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24-9: "Go Out With a Bang" 2012.04.11


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#151

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 2:02 PM

If Kim ditches one of the women to take Tarzan to the F3, as someone hinted at earlier, that will be her undoing. The women will vote against her for doing that and taking an easy target to the finals, thereby making it seem as if she felt she couldn't win against other girls who had given her their loyalty the entire time ..... and Tarzan may turn out to be not so stupid after all. What if this is all an act, and we're all being played....bigtime? I'd be the first to vote for him if he suddenly says "Hey...it's called 'outwit' for a reason. And I just did it."

Stranger things have happened in this game.

#152

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 2:25 PM

OurJames
Perhaps we'll actually see two good players who dare to go head-to-head in the FTC. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

We had three good players doing so just last season.

#153

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 4:03 PM

Coach....maybe. The other two...eh....last season was very lackluster in my humble opinion, this one is sizing up to be much more interesting.

#154

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:14 PM

I loved the last episode. Go girls!

I was nervous for Kim because I thought she should have played the idol but, lucky for her no one was going to flip for Troyzan. It's refreshing to see woman stick together and not f' themselves over. Although Alicia had that bad phase earlier.

Is Leif not in on the plan, because he went with the phoney Alicia plan.

I thought that they could have played the IC better. Alicia should have at least tried to act as if she thought she needed it. Christina f'd up before it even began but I would have expected her to at least act like she smelled danger.

I hope Kim wins because she is really playing like a champ.

#155

lemonsherry

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:16 PM

Sabrina is sitting the prettiest now. She has been on the periphery of Kim's machinations---as far as the guys see it. For Jay, who will no doubt pass this on to the jury, Kim and Chelsea are the betrayers of the alliance. If Sabrina makes the final three with Kim and Chelsea, as is being planned, she will have a great chance at winning if the jury decides to attack from a 'you two betrayed us' angle. Then again if they come from a 'we respect your gameplay' angle, then she'd be out on account of ~coattailing~ etc. And to be honest she really hasn't done anything strategically except go along for the ride, so I wouldnt be too torn up if that's the case.

And can we talk about poor Kat? I love that her end game is: "I could make final four!"

#156

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:37 PM

Sabrina is sitting the prettiest now. She has been on the periphery of Kim's machinations---as far as the guys see it. For Jay, who will no doubt pass this on to the jury, Kim and Chelsea are the betrayers of the alliance. If Sabrina makes the final three with Kim and Chelsea, as is being planned, she will have a great chance at winning if the jury decides to attack from a 'you two betrayed us' angle. Then again if they come from a 'we respect your gameplay' angle, then she'd be out on account of ~coattailing~ etc. And to be honest she really hasn't done anything strategically except go along for the ride, so I wouldnt be too torn up if that's the case.


I don't agree because I think Sabrina so far has been a coattail rider. She started out strong but Kim and Chelsea are seen by the guys as the mastermind. Although it is really Kim. Everyone seems sane that will be on the Jury and respect people for their gameplay. Call it a strange season but being blessed that Colton is gone took away the bullshit that I think would have been flying.

The only wildcards might be Alicia or Tarzan. Tarzan who makes no sense and Alicia who I think sees herself higher that 5 or 6.

I think that Kim for sure wants to stick to her deal and take Chelsea and Sabrina to the F3 and hopes to talk up her gameplay and win votes because of it. I think Chelsea will not make a move against her, via HII and she's not really up to it. But I think Sabrina may soon come to realize that Kim is closer to winning if they go to the final and feel she must make a move. But she's not making any move until Troy is out.

If the women stick together till he is gone then I think we will see some movement. Alicia and Sabrina seem the types to try and make moves. Christina is playing anyone but me and wants to just let the best woman win, as I think Kat is thinking, with hopes of an immunity run. I would respect all the woman if they just waited to get rid of Troy, then more power to 'em turned on each other. The jury will vote for Troy, not so much Tarzan or Leif because they are dudes.

#157

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:54 PM

This season is certainly turning out to be much better than I expected. I really do enjoy watching good gameplay over unnecessary drama. I sure wish we had more survivors like Kim and Sabrina every season.

