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3-15: "Big Brother" 2012.04.10 (recap)


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#181

SallyS

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:22 PM

[Finn] didn't just say it was for him, he genially thought, based on the advise given to them by a "successful" adult actor that LA would be the best way for her to reach her dream. So while, yes, it was a selfish move on his part, it wasn't completely selfish, he was thinking of her too.

[I don’t think he was]. If it was about her, he wouldn't have gotten mad and ragged on her for being selfish when she explained to him she had no interest in being on TV and New York was where her Broadway dream was. He would have said, "oh, ok, I guess I was wrong about what you wanted. I was just trying to think of you." This had nothing to do with her. It was about him. He was desperately clinging to any sense of purpose for his life anyone offered him. When he decided his meaning in life could be chasing MILFs with Puck, he tried to "sell it" to her. It wasn't remotely about her.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 4:22 AM.
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#182

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:34 PM

I really, really liked this episode. Did I think it was brilliant television? Nope. It wasn't particularly well-written or Emmy-worthy, but I found it entertaining and fun to watch. I only cringed twice, instead of throughout the episode, and that's an achievement considering tripe like On My Way. That episode kinda broke me in a bady way with regards to Glee, and I find my enjoyment of the show right now completely depends on how much I'm serviced as a fan. I can't find it in me to care about two-thirds of the characters on this show anymore, so give me a plot that revolves around a favorite character, dial the offensiveness down to a 7, and I'm good.

I have to say that I'm a big fan of Quinn, and I've always wanted her to have lighter storylines, but it occured to me this episode that she's possibly the one person where I dig the angst of the character. I did want something weightier for her, and besides the scene on the ramp with Artie, most of it felt like it was skimming the surface. It wasn't bad, but much as I liked the direction they took with her being positive about the whole thing, I didn't find myself invested in any of it. I kinda like Teen Jesus, but I cringed when Quinn referred to herself as a self-obssessed bitch and he told her it was cool. Ugh. Yet, I didn't particularly want to suffer through her crying and angsting over the whole thing and bringing the tone of the show down further (I HATED On My Way. HATED it. Heavy material, offensive writing, character I loathe) so mostly I just wish they'd stay away from the preachy stuff.

I thought the first Puck/Finn scene felt off, like hey, I haven't seen you guys interacting in a while, and it felt unnatural, but I loved the one at the pool. I'd gladly watch a spinoff of Finn/Puck in LA even though I've reached borderline hate with Finn as a character due to Finchel. Seriously, they would be so much fun together. It'd be probably pale in comparison to other buddy-buddy shows we have, but still. Better than the usual on Glee.

I think Rachel is right to hold on to her dream, and it's Finn's issue that he hasn't figured out his shit yet. He's well in his right to think of himself and what he wants and needs, but the whole thing proves more than ever how terribly unsuited they are for each other. He has no business expecting Rachel to accommodate him when she's dreamed of NY since forever. Just,stay away from each other.

Sue - I thought she was fun this episode, but as much as I like how she spices up things and plots, I'm not particularly interested in stuff revolving around her.

I liked all the Blaine stuff. It was a lot, but hey, I love the character, and I'm going to enjoy what I get unapologetically since I have to sit through so much stuff that I don't. As a fan, I'm glad they didn't try to squeeze a thousand plots into one episode. Cooper was a hoot, and managed to out-Blaine Blaine, explaining so much about him in the process. I liked the whole teen angst aspect about it, I did find it a little ridiculous, but the ridiculousness was what made it more enjoyable for me. I thought Matt and Darren had fantastic chemistry and Blaine/Cooper is another spinoff I wouldn't mind watching. Loved the Kurt/Blaine/puppy scene as well and Kurt being so transparent about what was going on in that head of his while watching Blaine and Cooper. Screw baby penguin, he absolutely writes bad porn and posts it anonymously on the internet.

Somebody That I Used to Know definitely had an incestuous vibe and Cooper asking Blaine if they weren't just brothers didn't help things, but I liked the uncomfortable aspect of it all in terms of their relationship as brothers. Those are some super touchy-feely brothers, and while I guess that Cooper's just oblivious, Blaine obviously laps it up. He caved in so easily in the end, just like he did with Finn. Blaine's dependent on his brother's opinion in a way that he shouldn't be, and that colours a lot of his interactions with other people, with the need for approval and being self-critical.

Basically, I really enjoyed this episode and would enjoy more like it. I'm happy to be rid of the preachy, angsty stuff and have the crack that got me invested in the show in the first place.

#183

AwesomeWelles

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

Quinn's PSA about walking and texting annoyed me, until I saw the video of the guy texting who walked INTO A BEAR. I still hate everything about her though, and honestly, the amount of people who die in car crashes and she survives - she truly is Satan.

I didn't mind all the Blaine, and I definitely didn't mind the massive homoerotic/incestuous scenes between Bomer and Criss. I loved Santana's face during the Duran Duran song - she's far too ace for Glee.

#184

DEM

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:56 PM

sparklegem, I believe that was Rachel. I'd lay good money on it. I loved that bit.

#185

SinkWriter72

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:19 PM

Laughed my ass off at Matt Bomer's antics. He was fantastic and so over the top. (Full disclosure: I've been a fan of his since Traveller, Chuck and his current series White Collar, so this was just icing, getting to see him play like this. He looked like he was having so much fun.)

Side note: I read a brief interview with Bomer in which he said when he goes back to filming White Collar, he's going to make sure he does lots of finger pointing and he'll start wearing earplugs because now he knows that he doesn't have to pay attention to his costar Tim DeKay. LOL.

