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4-15: "A Short Story About Love" 2012.03.23


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#211

calguy2009

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Posted Mar 28, 2012 @ 8:47 PM

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial,]That's a very melodramatic and new agey-type of response, and it may be all well and good to [/font]you[font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial,], but it's meaningless to [/font]me[font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial,]. Yes, we [/font]are[font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial,] stuck with a refresh. It doesn't matter if Peter and Olivia remember, because none of the other characters do. They are all effectively strangers this season, which is what turned me off to the whole thing. Saying "it all happened" doesn't effectively mean anything, when the world they now exist in is a reboot. Walter, Astrid, Nina, Betty, Lincoln, Bell, all of the alternates, and the very world they exist in are completely foreign. [/font]


It's more quantum mechanics than new age.

#212

Ageha

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Posted Mar 28, 2012 @ 9:01 PM

I dunno, I just see it as a "wait until the season ends to make a final judgement". Not that I have a problem with anyone having a problem with it, but the fact of the matter is, we don't yet know what the final answer is going to be. We don't know who else will remember, if there's going to be some kind of merge, etc.etc. We actually really don't yet know that three seasons worth of character development and important events have been erased. I tend to view them as people I once knew whom I haven't seen in a few years. We haven't made the exact same journey with them, but they're supposed to be the exactly same people who'd have met Peter. They're mostly who they were, but have been slightly changed by their experiences/circumstances. I guess it's enough for me.

#213

CorwinOfAmber

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 9:08 AM

Love is THE prime motivator on Fringe, for both good and evil actions, and their consequences. Love is what made Walter cross over to kidnap and cure Peter, and what made him (and Elizabeth) and keep him here. Love for Peter is what anchored Olivia while she was Over There and brainwashed. Love for Olivia was Peter's prime motivator to create the Bridge, and prevent her death.

I can go through countless examples of minor characters. The scientist in "White Tulip", who traveled through time to die with his beloved. The zombie ballerina in "Marionette" was a result of twisted love. Ray in "And Those We Leave Behind". Mr. Burns in "A Short Story about Love". And more.

So it only makes sense - thematically - that Walter and Olivia's love for Peter would bring him back - even when they couldn't remember him. It's a continual cycle with the three of them, and THE major theme of the show.

ETA: Love was shown to have real world effects in 6b. Ok, if you have a problem with that, but really, it's not any LESS believable than telekinesis. If telekinesis existed, then everything we know about the physical world is wrong.

Edited by CorwinOfAmber, Mar 29, 2012 @ 9:22 AM.


#214

oconnellaboo

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 10:01 AM

Love is THE prime motivator on Fringe, for both good and evil actions, and their consequences. Love is what made Walter cross over to kidnap and cure Peter, and what made him (and Elizabeth) and keep him here. Love for Peter is what anchored Olivia while she was Over There and brainwashed. Love for Olivia was Peter's prime motivator to create the Bridge, and prevent her death.

I can go through countless examples of minor characters. The scientist in "White Tulip", who traveled through time to die with his beloved. The zombie ballerina in "Marionette" was a result of twisted love. Ray in "And Those We Leave Behind". Mr. Burns in "A Short Story about Love". And more.

So it only makes sense - thematically - that Walter and Olivia's love for Peter would bring him back - even when they couldn't remember him. It's a continual cycle with the three of them, and THE major theme of the show.

ETA: Love was shown to have real world effects in 6b. Ok, if you have a problem with that, but really, it's not any LESS believable than telekinesis. If telekinesis existed, then everything we know about the physical world is wrong.



All kinds of word. Love, on Fringe, isn't some Harlequin-romance, flowers and puppies thing. It's part of the fabric of the universe; it's organic and reactive. Call it quantum entanglement, call it love, but as you said, Corwin, it has been the primary motivator on Fringe since before Day One.

#215

sleepingwalker

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 10:16 AM

We all suspend LOTS of disbelief when watching something like Fringe. What make the show so worthwhile is that the characters and their interactions are great. The premise and the story lines are really quite goofy -- and that's fine.

What IS hard to take is when things reset to the degree that the mythology that we invest in gets busted. On a small scale that happens with continuity errors. Fringe has been great with continuity. When Eureka did a timeline reset and then kept it, they cost themselves quite a lot. When JJ reset the Star Trek timeline, I think he took a big chance that will probably fail. In the Star Trek case, its not clear that he felt that he much of a choice in the matter.

Pressing reset on the timeline on Fringe is particularly dangerous. We got lots of value out of knowing that Walter was this weird bottomless trove of oddball experiments and unethical past deeds that would come bubbling up and spice things up. But now history has changed and so has that trove. Also the Mr Spock / Sam Carter / Rodney Mckay character who can always pull a science thing out of the hat has shifted from Walter to Peter in this season. And Peter's history is intact. As I say, its all about the characters and their interactions and so far that remains a good as ever so I'm still in for the ride.

