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2-2: "The Night Lands" 2012.04.08


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#181

Haldebrandt

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 9:54 PM

The White Walkers don't wake up every Winter. They, like direwolves, were believed to be extinct or even just a myth.

Not so with direwolves. There just weren't supposed to be any south of the wall.

Nothing in the show even directly says that there were ever direwolves south of the wall. But the Starks' adoption of the creature for sigil does suggest that possibility.

#182

agora

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:14 PM

I thought it was cute the way he was so concerned about language and, well, peeing in front of her.

That being said, I think the biggest reveal is not how Arya is a girl but how Gendry is being haunted because he's the last surviving son of Robert Baratheon. And that much? No one from that group has figured out yet.

Gendry is quite the charmer, apparently. He will make for an amusing Arya foil.

I would like to think they take it after their fathers, there's a reason Robert & Ned used to be so close and, now that they are both dead, I think its all sorts of endearing to watch the next generation growing close as well.

*ETA: It may not bring Ned or Robert back to life, but Arya and Gendry are as good as it gets IMO.

Edited by agora, Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:16 PM.


#183

lilymunster

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:24 PM

WatcherTina

What! Christopher Eccleston (a.k.a. the ninth Doctor) is far too cool and sexy to play Stannis!

Yay! Another CE admirer.....have you seen one of his older films called "Jude"? That's probably why I can see him as Stannis. Just my opinion though. (Warning, if you haven't seen it, not a "feel good" film).

Back to topic. Something that stuck for me this episode. That exchange between Tyrion and Varys, when Tyrion said (loosely quoted) "I'm not Ned Stark. I know how this game is played", gave me chills! Game on! I'm really starting to see the machinations of the King's Landing court that I loved in the books.

Edited by lilymunster, Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:41 PM.


#184

Styrofoam Tokyo

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:37 PM

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen raven?


Citadel Harbinger raven or Common Carrier raven?


Or what about an African raven?

#185

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:41 PM

Or what about an African raven?


Af-ri-ca? I know of no such colony in Westeros or Essos.

#186

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:42 PM

I really didn't like his line about enjoying watching women walking towards him, it seemed so un-Samlike and creepily sleazy to me.

He actually said "walking away" because apparently:

a) he's more into the, ahem, rear view;
b) he's had lots of women walk away from him.

I thought it said more about how he's never been good with the ladies, honestly, as also displayed by the conversation thereafter about the milkmaid (?), and led into the storyline about him wanting to rescue Gilly.

#187

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 11:45 PM

You have to figure a trip of a thousand leagues by horse is going to take at least 45 days, maybe more, especially when you have to be careful moving through war zones. If the raven just arrived, I imagine Thorne is still on his way.

But since raven messages have been shown to travel much, much faster than that, it just raises a different question: Why would Mormont send Thorne to deliver a message in person and then send a raven-o-gram weeks later that will get there before him and completely supersede his message? I suspect the real reason was not story-related but production-related -- because the writers either couldn't get the actor who plays Thorne for this episode or didn't think they had time to feature him.

It's a minor kludge, but I do find it somewhat troubling. It's one thing to streamline a plot point from the books; it's another to establish a plot point in the TV series itself and then take it back. One of the most fascinating things about the show is that it's so rich with tiny details that point to a larger world behind what we're seeing on screen; if those details can be upended at any moment for the sake of plot convenience, they become a lot less fascinating.

Would it have been too much trouble just to introduce the message with "Here's something a Night's Watch guy brought for the king the other day along with a weird dead hand"?

Edited by Dev F, Apr 9, 2012 @ 11:45 PM.


#188

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:31 AM

But since raven messages have been shown to travel much, much faster than that, it just raises a different question: Why would Mormont send Thorne to deliver a message in person and then send a raven-o-gram weeks later that will get there before him and completely supersede his message?

Redundantcy.

#189

Dev F

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:46 AM

Redundancy would be sending out a raven back when Thorne headed out in the first place, saying, "OMG, zombies! Our guy is coming with proof!" But such a message a) would've mentioned Thorne and b) would've gotten to King's Landing last season. (After all, it would've been sent before Ned got his head chopped off, and the message informing Castle Black of Ned's death took the exact same journey in the opposite direction and got there by the middle of the next episode.)