I also read an interview with Darren Criss, in which he said that this was Blaine's big episode, a chance for him to have a story, and that the rest of the season's episodes are supposed to focus on the graduating class.

I can't defend Blaine -- at least, not impartially -- because I'm a middle child and I can recall many a time when people would stop my mom on the street to point out how beautiful my older sister's naturally red hair was, all the while never saying a word about me, which made me feel like the ugly younger sister with boring dishwater blonde hair. I also had all my sister's teachers 2 years after she had them, so I was always 'expected' to do as well as she did on everything, which I tried hard to do but such an expectation really wasn't fair. So... I'm on Blaine's side. I didn't find his reactions implausible or whiny. But like I said, I'm a middle child, so... I'm not unbiased here.

Regarding Quinn. I felt like the writers jumped ahead in a bizarre way. I had trouble with the leap in time line to well beyond the big crash. I think it was a wasted opportunity for drama, for all the kids. But then, I suppose they don't want the rest of this season to get bogged down with too much heaviness when they probably want to keep the focus on the glee club competition and the graduation of various seniors. Perhaps then they shouldn't have gone with such a heavy-duty storyline, if they didn't have the time to follow through with some decent continuity. At any rate, like others here I saw Quinn's 'sunny' outlook about her situation to be a front, and I will be very surprised if she doesn't have a meltdown soon. She can't keep up that energy for long, especially with Artie pushing her like that. We'll see what the writers have planned, I guess.

I found Rachel to be frustrating in this episode. I get that she's wracked with guilt, but 1) Quinn told her that the fault lies solely on Quinn for doing the actual texting while driving, 2) Quinn didn't want all that drama and had already asked that much of her friends. Rachel's allowed to be upset for the plight of her friend, but dumping it on Quinn when she has enough to deal with is pretty lousy. Talk to Finn, talk to Kurt, talk to your dads, whatever. Just don't act like Quinn's responsible for your emotions and comforting you. When Quinn told her to "come here," I hoped it would be so she could punch Rachel in the arm (or the nose) and tell her to knock it off.

[snip] I think what [Finn] said in that final scene was spot-on. Rachel's very very focused about what she wants in her life, which is her right, but she's demanding a lot of him without much thought for his goals in their partnership. It's all about how she needs him in order to do what she wants. I don't often hear her talking about what he wants, or what she wants for them together. And she did try to dissuade him from being a mechanic in Burt's shop, helping to run the business. She told him to keep his options open, but her tone was pretty clear (at least, to me) that she thought such a job was out of line with her own goals and she considered her goals the priority. That's her prerogative, but it's Finn's prerogative not to follow her blindly. If they're supposed to get married, and if she's declaring that she can't do it without him by her side, then shouldn't she give a damn about the two of them deciding things together? It's like she's got a vision of Finn and what role she sees him playing in her big "I'm going to be a star" fantasy, and she refuses to think about anything peripheral to that dream, whether it's plausible or not.

I didn't think Finn was out of line, making the L.A. suggestion. I do think he's insane to go into business with Puckerman -- Finn's brains, seriously?? -- but I didn't think his thought process about Rachel being able to find performance work out there was out of line. Yes, Rachel has been pretty adamant about her goals involving New York and Broadway, but as others in this forum have pointed out, she's also said in the past that she'll do 'anything' to be a star, and she also lapped up everything Cooper Anderson was saying about head shots and agents and L.A. and TV, feverishly taking notes about it all. So it seemed to me like she might be open to trying it all. At least, I could see Finn thinking that, if he were watching her getting all excited about Cooper's presentation. And she did come bounding up to Finn, excitedly asking him what he thought of her scene work, so I'm not surprised he thought she might get into the idea of going to L.A.

Personally, I don't think they belong together. Not at this time, anyway. She's got her goals, and he's got a variety of his own possibilities (managing Burt's shop, going to L.A. to run a business with Puck and maybe play drums in a band on the side?), so they're probably better off pursuing their own goals at this time. They're holding each other back.

P.S. Did anything happen in this episode after Blaine was in the shower? It wasn't any major scene, but I seem to have trouble remembering anything after seeing wet, sexy shoulders. (I'm a 'notice nice shoulders' kind of girl. Among other things.) *GRIN*

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 4:30 AM.
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#186

HLine

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:20 PM

As far as I can tell, Finn is talking about throwing out the plan to follow Rachel and substituting a plan to follow Puck. Way to have your own dreams, Finn, especially since Puck's plan is more detailed on what Puck wants Finn to do (heavily imitate Puck, mostly). Rachel just wants him to be with her in New York, she's not trying to tell him what to do there. He might be happier if she had, because at least then he'd have a plan.

It's like Finn's suddenly decided that he's going to deal with feeling like he's not good enough for Rachel by trying to force her away from her dreams, make her an ordinary failure like he feels he is himself, or force her to dump him because she won't do that. (Mind you, some people do sabotage themselves and their relationships like that.) Except, of course, that he's repeatedly said (throughout the course of the series, including when they were broken up and otherwise barely speaking) that he really likes how she dreams big, she's definitely a star, and that he'll always support her in that. So when he asks her if she's in love with him or who she wants him to be, it's more whether she loves the him he thinks he is right now or the person he's always acted as. And he's also always loved how much she believes in him, so WTF on turning that around and making it a problem now.

If you consider what he said about her when he proposed, he's basically asking her not to be that person any more.

It's also possible that this particular change in Finn could sound less selfish, stupid, and petulant if the actual script (not necessarily the plot) had been different.