Edited by sleepingwalker, Mar 29, 2012 @ 10:28 AM.


#216

Sandman

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 10:53 AM

can go through countless examples of minor characters. The scientist in "White Tulip", who traveled through time to die with his beloved. The zombie ballerina in "Marionette" was a result of twisted love. Ray in "And Those We Leave Behind". Mr. Burns in "A Short Story about Love". And more.

So it only makes sense - thematically - that Walter and Olivia's love for Peter would bring him back - even when they couldn't remember him. It's a continual cycle with the three of them, and THE major theme of the show.

And now I'm wondering if we can make the kind of distinction that, say, a Buddhist might make, between unselfish love (that which seeks the happiness of others) and selfish love or "attachment" (that which seeks gratification of the self). I don't know that the episodes has been consistent enough in the "love gone wrong" theme to make the Buddhist distinction meaningful for the show, but the idea did occur to me.

#217

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 11:36 AM

I'm pretty okay with using love as an explanation for Peter surviving. We've been told time and again on this show how flexible reality is. It depends on people's beliefs and perceptions, and as Corwin said, emotions. That love can change reality isn't new to this show, it's just a big leap for this situation. But I feel like it works.

#218

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 12:26 PM

September's "love brought you back" explanation doesn't bother me, because I don't think I'm supposed to buy it as the real thing. He admitted he didn't know, he couldn't think of a scientific explanation, so he just offered a guess. The guy is a romantic, even if a very stoic one. The emotional quantum entanglement theory doesn't work for me, either, because the last time they showed such an example, it was between two people actively missing their spouses, which wasn't the case with Peter, seeing how Walter and Olivia had already forgotten him and were going on more or less happily with their lives.

If Olivia has already done her part as "failsafe", I think it played out in the S3 finale. She said she was afraid Peter was going to die in the machine. Fear + love = superpowers. She might have subconsciously prevented him from disappearing completely, but I don't think she and Walter had any part in bringing Peter back. That was Peter reaching out and Cameron did the rest to help him materialize.

If they wanted me to buy that Walter's and Olivia's love brought him back, they should have shown some kind of connection on their part, when he reappeared. I'm not saying love or anything like that, but something positive, even if it was reluctantly for the characters. However, the reactions were hatred, fear, hostility and eventually indifference. If this was intentional to make the P/O reunion sweeter, I'm afraid it didn't work for me. If it wasn't for DRJ and Meana, Peter would still be searching for a home and his "family" would still not give a damn about him. If they had showed amber Olivia eventually falling for Peter, I would have found September's hypothesis more convincing.

#219

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 12:50 PM

After thinking about it for a few days, I find myself more OK with the "love" resolution. Mostly because I realise my wish for a more (faux-)scientific explanation was never going to come true, partly because Fringe has always been about the relationships. I still dislike this season's pacing and I still feel the time we devoted to Amber Olivia was extremely disproportionate (we've spent more time on her than we have on Faux, who is an actual person who had an actual purpose in the actual plot of Fringe, coming into contact and having a relationship with Peter, messing up things for Olivia, having Peter's son etc etc). But still.

I'm also over Olivia's decision to replace her memories with Blue Olivia's. I still have a problem, not because she's a woman or because she's doing it for love, more because I can't see anyone so willingly erasing all their memories for any reason, with only mild hesitation assuaged by an anvillicious serial killer, but whatever.

Now my problem is the practicality of it all. Myself and others have said that it's problematic to have characters living in a world that doesn't correspond with their memories at all. If, like Olivia suspects, all her Amber memories are lost, there will not be a way to reconcile her "old" memories with this "new" world.

Peter now has the same perspective as the Observers have (who can see and participate in all possible timelines), and we the audience are being invited (through the human characters) to adopt this omniscient perspective as well.

I disagree with this; Peter has no idea what has happened in the Amber universe. He didn't live it, he can't look back on it like September can. If he did know somehow, then he would be able to help Olivia navigate through her existence in the Amber universe even with just her Blue memories, he'd be able to go "honey you're thinking of the Blue Universe, here in the Amber it happened like this", for instance. But he can't. And Walter may be regaining his Blue emotions if not his memories, but he won't be much help either.

Broyles, Astrid, Lincoln and Nina, on the other hand, don't remember the Blue timeline at all. So how will they interact with Olivia? What will she tell Broyles, "sorry boss but I'm a totally different person now, and I remember a totally different you, lol"? Including totally different cases in her FBI career? At least when Peter did it this season he had an excuse; he was new, heh. Olivia is not new to this universe, not physically, but she will be brand new once she gets her new (but in reality "old") memories. I'm curious to see how this is handled and I think something else will clear things up.

