the background people, but I don't think the background extras count for those who are complaining about the lack of diversity. My point is that we just haven't seen these four characters going outside of their little circle. They live insular and self-involved lives.

Anyway, I may just give the show one more viewing, and if it doesn't really grab me, I'm out.
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#127

nicole8705

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 8:45 AM

Who are Jemima Kirke's (Jessa's) parents?


Her dad is Simon Kirke, drummer from a group called Bad Company and her mother is Lorraine Kirke, an interior designer.
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#128

braggtastic

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:50 AM

Her dad is Simon Kirke, drummer from a group called Bad Company and her mother is Lorraine Kirke, an interior designer.

Hardly household names, either of them. And are Dunham's parents well-known? I don't know them. It's really just both Mamet's parents & Williams' father who are well known.

If they are talented (and if I like their parents), usually I like seeing 2nd generation performers. Mamet has been doing solid work for years in plays and on TV. Another example is Zoe Kazan, granddaughter of Elia, who I've seen in more than half a dozen stage roles in the past few years. And both Meryl Streep's daughters have been wonderful in roles I've seen them in.

I do think if one of Mel Gibson or Glenn Beck's kids showed up in something, I'd probably judge them more harshly. Maybe that's not fair, but it's honest.
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#129

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:55 AM

Hardly household names, either of them. And are Dunham's parents well-known? I don't know them. It's really just both Mamet's parents & Williams' father who are well known.

If they are talented (and if I like their parents), usually I like seeing 2nd generation performers. Mamet has been doing solid work for years in plays and on TV. Another example is Zoe Kazan, granddaughter of Elia, who I've seen in more than half a dozen stage roles in the past few years. And both Meryl Streep's daughters have been wonderful in roles I've seen them in.

I do think if one of Mel Gibson or Glenn Beck's kids showed up in something, I'd probably judge them more harshly. Maybe that's not fair, but it's honest.


I have to agree with you none of these girls' parents register in my mind, except for Brian William's daughter and I'm thinking its the NBC news anchor that is her father.

Edited by nicole8705, Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:57 AM.

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#130

bulldawgtownie

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:59 AM


What is the obsession with women of this generation wanting to refer to themselves as "girls"? Two Broke Girls, New Girl, and now Girls...

Interesting point. Maybe it's because our young adulthood is an extension of adolescence (bad economy--having to depend on parents, no jobs/lower paying jobs, getting married later in life, etc.).

In one of the extra's on HBO Ondemand Lena Dunham says she named the show "Girls" because they're still trying to figure themselves and everything else out and aren't women yet.

I personally think how famous the cast's parents are or aren't is irrelevant. All I care about is if you're a good actor or actress and if your story is interesting to me.

Edited by bulldawgtownie, Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:02 PM.

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#131

Bean9879

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:20 PM

I didn't really like the first episode. And then I watched Tiny Furniture. I hated every character, especially Lena's. Am I supposed to hate these people? Are these based on real people, because they all suck. Grow up, get jobs and be an adult.


This. Except that I watched 'Tiny Furniture' first.
I will admit that the second ep had two moments that I found amusing: the "who are the ladies" bit, and when Dunham commented that her friend was lucky that her period was like clockwork because she never knew when it was coming. But maybe that second one was a laugh of recognition...
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#132

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

Yes, a character who doesn't want to have a baby having a convenient miscarriage is something I've seen before on TV, and it's not something I'd expect or want in 2012.


THIS. Is my PET PEEVE. Friday Night Lights is practically the only fiction show I've ever seen where the character actually goes through with the (well-thought-out, sensible) abortion, and isn't punished for it. I do expect to see it in 2012, but not in the groundbreaking, truth-telling, yada yada HBO show. Have her miss the appointment and go back for the freaking abortion alone the next day.

A good thing the show has in common with SATC so far is the depiction of an unsuitable guy you ought to get rid of but don't. I had an uncomfortable, almost creepy sense of recognition watching Hannah's nasty fuck-buddy and their interactions. Lord, I've been there. I've been there with SATC's Steve, Skipper, Berger, etc., too. That was what made SATC worth watching to me, and I'll keep watching this show if it tells a similar set of truths about the men I've dated and the dumb things I've done with them.
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#133

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:32 PM

Her not showing up and then being 'saved' by the late period or miscarriage or whatever just felt cliche.