I can't think of a nonconvoluted scenario in which Mormont would've sent Thorne out, waited for weeks on end, and then sent a raven with the same story that didn't mention the messenger en route.

Edited by Dev F, Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:52 AM.


#190

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:00 AM

When Cersei was giving those lines after "You're funny", and I watched Tyrion's reaction, that hurt ME! Goes to show how fine the acting was. I'm really feeling this show.

Did anyone else get the impression that Lena Headey forgot her line in that scene, and that "You're funny!" was ad-libbed? Dinklage kept his composure and the scene went on, but I thought that blurtout and smile was soo unlike Cersei, and so very much like Lena Headey.

Edited by lemonparty, Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:01 AM.


#191

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:39 AM

But since raven messages have been shown to travel much, much faster than that, it just raises a different question: Why would Mormont send Thorne to deliver a message in person and then send a raven-o-gram weeks later that will get there before him and completely supersede his message?


There's another reason why Thorne was sent south. When in episode 9 Jon gets all emotional after receiving the ancestral sword from Lord Mormont, he says: "I'll apologize to Ser Aliser tonight". And Mormont replies that he won't as he sent Thorne to KL to deliver the proof about dead rising and adds at the end: "And it puts a thousand leagues between you and Thorne", and Jon, Mormont and us viewers smile subtly at it and exchange this wink-wink moment to each other.




On the other hand, this is what looks like a "plothole" to me:

I really wonder if the three men in the cage are worth the trouble for the Night's Watch. Two of them look as if they'd slit anyone's throat on a moment's notice without any cause. Therefore, I presume the calm looking one who asked Arya for a drink is just as bad if not worse. I know the Night's Watch can't be too choosy, but I'm not sure these 3 even meet the minimum standards.


So, story needs some dangerous prisoners travelling with Arya and Gendry, so dangerous that everyone is advised not to go near them, but damn, Nightwatch certainly doesn't need them. So what's the plan, Yoren, you'll keep them caged in a kitchen in Castle Black while throwing potatoes towards them to do some peeling. I get a feeling they would just eat them raw and threaten the cook with a peeling knife through the bars.

Edited by Ramsay, Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:40 AM.


#192

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:57 AM

"All I can say to that is eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!"

It is worse than that. I didn't realize what was on her chin until others on this board pointed it out and it isn't that I'm naive. The, ummm, substance, wasn't white. Not even off white. Somewhere in the range of peach. The color disgusted me far more than if it had been just a bit of Westerosian bukkake.

#193

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 3:17 AM

Af-ri-ca? I know of no such colony in Westeros or Essos.


Then where do all the coconuts come from?

#194

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 3:34 AM

Then where do all the coconuts come from?


In Westeros coconuts are a rare and precious commodity

That's why we get so few horse scenes, no coconuts to provide clop-clopping

#195

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 5:57 AM

Then where do all the coconuts come from?


As much as I hate to get serious about a joke, my inner pedant is jumping up and down. There's a continent south of Essos called Sothoros. Map here.

#196

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 6:07 AM

Did anyone else get the impression that Lena Headey forgot her line in that scene, and that "You're funny!" was ad-libbed?


No, I thought Cersie's disarming smile was just that, a ploy to get Tyrion to let down his emotional guard before sticking in the knife, much like Littlefinger acting all concerned and understanding to weeping Roz before slipping in the threat. My sense is that Tyrion has known about Jamie and Cersie for a long time and Cersie knows he knows. He may even have made oblique references about it to her in the past (not that we ever saw that, but we did see him say something of the kind to Jamie in the series premiere.) I think what was going on in this scene was not Tyrion mocking her about knowing her secret but rather mocking her about her secret becoming such common knowledge ("From what I hear . . . " ) That's why Cersie is so mean. She doesn't care if Tyrion knows (he loves Jamie, her secret is safe with him). She angry because he is mocking her about the secret being brought out into the open -- so far into the open that he (and anyone else) can make crude jokes about it in passing.