I also have to say I feel bad about losing the Olivia of this season, frankly. We stayed with Amber for 15 episodes, felt bad for her, saw the hole in her heart, and then, instead of something/someone filling that hole, we only got to see her turn on a switch and turn into a different version of herself, the only way she can be happy? That's really sad, in my opinion. Even if she was a Peterless, depressed Olivia that was never supposed to exist. But then I'm the sci-fi fan who always feels bad about people's, like, clones and doppelgangers who have terrible fates. I still remember the Enterprise episode (shut up) about Trip's clone and he only lasted 1 episode. Sigh. RIP Amber Olivia, you will be missed even though you were miserable. Hell, because you were miserable.

#220

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 2:40 PM

Love is THE prime motivator on Fringe, for both good and evil actions, and their consequences. Love is what made Walter cross over to kidnap and cure Peter, and what made him (and Elizabeth) and keep him here. Love for Peter is what anchored Olivia while she was Over There and brainwashed. Love for Olivia was Peter's prime motivator to create the Bridge, and prevent her death.

I can go through countless examples of minor characters. The scientist in "White Tulip", who traveled through time to die with his beloved. The zombie ballerina in "Marionette" was a result of twisted love. Ray in "And Those We Leave Behind". Mr. Burns in "A Short Story about Love". And more.


There's a big difference between motivation and consequence. Sure plenty of actions have been motivated by love, but pursuing that against the laws of the universe has hitherto always had profound consequences. Walter crossed over out of love and he took to two universes to the point of destruction because he did. He didn't just cause suffering to Walternate and Elizabeth; he caused countless numbers of people to die in the red universe as their universe started to die. In White Tulip Walter sets out the price he paid for acting as if love were everything: he's going to spend the rest of his life looking for forgiveness. He has painfully learned that it is not our place to adjust the universe, not for love or anything else. Now, unless this storyline is subverted, this episode suggests that the hitherto impersonal universe, not only caters to love, but its laws are love. For the moment anyway, it is a massive about turn.

#221

Trini Girl

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 11:14 PM

I'll start with something positive: I knew the teddy bear from the previous episode would be important; go me! I almost never catch those clues.

I waited so long to read and comment because I was pretty miffed with this episode. I couldn't even rewatch like I usually do.

The monster of the week was extra creepy and horrifying, and they didn't even explain much about his story, which they usually find time to do.

I suspected there would not be a satisfying resolution to the blue/amber universes issue, and I guess I was right about that too. (Yes, there are more episodes to come, but 15 episodes in, the writers have not inspired confidence.)

"Love" or entanglement or whatever explains Peter's re-appearance, but it doesn't explain much else. I was only tolerating the Amber-verse until we got back to Blue, but now it seems that won't happen. Apparently, the only important thing from there was Peter/Olivia. And while I was rooting for them, it's not the main reason I watched.

And I hate that AmberOlivia has to be "erased" for the storyline to work. The Observer was right, I guess; Olivia dies no matter what. It has soured the Peter/Olivia relationship for me.

You can wax metaphysical all you want, but you cannot change the fact that - outside of Peter and Olivia - 3 seasons' worth of character development and important events have been erased.

I truly hope there's another resolution for this, a combination of some kind. A fusion of memories, not a replacement. So I still believe (or, rather, hope) there's something more to this story.

This is similar to how I feel.
Anyway, I'm still here to see how the David Robert Jones arc plays out, and for Seth Gabel.

#222

Ageha

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

I was only tolerating the Amber-verse until we got back to Blue, but now it seems that won't happen. Apparently, the only important thing from there was Peter/Olivia.


Why is this assumption being made, that they're not going to address anything or anyone else? I agree to the extent that it's possible that it won't happen, but the season isn't over yet. The P/O relationship plays a major role in the series, so it makes sense to me that they would address it first, but we really haven't a clue as to what else they're going to say or explain on the matter. I've seen this come up a few times and it honestly confuses me.

#223

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Posted Mar 30, 2012 @ 1:08 AM

Why is this assumption being made, that they're not going to address anything or anyone else?

It's been 15 episodes. I'm skeptical.

... but we really haven't a clue as to what else they're going to say or explain on the matter.

Hey, that we agree on! No clue.

#224

flyingleap

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 3:43 PM

I'm enjoying how everyone in this thread, when y'all make up dialog for Olivia, always end it with, "lol".

#225

glimmertwin2

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 4:50 PM

Hi fellow Fringe fans, I am desperate! and it's killing me! Please help! I actually missed A Short Story About Love! I am panicking. I cannot find it on the web (hulu...no, Netflix!...no, and I don't trust the sources on YouTube). Does anyone know a safe site I can watch the episode? (tried OnDemand and it is expired, and I only have cable/internet).metfan

#226

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:15 PM

Other than buying on iTunes, I'm stumped, but when I've had to miss the show live (I'm a mom first, Fringe fan second!) I've always been able to see the key scenes of an episode on YouTube. Do a search for gillybabies and you'll catch the most critical stuff.

#227

Jodhaa

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:29 PM

Yes you can order it from Itunes for $2.99. Amazon probably has it too

Itunes