I think that celebrating a miscarriage is still pretty subversive. I mean, it's fine to celebrate the fact that you're not actually pregnant but getting a miscarriage? Kind of weird.

I can't believe Hannah is so stupid. She was nailing that interview and then she just had to...WTF is wrong with her? Being spoiled doesn't really explain why she is so terrible with understanding that some things are not appropriate to say. Small children are the ones who generally learn this lesson. And why didn't that ever come up in her internship?

I get the feeling that Marnie is supposed to be overbearing and overly controlling but her friends are all such irresponsible dumbasses that I fully sympathize with her. They should really listen to her more. I can even sympathize with her boyfriend issues. He's great, yeah, but the attraction is gone for her and she's not ready to settle down in a comfortable long-term less passionate relationship. I think Hannah was right (for once). She's been with him since she was 19 and she's just gotten bored. She just needs to admit it to herself now and see if she can fix it, deal with it, or end it.

How is Hannah paying her rent?
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#134

paradig_m

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 1:12 AM

I find this show watchable but not worthy of all the hype and press it's been getting.

Maybe I'm alone, but I like Jessa. She's kind of above it all but also really fucked up. It doesn't hurt, however, that I think Jemima Kirke is gorgeous and her accent is lovely.

I don't really care for Shoshanna. I know that invoking the specter of Sex and the City is lame, but she totally reminds me of a young Charlotte York. And I always found Charlotte annoying. It doesn't seem too plausible that someone like Shoshanna would hang out with Hannah and Marnie or even Jessa (though I know they're cousins).

I finally watched Tiny Furniture the other night, and if it's possible, Lena Dunham's character in that was even whinier and made even stupider decisions. Jemima Kirke's character was pretty similar to Jessa, too. TF was basically a proto-pilot for Girls, and I don't understand the heaps of praise and attention given to the film or the show. Bizarre.

The period line about underwear with all kinds of funky stains made me laugh for real, though--I was like, oh shit, I'm not the only gross period-punk'd slob out there? Dunham does seem to go where many women writers haven't, can't, or won't in some moments of this show.

Edited by paradig_m, Apr 25, 2012 @ 1:16 AM.

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#135

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 6:32 AM

I didn't mind the "convenient miscarriage" here as much as other shows because Jessa just has that irresponsible, consequence-free life. She can flit about from country to country, because of course she'll always find a job. She can have unprotected sex, because of course she won't get pregnant. And when she does, of course she'll have a miscarriage, because having an abortion would be the mature responsible thing to do. I saw it coming a mile away because I've known enough "Jessas" in my life to know they never have to grow up or take responsibility because when their loved ones can't or won't clean up their messes, life hands them a pass. Every. Single. Time. And I've been the Marnie, picking up the pieces. Every. Single. Time. I can't relate too much to the "Girls", re: their privileges, their entitlement, their parentally arranged debt-free lives, but on that front I can empathize greatly.
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#136

quietquilts

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 7:34 AM

I wanted to like this but so far none of the characters are very likable. Maybe that's the point? The only one I can stand is Jessa and that's pushing it. The lead character is really annoying, from making date rape jokes at a job interview to the repeated references of an abortion being like a party. Ugh.
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#137

RoxyMonoxide

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 8:06 AM

I wanted to like this but so far none of the characters are very likable. Maybe that's the point? The only one I can stand is Jessa and that's pushing it. The lead character is really annoying, from making date rape jokes at a job interview to the repeated references of an abortion being like a party. Ugh.


I've come to the conclusion that we're not supposed to like Hannah; or at least I'm not supposed to like Hannah. She's kind of the embodiment of everything I find so distasteful in the Internet generation - the inappropriate jokes that people are supposed to find so shocking but really just find inappropriate, the air of entitlement ... all she's missing is some casually racist jokes followed up by "I'm not racist, my (heretofore never mentioned) best friend is (insert minority here). And I just luv Taylor the Creator." She's like the walking female incarnation of all those hipster blogs decrying "The War on Brunch" and advertising self-published poetry collections celebrating life's "many realities". I don't think we're supposed to like her, but rather feel empathetic toward her arrest development and cluelessness while cringing at her bad decisions.
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#138

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 8:10 AM

Frank Bruni wrote a column in the NY Times a couple of weeks ago about the S&M-themed novel "Fifty Shades of Gray" - he said "Gloria Steinem went to the barricades for this?"