So then the question becomes, why is he mocking her? Just to be mean? I don't think so. I think Tyrion is appalled that the secret is out, appalled by what it means for his family and for the realm. He's been sent to Kings Landing by his father "to rule" (which is a very big deal to him) and every time he turns around Cersie and Joffrey are making mistakes in "The Game" like killing Ned, losing Arya, and now killing Robert's bastards and thereby giving credence to Stannis' accusations. So Cersie is not just humiliated by her secret being in the open, she's also humiliated by Tyrion's jest because it is yet another way of reminding her that she keeps making mistakes and right now, she's the "disappointing child" in the eyes of their father. So, not a surprise that she attacks Tyrion with the biggest gun in her arsenal.

#197

Janjan

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 6:57 AM

Oh, and Yoren has definitely now earned the rank of BAMF.

Yeah!

I liked that he didn't even care why they wanted him. It was just, "Don't mess with my motley crew."

BTW, was that a different actor playing Joren? His hair was kinda brown/auburn, but it was black when he held Arya during the execution scene.

#198

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 7:06 AM

Also, underwhelmed by the casting for Stannis, he's not nearly dour enough. My dream choice? Christopher Eccleston.


What! Christopher Eccleston (a.k.a. the ninth Doctor) is far too cool and sexy to play Stannis!


I never got over the short-lived rumour that Eccleston was going to play Stannis. That rumour was being floated just as I was reading the series, and I started visualizing Stannis as Eccleston while reading, with the unexpected result that I started to find Stannis's character kind of appealing and actually was semi-rooting for him to become king. When the fog cleared from my brain with the reveal that Random Other Guy was actually hired to play Stannis, I realized Eccleston probably would have been a bad choice for that very reason ... I think it would be hard to sell him as the character with absolutely no charisma. But I still wish CE was on my screen every week.

#199

Jporr0121

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 7:33 AM

So... can all the men in the Game of Thrones universe get insta-boners, or just the characters we're following?

#200

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 7:33 AM

From the Unsullied thread:

Memo to Mormont: Enough with the silly excursion, which looked so momentous in S1E10. Come on back to meet your new recruits

I have to say they are boring me as well, for all I found the random chatter between the Night's Watch men fairly amusing. It's been two episodes and only short scenes (if not as short as Dany's, which for some reason I am more accepting of the glaicial pace for now), but I'm bored with them hanging around Craster's already, as we know it is so close to the Wall that it feels like a waste of their time. Unfair I know, but I liked seeing Jon last year, but at the moment it just isn't interesting; by contrast, I was actually interested seeing Bran's tiny scenes last week, and I didn't care last year or in the books.

Edited by kieran555, Apr 10, 2012 @ 7:34 AM.


#201

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:03 AM

My only complaint is my absolute boredom with the sexposition scenes. They weren't compelling last season and they aren't getting any better. Does HBO really think for a single moment these are critical to drawing in viewers? I am all for some nudity and knocking boots in the service of the story, but these scenes are so freaking tedious. Sigh.


I think that HBO overdoses on the sex and nudity because they can. They seem to have the mentality of we can push the envelope, so let's bloody well push it as often as we can. These scenes are neither sexy nor erotic and this episode in particular had more than usual. I think another aspect of the sex scenes that grosses me out is when I think about the hygiene, or more accurately,lack of, that people of that era had. Just imagining oral sex and no bathing is truly gag-inducing.

Edited by bolistoli, Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:03 AM.


#202

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:09 AM

Finally got to watch the episode (darn ole holidays interrupting my viewing times) – and yes, I did give a squee of delight when I saw that The Pyke was added to the clockwork map.

On the whole I thought the episode was better than last week but still horribly uneven; it seems to be taking a while for season two to find its pacing/footing.

I really liked the scenes with Arya and her journey with the Night Watch; I thought those scenes, in addition to being very pretty, were well written, acted, and really set up a lot. For his tiny scene, Jaqen H’ghar was very effective.

I thought Peter Dinklage was golden in all his scenes; I especially loved the one with Lena Headly (who is doing a fantastic job thus far). The one with Conleth Hill was excellent as well … lots of subtext and direct text in that scene.