Kat did surprise me a bit in this episode. She may not be the smartest person around, but she seems to have good insticts when it comes to not blurting out the wrong thing (a la Chelsea).


These women are GOOD.


No, the men are that bad this season.


IMO, both of these statements are true.

#158

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:56 PM

It's just something about the look in his eye: Troy has reminded me from the start of a slightly more boorish, less alpha Terry Deitz. And now that's exactly his role. Yogurt Baron


I'm not feeling that. At the time, I felt Terry resembled a failed military experiment to clone Tom Westman. The man had little gameplay and no real intent on making friends, either for personal reasons or strategy. Troy is probably a cool guy, when he's not asking people to call him "Troyzan."

Edited by Lantern7, Apr 12, 2012 @ 5:59 PM.


#159

TDWT Kristen

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:01 PM

Or when he's not claiming the island to be his island.

#160

OurJames

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:18 PM

Kat did surprise me a bit in this episode. She may not be the smartest person around, but she seems to have good insticts when it comes to not blurting out the wrong thing (a la Chelsea).

I remember one scene in particular where I was sure she was going to blurt out something to the wrong person, but she kept it together. I can't remember who she was talking with, but she could have made a big tactical error, and she didn't. Kat for the win! OK, not really. But goodonyer Kat.

Edited by OurJames, Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:19 PM.


#161

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:32 PM

Now that Troy played the idol, will another one be placed out for someone to find? Don't they usually replace them up until they can no longer be used?

#162

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 7:44 PM

I remember one scene in particular where I was sure she was going to blurt out something to the wrong person, but she kept it together. I can't remember who she was talking with, but she could have made a big tactical error, and she didn't. Kat for the win! OK, not really. But goodonyer Kat.


I think that was with Jay at the reward, and she really did keep it together there. Jay came out of that feeling like everything was still cool with nuSalani.

Now that Troy played the idol, will another one be placed out for someone to find? Don't they usually replace them up until they can no longer be used?


I think you are correct, but I will be very annoyed if Troy finds another HII this episode and plays it yet again at TC. Since there are now no clues or riddles to solve, what's to keep him from spending the next 3 days just digging through the trees and sand until he finds it? Sure, everyone else could do the same, but at that point I think we have a failed game mechanic. HIIs from Heaven is not my idea of fun Survivor.

#163

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 8:40 PM

I think that Kim for sure wants to stick to her deal and take Chelsea and Sabrina to the F3 and hopes to talk up her gameplay and win votes because of it. I think Chelsea will not make a move against her, via HII and she's not really up to it.


Agree with this. In my opinion, Kim would be well advised to start now, if she hasn't already, to make sure that everyone is aware that she is the strategist who is calling the shots. She needs to be very subtle and tactful, but she can do this. Although I like Chelsea and Sabrina, I want Kim to win because I want to see good game play rewarded. And as people have said upthread, she would win without fake flirty female cutesiness, and without riding the coattails of any man.

#164

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:11 PM

Same thing happened to Heidik, and to Sophie (who I don't think was very good, but who was the same "cold" type.) If your game is defined by how ice-cold you are, people aren't going to like you, because, well, what's to like? Probably the coldest player who's ever become popular is Yul, and he was Stanley Kowalski next to Kim.

I don't find Kim cold at all. I just find her smart. I don't know how anyone else might feel about that, but it makes her awesome, as far as I'm concerned.

What did she do that suggested she "clearly wanted the men to see who was in charge"?

She said "the line has been muddy; it's time to show the men where the line is".

She said she had been going back and forth across the line between alliances. That was the point of that statement--she was going to stand on one side of that line she'd been moving across, and the men would have to know once and for all; she couldn't fudge the line anymore. I don't care if she was telling them she was in charge. I just don't think that was the intent of her statement.

#165

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

I don't find Kim cold at all. I just find her smart. I don't know how anyone else might feel about that, but it makes her awesome, as far as I'm concerned.