Which is what I think about this show. It makes me want to go sit in Zuccotti Park and yell about the one percent. So I guess I'm done.
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#139

bulldawgtownie

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 12:07 PM

I think that celebrating a miscarriage is still pretty subversive. I mean, it's fine to celebrate the fact that you're not actually pregnant but getting a miscarriage? Kind of weird


I didn't mind the "convenient miscarriage" here as much as other shows

I don't think she miscarried but instead got her period late.

How is Hannah paying her rent?

She's roomates with Marnie and her parents were paying her half of the rent(as well as everything else) it hasn't been a new month yet so it remains to be seen how Hannah will pay for her half of the rent from now on.
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#140

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 1:50 PM

I don't think she miscarried but instead got her period late.

But how goes around announcing she's pregnant and even scheduling an abortion before verifying that she is, in fact, pregnant?

...Jessa, apparently.
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#141

biakbiak

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 1:51 PM

I don't think she miscarried but instead got her period late.


She had an appointment for an abortion, the clinic would have confirmed pregnancy before they scheduled that.
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#142

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 2:52 PM

She had an appointment for an abortion, the clinic would have confirmed pregnancy before they scheduled that.


You're right, but I think for the purposes of "drama/comedy" it's supposed to be her period.
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#143

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 1:11 AM

Friday Night Lights is practically the only fiction show I've ever seen where the character actually goes through with the (well-thought-out, sensible) abortion, and isn't punished for it. I do expect to see it in 2012, but not in the groundbreaking, truth-telling, yada yada HBO show. Have her miss the appointment and go back for the freaking abortion alone the next day.

A good thing the show has in common with SATC so far is the depiction of an unsuitable guy you ought to get rid of but don't. I had an uncomfortable, almost creepy sense of recognition watching Hannah's nasty fuck-buddy and their interactions. Lord, I've been there. I've been there with SATC's Steve, Skipper, Berger, etc., too. That was what made SATC worth watching to me, and I'll keep watching this show if it tells a similar set of truths about the men I've dated and the dumb things I've done with them.


The "convenient miscarriage" (or "convenient early period") bothered me, and I did think of SATC, because although Miranda didn't go through with an abortion, Carrie admitted that she'd had one. I didn't love SATC so much the first time I watched it, as a twentysomething in a committed relationship living in NYC--but re-watching it now as a single thirtysomething, that "creepy sense of recognition" is constant and a bit horrible, and does make me really respect the show. I don't personally relate to any of the characters in "Girls," but I do think it's aiming to expose those kinds of truths.

I think "Girls" is going for realism/dark humor much more than likability, and it comes across to me that we're supposed to cringe at Hannah more than like her. My problem with the show is that is IS too much what it's ostensibly exposing or parodying---waaaay overprivileged, unlikable, oversharing kids living on family money.

The Bad Company drummer(Gemima Kirke's dad)might not be a "household name" that everyone in America knows all about, but he is arguably a famous rock star (he played with Ringo Starr's band, etc), and is extremely rich and well-connected--his father-in-law is a billionaire. Lena Dunham's parents aren't world famous, but her artist mother (Laurie Simmons) is well-known in certain circles---these are all people who can easily afford to put up their spoiled, mooching children in pricy NYC apartments for years after college, send them to the most selective $33k/yr elementary schools, etc. Making it as an artist or filmmaker here is a lot easier if your parents, like Lena Dunham's, have a loft for you to live in rent-free while you meet with their network-executive amd producer friends.

The nepotism bothers me. It wouldn't, if it was a total meritocracy and all kids got the same elite educations and open doors that have benefitted the Streep spawn, the Gyllenhaals, and the girls on this show--but it's not. People can't help coming from privileged backgrounds, and some 2nd & 3rd-generation rich/famous people really are wonderfully talented, and their work earns its keep---but if HBO is going to start letting 25-year-olds make their shows, I'd like to see some brilliant, creative 25-year-olds from other backgrounds given those opportunities, too.

I appreciated that How to Make It in America had a more diverse cast--neither the characters nor all of the actors were nepotism cases--and tried to portray a different side of ambitious NYC life.

From what I've gathered from interviews, it seems like Dunham's work is very autobiographical. Which can work, IMO, but so far I'm finding her as a writer/actress just as unlikable as I find her character as a person. I suspect that, unlike Hannah's parents, Lena's never cut her off, but just kept the teat in her mouth while she made her movie. Which would be awesome if it was a wonderful movie.