Balon Greyjoy and the Iron Islands continue to be as awful on screen as I remembered from the books (though I thought the set was gorgeous). I could have done without the ship exposition scene and thought the TV show handled the introductions of Theon back to his homeland and meeting with his sister extremely well.

I think Liam Cunningham is perfection as Davos as is Stephen Dillane as Stannis. I continue to love the Dragonstone Table even if it was used for inappropriate sex.

I just don’t know what to make of that entire Littlefinger in the brothel scene; what was the point other than to let us know Littlefinger uses the brothel for spying (we knew that already) and that he values money.

The two weakest elements were Dany and Jon (not surprisingly as I find that Harrington and Clarke leave a lot to be desired in the acting department) which is sad because book Night Watch is my favorite plot line after the political intrigue that is King’s Landing. Dany’s one scene seemed so out of place and a huge distraction from the rest of the show that I think it could have been better served to leave it out entire and add it to an episode that is more Dany-centric. The only thing that saved the Night Watch plot was Sam.

#203

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:42 AM

Janjan:

BTW, was that a different actor playing Joren? His hair was kinda brown/auburn, but it was black when he held Arya during the execution scene.


Same actor, perhaps using a different wig. He's on a show my son watches, "House of Anubis." He plays the villain so it's amusing to see him in this role. I shout "Victor!" every time he's on screen. I hate him on House of Anubis, he's very one-note swirly mustache type of villain. But I adore him on GoT and I'm thrilled to see he's really a great actor.

Also, the actor who plays Lancel is on House of Anubis. He plays a character named Jerome and is the complete opposite of who he plays on GoT. On House of Anubis he's the arrogant, jokey, popular, good-looking guy. I showed my son the clip of King Robert chewing out Lancel about the wine and my son couldn't believe it was the same actor. Another one who has impressed me.

#204

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:46 AM

My only complaint is my absolute boredom with the sexposition scenes. They weren't compelling last season and they aren't getting any better. Does HBO really think for a single moment these are critical to drawing in viewers? I am all for some nudity and knocking boots in the service of the story, but these scenes are so freaking tedious. Sigh.



I kind of like them, mostly because they remind us of the setting and highlight certain aspects of characters. Whether it is a whorehouse (where Littlefinger spies on his clients and his whores) or a ship's cabin (where we are reminded of Theron's issues with women and his overall douchiness), the sex scenes often call out important character traits. Stannis and the redhead was the most blase one for me, though it did show that even Mr. Formal and Correct is indeed susceptible to temptation. Also, the presence of these scenes, like some of the more horrible violence such as baby killing, remind me that this show plays for keeps and isn't a watered-down network series. And of course we have the constant reminders of how women are viewed in this society, even as women keep popping up in roles of power. In any case, the scenes take seconds in most cases. Which, if you think about it, is a slam on the men as well.

Edited by Westy8283, Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:47 AM.


#205

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:54 AM

Solid episode but not too much seemed to happen in this one.

I did kind of miss Sansa, Joffrey, Cat and Robb in this one.

Jon discovered what happened to the sons - I think the father sending them to the Wildings was an interesting move.

I liked Sam and Gilly's scenes together in this one. Sam has more common sense than Jon at times.

Cersei and Tyrion really do know how to hurt each other with such effect. Their scenes are still riveting to watch though. Joffrey being responsible for the hit wasn't too shocking.

Even when comforting someone, Littlefinger knows how to deliver a threat and Varys made a mistake in trying to threaten Tyrion. At least I know he made a mistake.

I could've done without seeing Stannis and Melisandre at it. Damn, that woman is a bad influence on Stannis.

Liked the scenes with Arya/Gendry and Davos/his son/that pirate.

Theon trying it on with his sister was another moment I could've done without and I want more than one scene of Daenerys and Jorah per episode, 8/10.

#206

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:00 AM

Long time lurker, first time poster, yay!

Too funny that one reviewer of this episode didn't quite catch the pirate's name, decided it sounded like 'Salad or Sandwich,' so that's what he's gonna call him from now on. Me, too! Poor Sallador Saan, you're Salad or Sandwich to me from this day til the end of days.