ITA. I think she's generally cool as a cucumber, but I don't find her the least bit cold. Most of the time she seems very matter-of-fact in confessionals, and she isn't prone to getting emotional when talking with the members of the tribe (that we've seen). But that doesn't automatically make her cold. It's possible to play the game with your head and not your heart, and still be likeable and personable. (And I suspect she is more charismatic in person than she has come across in the bits we've seen of her, based simply on the ease with which she seems to keep people voting the way she wants, and the fact that both Mike and Jay clearly felt close to her even as she was preparing to boot them.)

#166

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

Another terrific episode; this season is turning into an armchair strategist's feast. TPTB probably held Kim out a couple of seasons so she wouldn't impede the pre-arranged coronation of Boston Rob or the rigging of the game to keep Ozzy around.

I'm glad Troyzan had at least enough awareness to detect the not-so-subtle clues at the IC that the women were feeling mighty inter-congratulatory. I like the guy; he seems to love and study the game, and he's got an infectious good humor. Too bad his spidey-sense app took a week to load. And he's right about having to play the idol: 9 out of 10 of the dumbest moments in Survivor seem to be idols hanging on someone's walls as a souvenir (or James wearing his two as earrings).

Sabrina, Alicia and Kat think themselves certain for F4. They probably figure they will have to duke it out for F3 depending on final immunity. This actually might help Kim/Chelsea to vote them out without hurting anyone's feelings. If they already see the situation as murky, they will understand any decision that is reasonably explained. Specially if buttered in "you were the biggest threat".


This may be the only roadblock to a Kim win. By Final 5, Sabrina, Kat and Alicia(or Christina) should figure out that Kim would be a formidable FTC foe. If I were Sabrina (the brains of the trio), that would be the golden oppotunity, get those three votes against Chelsea (since Kim would presumably still have the idol) break up the power dyad, pray that Kim doesn't win F4 immunity, and you're golden, with an F3 against 1) the goatiest of goats and 2) an inert lump. Kim had better start finessing her chess pieces into place (by constantly working Kat and Alicia/ Christina) to forestall that eventuality.

#167

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:44 PM

Chelsea: "Step down so you won't seem like a threat." Like he has up until now.


Yeah, and also, whether you're a threat depends on whether you can win challenges, not on whether you do. If you're kicking ass in a challenge and you step down, people still think of you as just as much of a threat as they would have if you won. Good on Chelsea for being able to sell this to Leif. Her best moment of the season, strategically, for me.

Laziness is not a trait I like to see rewarded, and if Cirie was the prime mover into the mindset of voting off the hard workers/providers, then I dislike her even more.


I don't get this, SpeciousLogic. From the moment Hatch stepped onto the beach, this has been 95% a social/strategic game, 5% athletic (think Fabio, Ozzy, Colby, Terry Deitz). Whether someone is a "provider" or is "lazy" couldn't have less to do with the actual game. When you're deciding who's winning a chess game, you look at who's making the right moves on the board, not at who's running around getting their opponents food or building them a place to live. That stuff has always been more about Survivor the TV show for me; some of the players who bug me most are the ones, like Russell Swan, who screw up their actual games because they're doing the provider thing.

But then, that's what's fun about Survivor: we all come at it from a different angle, moreso than with most TV shows, I think.

We had three good players (going head-to-head) just last season.


My first thought was to disagree with this because I think they all sucked, but, you know, they all sucked equally. The three who went to F3 were probably the three strongest of the F6. They didn't take the even-worse-than-themselves Edna or Brandon.

#168

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 2:28 AM

I think she's [Kim] generally cool as a cucumber, but I don't find her the least bit cold. Most of the time she seems very matter-of-fact in confessionals, and she isn't prone to getting emotional when talking with the members of the tribe (that we've seen). But that doesn't automatically make her cold. It's possible to play the game with your head and not your heart, and still be likeable and personable. (And I suspect she is more charismatic in person than she has come across in the bits we've seen of her, based simply on the ease with which she seems to keep people voting the way she wants, and the fact that both Mike and Jay clearly felt close to her even as she was preparing to boot them.)


SpeciousLogic, agree with this. In fact, I would wager her charisma will stand her in good stead in the years to come. I doubt this is the last we've seen of Kim. She has the makings of an excellent politician or diplomat.