Edited by Miss Sargent, Apr 26, 2012 @ 1:12 AM.

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#144

bulldawgtownie

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 2:09 AM

The nepotism bothers me

It's not nepotism if none of their parents work on the show and therefore don't have any input into the casting decisions.
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#145

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 6:54 AM

No, it isn't nepotism, but I think Miss Sargent's point is that all of the actresses had the connections to land their roles without having to fear the consequences of rejection, ie, having to work another job while they waited for their next acting opportunity. They can most likely sit pretty while they focus on their dreams, the way Hannah proposed doing with her parents, which is why all of these virtual unknowns are leading a new series on a major network, even though Zosia Mamet is the only one, so far, IMHO, who is a notably talented actress. So not only are all the characters overprivileged young white women, so is all the cast. It's a little disheartening for current twenty somethings having to take jobs with salaries that barely cover the cost of their student loans, living at home because even working 40+ hours a week, they still can't afford not to, watching these girls roll around in the lap of luxury thinking that they're relating to us from atop their ivory towers.
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#146

RoxyMonoxide

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 7:44 AM

It's a little disheartening for current twenty somethings having to take jobs with salaries that barely cover the cost of their student loans, living at home because even working 40+ hours a week, they still can't afford not to, watching these girls roll around in the lap of luxury thinking that they're relating to us from atop their ivory towers


Ahh, but for a lot of 20-somethings this is actually aspirational, as all they are missing is the rich parents to keep them living the hipster lifestyle. And do you really think these shitty apartments are all that luxurious? They look like the typical over-priced post-college mismatched furniture digs I would expect someone coming right out of college and still living on the parents' dole to be in - gritty and cramped enough to keep them from staying with you, not particularly aethetically pleasing, and small.
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#147

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 9:52 AM

I know it's only been two episodes but I think I actually hate this show. I may give it one more try but ugh, I just want to slap everyone on the screen. Especially Hannah. I usually want to like the main character of a show and I really don't like her. It's why I never got into Grey's Anatomy. I cannot stand the main character on that show either. Can't understand what the fuss is.

Edited by Box305, Apr 26, 2012 @ 9:55 AM.

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#148

Wacky Hijinx

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:10 AM

From what I've gathered from interviews, it seems like Dunham's work is very autobiographical.


This is my biggest problem, is that you can see the writing process being based on her life while watching the show, instead of just thinking as the people as characters in a show. I know people base their writing on true life, but it shouldn't be so obvious. You can tell that every quirk, like fearing AIDS since she was little or 'the stuff on the sides of condoms'(that she felt the need to include 20x), is something Lena Dunham has been obsessed with in real life, so she made it her character's quirk.

During, every conversation, like the part about how great working at McDonald's actually is, I thought "Oh, so this is just a conversation she had with one of her friend's one day, and decided it was a deep and unusual thought, so she should find a way to include it in her script." It's one of the reasons Diablo Cody's writing bugs me so much, because you'll be watching something, and she'll slip in some word or dialogue that you can tell she thinks is super witty, then suddenly as a viewer you remember that Diablo Cody is actually writing these words, and it's not the character speaking them.

But instead of just a few moments of dialogue, it's the whole show where I'm thinking, "So this is just another one of Lena's perceived noteworthy conversations." I don't feel like I'm watching a show or characters, but instead, someone just re-telling me about a 'funny' conversation they had when they were drunk with people I don't know and don't care about.
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#149

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:26 AM

Here's a Fresh Air interview from a couple of years ago when Dunham was promoting Tiny Furniture:

http://www.npr.org/2...-tiny-furniture

She touches on whether her work is autobiographical.
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#150

OptimisticCynic

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 2:06 PM

Has anyone watched "Broad City?". (NSFW) It's a webseries executive produced by Amy Poehler and also stars two 20 something women living in Brooklyn. I'm curious about the comparisons. I've only watched a few snippets on youtube of Broad City and will have to wait until Girls comes out on DVD to watch it. Ilana Glazer, one of the writers and actresses, was responsible for the really funny Shit New Yorkers Say video.

eta: It looks like Broad City is in development with FX:
http://www.nytimes.c...-web-to-fx.html

Edited by OptimisticCynic, Apr 26, 2012 @ 2:26 PM.

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