#187

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:32 PM

So when he asks her if she's in love with him or who she wants him to be, it's more whether she loves the him he thinks he is right now or the person he's always acted as.


That's not how I saw that question. I saw it as: does she truly love him, or does she love the idea of a guy on her arm, completing the picture in her head as she fulfills her big dream of becoming a superstar. Frankly, I'm not sure he's off base with that question. Rachel has every right to pursue her dreams; she's certainly spent all her life planning for them. But she has to decide if she's focusing on her own goals above all else, absolutely no wavering, or if there will be room amidst those goals for some compromise with the person that's supposed to be her partner. If she's more in love with having a boyfriend's (or fiance, or husband's) support while she conquers Broadway, without any consideration to what that partner wants, that's not a strong basis for a relationship.

Likewise, Finn needs to stop following everyone else. He's been riding on the idea of following Rachel to New York, or following Burt's footsteps in managing the garage, and now possibly following Puck to L.A. I think he's afraid to take a good look at himself and what he wants to do (and right now is simply one of those people who doesn't have a clue what they want to do and may need more time to figure it out, possibly by traveling or trying some local college classes in various subjects or seeing what fits first).

I think they need to take a break and focus on their own individual goals for a while, see where that takes them. If they end up back together somewhere down the line, then good for them. But somehow I'm thinking it's doubtful, given how differently their paths seem to be going and what's best for each character.

Edited by SinkWriter72, Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:46 PM.


#188

Knight Dynus

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:44 PM

Clearly, there is no way for both Rachel and Finn to be right in this argument. [/sarcasm] but they both are. Finn has every right to suggest things that he wants to do with his life. Rachel has every right not to budge from her dream.

Rachel lapped up everything Cooper said, so it's really not so far fetched to see Finn connect point A (Rachel wants to be a star) to point B (LA is where one goes to became famous according to successful actor's advice) to get to C (Going to LA with Rachel would make both of us happy). Plus, I honestly don't think Finn was turned on by the idea of chasing cougars- he looked so uncomfortable at the idea. But I think he just latched on to the idea of the future Puck suggested, because it was something, and was something he could do. And like I pointed out, he put Rachel into the equation too, and based it on what he saw over the course of the episode.

[snip] Rachel is a selfish person at times, but at this time I don't think she is for not budging on her dream. I don't like that she responded with Emotional blackmail ("I can't do this without you by my side") but overall, no, it's not selfish of her to not give up on her dream.

So no, she said if that is what he really wanted to do then great but she thought he was better than that. She wasn't being mean she was just saying she thought it wasn't really what he wanted to do and obviously it isn't. So know she didn't shoot it down. She wasn't being selfish she was thinking of him and what he really wanted which isn't taking over Burt's shop cause he wants out of Lima and has said so repeatedly.

[It] looked to me that Finn was happy with the idea but the moment she disapproved he discarded it. That and her tone during that scene was very condenscending. I can imagine Rachel being okay with a football player boyfriend- and hey, remember that time last season where she told Finn she was happy he wasn't on the football team?- or a boyfriend in the army, as there's a certain prestige that goes with both. But have her not be 100% behind a boyfriend who was a mechanic in Ohio. She wants a boyfriend who is on par with her, it's been her thing since the second episode. She wants to be the leading lady dating the leading man; it's part of the reason she developed feelings for Finn as he was the leading male in the club who could keep up with her, it's why she was happy when Finn was kicked off the football team (it was something to the affect that they were now on the same level of popularity now) why she was attracted to Blaine ("I might get a boyfriend who can keep up with me vocally") and there is nothing wrong with that. But Finn is not that person, he was the past two seasons, but the moment he proposed to her saying that she was the only good thing going for him he stopped being a leading man, and became her supporting character. And now that he's suggesting other things I think/hope she's beginning to realize that he's no longer her leading man.

And it's important to realize that it's okay! Finn was right to question her on whether or not she loved him or who she wanted him to be. Because that's a valid question. Because Rachel Berry is running Rachel Berry's life, and is growing up and growing out of people, and if Finn happens to be one of those people, then fine. All that means is that she needs learn to let him go.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 4:32 AM.
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#189

Lessa90

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:55 PM

This episode was boring and I still don't like Blaine. Fighter was ridiculous and I laughed during the shower scene. Bring on the next ep.

Is it wrong that I assumed the biggest meta/subtext is that Cooper's acting style isn't really far off from the stuff Darren does on the show? All he needed was a reference to Derpy faces and it would've been pretty much on point


Lol, there are a bunch of people who thing that. Someone pointed that out Tuesday night so you're not wrong at all.

I thought the episode was boring and I still don't like Blaine. The only good parts of it were Matt Bomer and Quinn and Artie. I also liked the little Finn and Puck part. Fighter was terrible and that shower scene was completely unnecessary.

Yey, Finn/Puck scenes! Finn and Puck >>>>> Finchel OR Puckleberry as far as I'm concerned. They totally should go to LA together (not going to happen though, I'm afraid) and have their bussiness and then have a band on the side. Maybe Mercedes can go with them and be their singer


That would be kinda cool.

I do think it says something about him that without a drop support in his life or belief in him from a single person, he still has enough ambition to go for what he wants and try to make something of himself. He's not the type to sit around whining and crying about it (or proposing to people) when life disappoints him or things don't go his way. Which actually makes him more suited to the cutthroat world of show business and its many rejections, but ah, well. He's not a "star" like Finn. So long, Puck. Even your own creators never knew your worth.