I think some of the perceived coldness may come from the fact that she is always thinking and analyzing. She's probably dreaming strategy (not dreaming about being killed, as Jay presciently did, a bizarre little asterisk this week).

I also believe that there is zero perceived arrogance and zero perceived cockiness. I mean, Jay went to Ponderosa still believing that Kim and Chelsea were not among those who voted him out. I listened to him say that and could barely even get out the Wha-aa?

================

Just re-watched the last 20 minutes on CBS. Chelsea was the one who said she loves money.

They initially targeted Troy because they realize he's way smarter than Jay. Troy is strategic.

Jay's phrasing when he talked to Kim and Chelsea was funky: I don't want to know about no blindsides going on. Heh.

Jay assuring Troy: "I haven't heard the slightest inclination..." And he promises Troy that they are all voting out Alicia.

Then (further proof how good these women are), Jay concludes that TROY is the one who's dangerous. And starts plotting with Kim to take Troy out either tonight or the next time.

All right, now for the real reason I subjected myself to this again: Greg-Tarzan's comment at TC.

Jeff asked how the men lost control. Greg: "They [the men] lost their will [Jonas looks shocked] several days ago. And the allegiance was broken. And now it's women two up. So the girls are a lot smarter than the boys." [There's hope for Greg yet.]

When Jeff asks about the HII, Chelsea was actually smart in her reply. She deflected EVERYthing to the men, as if maybe two men had HII. Not a glance at Kim, or anything else to give her away. Stunning. And Alicia followed her lead by keeping everything pointed at "the men".

Now to Greg's alliance comment. Jeff asked Greg what he anticipated happening after tonight's vote.

Greg: "I think the alliance that I know of is going to strengthen, and the faith will be restored. And there will be a powerhouse that will take them [listened three times - them] to the end. If people just do what they say they were going to do before we got here. And other than that, the game is afoot."

I may be crazy, but I feel like Greg's statement marks a watershed moment of sorts. An awful lot of strategic information is hidden in those words.

Edited by FrogsRule, Apr 13, 2012 @ 2:29 AM.


#169

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 6:24 AM

So nice to have Survivor back instead of whatever that horrible MTV soap opera was they kept putting on in its place. Apologies for this being so long. Twelve pages of posts to comment on! :P

General gameplay comments:

Re: Why Christina would choose to vote with the women:

I think FrogsRule answered this well by calling it the Sandra game, and the comments from people who watched the extra footage make it clear that she has considered her ability to win ICs against various competitors. I would not be surprised if she is hoping that she'll get farther when people use her as a pawn to cannibalize their strongest alliance-mates. It's certainly happened before. I admit at this point she seems to be playing to get as far as she can rather than win, but she's also been told "Everyone hates you" and been bottom rung on every ladder. Hell, Tarzan left her out of his family! So I don't know that aiming for winning as anything other than a horrible "We hate you, but we hate them worse. Oh, and you suck." vote could be called anything but delusional.

I'm wondering where the secret footage of her kicking kittens and picking puppies up by their ears is since the tribe seems so anti-Christina.

LOL, let's see... Christina and Leif somehow manage to make it to F3 with Tarzan. What a circus that would be.


OMG. That thought hadn't crossed my mind. It's just... boggling. Who would clean up the mess made by the exploding heads of the jury members?

Why not Christina or Alicia instead of leaving a smart, angry Troy?

SimonHumbolt and enlightenedbum answered this well, I think. Keep the reliable votes, flush any idols, and remove immunity threats outside your alliance when you have the chance or it may never come again.

I'd add that in a game where two people have been med evacuated, I'd want more than a one-person voting advantage as often and as long as I could get it.

Talking about FTC-- is it too early?

I don't think so. If you aren't thinking about FTC (who you want to take, who you don't want to take, and the way possible jury votes will swing), I think you risk ending up there with the wrong people. Sophie played this perfectly last season.

But I agree with what you are saying in the sense that there is no absolute formula to calculate a person's greatness in this game. Kim might have been voted out very early in a different season based on luck alone. Everyone looks like a better player when they are in the voting majority, and they generally end up in that majority based on other people's actions.