#207

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:05 AM

I actually feel sorry for Theon, his father was the one who gave him away because he LOST the battle!! And now he's like throwing it into Theon's face like it's HIS fault!! Theon should have yelled at him or something. If he's turned into a Stark it's his father's fault, not his.

You lost, Balon! You surrendered and handed over your only male heir, among the most important things for a lord, and promised to be a good little boy. Hypocrite.

Normally I don't like Theon, but the scenes with his father made me feel for him a bit. He thought he'd be given a hero's welcome home and instead had to hitch a ride up to the castle only to learn that his father thinks he's a womanly weakling because he didn't steal the clothes and jewels he was wearing.

I still don't like Theon, but I hate Balon even more. He gave up his only son after surrendering. You'd think someone as proud and judgmental as Balon would have gone the Dread Pirate Roberts route and shouted, "DEATH FIRST!" when faced with the prospect of having to surrender. His acquiescence is not Theon's fault. He was taken away as a child, so how was he supposed to keep all of his father's values if he was being raised by Ned Stark? Maybe that's why Balon dislikes Theon so much now - he is a constant reminder of his own failure. If his rebellion had succeeded, Theon wouldn't stand before him as a quasi-Stark in fancy clothes.

When I see Theon, for some reason I think that actor looks like a young Mick Jagger! Hard-living, dirty, and skinny.

Ha, this is the perfect description of Theon! I'd add to that walking around like he owns the place (despite the fact that he never really belonged with the Starks) and being a grimy sexual assault attempter whenever possible.

Until Littlefinger becomes Goldfinger

And then Goldfinger becomes Goldmember!

#208

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:11 AM

Until Littlefinger becomes Goldfinger

And then Goldfinger becomes Goldmember!

It's not from a movie, but might as well combine all of them to become Littlemember. It lacks subtlety, but then this is GoT, when they call the dwarf, 'Imp'.

Too funny that one reviewer of this episode didn't quite catch the pirate's name, decided it sounded like 'Salad or Sandwich,' so that's what he's gonna call him from now on. Me, too! Poor Sallador Saan, you're Salad or Sandwich to me from this day til the end of days.

Welcome aboard, Joliefaire. It is a funny name, and I have to say the actor was simply fantastic. I don't remember the character at all, but he was amusing, inciteful, with enough presence that you could see why Davos' son backed off when he made a pretense at making a move, and he also got very serious when it came down to brass tacks, about whether Davos believed Stannis could win. I certainly cannot recall to what extent we might see him again, but he's made the character memorable in just that brief scene.

Edited by kieran555, Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:12 AM.


#209

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:16 AM

It was intriguing to hear him talking about 'Paying the Iron Price'. The entire concept is very revealing about the entire culture of Iron Islanders. It is actually expected for Iron Men to kill people and plunder their bodies in order to obtain precious goods. This 'Paying the Iron Price' is actually deemed a more honourable and manly way to acquire goods as opposed to buying them.


I totally agree and find this really bizarre. On rewatching I couldn't believe that someone would find more honor in robbing a corpse of someone you killed than paying for something (presumably with gold that was earned not stolen). Balon is certainly an interesting character and I like the sister too but I think I get why Catlyn was so oppposed to Robb getting into bed with someone like him. Also if the men of the Iron Islands are such whores then what's Balon's deal, he looks like he's been rotting in that room since Theon left, does he not have the same voracious appetite as his son?

Also on rewatching I paid close attention to the scene at the end and I have thoughts. 1) You do see the eyes of White Walkers, similar to what you saw in the series premier, but when it comes to picking up the baby, you see more of a silhouette than an actual form-- but based on the noises etc I think that is who got the baby 2) the Night's Watch men wondered what Craster is doing right when all the other wildlings have fled-- he is giving them something (the male babies) so they will leave him and his homestead alone, which makes the whole home situation slightly less horribly gross, because what he is doing does allow them to survive (albeit in miserable circumstances).

#210

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:59 AM

So... can all the men in the Game of Thrones universe get insta-boners, or just the characters we're following?


Foreplay? What's that?

It does seem that every scene involves very quick stripping and then the dude's just pumping away.