Hmm...I've never thought about that before but I totally agree with all of this.

#190

Mr Pants

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:06 AM

I wish Darren Criss had taken Cooper's advice on asking the director whether a scene is supposed to be funny or serious before he started shadow-boxing on Fighter. What a waste of that song. I appreciate that they are giving Blaine a storyline of his very own, but the character still feels hollow. I honestly just think Darren isn't a very good actor. He's nice to look at, and he sings well, but he can't carry a scene.

But I loved: Kurt with the stuffed dog, and the brief shot of Brittany and Santana holding hands on the rollercoaster. Matt Bomer can come back anytime, as long as he does a lot of dramatic pointing.

I would totally watch an LA spin-off about Puck cleaning pools in LA.

#191

HLine

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:11 AM

I saw it as: does she truly love him, or does she love the idea of a guy on her arm, completing the picture in her head as she fulfills her big dream of becoming a superstar. Frankly, I'm not sure he's off base with that question.


I don't see any basis in Rachel's actions or words to support that interpretation (so if Finn means that, he's making a lot up). Rachel didn't previously want to have sex until she was 25 and had multiple awards, and her plan has never needed a man by her side, it was always about the roles she wanted to play and getting acclaim for herself. She wants Finn with her because she loves him. She even accepted his proposal at a time when she didn't think her Broadway dreams were going to come true, so I don't see how this is consistent with her wanting him for her plans for herself. However, it's possible that Finn might be happier if Rachel did have a plan for him, if she had worked out a career for him. Since she has left his career aspirations up to him, all he sees in her plan for him is that he'd be there, and doesn't clue in to the fact that she expects that he'd be doing something meaningful for himself as opposed to just what she tells him to do. One can see how he managed to date the dictatorial Quinn twice, she was only too happy to tell him exactly what to do. And Quinn wanted him basically as a man on her arm (for Prom and other rule-the-school things), so maybe his expectations are coloured by that. But Rachel's never been like that, she's just always wanted him.

As for

She wants to be the leading lady dating the leading man; it's part of the reason she developed feelings for Finn as he was the leading male in the club who could keep up with her


I've never interpreted their exchange in Showmance that way -- I see it as she's attracted to Finn and is reaching for an opening. Even when Rachel was with Jesse, it was Jesse, not Rachel, who talked about the stage power couple stuff. And, as mentioned, Rachel was more comfortable when Finn wasn't on the football team, she didn't need him to be high-status and was more concerned about getting to keep him.

Speculating the self-sabotage angle: Finn feels inferior, like he isn't worthy of Rachel and the belief she has in him, and subconsciously he's trying to break either their relationship or her (bring her down to his level and/or she loses the quality he loves in her).

Well, not the other two, but she did shoot down the mechanic idea by telling him he was better than it way back in the beginning of the season. So, yeah, she has, once shot down an idea of his.


That exchange ends with Finn calling Rachel the best girlfriend ever. So if that was her shooting down an idea of his (and she did say "if it would make you happy" when he asked her about it) then he certainly didn't think so at the time. How awful, to have the person you love believe in you.

Edited by HLine, Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:32 AM.


#192

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:17 AM

[snip] I definitely do not see the Finn/Rachel relationship the same way that you do. I think their relationship is messed up on both sides. Finn needs to choose his own path rather than leaning so hard on Rachel, but Rachel's motives for their relationship aren't entirely pure or golden either.

Also, just because Finn called Rachel the 'best girlfriend ever' doesn't mean he's right. He wanted to believe she was looking out for him and cared about the direction of his life. That's good, and she probably thought she was, but deep down I don't think that was Rachel's full goal. In that moment, she wasn't looking out for his interests. She was looking out for hers, or the big picture of what she wants to see in her life (Superstardom on Broadway, equal partner on her arm, not a mechanic who once had dreams of getting out of LIma but has started to think smaller because it fits him better). Her view that Finn is 'better than that' was condescending to me, not supportive, and it was insulting to people who provide well for their families (including how Burt provided for Kurt, as we've seen) by doing manual labor. Especially that she made such a comment right in Burt's place of business. Disrespectful.

Like Knight Dynus said above, "Finn has every right to suggest things that he wants to do with his life. Rachel has every right not to budge from her dream." But that also means in both of them making those choices, they may not be meant to stay together.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 4:33 AM.
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#193

sorel

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

And brotherly love/hate does not merit 3 songs. It barely merits one. I am an older sibling and it isn't all sunshine and rainbows up here either. Keeping siblings in check, making sure their egos don't overgrow, correcting them every step of the way, turning them into the people we would like to hang out with on occasion... it is hard work. But I wouldn't necessarily sing 3 songs about it. Not if I only had 40 minutes... maybe over the last 26 years, yes, but 40 minutes?

Interesting perspective on the merits of sibling love, kinda like Cooper's with no songs.

I really, really liked this episode. Did I think it was brilliant television? Nope. It wasn't particularly well-written or Emmy-worthy, but I found it entertaining and fun to watch.

Same here. Just watched the episode and thoroughly enjoyed the enjoyable parts, didn't mind the rest.

[snip]

The scenes with young Blaine were pretty lightweight and in a standalone story won't stand to show a pattern but side by side with a Quinn in a wheelchair possibly forever, it was a small mercy not loading up on tragedies.