This. I sometimes ponder things like, "Would Boston Rob have won if he'd ended up on the other tribe?" Luck and personalities play a large role in what options people really have to maneuver.

It could be that the fact that they are ALL attractive enough to work the flirt and cuddle game is what's stopping them from doing it.


Or some of the options for flirting. *shudders* Or possibly because too much flirting with one person puts you in dangerous "They're a couple! Break them up!" territory, and flirting with more than one person can end up with hurt feelings by a jury member and wariness from other women. In some ways, I think Jay and Troy really misplayed by being a sort of power couple (I refuse to use the term bromance).

Why would Kim raise her hand and admit she feels vulnerable?

One, I think it stops her from appearing too smug if she admits that she feels vulnerable, particularly since she'd already been told of the "Vote for Kim!" plan and adjusted a vote or so accordingly. Two, if she did get voted out, she at least wouldn't look stupid for not seeing it coming.

Character (scuse me, "Cast") comments:

About Kim as a terrible poker player but a great chess player and her body language giving away that she was lying:

I think it is clear to us, the TV-watching crowd, when she is lying. We get our attention focused on her visual cues for us by the cameras. In person, though? I bet you can tell she's uncomfortable, but who wouldn't be when voting out someone they'd been in an alliance with and seemed to sort of consider a friend? And if you're a bit distracted, you might not notice the little signs. As others have said, I expect she's crazy charismatic in person. To be able to think clearly, keep her temper with people, and keep people mostly happy with her on little food and sleep and with sand in uncomfortable places for weeks on end? I imagine that adds great difficulty to the poker.

Personally, I want to send Kim a cheeseburger and milkshake. Her hipbones are starting to scare me. Survivor: The one place in life where those with slower metabolisms may actually have an advantage.

Leif just wanted to be liked by a beautiful woman!


superpole2000 beat me to it. Leif does seem sweet, but more than that, every time he is shown talking about one of the women, he says something nice. Every time one of them speaks to him, he seems overjoyed. While the women aren't playing the flirt and cuddle (Thank God), in this case I don't feel like they need to. He seems to be very susceptible to pressure from anyone, but particular from a beautiful woman.

Chelsea is... being too wishy-washy and making herself look unreliable to her alliance.


It alarmed me when Alicia and Kat seemed to be voices of reason compared to her.

I think she's going to Amanda it at FTC.


Oh, man. Now that you said that, I can completely see it. And really, I never wanted to see Sadmanda in another FTC after the first one. I'm convinced that if you handed Amanda a gun, she would literally shoot herself in the foot. And cry.

And the fashion commentary section:

The one-shouldered woman's red top was...breathtaking...
Wasn't it? It really showed the moobs to their best advantage.
Confidential to T*rz*n: That is not a good look for you. Next time, how about something with a little more volume, in black?


These three comments cracked me up. This is why I read the forum. :) I wonder how Tarzan feels about his plastic surgeon? Those are some moobs. Bet Monica is hoping he doesn't show up at her house to return the sweater and just toss it in with her laundry.

With that hood, Alicia looks like a Star Wars character.


Ha! I had been thinking she was going for "desert chic" (no pun intended) before that comment, but now I can totally see her as Sith.

(Edited for grammar/readability.)

Edited by libgirl, Apr 13, 2012 @ 6:35 AM.


#170

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 7:04 AM

I may be crazy, but I feel like Greg's statement marks a watershed moment of sorts.


As I said earlier, it wouldn't surprise me to find out he's really smarter then he comes across and we're all being played. I'd actually give him a standing ovation in my living room if he pulls something like that off. I mean....nobody's that grumpy 24/7, are they? :)

#171

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:24 AM

And I consider that a negative trend, not a positive one, so that fits right in with my non-Cirie-loving rationale. Laziness is not a trait I like to see rewarded, and if Cirie was the prime mover into the mindset of voting off the hard workers/providers, then I dislike her even more.


She didn't target workers/providers necessarily. She targeted those in the way of her winning. For good players, another player being a worker/provider should be neither a plus or minus.