Blaine songs: don't care for Aguilera/Fighter either way so could do without it. The duets were good, especially the mashup. Both guys were having fun with it, we got great reaction shots to boot (Santana's was a meta-gem which I'll treasure forever). The Gotye number - I've stopped caring if a song is textually matched with the situation long ago but there was a similarity of emotion in both song and story. It worked as a shorthand for a one-shot relationship story and Darren and Matt did a good job there. With Glee, not being a purist is one way to cope if one can help it. Having to sit through Kurt going to the god squad and all the rest of OMW, this is extremely small potatoes.

Matt Bomer was great - hilarious and droolworthy in one neat package. Since I first saw him on Traveller, he's been able to pull various characters and look the perfect amount of dreamy as required. Cooper was absurd in a somewhat realistic way, and that's the best way for Glee. My sophomore year we had a Cooper moment with a substitute teacher who was so hot that anything she said was instant wisdom - about which we had a laugh at the reunion. Getting a time perspective cannot be overestimated enough.

Quinn: I was uneasy with her gung-ho cheeriness until the denial aspect became clear, glad there was something there and not a random beautific Quinn, I just wish Dianna could pull it off. The senior skip had a nice point-counterpoint with the skaters and Up Up Up. I'm Still Standing I appreciated for the sentiment if not for the song itself (Fighterlevelfeelings). The PSA dialogue was so clunky though, way to make it effective.

Sue: scheming yet sobering about a possible Down's baby (if I got it right). Next to Quinn, rather poignant for the way life serves curveballs. I'm curious what's to become of both which is rare with these characters but that's to make up for a zero-level suspense about the Finn-Rachel of it all.

Puck: [snip] It is good to see him pragmatic about his future, in a bumbling kind of way. He falls back on what he knows works for him and is not having delusions of grandeur, though relying on Finn's brains is a tall order. Good to see both of them talking about the future though. I'm all for Puck and Finn's adventures in CA vs Rachel and Kurt in NYC. Separate and equal I say.

Best non-Bomer moment: Piano man when Sue throws Mercedes' phone.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:27 AM.
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#194

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:41 AM

sorel, what did the Piano Man do when Sue threw Mercedes' phone? I missed that reaction!

P.S. to someone who posted the question up-thread about what Becky said to Sue -- Becky told Sue that she needs to work on being more patient.

#195

totallybff

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:45 AM

Sure, Finn has every right to go after whatever his dreams are, but just as people are saying Rachel is accountable to Finn because she accepted his proposal, Finn needs to consider Rachel in whatever half-assed dreams he's cooking up because he proposed to her (NY being part of the deal). Cleaning pools in LA with Puck is utterly stupid, and Finn decided on a whim to drop this LA idea on Rachel. He didn't even give her a chance to process it before he got defensive and accusatory. Finn's a complete doofus for thinking his half-baked idea should mean Rachel forgo college in NY. She's been Broadway and NY bound for the duration of their relationship. They're both immature, but Finn's a tool to ask that of Rachel. It's one thing if Finn had any solid plans like college or even a real job opportunity. He's asking Rachel to give up everything she's worked for on some stupid idea he's had for 24 hours.

#196

HanatheWreck

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:48 AM

Quinn's PSA about walking and texting annoyed me, until I saw the video of the guy texting who walked INTO A BEAR. I still hate everything about her though, and honestly, the amount of people who die in car crashes and she survives - she truly is Satan.


Wait, what? That sounds terrifying/amazing. If they'd followed her random, tonally weird PSA with that clip I would've totally forgiven them. Don't text and walk, guys, you might get eaten by A BEAR. This stuff needs to reach the teen demographic.

Also, considering how heavily Christian Quinn is, that would be an awesome twist.

I'm really bummed they didn't show even a little more damage from the crash, especially if they want us to buy that it hasn't been that long. I don't think they're even pretending Quinn will be stuck in that wheelchair forever. This is probably why some people are reading Artie as being a bit of an ass to her. I think it is projection, mixed with a bit of trying to make her face facts. The problem is making us care about that and see the actual character motivations. Glee does not have a good track record with this.

I think RedRumVines hit the nail on the head. It's too superficial, so the drama feels unearned. Same with Blaine, but mostly by the misstep of playing that story alongside another inherently worse drama that they then had to underplay to even it out!

Equally:

I kinda like Teen Jesus, but I cringed when Quinn referred to herself as a self-obssessed bitch and he told her it was cool. Ugh.


I actually saw that more as a 'don't worry about it, rant away' response as opposed to him agreeing that she was being self obsessed. I was totally on board with this scene right up until 'you're inspiring!', which was hamtastic, even for Glee.

I changed my mind about the Finn/Puck spin off. Send Rory with Puck instead. He's totally a horndog, so it makes sense.

I see the Rachel and Finn romance as inherently doomed, so, I think they are mutually refusing to face up to each others futures. Neither's being worse than the other, really.

#197

sorel

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:50 AM

SinkWirter72, Pianoman fist up and gleeful

#198

SinkWriter72

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:51 AM

Finn's a complete doofus for thinking his half-baked idea should mean Rachel forgo college in NY. She's been Broadway and NY bound for the duration of their relationship. They're both immature, but Finn's a tool to ask that of Rachel.


And Rachel's a fool for putting all her eggs in one basket. She applies to one school only? She is so focused on New York and NYADA and Broadway or bust. What would she do if she didn't get into that school? Will she feel like her dream is over, without even trying other avenues? I think Rachel's in for some very hard lessons if she's going to be so inflexible. Not necessarily with Finn, but in her overall life and her life's choices and possibilities. It's good that she's so driven and focused, but if she thinks there's only one path for her, and only one way to get there, she's going to slam into a wall and break if it doesn't work out that exact way.

I really don't think Finn was totally foolish to put forth that suggestion to her. Like Knight Dynus said:

Rachel lapped up everything Cooper said, so it's really not so far fetched to see Finn connect point A (Rachel wants to be a star) to point B (LA is where one goes to became famous according to successful actor's advice) to get to C (Going to LA with Rachel would make both of us happy). Plus, I honestly don't think Finn was turned on by the idea of chasing cougars- he looked so uncomfortable at the idea. But I think he just latched on to the idea of the future Puck suggested, because it was something, and was something he could do. And like I pointed out, he put Rachel into the equation too, and based it on what he saw over the course of the episode.


P.S. Thanks, sorel. I totally missed that.

Edited by SinkWriter72, Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:54 AM.


#199

totallybff

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:03 AM

It doesn't matter that Rachel only applied to one school. I agree it's stupid to put her eggs in one basket, but Glee seems to believe two schools exist (Yale and NYADA). Applying to one school is a dumb way to handle college applications but we don't even know what she's going to do if she doesn't get in. I don't think that's the question. She's still NY bound and that was her deal when they got back together and it's never changed.
Cooper's acting class was very obviously a gag. Even if she was lapping up the acting class that doesn't change the basic premise that Rachel wants to go to NY and be on the stage. Finn posing the TV acting gig was Puck's idea anyway. He didn't come up with it himself, and Rachel pretty much right away said no to Hollywood. It isn't her thing. She SINGS. She wants to perform on stage. She wants to go to NYADA. Her dream roles are from Funny Girl, Oklahoma, etc. Finn knows this and deciding that it's not as important as his half-assed idea to go to california and becoming a pool cleaner. I think the most infuriating thing is Finn hasn't thought anything through, not for himself and definitely not for Rachel.

#200

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:06 AM

I think he thought she would have plenty of opportunities in L.A. It's not like there's nowhere to perform there, whether it's theatre, TV or film. They do have stages in L.A. It's not like he wasn't thinking at all. He was considering that she wanted to perform, and he thought this angle would give them both opportunities. It's not like he was asking her to drop all her performing dreams and simply become his pool girl.

Edited by SinkWriter72, Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:07 AM.


#201

SonnenblumeGirl

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:09 AM

All I can say about this episode is -- I liked the new Sue. And Becky's line where she says, "I heard you're having a girl."
Everything else? Not so much. Never thought I'd say that about an episode in which Matt Bomer (of all people) sings, dances, and looks mighty pretty (as always).

#202

totallybff

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:30 AM

I think he thought she would have plenty of opportunities in L.A. It's not like there's nowhere to perform there, whether it's theatre, TV or film. They do have stages in L.A. It's not like he wasn't thinking at all. He was considering that she wanted to perform, and he thought this angle would give them both opportunities. It's not like he was asking her to drop all her performing dreams and simply become his pool girl.


Even if this is something Rachel could consider, Finn is proposing she completely derail her actual plans for something that he came up with based on some ridiculous idea that Puck threw out. Finn changes his direction on his dreams so quickly it's giving me whiplash, and I hate that he put the what is he going to do on NY on Rachel. That should not rest on her shoulders. It's something they could discuss together, but it's something that Finn has to think about too. It's not all on Rachel.

#203

Sadie T

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:32 AM

Sure, Finn has every right to go after whatever his dreams are, but just as people are saying Rachel is accountable to Finn because she accepted his proposal, Finn needs to consider Rachel in whatever half-assed dreams he's cooking up because he proposed to her (NY being part of the deal). Cleaning pools in LA with Puck is utterly stupid, and Finn decided on a whim to drop this LA idea on Rachel. He didn't even give her a chance to process it before he got defensive and accusatory. Finn's a complete doofus for thinking his half-baked idea should mean Rachel forgo college in NY. She's been Broadway and NY bound for the duration of their relationship. They're both immature, but Finn's a tool to ask that of Rachel. It's one thing if Finn had any solid plans like college or even a real job opportunity. He's asking Rachel to give up everything she's worked for on some stupid idea he's had for 24 hours.

Yeah, all of this. Did Finn really expect Rachel to be like, "sure Finn! I don't want to be on Broadway anymore, it's not like I've been obsessed with the idea since I was a toddler and have been putting everything I have into making that dream a reality for the last 17 years... nope, I want to be the housewife of a pool cleaner in California! Take me away!" Does this boy even know Rachel?

I hope Finn's short-sightedness and immaturity is intentional and the writers are going to address it in the future and not just pawn this off as another "silly selfish girl" moment on Rachel's behalf because Finn is the one being selfish and irrational here. He really wants to follow Puck to California like the clueless little lost puppy he is, then go ahead but don't get mad at Rachel for wanting to make something of herself.

Her view that Finn is 'better than that' was condescending to me, not supportive, and it was insulting to people who provide well for their families (including how Burt provided for Kurt, as we've seen) by doing manual labor.

I believe Rachel's "better than that" comment in that scene was in reference to Finn settling, not to Finn working in the shop. Rachel was simply saying her boyfriend is better than settling on a career he's not passionate about just because he doesn't believe he can do anything that's not safe and predictable. [snip] [Judging from] Finn's reaction and adoration for her in the moment, and Finn's subsequent season long search to figure out what he actually wants because he realized it wasn't staying in Lima and working in the shop, I have to believe the writers were not writing Rachel as condescending there, but as having more faith in Finn than Finn has in himself… which has actually been established since season 1. [snip]

And Rachel's a fool for putting all her eggs in one basket. She applies to one school only? She is so focused on New York and NYADA and Broadway or bust. What would she do if she didn't get into that school? Will she feel like her dream is over, without even trying other avenues?