It's a 1 in 7 chance of going out 10th, and I disagree with this completely. Anything can happen in 3 days if you can make it through the next TC; the dominant alliance might have a falling out, one of the fringe members might suddenly become aware that they are, in fact, fringe members and be ready to flip, etc., etc. None of that helps you if you happened to draw the rock. I would absolutely never go to PROD in the game if I could help it (unless I knew I was getting voted out that night regardless), because I would trust my ability to change my own fate much more than the fickle fates.


It's the Cockroach argument all over again, lol. As far as I'm concerned, what happened to Cockroach after he refused to pick the PROD for essentially the reasons you give, proves that he should've picked it and that the PROD in the right circumstance is actually the smartest move.

I think you are correct, but I will be very annoyed if Troy finds another HII this episode and plays it yet again at TC. Since there are now no clues or riddles to solve, what's to keep him from spending the next 3 days just digging through the trees and sand until he finds it? Sure, everyone else could do the same, but at that point I think we have a failed game mechanic. HIIs from Heaven is not my idea of fun Survivor.



So what is? Working hard and getting rewarded for it while refusing to take any chances at all?

I don't get this, SpeciousLogic. From the moment Hatch stepped onto the beach, this has been 95% a social/strategic game, 5% athletic (think Fabio, Ozzy, Colby, Terry Deitz). Whether someone is a "provider" or is "lazy" couldn't have less to do with the actual game. When you're deciding who's winning a chess game, you look at who's making the right moves on the board, not at who's running around getting their opponents food or building them a place to live. That stuff has always been more about Survivor the TV show for me; some of the players who bug me most are the ones, like Russell Swan, who screw up their actual games because they're doing the provider thing.


I've been doing the message board thing with Survivor since way back in the first season when the primary discussion vehicles were Yahoo clubs. I remember a firestorm of an argument about alliances. Some people absolutely hated alliances, considering it tantamount to cheating or at least scuzzy play, and absolutely hated Hatch for "ruining" the game. The first season completely set the stage for the rest of the show, with Tagi standing for alliances and Pagong standing for rewarding the most deserving people and those who could contribute the most to the tribe. We all saw how that turned out, and by S2 alliances were the gold standard of Survivor play.

But, even with all that being said, the provider/worker still has some clout for a long time. That's why early season people like Colby and Boston Rob had difficulty adjusting to the new style of game play their second and third times around (and why it took Rob four--FOUR!!--times to finally manage a win). Players like Rupert could earn at least a few weeks by providing, but that all changed eventually and I see Cirie as one of the key people to change that. And why not? She was never going to be a key provider, so why should she allow that role to be sacrosanct?

Edited by yoshi, Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:34 AM.


#172

OurJames

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:53 AM

Greg: "I think the alliance that I know of is going to strengthen, and the faith will be restored. And there will be a powerhouse that will take them [listened three times - them] to the end. If people just do what they say they were going to do before we got here. And other than that, the game is afoot."

Completely agree about these comments. I was quite stunned when I heard them, because they mapped so accurately to the reality of what was going down while remaining completely abstract. It was like hearing Nostradamus actually get something right. Well, except for "the game is afoot." Didn't have a clue what he meant by that, unless it's his way of saying "whatever."

#173

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:00 AM

Well, except for "the game is afoot." Didn't have a clue what he meant by that, unless it's his way of saying "whatever."


He says that when he doesn't want to tip his hand to Jeff or others. It's growing on me.

#174

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:03 AM

Yeah. "The game is afoot" is actually a pretty handy shorthand for "STFU Probst!"

#175

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:28 AM

I don't get this, SpeciousLogic. From the moment Hatch stepped onto the beach, this has been 95% a social/strategic game, 5% athletic (think Fabio, Ozzy, Colby, Terry Deitz). Whether someone is a "provider" or is "lazy" couldn't have less to do with the actual game. When you're deciding who's winning a chess game, you look at who's making the right moves on the board, not at who's running around getting their opponents food or building them a place to live. That stuff has always been more about Survivor the TV show for me; some of the players who bug me most are the ones, like Russell Swan, who screw up their actual games because they're doing the provider thing.