In one episode this season, I don't remember which, Rachel says she's going to NY whether she gets into NYADA or not so she has a back-up plan. While I too think it's silly to only apply to one school (if that's even the case, we don't know for sure), it does sound like Rachel plans on moving to NY and trying to make it on Broadway without college if she doesn't get into NYADA, so it appears she's already thought it through a bit. I'm sure she'd be crushed if she didn't get into the school of her dreams but it doesn't sound like it'd be the end of her dream.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:09 PM.
Tone, boards on boards


#204

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 2:51 AM

Wait, what? That sounds terrifying/amazing. If they'd followed her random, tonally weird PSA with that clip I would've totally forgiven them. Don't text and walk, guys, you might get eaten by A BEAR. This stuff needs to reach the teen demographic.


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=q2t4FfTiQOU

Oh, it is. The more I think about it, I'd have much rather Quinn be savaged by a bear.

#205

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 3:20 AM

Oh, it is. The more I think about it, I'd have much rather Quinn be savaged by a bear.


Oh man, the shocking twist in this years Glee finale: Finn, having decided to join Rachel in New York rushes to their wedding. He gets a text from Rachel asking "Where are you?!" and he begins typing his response, "I'm right outside!", turns a corner and BAM. He gets mauled by a bear.
Quinn, waiting at the door, points dramatically. "I warned you!"
End scene. I forgive Glee for everything.

Thank you for showing me that AwesomeWelles, I now totally understand the need for a 'don't text and walk' PSA!

#206

SinkWriter72

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 8:27 AM

[snip]
All I'm saying is what he was suggesting wasn't out of the realm of possibility for her, given that she seemed suddenly receptive to the whole L.A. scene after Cooper's visit. Finn was still saying perform, audition, find your dreams... just in a potentially different place. That's something he has the right to suggest or discuss with someone who's supposed to be his partner. Just as Rachel has the right to turn around and say, "That's really not where I see myself performing. The L.A. stuff was interesting, and maybe it will be a possibility down the line after I'm more established, but New York is still where I want to be for theatre."

I'm not saying Finn and pool-cleaning is some stellar plan. I'm saying that he had the right to put forth a suggestion for alternatives, so that both partners in a supposed relationship could find something rewarding. Rachel has every right to be laser-focused on New York, but once she decides to be part of a relationship, things can change (and may need to change). If she's refusing to be flexible in any way, then maybe being in a relationship is not for her at this point in her life. She should be focused on her career instead. Because relationships take work, and if she's going to look at it as "this has always been my dream and I will not be moved" then this might continue to be a huge stumbling block for them in their relationship. It cannot always be Rachel's way or bust, or they will have more and more fights down the road and possibly end up resenting each other.

[snip] I like Rachel just fine, and I think Lea does an amazing job with the role. But I don't think she's always the most unselfish character, and even though she sometimes talks a good game, seeming supportive (and sometimes she is), I don't think Rachel always stops to think beyond her own goals. There's nothing wrong with that, she has every right to focus on her career path, but sometimes she gets so laser-focused that she doesn't stop to think about what she's saying. Which can lead to her saying some inadvertently insulting or condescending things because what's happening is not in line with what she wants with her life, regardless of whether it's fair to the other person.

As others have pointed out, she told Finn he should drop football because it served her vision of their relationship, not necessarily because it was what was right for Finn. She told Finn he was 'better than that,' which I definitely saw as a negative either way you look at it. Because what's wrong with him going for a smaller dream? That might not be right for Rachel, her head is focused on the stars, but maybe it IS right for Finn, especially in light of not getting the kind of scholarship he wanted or because he may not have what it takes to go to a more professional level with football. I know she thought she was being supportive, but it was putting a lot of pressure on Finn to be 'bigger,' just because that's what Rachel wants for her life. But maybe that's not what Finn wants, and maybe it wouldn't be settling, not for Finn. After working in Burt's shop, he may have started to see the value of that work and felt it was rewarding to finally find something he was good at and could maybe handle, and it was probably a positive thing to feel like Burt trusted him enough to turn it over to him someday soon.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:10 PM.
Quoted post was deleted


#207

HLine

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 10:26 AM

I think [Finn] thought [Rachel] would have plenty of opportunities in L.A. It's not like there's nowhere to perform there, whether it's theatre, TV or film. They do have stages in L.A. It's not like he wasn't thinking at all. He was considering that she wanted to perform, and he thought this angle would give them both opportunities.


Admittedly there is so much crammed into the average Glee episode with respect to storylines and songs that there isn't much space for detailed development. But I see no evidence that Finn considered anything of the kind, he's just parroting Puck. And while we know in our universe that stage opportunities exist, we also know about a lot more than a handful of colleges, so I don't find it likely that either Finn or Puck know about what acting opportunities exist in LA aside from the meant-to-be-funny exaggerated stuff that Cooper was promoting (and if they knew about those other opportunities then they'd also know Cooper was full of it). There's a lot we don't know because it's not shown, including what Rachel thought about the army possibility; I'd like to think that if any of this stuff was actually important they'd put it into the show.

I find it interesting that Finn's blown up at Rachel twice now for not having a perfect reaction when his future comes up, and both times it's been based on what someone else said: Kurt for the "you should be doing more than holding Rachel's purse" bit, and now Puck with "why can't she change her dream so she can follow you to LA with me". And both times Rachel's not given much chance to talk herself, it's like Finn's filling in her reaction based on what the others have said and what he's been stewing on in the interim. Finn probably feels pretty bad about himself now that he's found out that even Puck has more plans for a future than he does (yeah, "go to LA, more pools and hotter cougars" is played for laughs, but it's not a bad plan for Puck, and at least Puck has one). Finn seemed to like the one independent idea about his future that he had (the army), much better than Burt's "filling in at the tire shop" suggestion at the time of Yes/No, until the army idea blew up in his face when he found out about his father. The entire season so far seems to set Finn up to be oversensitive about anything to do with his future. So I think it's likely that Finn is intended to be overreacting at Rachel here, while still showing that the whole "future plans" situation is a significant problem for them. Initial reactions aren't everything now, just as they weren't back when Rachel preferred Finn not play football (to keep him away from predatory cheerleaders) but recanted and supported him when she found out how important playing was to him. Hopefully Finn can do the same now with his own initial reactions to Rachel.

Those two obviously need to have a serious extensive talk where they listen to each other. But that's not the sort of thing that fits with the funny/serious/lots-of-songs tone of Glee, so who knows how it's going to shake out.

Edited by HLine, Apr 12, 2012 @ 10:47 AM.


#208

TWoP Howard

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:18 PM

Letís move on from the discussion of Finn and Rachel, please. You are repeating yourselves, and when that happens you should all be self-aware enough to stop on your own. The rule here is to make your point once or twice and then move on.

Also, just because you have deep feelings about this show and these characters doesnít mean that your opinions about them are facts. Some of you are laying down the law about the show as if you and only you have the keys to understanding it, or to explaining a characterís motivations. That comes across as if you think that the forum is here so that you can deliver your lecture to the class. This is a give-and-take discussion between many different but equally valid opinions, and you need to write as if you understand that. And for the love of God, donít lard your post with a bunch of IMOs or YMMVs, because all that will show me is that you need to read the rules of the site more carefully. Thanks.

#209

HLine

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 2:30 PM

Then here's something I did like about this episode: Sue.
She's been given a good motivation to actually help New Directions win Nationals (getting full control of the Cheerios back as her reward), so we don't have to worry that she's really conspiring against them on the sly again, and her insults seem more knowingly humourous (including her use of "sloppy babies" -- she seems to be laughing at herself a little in the delivery). I hope this keeps up.

#210

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 7:04 PM

This episode was better than "On My Way," I'll give it that. I suppose I liked quite a bit of it, but there were plenty of parts where I was cringing.

They dealt with the Quinn "reveal," if you can even call it that, terribly. I fully expected that the cliffhanger would turn out to have been manipulative and pandering and, well, looks like I was right.

I thought Matt Bomer was great as Cooper Anderson, but I thought the presence of Cooper Anderson was stupid and unnecessary. I also got whiplash from how seriously this show was taking shit in the previous episode to how this episode we're supposed to believe Cooper Anderson is successful at anything. Would Rachel think that was good acting advice? For real? Also, what did Cooper ever actually do to Blaine other than be kind of a dick, but not really, in this episode? The flashback to him stealing the toy was inane.

I thought Margaret Thatcher Dog and Kurt fanboying over Cooper Anderson were both really out of character for him, but that might just be because we still have almost no idea what Blaine and Kurt's relationship is like, since we never get to see it.

The advancement of the Rachel and Finn get married plot makes sense, but it doesn't feel like the show built to this point at all. Making it about Quinn's accident is just ridiculous. I loved the Puck and Finn subplot, though. It's nice to see that Puck actually does have some plans for himself after graduating, and that they don't involve fathering a child. I also think it's very realistic that Puck would try to talk Finn out of marriage to some extent, and I hope to see him influence Finn further in that regard.

Sue leading New Directions should have happened in season two, if not earlier. Journey was the perfect set up for that. I hope it sticks into season four--it solves a lot of problems re: keeping all the cast members' plots tied to the Glee club.

I had to fast forward the Six Flags commercial/senior skip day sequence. Way too stupid.

The song choices were abysmal! We've already discussed at length why "I'm Still Standing" was insensitive at best, why "Fighter" was just plain terrible (although Darren can feel free to get naked whenever he wants, preferably in my bedroom), and why "Somebody That I Used To Know" is ridiculously inappropriate for estranged brothers to sing to each other. The performances were usually good though, even if the context was questionable.

I really liked Quinn and Artie's chemistry. As ridiculous as I'm finding the whole enterprise, Dianna does seem to be handling the wheelchair material well, and she has more chemistry with Kevin than she's had with anyone else they've paired her up with, IMO.

UNFORTUNATELY, my prediction seems to be coming true, and Rock Me Sexy Jesus is going to stretch poor Quinnie's spine through the healing power of his magic straight white penis. That said, Sam Larsen is probably the most natural addition from The Glee Project (are we still getting Alex? It's getting late in the season for it) so far, so if Rock Me Sexy Jesus is here to stay long term, it could be worse. (They could also get him in the shower some time soon, yeah?)

Structurally the episode felt off. I've noticed that quite a bit lately, probably as far back as the season 3 premiere, and even into the back half of season 2: episodes just stop. They don't end, they don't climax, they don't really even have cliffhangers. Stuff happens for forty minutes and then it's over. The only reason I knew the episode was over this week was because they started shilling for iTunes. Write it off as yet another basic TV writing thing that the Glee room just can't seem to get a handle on, despite being paid professional writers of television.

Edited by swampy, Apr 12, 2012 @ 7:13 PM.