My last comment on this whole topic (b/c it could start to get OT) is simply that I value certain traits in people (hard workers, nice people, positive traits), and I want people who exhibit those traits to win or move forward in reality show competitions at the expense of those who may be strategists but exhibit negative traits (laziness, bigotry, general asshattery). Some prefer to see the most strategic players win, regardless of character. It's a complete YMMV, it's just how I approach it and why I root for some people and not for others. It's why I'm pretty excited about Kim, because it's very rare on this show to find a strategist who is not an ass or otherwise generally objectionable to me. Yul, Earl, Yau-man...not many others I can think of.


It's the Cockroach argument all over again, lol. As far as I'm concerned, what happened to Cockroach after he refused to pick the PROD for essentially the reasons you give, proves that he should've picked it and that the PROD in the right circumstance is actually the smartest move.


Not it doesn't. And for whomever drew the PROD, would that have "proved" that going to PROD was the wrong move? You can't use the results of a random drawing (or of not resorting to a random drawing) to prove anything.

If you're willing to go to PROD, it almost certainly means that you've screwed up somewhere along the way. Christina smartly thinks she can make her way further under the circumstances than 6th because she has plenty of time to see what happens and work the potential cracks in the alliance. Ultimately Jay was the only person who had nothing to lose by going to PROD, and he clearly thought he was quite safe.

#176

OurJames

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:38 AM

He says that when he doesn't want to tip his hand to Jeff or others. It's growing on me.

I intend to use it whenever possible as well. It's pretty good non-answer, because, you know, they're in a game, which is obviously still afoot.

#177

Holliday

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:17 PM

The consistent back and forth backstabbing and lying irritated me. It seemed like there was more of it than usual. The people are smart and have obviously seen the game, right? Hell, I'm a newer viewer. I've only seen about six seasons but even I know Survivor is like casual sex. You can't believe a word that comes out of anyone's mouth in that moment.
I always wonder how the game would be changed if everyone voted as they chose to without all the discussion and persuasion.

#178

bandita

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 1:12 PM

What's up with Probst not showing up. This is not the first time this season that he has bailed(or am I thinking about last season)

Is this a trial to see how they are going to handle him having to jet off for his talk show??
Or is this a new element a mastermind has injected to unsettle the game?

As in ...the Rooster took over the MCing and the jealousy ensues. I would have loved to see how everyone reacted to Colton MCing it.

And what about the hints that could be given out in the game by the MC to help that person's team..because we know Peachey is always stirring the pot during a challenge.

#179

Haleth

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 1:21 PM

I reaaaally appreciate that Kim and her crew are not gloating about being in charge. They are not being mean about who is "in" and who is getting the boot. How refreshing is that? They are like the polar opposites of Colton in this respect. That makes them a majority to root for IMO and will take whoever is left at the end hard to beat. None of the guys seem the type to carry hard feelings for long.

Still, in one thing Kim is absolutely correct, she can't risk letting any of the remaining men get to F3, even Greg. She personally will have more success with all the men and fewer women on the jury. All the women who have been assuming they are going to the end with Kim might hold a bigger grudge.

About Kim saying she was nervous at TC. I think she was just letting the men know that she knew her name had come up. It wasn't so much false modesty as an acknowlegement that someone of the guys was going to write her name down. (Which probably wasn't a good idea, letting them know she was on to them.)

Perhaps we'll actually see two good players who dare to go head-to-head in the FTC. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

Yes! And if Chelsea continues to win challenges, it will be Yul & Ozzy all over again.

Actually, if I were on the jury I'd give the game to Colton's virus.

#180

BurnXFreeze

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 1:34 PM

About Kim saying she was nervous at TC. I think she was just letting the men know that she knew her name had come up. It wasn't so much false modesty as an acknowlegement that someone of the guys was going to write her name down. (Which probably wasn't a good idea, letting them know she was on to them.)

It came across to me as a subtle way to underscore her position in the game and her awareness of what was going on without actually saying anything that would inflame her opponents and attract attention.

But it's hard for me to know how much is Kim's plan and how much is a positive byproduct of Kim playing it cool. In the end, the difference is probably academic.